Posted by
purefit
15 yrs ago
I have interviewed quite a few helpers and just not been able to find the right person. I am most upset and wonder if I'll find the right person? Everytime I really like a helper something comes up that I don't want. I don't know what to do, I am most upset.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Give Evelyn a call - she can generally recommend a suitable helper
http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/helpers/
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1. It is hard.
2. You will never find the absolutely "perfect" candidate. No one is perfect. You might need to relax some of your requirements and focus on a person who seems to have a good attitude (hard working, takes initiative, thinks on her feet) and whom you seem to get along with.
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It's like a boyfriend or a girlfriend, there's always something about them that you'll not like.
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Well put punter! If I may extend the analogy you must accept the flaws that come with the good they bring to your life.
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I agree completely. Unfortunately, haven't found anyone that is trustworthy. I have had some really bad experiences and this time I am being careful. Oh why can't I find the right candidate:(
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sabis
15 yrs ago
could you pls write what kind of helper do u prefer? I have few friends looking for job so I whould like to help you and my friend too.
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are you a helper as well?
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Hi Purefit, I realise from your thread that you have had some big problem with helpers before, so just a suggestion, interveiw people who have completed more than 2 contracts with the same employer, especially if the employer has moved on and that is why maybe they cannot sign another contract, look for good references,
that way you will fulfill the honesty part of the person, because no employer would keep them for that long if they were't good. If you are worried about the age of future employee with regards to going clubbing or getting pregnant, then choose someone above the age of 40yrs, things less likely to happen.
When interveiwing prepare your own list of questions, with scenarios on what they might do in certain situations, if you have children ask them about safety questions.
Ask them about hygeine questions, so that you are satisfied with their own personal hygeine, and in preparing food etc.
Ask them about how flexible they could be, if your working hours vary, and if you needed them to work the occasional Sunday (swapping for another day of course)
If you have pets, see how the pets and prospective helper react together, pets will normally react well to a person who is really kind.
Good luck with finding the right one. Also try and get a list of previos employers
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Thank you, I am trying everything, no luck so far.
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Hi,
I don't agree with Susie1 as for the 2-contract security, I don't think it's a guarantee of reliability. After 4 years with the same employer some habits are taken and sometimes it can be difficult to have them changed (especially behaviours).
As for the recommendation letters, I know that a lot of people just give good recommendation as they don't want to get in trouble when the helper is about to leave them. It's a way to get peace.
I had a hard time finding my DH too. I went to a DH agency and started to interview so many of them, I couldn't tell any difference. Then I started to observe the other helpers who were interviewed and just by looking at them I could feel if they would correspond me or not.
I saw a DH who looked great (I mean behaving as I would expect) and I overheard some of her interview she was doing with a family. After that, I really wanted to interview her as I felt confortable with what I saw and overheard (the way she behaved and talked with them).
That's how I found my helper !
Also, it's true that noone will be perfect.
My helper has many qualities we really like but on the other hand, she has other sides that we are less fond of (tends to break things but she has improved a lot so we are satisfied with her globally).
You just need to prioritize your expectations.
One more point : I think it's very important to feel confortable with the person.
Good luck
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So true, itsmeinhk. I wish I would find the right person soon, who is all of the above:-)
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WWcC
15 yrs ago
I am now of the belief that it is totally impossible to find the right helper. It really is all to do with what you expect of them, the greater your expectations the less chance. I know some people say they are happy with their helper but its highly likely they are more relaxed about what they want done and give the helper all kinds of benefits etc.
I'm at the stage I really wish i didn't have to have a helper. I was brought up to take care of my house/family and therefore expect things to be done once and correct. I keep finding myself reminding my helpers to do the same thing over and over again. I've made great efforts and prepared very well for interviews, explained in detail what I wanted and what I'd expect, we pay more than minimum wage but no benefits unless they're earned (as I learned the hard way, the more you offer the more you get taken advantage of so no more!). My biggest problem was not the helper's work but their back answers and cheeky. I've been yelled at and even my children have been upset by the stomping and tempers. I've found out that they more you say the less they listen and the answer 'no, i never do that' when its clear that's what the DH just did is so frustrating.
What I find most annoying is that it costs 3000 hkd at least to get a helper so whilst people on this forum suggests 'to fire your DH' if they're not up to scratch, its not possible with the expense. Like every other job, i think there should be probation period and some refund for employers if these helpers are not satisfactory. Helpers have nothing to lose if they quit/fired, only employers.
A note on references. Many written references used are copied (with omissions from previous employer) or fake with copied signatures. How can you rely on these? I've even been told stories of working in Taiwan/Singapore/Dubai previously for x years with a family but this was never true. Its hard to know at interview what's right or wrong and then you employ the DH and have to bear the consequences.
One thing I know is that next time I choose a DH, it will be nepalese. I've got friends who have employed some and are so happy with them, more appreciative and willing to co-operate and learn and recommend these girls.
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"I am now of the belief that it is totally impossible to find the right helper. It really is all to do with what you expect of them, the greater your expectations the less chance. I know some people say they are happy with their helper but its highly likely they are more relaxed about what they want done and give the helper all kinds of benefits etc."
I don't agree at all. I know many helpers, including our own, who work extremely hard and have a great attitude. Their employers are very happy. We have high expectations and our helper consistently exceeds them. She thinks on her feet, takes initiative and works hard. Most of our friends have similar helpers. In my opinion this is because they LET THEM think for themselves and take initiative. These helpers are not micromanaged. They are allowed to do the job as they see fit withing parameters set by the employer. This does put more pressure on them to act responsibly and figure things out, but it tends to pay off.
As for "giving benefits", she deserves them. But we didn't do that until she hd proven herself.
"One thing I know is that next time I choose a DH, it will be nepalese. I've got friends who have employed some and are so happy with them, more appreciative and willing to co-operate and learn and recommend these girls."
And do you think there are no bad Nepalese helpers? Any nationality has good and bad representatives.
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Getting a right person as a helper is the same as getting the right person for a job and this is where a lot of people who have problems actually fail.
The first failure is in preparation. If you have no idea from the beginning of exactly what you expect and want done then you will not get the person you need. So think hard about it, make a list, look around you. What do you expect? What do you want the helper to do? Once you've made your rough list then write it up and print it out. It will serve as the basis for the FDH to perform his/her duties.
As I said this is a basis and if you find someone who ticks all the boxes they will know what you want done and will work to find the best and most efficient way to do that. Micromanagement causes issues as does control freakery. How you do a particular job may be very different to how other approach it.
There will always be issues with employees and sometimes it does not work out. This can be the fault of the employee, the employer or both. Preparation beforehand will go someway to avoiding this.
So far we've had 2 FDH, both Filipina. We were, from the start, very prepared and were unwilling to compromise on what we wanted as we knew the perfect fit. Our first was great, a little forgetful now and again but as we always wrote things down this was not an issue. The second was even better. The thing is we knew what we wanted, the FDH understood that and we made great choices. We let them make decisions and be themselves. That way they themselves have responsibility and let's be honest they are highly educated people.
I don't buy this nationality thing with helpers at all. Stereotyping like this ultimately leads to bitter disappointment.
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hi,
I agree so much with WWcC about the probation period. I find it really amazing that it doesn't exist. All risks are on the employers' side. I really wonder why Immigration doesn't try to legalize a one month probation period for example ??? It would be very helpful.
As for the nationalities, I think that because there are so many Philipinas it's easier for them to connect between themselves. Honestly at our playground I feel it's the Philipina connection ! They are so many and they just chat non stop in tagalog. So it's easier for weak helpers to get impressed by others, to listen to "good"advices for example...
Other nationalities aren't so numerous and thus can't get overexposed to gossips.
But as other people mentioned before, we cannot stereotype their behaviour. It's more a question of number and promiscuity.
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I back the idea for a probation period as well. To me all of them look pretty much the same and I think having them with me even for a week if not a month would give somewhat of an idea. I have contacted agencies but the candidates don't match my requirements, I think they just send whoever is there.
I don't agree about the nationality bit. I have seen Nepalese and other helpers from a diff background than phili and they are not necessarily better. Can't generalise about them.
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The problem with probation periods is that it opens other cans of worms. Who pays for the helper to leave if they do not turn out to be the right person? Who is responsible for the agency fee's the helper has paid, which in some cases is several times the amount an employer would pay. To say all the risks are on the employers side is a bit naive, very few helpers get away with paying nothing to be here. If it all goes wrong they end up hugely indebted. They also have no guarantee they will have a decent employer either. So risks are on both sides and are, if weighed up, are more in the favour of the employer.
Actually there are pretty much the same amount of Indonesian helpers here as there are Filipino/a. And of course they all congregate - as do many expats! Let's not forget Wanchai and LKF! The same could be said of these places....
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First of all to evildeeds. It is so refreshing to read about an employer who "gets it". Not only do you approach the issue in the correct manner, you are rewarded with a good experience when employing a helper. Respect!
It boggles the mind how many people think that micromanagement and treating helpers like dirt is the way to ensure that they don't "misbehave".
***
Formal probation is all well and good, but since it's very easy to terminate a helper what's the point? Sure, it'll cost the employer a few thousand to get a new helper. It may have cost the helper 10 or 20k just to get listed as a candidate. Contrast with the relative salaries and it's easy to see the helper has the short straw.
***
"To say all the risks are on the employers side is a bit naive, very few helpers get away with paying nothing to be here. "
Quite. Employers are very much in a better position than helpers.
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Wouldn't it be nice if some volunteers or organizations set up some workshops for both employers and helpers, especially for first time employers and first time helpers in Hong Kong? Topics can include how to communicate successfully with your helper / employer. What to expect. What are the common problems and how to deal. How to train your helper. How to manage your helper....If the volunteers / organizations are both experienced employer and helper, then it will be good.
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I believe the YMCA or YWCA have classes on employing helpers.
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WWcC
15 yrs ago
I dont think the need for workshops is the problem. As 'itsmeinhk' mentions overexposed to gossip creates potentially good DH to feel they're missing something and often become troublesome.
Evildeeds, i'm not sure how you work out that DH loses out financially if there was a probationary period.
Firstly, who pays a person who arrives in HK with no family, finds a job and later is told not competent enough for his/her job and loses it. Nobody! They need to look around for another one or leave, same would apply for a DH.
Secondly, you mention 'who would reimburse agency fees paid by a helper'! What agency fees?? I've never ever had any of my DH pay a cent towards their trip to HK. I pay everything on this side, they may pay for a training course if new to HK but I reimburse that on arrival, otherwise the agency i use does not charge my helpers anything.
Thirdly, every employee, regardless of what job you take up, has no guarantee that they have a 'decent' employer. Perhaps you don't work or just naive.
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"Evildeeds, i'm not sure how you work out that DH loses out financially if there was a probationary period."
Because after being laid off from their probationary period, they have to spend unpaid time looking for a new job. Also some agencies may well charge them again for finding their next employer.
"the agency i use does not charge my helpers anything. "
That's good, but many (most?) agencies do.
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"Firstly, who pays a person who arrives in HK with no family, finds a job and later is told not competent enough for his/her job and loses it."
Apples and oranges. It's usually only youngsters who come here on tourist visa's and look for a job. Most other people are hugely compensated for their trouble and if they lose their jobs they are able to remain in HK until their visa expires to look for other employment, FDH have 14 days.
"who would reimburse agency fees paid by a helper'! What agency fees?? I've never ever had any of my DH pay a cent towards their trip to HK. I pay everything on this side, they may pay for a training course if new to HK but I reimburse that on arrival, otherwise the agency i use does not charge my helpers anything.
Then you have very little understanding of how this works in the Philippines. The majority of helpers have "paid" to be FDH back home before you even see them. There are some agencies which claim they do not charge helpers, I actually only know one. For Indonesian all maids pay and the fee's are huge. You are of course aware that some maids would need to give 6 months full salary to pay this off.
"Thirdly, every employee, regardless of what job you take up, has no guarantee that they have a 'decent' employer. Perhaps you don't work or just naive."
A personal jab - uncalled for as we had no argument but if you really want to compare CV's......!
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The majority of Indonesians see nothing of their first 7 months' salary, even if (a very big IF) they are paid the minimum wage. Agencies frequently charge HK$20,000 just to get the helper that first job. A picky employer who changes helpers on a whim are comndemning these ladies to a very difficult life. They have 2 weeks to get a new job, and if not, back home. Then what?
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I still have had no luck with the right helper. Whoever I want has to exit HK and I don't want to wait or else they are not available right away or I am skpetical about hiring them. I don't know whats going on! And I do have a few priorities, didnt know even those wouldn't be met.
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