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ORIGINAL POST
Posted by helpmeplease 14 yrs ago
i need advice on this, i'm a helper and my boss is trying to get me a visa to the u.s because they are both gonna work there and a vacation as well. with what i understood they are bringing me with them because they need me to work for them coz they have a child whom i'm gonna look after while they are at work. but this is what the arrangement is-i would sign the u.s contract but actually they wouldn't want to follow what is stated in the contract which is paying me hourly and overtime. they said they'll pay me my usual hk salary and i'm gonna work the normal time dh usually work in hk-which is whenever my employers need me.

they said that bringing me to the u.s and taking me some places would compensate to the pay i'm gonna receive to the u.s. i heard that mot helpers are getting higher pay when than here in hk when they work in the u.s because of hourly rate and overtime..so i'm asking employers out there how they would deal with such..thanks!

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COMMENTS
axptguy38 14 yrs ago
As I see it what they are asking is not fair as seemingly they will not be paying you the legal wage. The line about "taking you places to compensate" is just a poor excuse.


US workplace should mean US salary and hours.


Unless you have some burning desire to get to the US, I would walk away from this "deal"


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FIFIB 14 yrs ago
Well, I see your point and if you don't have any desire to go to USA then just tell them how you feel regarding the salary.


You and the child can stay here in HK while your employer is on biz trip.


It is not really realistic to bring a helper on holidays and only have her working 8 hrs a day with the meal break and porportional holidays etc. If they were taking you to Thailand you would do aboout the same work as in USA but would be getting HK salary if I am not wrong.


I never bring my helper with me for the exact reason that I do not want to pay USA wages and don't want her to feel abussed.


But on a personal opinion, I love going on holidays to USA and when I was single I went twice with family friends to help babysitting, I didn't get paid but went along to all the entertainment so I was always happy to do that.


Most probably you could not get a USA visa if you were to apply directly, even if your employer does on your behalf it is not sure you can get one, so maybe you don't have any decision to make.

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axptguy38 14 yrs ago
helpmeplease, could you please clarify one thing? I got the impression your employer is moving to the US. FIFIB has the impression that this is just a trip. Which is it?


If they want you to move there you should hold out for US salary and conditions. However in the case of a trip of only a few weeks, I would be more flexible.

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FIFIB 14 yrs ago
Hi Axptguy38,


I think they are combining biz trip and holidays.


In my case I was always offering to babysit or whatever, as a teenager Disneyland was always enough pay for me.


Helpmeplease: would you be staying in a hotel or at a relatives place?


When I go we stay with my inlaws so I do the cooking and laundry but it is not as difficult as here in HK because all the electric appliances such as separate washing machine and drying machine, dish washer, and of course I don't have to clean the house only do the beds etc.


I think you are better off telling them your position now, so they don't have to go through the whole visa process plus they will have more time to find a solution.

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dansande 14 yrs ago
If your employer doesn't want to pay you US wages then she shouldn't take you top the USA; it really is that simple. To do otherwise is not only unfair but also illegal. In any case, it is probably a moot point since the B-1 visa is only granted in exceptional circumstances. Firstly, you will have to demonstrate 'strong ties' to your home country. Secondly, even when you do show strong ties, USCIS reasons that you are nonetheless willing to stay in the US permanently by analogy to the circumstance that you have left your home country to work in HK. You can find all this information at Read More

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Philly Cheese 14 yrs ago
I'm with axptguy - if on asimple business trip and you are accompanying as a helper then I don't see how US wage scale even applies. When I go on a busiess trip I am paid HK wages and not those in the country that I am visiting.


However, if this is a permanent arrangement then you will need more than a contract, you will also need green card etc and be paid accordingly to local standards.


If it were temporary trip I do not see the need for any contract.


This is tough - if you knowingly sign a contract and have side agreement they could prosecute you for filing misleading information and deport you. I think you have to sit down with your employer and discuss in more detail - let them know that you are uncomfortable with the contract.

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Fenix2 14 yrs ago
I think the original poster is trying to be too smart and greedy as it is just a business trip and not permanent.


I would not refuse to go to the US based on the salary you get. You are going to get to see lots of things. You are going to get a a US customs chop on your passport in case you ever want to go there again...


Now if you have a valid reason for not leaving Asia, or you don't want to go through the paws of the TSA, you don't want to be too far from your home country in case you need to fly back in an emergency.... I would tell them so.


I think you are being greedy and clever and if i was your employers and you tried to negotiate with me, I would leave you in HK so you miss out seeing the states and you grasp where greed takes you., I would hire a maid there.


OP's kind of behavior I've seen amongst the Philippino people I've employed (IT industry), where if there is a benefit/bonus or something special to be gained they can smell some gravy they get super greedy demanded more often causing for the whole thing be canceled or the business deal to fail.


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Susie1 14 yrs ago
It would be nice if the OP would clarify if this is a permanent move to US, or just a short work related stay with a holiday attached for her employers. If it is just a holiday/work visit then there is no problem, lots of dhs go on holiday with employers to look after the children.

If it is a more permanent move and the employers are trying to dodge paying the US rates for the helper, then this is wrong, plus the helper would be miles away from home.

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helpmeplease 14 yrs ago
hello there everybody!


thanks so much for your inputs.


just to answer all your queries. it's not a permanent move, it's work plus holiday trip which is more than a month. desire to go to the u.s? , i guess everybody desires to travel, for me i wanted to see places i haven't seen, but my only wish is to get paid for the hours i worked since it is the law in the u.s. and it is requirement from the consulate to have another contract.

another question is that where we would stay? we would stay in their own house.


Fenix2- i will respect your opinion regarding that, but please don't generalized filipinos, i also think that there's one moment in your life that you were guilty of being greedy.


thanks so much cara for those nice words, i appreciate it.


are there anyone , or you know someone who did paid their helpers u.s wage while they were in the u.s? is it heavy on the pocket...?






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lagrue 14 yrs ago
I would say that even if you were to be paid according to US hourly rate, overtime ect you won't nearly be receiving what you expect. Having moved from a country where you were paid an hourly wage to HK where you receive a monthly salary, when you get paid an hourly rate, the working hours are shorter but you are expected to do a hell of a lot more during these paid hours, meaning that if you go this route your working hours will probably be reduced AND during the hours in which you are 'on' you will be expected to really be working hard and quickly, with no resting during the day. Any meal periods you take, morning tea, afternoon tea and lunch will be unpaid also.


I agree with the other posters that you need to think carefully before going into negotiations with your employers IF you want to keep working for them when you come back. If your employers are generous people anyway, then its better if you keep the status quo, you're likely to get perks which more than make up for the extra you would be paid. If your employers are not generous and you wish to continue working for them, it's probably preferable to try and remain in HK and avoid the whole thing altogether. Being too calculative with your employers will lead to loss of good will between the two parties, and a further thought, they may start to become more calculative with you i.e. charging you for any food you consume, transportation costs, charging you for accommodation on your day off ect. Just something to think about.

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Philly Cheese 14 yrs ago
I don't get why a US contract is needed if you are just going there to take care of their kid on vacation and not permanent. They should just apply for a visitor's visa for you.


Although your tone is nice and innocent I also find your request greedy. So if the family went to the Philippines for a month and brought you along to take care of their kid, should they pay you Philippines wages? If my helper asked for more I would not like that very much and it may leave a bad taste. I would not ask her to sign a contract that is obviously false and try to get her in legitimately.


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dansande 14 yrs ago
The reason she needs a contract is that it is ILLEGAL to work in the United States on a visitor's visa. How many countries do you know of that allow this?

The people who are accusing the OP of greed are predictably hypocritical. After all, it is the employer who is attempting to break the law because she is too greedy to pay the legally required wage.

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hkwatcher 14 yrs ago
Since I am from the USA I can say that practically no DH/employee will have housing and food provided as well as transportation inside the USA from the employer.

I believe the arifare should be totally on the employer.

Therefore after these things are taken into consideration, you will probably be clearing close to the same about of money you make now BUT here is the question...

A normal work week in the USA is 40 hours and anything over that is payable at about 1.5 per hour. So you need to negotiate with your employer to have an understanding of all that you will be responsible for and NOT responsible for.

Another problem is that if you get sick, it is SUPER expensive to see a Dr. and even to buy medicine. Who is responsible for that? Ask these questions and make an informed decision, but balance this all out with the "adventure" part of your personality. This might be a trip that will be something you will remember forever.

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hkwatcher 14 yrs ago
I forgot one more thing... The current minimum wage in the USA equals about HK$60-64 per hour. The current wage for part time local helpers in HK!

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bbrave 14 yrs ago
Hallelujah dansande! I couldn't have said it better.


The OP's post is a bit ambiguous but I'm pretty sure it's the employer wants her to sign a false contract to satisfy the US Immigration and not the other way around.


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Tropics 14 yrs ago
America wd be a fab experience and a good opportunity to meet a partner (if you are looking).


However it is an expensive place to live and generally you need a car. If u want to go, find out where you're living and negotiate for a higher salary or you'll be home bound with no cash and no friends which will be no fun.


Also find out whether a US visa allows you to leave your employer and work for someone else - that wd be valuable to you...

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FIFIB 14 yrs ago
Tropics,


You are totally off the mark and giving wrong ideas.


No she cannot leave the employer and work for someone else

If she decides to make a run once she is there then she will be illigally with all the consequences that comes with it


Helpmeplease:

I think you are not thinking carefully and you have a limited vision. Is your employer generous with you? Think about the future with them.


Have they given you more paid holidays than you are entitled? or you only get the required by law? If you insist on marching as per the law the forget about future favors from them, they could tell you very well that as per the law they are not oblidge to make any favors to you (e.g. swapping holidays, taking general public holidays in addition to the statutory etc, sudden trip to the Phillipines and borrow money from them etc)


Also it would not hurt you to get a USA visa for the future you never now.


If you are only thinking about the immediate money you can get from your employer well, life is more than that.


Also maybe they would be giving you couple hundred dollars extras while you are there. If you insist on getting paid according to the contract then for sure they are going to make you work the hours means cleaning, cooking, babysitting, etc etc

no restaurants, no entertainment and from your salary you would have to pay your own meals.


How long have you been working for them? I think you have to be at least on your second contract with them to be able to apply for a working visa.


If you have only been few months or close to finish your contract you can forget about it, you won't be granted a visa.



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321 14 yrs ago
The point I am missing is the whole idea of signing a contract is a mutual and binding agreement? So if you sign a contract with them you both are obliged to stick to it.


Since the contract is clearly just for immigration purposes they are asking you to break the law.


I'm pretty sure what I would choose for.

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bbrave 14 yrs ago
321: Bingo. That's exactly what the employer is 'asking' the OP to do.

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retscir 14 yrs ago
A point to bear in mind. I'm not familiar with US Tax requirements if you're on a work visa as a domestic helper. Presumably if you declare to the US govt that you're working in the US and on a contract that conforms to US labour requirements then you must have to pay US taxes too. I'm also guessing that they are higher than HK. So, if that is the case, maybe the gains from being paid your US wage rates are eaten up by the additional taxes that you may have to pay anyway.

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Invert22 14 yrs ago
I agree that there are certain types of visas granted to tourists entering the US. I myself require a visa to get into the US. I am not a maid, hence I do not need my employer to help me obtain a visa into the US, although I have asked the HR of my company to provide me with a employment certificate just in case the consul requested for it when I last applied for a visa. That being said, when my company asks me to go to the US (or other countries for that matter) for work-related reasons, I do not ask them to pay me in US standards (which I think would offset any additional expenses, taxes etc anyway). In this case the employer provides for housing and expenses (in the OP's case transport, food and accommodation provided by the employer too).


I agree that the "contract" is being drawn for purposes of enabling the DH to obtain a visa. However, if the DH refuses to sign the "contract", she will not be able to travel with her employers to the US and perhaps will result in the employers not needing her services anymore. In the end I think it will be up to the DH to see what her options are - sign it and continue to do her job in the US for a month or don't sign it and find a job elsewhere.

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adele78 14 yrs ago
Look at how many helpers are 'on contract' to an individual here in HK yet have an agreement that they work 3 days per week for a reduced salary and are free to work freelance for the rest of the time. I know a household with 3 DH's (2 women and a man) yet only one of them actually works full time and none of them live on the employer's property. Yes, it's illegal but if everyone is happy with it and everyone keeps their mouth shut, noone needs to get in trouble and that's the reality of it.


I needed my helper to work on the statutory holiday at the beginning of last month as my husband was away and I had to work all day. I asked her which day she wanted off instead. She said she didn't need a day off as she was already well rested after having the sunday off even after I insisted, so I gave her an extra $200 in her pay and everyone was happy. Legal? No. Solution that everyone can be happy with? Yes!

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Philly Cheese 14 yrs ago
Adele, I hope your helper realizes what an understanding employer you are.

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GemmaW 14 yrs ago
Adele, I tried to ask mine if she could help during last month's statutory holiday. I said I'd give her another day off. She said no. I said I'd pay her (wouldn't mind if it was only $200), she said no. So off she went. The only agreement was that she'd come home two hours earlier at 7pm and these hours will accumulate to give her "extra" time off in future when she CHOOSES to go on holiday.


If you sign a contract, that you must abide by the contract you have signed. Just tell your employer that you are scared of breaking the law and you'd rather have proof that you are being paid accordingly.


However, I don't even know why you need to sign a US contract if you are just going there for a little over a month? If I were a helper, I think I wouldn't mind going there and being paid in HK dollars. Consider this... they pay for your airfare. If you had to pay it yourself, you'll have to save 3 months for it. Then consider food, accomodation etc. They are not obliged to pay you these if you are being paid by the hour there. For you to rent a place for a month, it is VERY costly. Even if you find one, the travel from the cheap accomodation to your employer's place isn't going to be cheap. Plus, they will no doubt take you to visit places. If you were to go on your own, it would be costly. And your food will be taken care of. If you had to pay, this cost will add up also.

You'll be doing the exact same job as you would if you were in HK. So I'd say, why not just get paid in HKD and not demand all these "extras"?

Do your sum first and see which trade off is better. I can imagine just how costly if I had to pay everything myself.


If both of you cannot come to an agreement, maybe you could refuse and then stay in HK?


I agree with beancurd, that the majority of helpers would be happy to be paid in HK dollars but get a free ticket + accomodation + trips + food in the US. Heck, I'd go, then spend a month's salary shopping instead of planning the cheapest accomodation etc that I can get there ;-)



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bbrave 14 yrs ago
As I understand the OP, the employer is going for work and vacation and he/she wants the OP to accompany the family as a helper not as a fellow vacationer.


The OP probably can't enter the US without a visa.

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Philly Cheese 14 yrs ago
Like most expats, I have a lot of vacation days per year. So when I am off somewhere for an extended amount of time, the helper is allowed to go back to the Philippines or stay in HK while we are away. Obviously she is not working while we are off and just more of less house sitting if she decides to stay in HK. Thus I think I am being more than fair to her when I ask her to work the odd stat holiday in exchange for another day off (this in addition to days off when we are not here). It would be seriously disappointing if she refuses - so much so that I would think long and hard about renewing her contract when due or at CNY when I go around to giving her a bonus. Of course I would give her plenty of notice when I want her to work a stat holiday, and not drop it on her at the last minute.


If I were a helper, I'd go with the employer to the US, get paid normal pay and not demand extras. Add stress to an employer and start being too demanding, means you'll be out looking for new employer pretty soon.

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mayo 14 yrs ago
If you were an employee other than an fdh and your employer asked you to sign a false contract or later fired you for not signing said contract you would have good case to sue your employer, however the sad truth you are an fdh and the system of cheap domestic help that so many people tout as one of the positives of living in hong kong isn't fair. Your employers wouldn't ask you to sign a false contract if as people are saying you wouldn't earn as much on a US wage. Your employers also know you somewhat are at their mercy, if you don't sign they may not resign your contract. So I would weigh costs of losing your present contract before you make your decision. It's unfair but good luck to you.

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mike204 14 yrs ago
If you were brought by your employers to the US to work for them for a month, even if you were paid US wages, they would still have to provide you with food and accommodation. Your employers would be your sponsor and they have to ensure that you would have food to eat and a place to stay and that you would not do a runner and stay in the US illegally.



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Philly Cheese 14 yrs ago
Look, life's not fair. We can all stand on our moral high horses all day long and debate. But for a normal DH, putting food on the table is priority number 1.

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mike204 14 yrs ago
Your employer is very greedy. Read More

* The employer will be the only provider of employment for the employee.

* The employer will provide free room and board and round-trip airfare.

* The employee will receive the prevailing wage for an eight hour day as well as any other benefits normally required for U.S. domestic workers in the area of employment. The contract must specify the exact wage rate to be paid to the employee. Further information on prevailing wages is available below.

* The employer will give at least two weeks notice of intent to terminate employment and the employee will give not more than two weeks notice of intent to leave employment.

* Overtime pay (time and a half) is calculated for work hours exceeding eight in a day or 40 in a week.


Since you are a foreign domestic helper in the US, your employer will be responsible for providing food and accommodation for you. And, it is certainly not true that you would be earning the same as your wages in hk. If your employer asks that you work the same hours as you do in hk, you would be owed at the very least US$100/ day

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jaysonmcjayson 14 yrs ago
TO helpmeplease,


If they are a good employer (like considerate, kind & open minded) talk to them and let them know what you think. Ask those direct questions, COMMUNICATION is the key to success of solving problems or uncertainty. But when you talk to them show them your real intention that you are not being greedy that you are just protecting your rights. Actually, mas maganda kung kausapin mo sila ng diretso para alam nila kung ano ang nasa isip mo of course kung ako ang nasa posisyon mo di ako tatangi kasi trabaho yun, just like any other profession if my boss will asked me to travel business to China for two weeks I cant really say NO kasi trabaho ko yun.


At saka it’s a good experience for you, not all OFW have the chance to see USA like you. Think positive! Think that this is another adventure.


TO Fenix2,


It only shows how narrow your mind is. Watch your mouth when you’re talking! You have to think that the reason most of the Filipinos are here working, is for their/our family and improve their/our lives. We don’t come here and think how we can squeeze money out of our employers. We have pride and dignity like you!!!


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harrypatcher 14 yrs ago
helpmeplease don't make a issue of this...u want to go u go , u don't want to go u don't..it seems ur post is to gather sympthy like most of the DH. AS u r not doing ur emplyer a favor in gng to USA and vice versa...or best go back to manila and see what "hrly" rates u get "UNDER THE LAW"???

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Invert22 14 yrs ago
I wonder whether the trip to the US will result in additional/heavier workload than what the OP already has currently in HK. It seems to me that she is less concerne of the legal ramifications of the contract (will she be breaking the law, etc) but rather, whether she should get paid more as what the contract says. I will give the OP the benefit of the doubt and say that perhaps she hasn't travelled (that required a visa) with her employers before, but if she doesn't want to be labelled "greedy" and "opportunistic" then she should just find out first what the impact would be if she does or doesn't sign the contract.


If you go down the path of "protecting your rights" it may sound that you are indeed after the money. Instead, why don't you find out and not make sure that you are not personally violating any laws that would have you denied entry, deported, blacklisted or land you in jail. Don't focus on the money or what they could potentially owe you in the US.


As harrypatcher says, its a non-issue. If you don't want to sign the contract, resign and let them find someone else who is willing to do their job, and enjoy the perks of having such employers. If you do want to go, then go - for the experience, do your job and at the same time try to have fun.

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dansande 14 yrs ago
Heaven forbid a helper look out for her own self-interests by trying to secure better wages! You people keep trying to intimidate the OP with the ridiculous chimera of being dismissed by this 'generous' employer who is too cheap to sign the legally required contract. It's not like there is only one employer in HK, you know. Anyway, it is really a moot point. If anyone actually bothers to check the relevant link that has been posted-more than once-he or she will find that the applicable visa is only granted in exceptional cases.

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axptguy38 14 yrs ago
Hear hear dansande!

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mike204 14 yrs ago
to those that think the helper is greedy....


a) would you agree to be relocated for an indefinite period of time with the same renumeration no additional allowance even if the cost of living in that strange new place would be more expensive>? What are you, martyrs?


b) would you not want to get what you are entitled to? would you not want the pay that you deserve or what the law dictates you get,and fight for it?


c) when you are working, isn't it because you are :"after the money"? who isn't?


d) would you be willing to break the law for your boss just so you can travel?





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Invert22 14 yrs ago
1. Will the OP be left to fend for herself - find her own accomodation, food, transport, etc? Will she have to pay for her own ticket to get to the US?


2. Will she have to work additional hours, clean a bigger place, look after more people once she gets to the US?


Her original post was not about whether she was breaking the laws, it was whether she can get more money. And in this case her boss has probably made it clear that she wasn't getting any more than what she's already being paid.



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mike204 14 yrs ago
OP was asking if it was fair that she be paid the same rate she was getting in hk while in the US working the same hours she works in hk. Anyone in their right mind would see that it is not fair that she be paid the same rate.


It is the employers obligation to provide food and accomodation and airfare. Different country, different laws. If someone wants a maid in the US, they should pay the minimum wage for domestic helpers, and if they can't afford it then they shouldn't have a maid. It's that simple.



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mike204 14 yrs ago
Just a thought...


Employers in hk hiring indonesians/sri lankans and paying helpers less than the minimum wage are probably thinking the same thing "you get free air fare, get to travel to hk from your country, free food and accomodation so don't need to pay the legally required wages and helper should only be grateful for this opportunity"

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HKGShe 14 yrs ago
@ Philly, you made me laugh. For all of us the #1 priority is putting food on the table. We too (not just domestics) move to other parts of the planet for employment.


@ Mike204 you are so right.


@ helpmeplease Read the links provided, print the information if you can & tell your employer you are afraid of doing anything illegal. If they are American they are aware of how the US government does not take kindly to "bending" labor laws. The US is very concerned about persons who run...because many do. What will you do if on your return to HK you are asked for proof of payment or they are? Most US citizens cannot afford full time live in help in the US. Also if you falsify this document it goes on your record. You need your good record/reputation to stay in HK or go to another country. I do not think they would let you go for this reason. There are people they can hire in the US if they need help.



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housed 14 yrs ago
Of course DHs - like any other employee - should always look out and protect their own interests. But I believe the best DH-employer relationships are the ones where both side are flexible and mutually accommodative.


A couple of weeks ago, my helper told me on Sat that her father-in-law passed away and she wanted to go home for the funeral, I agreed immediately (so she could shop for a ticket on her day off) even though I hadn't cleared it with my own employer yet. (I work part-time so it's more flexible.) I was able to clear my schedule so she could go home for six days and then the night before she left (literally at 11 pm) she asked for a loan. My husband ended up going to the ATM at midnight as she was leaving the next morning at 5 am! Is that part of our contractual obligation to her? Absolutely not! Is it something employers of DH will do? Certainly! (Maybe not all, but there are many before me who have accommodated DH funeral requests before.)


All I'm saying (and what others have said above) is that it depends on the poster's relationship with her employer. If it's a mutally respectful one where there's give-and-take on both sides, then maybe it may not be worth insisting on your rights (to the very letter of the law) every single time, especially when in other situations, you may be asking for "extras" from your employer. On the other hand, if you feel insecure about the working relationship, and/or exploited by your employer, then by all means stick to the law for protection.


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housed 14 yrs ago
@kit930 i know where you're coming from but actually she's already back with us. :-))

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adele78 14 yrs ago
Harrypatcher, good point! To the OP, if your employers took a 2 week holiday in the Phils and wanted to pay you 25% of your contractual HK salary, you would not be too pleased!


My advice would be to take it as an interesting experience that you may not get a chance to try again. If you are accommodating to your employers, you might find them being so happy with you that you get some bonus spending money which would be nice. If we were to take our helper to Denmark with us in 2 weeks and follow the letter of the law, we'd have to pay her about 800hkd per day as well as her airfare, accommodation and food! Thank goodness we 'need' her to stay home and look after the cats!


Philly Cheese, I think we have a great understanding with our helper. She's a lovely, no-fuss employee and we try to be the same to her!

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