Posted by
byechicago
16 yrs ago
Our helper has been with us for a year and 6 months. We get along well with her and she is great with the kids. The last 2 months I have been bothered by some of the things she's done. One day I was rushing out and I asked if I could borrow her cell phone (I gave her a phone and pay for her minutes). I was getting a phone call and had forgotten how to operate when all of a sudden it pops up to her messages. She had some pretty racy conversations with at least 2 men and also had pictures of her topless. She was planning to meet one and the others I imagine are in Hong Kong. I understand how lonely it gets and frankly my husband and I felt it was none of our business what she does with her personal life and free time. The second incident, she used my computer while I was away without asking and only proceeded to tell the truth when confronted. I have private things on my computer, and I actually would not mind if she used it if she had just asked. The third incident happened today, she told me that she had signed up for English tutorial classes and it would be from 8:30-10:30 PM every other Saturday. The class cost $2700 for 3 months and she said that since the class ends late that she would stay at her friends house and not come back until 9:30 on Sunday night. The first 2 incidents we worked out, but still can't help it coming up when she wants to spend Saturday nights out or taking classes. (I am thinking that this is just a cover). It has become a trust issue. She did not even consult with us before she signed up for the class. Saturday nights are my time to spend with my husband. I told her today that she can take the classes, but it has to be on Sunday (it is available on Sunday as well) and she has to come home when it is finished. I feel that she is my responsibility and if something happens to her...I am obviously responsible. Also, I do feel that this is a cover for something, because why insist on spending the night out at a friend's house when she can easily come home, she has her own room and bathroom and has ample privacy. $2700 is also a steep price for English tutorial classes when she speaks english fairly well and I imagine that $2700 is quite a bit of money to spend since she is supporting her family back home. What should I do? Should I talk to her? She is really good with the kids but I am afraid that if I start restricting her that things will start changing. Has anyone experienced this?
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I think the point is whether or not you need her on Saturday nights. I do not mind if my helper goes out on Saturday nights and returns Monday morning as long as we are not going out and need her to babysit. If you have children she is being very presumptious booking a Saturday night course if there is any chance she will be required to babysit.
I once interviewed a helper who said she wanted every Sat night off - so we didn't hire her as she is working for our convenience not her social life.
Whether the course is expensive or not is not really an issue if she is paying for it herself. The story does sound suspicious, especially given what you saw on her phone but really you can't control what she does on her time off. Ultimately she is not a part of your family so you have to distance yourself from her behaviour. I have no idea what my helper does on her day off and really have no need to know. Insurance is in place to cover any accident.
Regarding the computer - I would be very annoyed about that. However we specifically put a password on our computer so no one except my husband and I can use it.
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cd
16 yrs ago
Our old helper used to stay out any saturday night that me and my husband wasn't going out, so I wouldn't have a problem with that, in fact he stayed out sun night as well, coming back at 6.30 mon morning. However I would have a problem with the fact that she has just assumed she can take every other sat night off, without talking to you first. It will restrict your social life with your husband, you will probably find you have to turn down social invitations as they clash with her 'evening class'. If it is really English classes, check and see if there is one thats run on a weekday evening that is more suitable to your family life and insist that she comes home afterwards. But you could still let her have an occassional sat night to stay at her friends.
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Our helper goes on a Saturday afternoon most weekends, unless we ask her to stay in. I quite like our personal family time and we really don't need the help when we are both home.
It does however, sound a bit dodgy. Why would a helper, who has come to HK to make money, spend that amount on an English class when she can speak fluent English. If it does not suit you, then I would say to her that she can't do it. If her contract originally stated that she work a Saturday, then she has broken it. If you don't feel comfortable saying that, then do a sly and ask her for the details, "for emergency contact" in case you can't get through on the mobile. You will know if she is lying straight away about it. Ask heaps of questions on it, where is it, what company. If she can't come up with anything, well there is your answer.
As for the text messages, well, you can't do much about that, it's her private life and it has nothing to do with you.
But the computer, I would crack it! We have a password activation on ours and as hat trick said, only my husband and I have the password. That is way out of line, she can find out everything about you that way. I would give her a warning on that one.
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re: tutorial classes. ask her the whereabouts of the tutorial center, and the name of the center. then call that center up and verify her registration and the time schedules.
if the classes start at 8, then it would mean how much travel time to the centre? are you living in the new territories that it would take 2 hours to commute hence her wanting to stay with a friend?
as you mentioned, you could ask her to switch schedules to her day off else her day off is a saturday but she has to be back in the home saturday night like her usual day off
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Thank you all for your response. I offered her Sunday or any other day on the weekday, but no spending the night. I live in Pokfulam and we have a free shuttle service to Central and back, it makes it a 15-30 minute trip on the shuttle depending on traffic. At first she hesitated saying that I did not act too positively and that she will not do the class. I told her that it was not her doing the class, I am all for her bettering herself, the reason I was a upset was she did not consult and consider that on Saturdays, my husband and I usually have plans. I told her we hired her so that we would not have to think twice if we go out. The reason I say no spending the night is that I have 2 very young kids, 4 and 1 and she comes in very close contact with them. I have asked her for more info, she gives me a flyer with no phone number, I look up the name of the centre...it's not coming up online. I ask her for the phone number, she says that she doesn't have it, but her friend does. I ask her to get the number from her friend and as of yet no response. I feel like I am trying to catch her in a lie...and I dislike playing detective. That said, I find it very hard to find someone reliable and that I can trust with my kids, I am really beginning to doubt her.
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Wiz Bang: pmd you back, thanks
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it's not in the yello pages too...
in my opinion, this is not a matter of bettering herself or what but she should have consulted with you first as it has some conflict with her work hours
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I agree with you, and time and time again it just seems completely foreign to her, and I believe this may be due to cultural differences. I've asked her if there are any hard feelings or anything like that, and she says, "no", but the last time we had a discussion she was holding a grudge against my husband whom she thought was accusing her of stealing, which by the way came out 1 year and 4 months later when I overheard her talking to her friend on the phone (I speak Filipino, but did not let her know).
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You must give her time off (a contiuous period of 24 hours) per week, but when YOU decide to give her the time is up to you. Note she does not have to be out of the home but off work. If you don't want her to be off Saturday nights/sundays tell her and put it in writing when she is to take time off! (Always put things in writing that are of a contract nature, many don't and later suffer ie get accused of not giving time off etc etc). If she does not want to work by your rules then you should both agree that she leaves and you find a new FDH otherwise you will both fall out and have problems later. Sounds to me that both sides have already lost trust in each other anyway.
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We follow the 24 hour rule, she is off Saturday night, starting at 7:30 through Sunday night at 9:30 (that's 26 hrs. and aside from that, we often go on holidays for at least a week to 10 days almost every month. The trust being lost, you might be right. Can it be restored is the question and how? I do like her, she is very enthusiastic and the kids love her. I went through 40 interviews before I hired her, it's just when you live with someone and are in contact with them 24/7, there are issues bound to arise. I think I will have a talk with her and really come out with the issues (hers and mine), I do realize that sometimes replacing someone may bring forth issues worse than before.
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My apologies for being confused here. You say you need her Saturday nights as that is your time with your husband and want her on call, which is working and then you say she has from 7.30 off on a Saturday night. Which one is it?
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If we do go out on Saturday and need her to babysit, she usually gets additional time off on Sunday. The point is that we were never consulted on the day that she takes these supposed classes.
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I don't really get it. Your helper is entitled to 24 hours leave per week and if she understood this 24 hrs begins at 7:30pm on Saturday I am not sure why you feel she should have consulted you before signing up for an 8pm class on Saturdays. You can't deny her these 24 hours leave when you feel like going out on a Saturday evening.
She is entitled to 24 HOURS - that is 7.30pm Saturday to 7:30 Sunday. How can she take "additional time" on Sunday?
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and I doubt she is having her English class (I really doubt it...) Just be informed that they have lots of part-time job....
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thanks for all of your feedback we've worked out the issue...just as an aside, she starts at 7:30 everyday and is done at 7:30 at night and gets a break in between for about 2 hours...when we do go out and don't come home until 11:00 P.M. for example, she is essentially...if we count from 11:00 P.M. Saturday to 7:30 A.M. Monday that is a total of 32.5 hours, she is not working at this time, just because she is at home. We have provided her with her own TV/DVD and computer. Where do you suppose she would be staying? Do we get it now BumpyDog and Evildeeds?
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clap clap for byechicago!
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You can't count the hours on Saturday night as part of her 24 hours off as she's entitled to that time off anyway (she needs to sleep after a full day at work) If you take a day off from work it doesn't start from the time you leave the office but from the next day as evenings are yours anyway.
So if she works Saturday she should be off from Sunday morning until Monday morning and if you don't need her Saturday evening then she is free then too as she would be any other evening.
Glad you sorted it out though
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actually, optimistic, a "day off" is usually calculated as a 24 hour period beginning at midnight and ending 24 hours later - ie a day regardless of the number of hours the employee would normally work and without taking into account the usual starting and finishing work times.
So, an employer who gives their helper Sunday off could calculate it from midnight on Sat to midnight on Sunday. Not sure it helps in this case...
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smallfry you know as well as i do that people work till a set time then are off until they start work at there usual time the next morning. We are talking about work days are we not? that's the other problem some employers think there helpers should be on call 24/7 in case they need them rather than finishing and starting at set times so there helpers can have some sort of a life too.
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actually, optimistic, I was talking about days off rather than "work days" and making the point that most businesses calculate a "day off" as 24 hours commencing from midnight rather than by reference to an employee's actual work hours during that day.
I fail to see the link between this point and your speculation that "some employers think there helpers should be on call 24/7 in case they need them rather than finishing and starting at set times so there helpers can have some sort of a life too."
Surely the aim of all employers is to have happy, healthy employees which, in turn, necessitates certain and reasonable working conditions?
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Maybe smallfry although it's the first i've heard of it and frankly is only relevant if you are planning on asking a person to work outside of there agreed hours.
As i said if you work Tuesday but have wednesday off you would finish on Tuesday at your normal time and wouldn't go back to work until Thursday morning at your usual start time.
So if your helper finishes on Saturday at 7.30 she should be free until monday morning and her usual start time (unless you have requested babysitting in which case she would finish from when you get home)
It's hardly speculation now is it we all know that there are some terrible employers who expect there helpers to work all the hours god sends, i find it hard to believe you live such a sheltered life that your not aware of that.
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Optimistic - I agree. I quote one of OP's posts:
when we do go out and don't come home until 11:00 P.M. for example, she is essentially...if we count from 11:00 P.M. Saturday to 7:30 A.M. Monday that is a total of 32.5 hours, she is not working at this time, just because she is at home.
It comes across as if OP is proud of the fact that she doens't make her helper start working when the helper's 24 hours rest period ends at 11pm on Sunday.
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well, think about it, optimistic:
eg the 3 employees of a small business all take the same day off. The employer doesn't record these as "A is taking leave, from 7.30 am Tues to 7.30am weds; B is taking leave from 8am Tues to 8am Weds; C is taking leave from 9am Tues to 9am Weds". The simple fact is that A, B and C are all taking leave on Tuesday and the employees' particular working hours are irrelevant - you don't expect them to come into work and you record the 24 hour period which constitutes Tuesday as the day off.
So, to go back to your original comment, "You can't count the hours on Saturday night as part of her 24 hours off as she's entitled to that time off anyway", which is what I responded to, an employer who calculates from, say 8pm Saturday to 8 pm Sunday, could count this time as part of the "continuous 24 hour" rest day if they were prepared to give up Sat night babysitting, help with dinner parties etc in exchange for help on sunday night.
In most cases however, the rest day is calculated from midnight to midnight and, as most of us would not expect a FDH to start work at midnight, she would start work at her usual time the following day. The hours between midnight of the end of the rest day and the start of the new work day is part of the "work day" but is still time she is not expected to work even though it is not part of the rest day.
So, to go back to your example, the net effect is the same - helper would stop work on Sat night and resume on Monday morning but her mandatory 24 hours time off would be from midnight on Sat to midnight on Sunday. I hope this explains my position on this matter.
As to your other points:
Is it really appropriate to speculate about my life, sheltered or otherwise, in this forum?
I continue to see your comments about "terrible employers who expect there helpers to work all the hours god sends," as speculative and judgmental. There is nothing in the original post nor in my responses to your comments which warrant these blanket and, frankly, not very useful, statements.
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Well small fry betechicago stated
"We follow the 24 hour rule, she is off Saturday night, starting at 7:30 through Sunday night at 9:30 (that's 26 hrs"
That is taking advantage of her helper as saturday evening should be part of Saturday off not her one rest day off a week.
Doesn't seem to be speculation now does it
Again if you believe all employers are good then... you choose the wording
It wasn't a blanket statement i very clearly said some terrible employers
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optimistic,
the complete quote you rely on, above, is:
"We follow the 24 hour rule, she is off Saturday night, starting at 7:30 through Sunday night at 9:30 (that's 26 hrs. and aside from that, we often go on holidays for at least a week to 10 days almost every month."
So, in addition to the mandated 24 hours per week off - whatever the start and end time - the helper in this case also has extra days each month when she doesn't have to work nights (and presumably is free to go out or stay in as she chooses). Hardly overworked by a "terrible employer".
The original poster further explains in a subsequent post that:
"just as an aside, she starts at 7:30 everyday and is done at 7:30 at night and gets a break in between for about 2 hours...when we do go out and don't come home until 11:00 P.M. for example, she is essentially...if we count from 11:00 P.M. Saturday to 7:30 A.M. Monday that is a total of 32.5 hours, she is not working at this time, just because she is at home."
So, regardless of whether Sunday evening forms part of the rest day or the start of a new work day there is no expectation that the helper actually work on Sunday evening.
It appears that, because the employer usually gave the helper Sat nights off, the helper assumed that she would get all Sat nights off and planned accordingly - a little presumptious but understandable in the circumstances. The employer, on the other hand, didn't want to work around the helper's Sat night commitments. Again, reasonable. Then they worked it out!
I don't see that the employer took advantage of the helper in any way. She complied with the law in giving 24 hours every week as I have detailed above.
What would lead you to think that I "believe all employers are good" from my posts?
As I said before, I do think that all employers want their helpers to be happy and productive and that this necessitates fair working conditions. An unhappy helper makes for a disharmonious household, which no-one wants, so employers have an incentive to make things work.
Where I think we differ, is that I think what is "fair" (ie what works) in one household may not be the same as what works in your (or another) household. It is for that employer and helper to decide what works for them and, if they are happy with it, it is "fair".
It is not useful to speculate whether households unknown to either of us are "terrible employers who expect there helpers to work all the hours god sends,". Better, in my view, to address the specific points the topic raises.
Can we stop now?!
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