Helpers... a different species?

/rant


Hong Kong government thinks so, and therefore we have these complex and idiotic laws. But that's fine. Many countries have laws more stupid than these.


Discussing those laws on forums like this one is a great way of getting information and advice.


What confuses me is why do educated, 'sophisticated', cultered, civilized, enlightened employers expect the helpers to behave like robots?


Most condescending of the remarks I read and hear are about the helpers finding 'white' boyfriends/husbands. I'd be branded a racist if I said the same about Chinese women drooling over western guys.


/rant end

Agree 100% with your remarks, and would add that these "educated, 'sophisticated', cultered, civilized, enlightened employers" are racist, as are most of the indiginous population of HK.


If only they knew how the the people from less sophisticated SE Asian countries view them, maybe they would be a little more tolerant.

in my interaction with Chinese people i found them to be impatient, irritable and no doubt racist.


educations seems to play little role in this global city.

"in my interaction with Chinese people i found them to be impatient, irritable and no doubt racist."-THAT COMMENT is RACIST...I am sure not ALL 1.4 million people are "impatient, irritable and racist". Maybe you need to interact with more Chinese people…(and Hong Kong people will not be representative of ALL Chinese people).


Going back to the point, I do find the laws in Hong Kong extremely biased and can be perceived as raciest. What I find ironic is that 50,000 people will protest in Victoria park every year on June 4 to fight for democracy and freedom of speech but no one will fight for even the most basic rights of these domestic workers.


I don't think being "sophisticated, cultured, civilized, enlightened employers" have anything to do with being racist. I believe in the US back in the days, the "sophisticated, cultured, civilized, enlightened employers" were the ones that owned slaves. I think how we treat people will depend on how high our moral standards are.


Hong Kong is such a materialistic city, although the education level may be very high in Hong Kong, the moral standards are very low. This city is built on a hierarchy and unfortunately the domestic workers stand very low in this hierarchy.


HOWEVER, after saying the above...we may seem all so righteous talking about this on Asiaxpat, but unfortunately when Friday and Saturday night rolls in, none of us will be fighting for anyone's right…we will all be either in SOHO or LKF enjoying the comfy life of an expat. So before we jump so quickly to point the finger…let's ask ourselves what the F$%&$ have we done to improve Hong Kong society…

unfortunately that's the way of the world.........


the strong will dominate the weak, the victor the vanquished


in fact, if you observe the animal, plant and insect kingdoms that is how it is


however, the only thing that separates humans from animals, plants, and insects, is our superior brain, one which enables us to reason and feel, and there in lies the rub


we are designed with the ability to reason and feel but ability does not mean we will exercise such faculties


in fat, the irony of such gifts is that it comes also with the ability to switch off when life overwhelms


so, in a city of 426 square miles with 7 million plus inhabitants. it becomes all too easy to filter out the noise, the thoughts, and the feelings that seem to come naturally to those who come from quieter, smaller, and more neighbourly environments


to criticise is human, to understand, divine

I have found many helpers to be racist, even advertising for western employers when they are about to leave a job,rather than any other race of employer, and many times heard them say they don't like to work for a Chinese family.

It works both ways and is all wrong.

Thank you Susie1, for supplementing the opening post.

excuse me

but i will disagree about why helpers choose to find a expat employer.

note this mr.

ITS BECAUSE EXPAT EMPLOYER ARE MORE PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH TO FOLLOW

WORKING HOUR

EQUAL RIGHTS

AND MOST OF ALL THEY DON’t THINK THE SALARY THAT THEY GIVEN TO THOSE HELPERS OF COURSE ITS THE SAME VALUE ON CONTRACT,BUT THEY UNDERSTAND HOW HARD DOES TO BE AS A HELPER..AND FOR SURE NO HELPERS ARE JUST RECIEVE A MONEY FOR PLEASURE.

DONT BE SO HIGHLY TO YOURSELF MR.

REMEMBER THIER RUN THE EVERY FAMILY AND A HOUSE HERE IN HK.

THE SALARY EVERY MONTH IS NOT ENOUGH TO STEP ON THIER DIGNITY.

AND FOR ME MOST OF THEM ARE MORE EDUCATED COMPARE TO THIER BOSS

ADMIT THE FACT THAT MISS COMMUNICATION IS STILL THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY MOST OF THEM DONT STAY LONG IN THE JOB.

MAINLANDER AND LOTS OF HONGKONGERS

especially to those philippine helper as i know they dont need to enrolled thier self in college to speak english and be professional and have knowledge in life.

Instead of interact on lots of forum like MOMS D

FORUM,HELPERS AND etc.fucos on how to take good care of ur family and find a prospective helper to help you..anywhere i heard all those forum about how HK families complaints,argue and even discuss about helper that it should be a privacy on a helper.

HOW ABOUT IF THOSE HELPER TALKS ABOUT HOW RUDE AND GROSS YOU ARE.

I disagree with you margaretdoyle, I know lots of western people and Chinese people who treat their helpers quite well.

The reason a lot of helpers are preferring to work for western employers, if the fact the western people are not usually in HK for long periods to time, they are new to the helper idea.Many of them don't know how to start looking for a helper, and SOME end up with really bad helpers,by listening to sob stories, about families back home, many don't realise or know the HK Imm rules for employing a helper! and allow their helper to work PT or live out, which is illegal. So they let the helper get away with all sorts of things, ie they are a very soft touch, that is why helpers like them.

Also, many expats as you call them, westerners, don't know of the lies, and tricks helpers get up to, until they have been in HK a while, then they are more discerning to find the right helper, and do research to hopefully speak to the last employer, to check out the credibility of the helper.

HK/Chinese employers are used to having helpers around, as a normality,and many have had good helpers who are respected, and stay with them for a long while, also they know all the HK rules for employment, and are less likely to put up with any B**sh*t from helpers,

I will add that there are some really bad employers, and they don't come from any certain race, but there are also some really bad FDHs, also, who can lie, cheat, steal, and who work illegal part time with or without their bosses knowledge, and often an FDH who is sacked will complain about unfair dismissal just to stay in HK.

I don't know why HK doesn't have any day nurseries, or a bigger 'pool' of part time local HK/Chinese, legal helpers, for if it did, many of the westerners wouldn't dream of having a FDH.

My advice to western employers, newbies to HK, has always been, know the employment rules, I downloaded and copied them, interview very carefully, don't go by looks or sob stories, never rely on a written reference- as these have been known to be false, and always try to employ someone with a good record and the last employer they can speak to, face to face if possible.

Get the helper to have a medical before the last bit of contract is signed, to make sure they are in good health, no TB, not pregnant, no other undisclosed illness which may be passed onto an employers family, or be detrimental to the way the helper works.

Adhere to he employment rules, once you have employed an FDH, and treat them fairly but firmly, giving them a comfortable private place to sleep and shower of their own, good rest at night time, and the right amount of time off at weekends.

Always pay the correct wage through a bank, plus food allowance, and then if there is any dispute, they always have a record and cannot accuse the employer of not paying them.

Susie1, I agree totally with you. You wrote very correctly and fairly and you understand the situations in Hong Kong so well. Bravo!

I second Susie1 as well! Can't be put better!

BJCC, hear, hear!

First of all, I'm not a Hongkonger or a mainlander.

But here's my take.

The reason why helpers prefer expatriates is because expatriates are loaded with enough money to pay them WAYYY above the minimum wage. The majority of hongkongers are on a different pay scale.

Secondly, expatriates are so rich that they can afford to have their wives stay home so the helper doesn't have to do everything.

Thirdly, if expatriates own a big house, they think nothing about hiring a part timer to help or another domestic helper. Expatriates earn more than enough, so much so that they believe that helpers get paid very, very little.

Compare this to a security guard who earns less than 10k each month. The salary and upkeep of a DH is half of their pay.They do not feel DH are getting paid very little. They still have a mortgage, bills, groceries, insurance and educational fees to pay. Do you know how much an average Hongkonger gets paid?

So before ye, all high and mighty pass judgement on the HK people, please go and understand their standard of living. Hong Kong should have a system in place where the rich/expatriate gets taxed harder so that resources can be reallocated to help Hong Kongers and domestic helpers.

The majority of Hongkongers are fair to their DH and they treat their DH nicely and fairly. Only the expatriates that come here spoil the market for them because of the expatriate payscale where they can almost give "gold" to all helpers.

I agree, there are Chinese that drool over western guys. Why? Simply because of the HUGE gap between income of a hongkonger compared to an expatriate.

As to why DH are treated like robots by Hongkongers..... err...... I don't believe any of my hongkong friends do that. What I do know is that they work till late. They don't get home until 9-10pm after work. So sometimes their helpers have to cook late but still get up early to tend to the kids. Such is the lifestyle of a hongkonger and unfortunately a DH. The nature of the jobs mean they(hongkongers) don't have the luxury to go out drinking on a weekday.

On a website like asiaxpat, it is very easy to be one sided, to think poorly of the Hongkongers. This is so so wrong. Unless you are in their shoes, who are you to judge? What makes you think that you are all high and mighty compared to them? Oh I've forgotten because you earn 10-20 times more than they do.

The honkongers also think it is unfair that their expatriate bosses go out and play golf, earning a hell of a lot of salary while they "slave away", almost like the DHs.

I know lots of hongkongers who would love to give more to their DHs if they had money. Their DHs work really, really hard. If you sympathise and have money to offer these DHs and you want to put your rant to good use, please let me know.

hmmmm... lets see.... in which other countries do security guards hire full time domestic help?

Our day time security guard (she's a female and half Chinese half Filipino) hires a full time domestic helper in her household.

Hi Gemma, I mostly agree with your statement, and know lots of people on lower wages, who have to employ a helper, so they can work, because some couples with children need to work.

I also know some western expats, who have become more like locals, been in HK a long time, and not on the best of wages, they are by no means loaded, and also sometimes need a helper.

I used to take a walk in the local park, and often have a type of conversation with our lovely guards they only mainly spoke Chinese and I only spoke a few words of their language but somehow we mad ourselves understood. They were only on low wages,, as was the elderly Chinese man who kept the toilets near central pier spotlessly clean, he I think also had a small sleeping place in the toilet block, and earned a very lowly wage.

My advise to any newbie employing a helper for the first time, is to pay that helper the minimum wage, and basic food allowance, if the helper prove exceptionally good after some months, then a small addition can be added to the wage if it is affordable. If both employer and employee have a good honest working relationship then as long as the minimum is paid,both party's should be happy.

FDHS do not only get their wage, which they often complain about, they either get a food allowance or eat with the family where they are resident, al the electricity they use fit TV, computers, lights heating, hot water for showers is free,because they live in the employers home, this actually adds loads on top of their wages, so they don't do bad at all, and should never discriminate other local employers in HK. Although being a westerner in HK, we never looked at any FDH for interview who advertised they prefer western employes, we wanted less biased employee. We ended up employing one older lady, she turned out to have various problems of bad streetwise habits, that she had picked up by being too long in HK. We employed her on the basic wage for her first few months to find out if she was worthy of that. after three months we raised her wage very slightly, but then she started to go a bit bad, taking things which dint belong to her being lazy, and trying to work part time when our backs were turned, plus various others scamming. We didn't renew her contract, and only gave and honest written ref. we spoke to people who she did get to interview her, but In The end nobody wanted her. Nora was older, and did not want to work with Chinese or Indian familiar, amd did not want to look after children under the age of eight. And only wanted to work for people with one tiny dog, which didn't need much exercise, So in the end she went home for good back to Fils.

So called "part time" domestic helpers were earning 60 bucks an hour even 15 years ago. Many worked for Expat bosses who were out all day & travelled for work 5-6 times per year. My aunt's boyfriend an Expat left his home at 7.00 am every day returning at 7.30 pm. He also worked 3 Sats out of 4, usually until 5.00 pm. At that time he was paying his helper $3,000 a month way ABOVE the then minimum wage. When this guy starting serious about my aunt, that was when Gloria started her dirty tricks campaign.. Gloria only wanted to work for an EXpat bachelor. She had gotten used to disappearing after her lunch at 11.00 am and returning to her work place at 6 pm in time to cook a simple meal of grilled lamb chops or a Cobb salad for her Employer. My aunt found out that Gloria was doing part time time work elsewhere. What did Gloria do? She concocted some story which broke up the relationship between her employer and my aunt. Gloria had she been young or prettier would no doubt be found in Wanchai looking for "Mr White" herself like so many women from the Philippines. She consoled herself that when she left HK she was the proud owner of a fully paid up 3 bed house plus 2 pieces of land and a stall selling household goods. I am not from HK nor the Mainland myself and I have seen the many dirty tricks Filipinoa domestic helpers play on their too easy going employers having lived here for many years. Compare their job with the work of local cleaners who were paid the equivalent of $18 an hour cleaning Government facilities like toilets with no housing nor paid food subsidies. If it's bad here, why have Filipinos remained the biggest pool of Domestic Helpers here? Look on Facebook, you will see the "maids made good" all pretending they were middle class and college graduates. As for education, this is codswallop, most do not have much education. Do the math. A lot got knocked up at 16, became a mother at 17, had another kid by 19, then came to HK in their early twenties. I have interviewed and met hundreds (a D.H. Employment agency being right next to my then office). I got to know the owner. He would check up on the educational attainments of his applicants for his professional clients who wanted helpers who had some level of education as they entertained business associates at home. The helpers who were caught out with lying (no surprises here) would tearfully own up to having left school at 14 "because the family was poor" or another agency "had advised" them to say they were college graduates. If you can fake a passport you can fake anything. Remember the Filipina "socialite" Veronica Coady alias Veronika Coady alias Veronique Coady whose real name was Maria Remedios Bueno? The one who was convicted of stabbing her Swiss beau and claimed that the Judge, the Media and everyone else was RACIST? She had the best defense lawyers which cost the HK Government and its people over $1m defending her. I was present during this trial. I also knew "Veronica". She continued to proclaim her innocence claiming that racism in HK was what convicted her despite irrefutable evidence of her violent crime. The guy who ran DHL (go read all about DHL and its Founders) who was also "heavily into Filipinas" gave "Veronica" the use of DHL's company flat where the stabbing took place. He was not involved with the stabbing of course but he had slept with "Veronica" (who hasn't?) and she demanded accommodation for herself and also housed her Swiss lover in the same digs. "Veronica" held many passports all bearing different versions of her name. You can google this murder case. Racism is often claimed by Filipinos everywhere. Why don't they all remain in their "Utopian" islands where guns and goons proliferate and where their elected President is still insisting that the Manila Hostage crisis does not warrant an apology from his Government. It is the inability to admit you are wrong when you clearly are which is what makes Filipinos so dsliked. I knew quite a few Expat policemen. They would shake their heads and agree that YES they (Filipinos) are not (much) liked here. Get your own house in order instead of gossiping and complaining about HK people. My Korean girlfriend who once dared to complain about the food in London (circa 1996) was told by the locals "Go back to where you came from!". QUITE!! If Filipinas don't like it here try Saudi Arabia and bring whichever Whitie you managed to nail with you and see if he too can get an Expat salary there. All this belly aching is symptomatic of a nation that can't get their own house in order but think they are qualified to criticize a vibrant economy like HK with a lot of talented educated people. The Filipinas' standard interrogation whenever they meet Asian women who are clearly not Filipinas is "ARE YOU CHI-NEESE?". Why do they "need" to establish the ethnicity of women of Asian descent?? Hey no prizes for guessing. They do not like the locals . And the educated ones KNOW it. These educated women are seen as their competition for the White guys (aka the Filipinas' meal ticket) these other women who are a lot more educated coming from professional homes and bred in a far more affluent environment. There is a lot of ENVY and a sense of "entitlement" in the Filipino psyche. This is why they can tell such convincing sob stories that the fat, pot bellied, bald or unattractive Whities all seem to "buy" and end up marrying them.

spitfire

You seem to be carrying a grudge. You ought to consider letting this go-- it won't be good for your health.

There are always the good and the bad on both sides. Employers and employees.

Do not allow yourself to be deluded to think that all women coming here are looking for white employers. This is simply patently not true.

They want a job that pays well, they want to be treated fairly and they want to be able to send money home to the family. Some are deeply affected by Yolanda or some sort of earthquake or a volcano. The government is deeply corrupt with no end in sight.

Some employers are genuine princesses and once they hire a DH, they will not do anything else in the house even if there are many children. Sometimes they have such anger issues they will take it out on the DH when a mistake is made.

Can you see where I am headed here? There are problems, people are people they have baggage in life.

Lets not label people as "species"it's not right. Compartmentalizing people is not right. Some people shouldn't hire a domestic helper to live in their home and some domestic helpers should not work in such an environment.

JMHO

Steady on Spitfire.


Perhaps you or someone you know.has had a bad experience, but really that soliloquy reads as with thinly veiled anger and bias

Sadly, I think Spitfire is a good example of how people in Hong Kong feel about the domestic helpers (even though she is "not from HK or the Mainland").


I think it is fair to say that people in Hong Kong need the Domestic helpers and the domestic helpers need the people from Hong Kong.


If people in Hong Kong (doesn't matter if you are local of an expat) didn't have domestic helpers, it is VERY difficult for people to actually have a family, run the household in such a demanding city (especially when most people are working 9-12 hour days). And, if the domestic helpers didn't have Hong Kong, they would not be able to provide for their families or provide proper education for their children back home. They made a decision to come to Hong Kong.


The "problem" is that they don't like each other...but I don't see that as a "problem". Society is composed of MANY different kinds of people with different kinds of thinking, cultures and experiences. Who are we to judge other people when we have not had their experiences?


If I was a local person from Hong Kong and my neighbourhood is congested with domestic helpers and I am not getting any respect from them and all they want are "white" employers, damn right I will resent them.


AND, if I was a domestic helper and I come to Hong Kong and I am changing someone's baby while they are out having high tea and sayingsh*t about my dark skin, damn right I will resent them.


I don't want to make this sound like a "beauty pageant" speech, but why can't we live side by side in this society and just mind our own business, instead of attacking all the people in this society? Who cares if the domestic helpers are in Wan Chai? How many expats are in LKF looking for love? Who cares if the domestic workers are looking for "white" men? How many expats are dating local Chinese guys?


I think we just need to realize that we don't ALL have to like each other. And if we can't respect each other, at least try to understand each other. In the end, we are ALL (locals, expats, domestic helpers) trying to make some money in this concrete jungle! So, let's all give each other some slack!

Susie1, You talk about not believing 'sob stories', but unfortunately many of the sob stories are true. Many employers underpay their DHs, and/or don't give them the holidays they are legally entitled to, and/or make them work ridculous hours. I remember when I was living in my previous residence I would see the same DH washing her employer's car EVERY NIGHT when I came home (this was around 9pm). I guess their employer's decided that they might as well get as much work out of her as possible. I also remember discussing this issue with my ex-wife (who is Chinese) when we considering getting a helper. She thought that I was absolutely out of mind for suggesting that we pay the helper the legal minimum wage, and insisted that we pay only 2000 per month "like all of her friends do". Yes there are good employers. including good Chinese employers, and yes there are bad FDHs. But I also think that Chinese culture encourages the exploitation and mistreatment of those who are vulnerable (for example there was no minimum wage in HK until recently).

Dave, there are those who break the minimum salary rules, yes, but they are in the minority. The majority of Hongkongers abide by the minimum salary rule for helpers.

Hw many DHs do you see washing their employers' car EVERY NIGHT to make such judgement on Chinese culture?

Not all sob stories are fake but not all are true either. You judge the individual, not the culture or the helper community.

You say that Chinese mistreat helpers. I can find you expats who do as well. Thing is, there's always going to be more Chinese guilty of this simply because expats are in the minority here.

I was on holiday in Malaysia at the end of last year and I was disgusted when I saw a group of expats passing their beer bottle to a beggar to hold one by one, then placing coins into the beggar's cup.

You say, "the Chinese culture encourages the exploitation and mistreatment of those who are vulnerable". They could easily say the same about expats. They spend all their time playing golf with the majority of the work done by the locals (overtime included), AND expats get a salary that could be ten times more!

What I'm trying to say is enough already. I agree with BJCC's statement:" In the end, we are ALL (locals, expats, domestic helpers) trying to make some money in this concrete jungle! So, let's (cut) each other some slack".

I do not resent the locals, the mainlanders, the helpers or the multiracial expat community. I do not think one is better than the other. It's awful that some expats get paid so much and we have the helpers at the other end of the scale. I wish the system was fairer. I wish we all didn't have to do so much overtime so mothers and fathers could come home earlier to tend to their children, giving their helpers a break. In life, it's always unfair. There's always someone richer and someone poorer, someone with more advantages and someone with less advantages. Don't make it any worse by labelling ANY group in a negative way. Under the same circumstances, you may do the same. If you are stuck at work until midnight, do you tell your helper to go to bed at 7pm and forget the children or your pets?

The next time you feel the need to judge, just stop and think...... what if you were in their shoes? Do you really know the circumstances of their lives? If you don't, then what right have you got to cast the first stone? If you judge and say bad things about the Chinese, then aren't you just as bad as those who do the same to helpers? So let's not.

Regarding security guards hiring helpers.... sadly they do. I know two who do. I know one who works as a security officer from 8am - 5-6pm?, then does a second shift by taking goods over to China to earn more money. The helper's salary takes a big chunk out of his pay package but he has to hire because he has kids. I don't know whether his wife works or not but I think she probably does, hence the need for a helper. I know another security officer who works to support her daughter. She's divorced (or never married?) and has a helper to help her when she's out working. I often wonder how she makes it because I think she only gets 9-10k a month? It was 8k a month when she told me years ago.

Hear hear GemmaW - so nice to read posts like yours & Susie1 - intelligent, genuine, proper, clean-cut and not one sided. Giving good advices and showing a better if not a full picture of the local scene to new inexperienced employers who want to hire helpers.

Gemma, Yes of course you are right we should judge the individual and not the group. I did not mean to insult Chinese people in general. Chinese culture has it's good and bad points like any other. There are things I feel are better here than where I come from and there are things I think are worse. I do believe however that Hong Kong culture, in general, favors the wealthy more than European culture, and even more than US culture. It's not only the helpers that suffer but also the locals at the lower end of the economic ladder. The low minimum wage, lack of strong unions, lack of tipping, ... lead to most of the people working long hours for relatively low pay while a few benefit greatly (and yes expats are often among those that benefit and also contribute to this culture).

I've seen survey after survey that the majority of helpers don't even get their own room - something that is against the law in Hong Kong - so the notion most helpers are well looked after is a complete farce from the outset. You simply should listen to the latest legco rants about living out helpers at risk of 'going to bars' or 'getting pregnant' as a reason not to allow it. God forbid if they engaged in their human right to procreate.

cheesypeasplease


what planet are you living in when you comment that "majority of helpers don't even get their iwn rooms".


The majority of HK people don't get their own rooms!

50 per cent of families live in public housing of 200 to 300 square feet

and a lot wbo live in private property of 400 to 600 square feet.

Let's not forget about entire famikies living in 50square feet in subdivided flats.

If two employers leave the home for work at 7 am and the school bus comes to collect the schoolkid at 7.15 am...pray..tell me what time does the live out helper have to get up to travel to the employer and the helper is most likely living miles away because its cheaper rent..and what happens if due to bus not coming the helper is late ??

How about offering solutions instead of offering reasons not to grant them the CHOICE to live out?


Most probably the case you mention will not allow a live out helper. But what if the helper just cleans up the home and looks after the cat/dog when the employer is out?

Little Gems, probably the same thing that millions of people around the world do every day. Get up at 4 am to get to work on time!

Beermoney...yes...but doesn't mean the helper works even longer bours? because of the commute.time and cost ofliving out means employers will pay less to helpers but more to landlords?

I'm confused about the original post:

"What confuses me is why do educated, 'sophisticated', cultered, civilized, enlightened employers expect the helpers to behave like robots?


Most condescending of the remarks I read and hear are about the helpers finding 'white' boyfriends/husbands. I'd be branded a racist if I said the same about Chinese women drooling over western guys. "


I am not aware that there is a desire that helpers act like robots. In what way? Although I suppose that robot helper from the cartoon "Jetsons" comes to mind :-) apologies to those who don't know of this cartoon show. Nonetheless, it is new to me that people want helpers to be like robots.


Secondly, about remarks about helpers white boyfriends/husbands -- also new to me. Where is this happening and why don't I know about it? And more importantly -- why would I even care!


Then this thread started onto complaints about how "locals" treat their helpers. Gosh -- how could a security guard employ a helper! (not because there's any "looking down" on security guards), and heaven forbid a helper not get their own room!


Even though this forum is for xpats, we need to remember that not only xpats employ helpers and HK does not have a daytime-only childcare system in place for parents who both work outside of the home. As such, many families themselves live in 1 or 2 bedrooms and don't have their own separate rooms. It's not always 'fair', but not that the local Chinese are always mis-treating their helpers.

Oh come on Susie...No one will listen to you..Been seing your post to this furom and all of them are against domestic helper ..what the hell is wrong with you.

If i will be a dh 4010 hkd is not enough to work more than 12-16 hour 6 days a week.

Wash my employers dirty underwear

Swipe and pick up your bugger everywhere

And even sort your pubic hair in bathub

And try to understand the attitude of having a "princess syndrome " of those yellowbells

And what do you think of expat here in HK?didnt know the rules or hiring a helper...are u under estimated them?Helper like to work on expat cuz they don't act highly and live enjoying thier families.They are not racist

mbbcat, oh my goodness! Now it is me that's generalising and judging? Oh dear me. I'm not a local hongkonger or a mainland Chinese yet I'm here giving a balanced view. I may have shared your opinion 13 years ago when I first got here but not anymore.


I agree with you, mbbcat, not ALL expats are filthy rich..... but have you noticed that only those who are in the position to offer a very generous DH package are usually the ones with better salary and the ones that are the most critical of the locals here? What I'm trying to say is that the majority of hongkongers are not in that kind of position to afford giving their DHs the same perks. I'm 100% sure the majority would if they could, simply because their DHs look after their kids.


I'm entitled to my point of view and my point of view stands with me. The majority of hongkongers do not have the kind of luxury expats do. The wives cannot stay home to help DHs with the housework (because they need two parents working), they cannot afford to give DHs salaries above the minimum wage like 6-8k because they cannot afford it. This does not mean that they mistreat their DHs. They don't. Their DHs may have to work till late because the parents don't get home till late but this is the reality here.


Sorry but you are putting words in my mouth. I did not suggest taxation based on race but based on income. Expats come to Hong Kong because they enjoy the relatively low tax system here. I'm merely pointing out that perhaps a better allocation of resources may result, if Hong Kong adopts the same tax system as your country back home? Maybe? Perhaps?


If you talk about my "circle", I can assure you that it's widened since 13 years ago. I'm able to speak the language more confidently now (not fluent but they don't mind) so I make it a point to talk to all the locals I come into contact with.


It saddens me to hear how some of you feel about the locals here. Just like you, I'm also an ethnic minority, struggling to learn how to read and write Chinese so that I'm more in demand anywhere in HK/China career-wise and so I can become part of the community more. But isn't this the same as all the Chinese who go to western countries? They too struggle with the langugage and trying to fit in. Why cast a stone at them?


I wish I could offer those of you who don't believe a security guard hires a DH to come talk to her but I worry about offending her for being so insensitive by using her as an example. And in this regard, I was being insensitive and I apologise to her for this.


I'm not here to criticise any of you, nor am I here to judge or label anyone. Forgive me if I come across as being judgemental. My only intention is to give a balanced view.


I used to hate Hong Kong during my first few years here. Something someone said to me changed all that. Before we judge a race for all the wrongdoings and imperfections, we must understand their culture, their history, their way of living......it is only then that we can really embrace their culture and start to accept and love them for who they are. If we don't like it here, we are free to leave. This is what that very person said to me ages ago.


And my views of Dhs... I am soooooooo grateful for mine. She left her family in Indonesia to work with me. Her daughter is the same age as mine. I can just imagine how difficult it is for her to bring up my child instead of her own. I cannot afford to give her 6-8k a month but I do give her financial bonuses every now and again, whenever I can afford it. Probably only enough for a plane ticket home mid contract at the moment. Both my DH and I aren't perfect but we compromise to make it work. I have total respect for my DH, for the sacrifice that she's made as a mother so her family could have a better future.

..it!s because hongkongers even they give a minimum salary to helper they still think the amount of money they give to thier helper pretty obvious they more on money matters.


GemmaW


In what reason...if i would be a helper i would choose a family that im happy to work with

Its not about a high salary that could an expat offer to thier helper.

And u dont need to clarify ur statement about expat..cuz its cleary and obviously chineseand expat are diff in a way how they treat thier helper....Take note of this most caucasian and white people don't hire helper like Aus,US etc...cuz all we know they familes are independent to run thier house and how to grew up thier kids with thier care.Unlike Hongkonger every home here has a helper..most of the kids grew up with nanny..And can u tell us what is "PRINCESS SYNDROME "is...lol..I wouldnt imagine if im a helper and work with those princess and the house...If i would be helper as long i recieve a minimum wages..would be fine..But we need to accept the fact that as you hear those helper side.... like

Some helper room is size a tomb

Chinese dont eat left over i mean old cook food so for less expenses they give it to thier helper

The chinese long soup..the meat after a long boiled they give it to thier helper

They don't have a manner to let thier helper to wash thier dirty underwear

And they dont like to see thier helper to sit down or go to thier room to rest even the helper done to her work.

They dont let thier kids to teach by helper to be independent by themselves like how to sort things cuz in the eyes of a princess in the house "your a helper you should do that and im the only one who can teach my kid..do end up to spoild thier kid"

Its more rare when employer is from mainland..

Even some hongkonger say negative about thier roots.

If someone comment against this "WE SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT THERE IS A FEELING EXPAT CHINESE ON THIS FORUM WHO TRY RO SAY NEGATIVE AND FOR SURE BEING EXHAUSTED ON THIER HELPERS AND TRY TO HUMILATE SO EXPAT SHOULD KNOW"i read some comentator here says EXPAT are new on how to hire helper and they don't know...OMG ..the saying "ur in

My teritory this is ours so you should know yourself in which way you belong here"thats thier signature...wtf

All i can say is how the government here implement a rules when it comes to helpers right or all foreign workers..or even local residents ...If they can!t control RACISM and traficking

The sad part is a only country that has a high discrimination and racist with thier fellow asians....Cuz they belong thier self as yellow people and speak english in british accent.remember havin a conversation with over confident chinese girl .omg if only thier know that some country and most less fortunate and uneducated people i mean some of them dont need to send thier self in school just to speak English..So if you think im racist now... and if you think im talking about you...well free to fit the lace...

What the hell is wrong with ppl on this forum??? Chinese ppl this, and White ppl that...stop generalizing...some white people are just as cheap as the chinese ones. And some Chinese ppl are more generous than some expats. Some DH are great and some are bad. (And margaretdoyle-"princess syndrome of those yellowbells" REALLY??? Don't say other ppl are racist when you are the one with the most racist attitude here! Another tip-don't use google translate to write your "essay", doesn't make sense.)


Before coming to HK, I would never think of getting a helper because 1) it is too expensive back home 2) I have family who can help out and 3) I didn't have to work as much!


After coming to HK, I feel like I need a helper, and why not get a helper if it is so affordable and makes your life so much easier! People need to stop comparing Hong Kong with back home. We live in a different country with different culture. Accept it.


GemmaW I do believe that a security guard can have a helper. I know a few people who are on welfare here in HK that have helpers. I was VERY surprised when I first heard this. But now I understand that some locals have to work 2 jobs, and they have children, and since hiring a helper is so affordable (maybe not SO affordable to them), they can hire helpers. I think it is a very WESTERN concept to think that hiring a helper is a luxury, but here everyone seem to have them.


And I also agree with GemmaW's point that just bc some locals are not giving their helpers the extra perks that some westerners give, doesn't mean that they are treating them bad. I have these expat friends who live in Bel Air and their maid sleeps in the back of their apt that looks like a boiler room! They constantly complain about their helper but they pay them maybe a little more than the locals. Is that called treating them better? I don't think so!


Like I said in my previous post, we are all here to make some money...no one's life is easy in this concrete jungle...either you are an expat or a local. There is no need to be so hostile towards each other.

Well said.

My point is not whether secuirty guards can afford a helper or not. GemmaW brought up the example that even some security guards have helpers. I think it is possible. Of course if it is just one single person who doesn't have a family, they may not need a helper or be able to afford a helper. But in many cases people (regardless if you are a security guard or a Wellcome cashier) have a family to support, which means they have more than one job and therefore need someone to take care of the family for them. Keep in mind many helpers here don't just take care of babies, they take care of the elderly too.


And yes, legally you need to be making 15,000. But many people get support from the government, and they have a way to get a helper.


So basically, my point is that the concept of a helper in Hong Kong is very different from the west. Back home my family has a part time helper, and ALL my friends thinks that we are super rich. But here, everyone can have a helper. It is a different way of looking at things.

cara, totally agree. You need a salary of HK$15k a month before you are allowed to hire. But note, you need a COMBINED salary of HK$15k to be able to hire. Meaning a husband AND wife combined salary. Again, most expats earn over HK$15k so they've never had to think about the COMBINED salary part when hiring.


This is why I said earlier I suspect his wife works also, because they have kids.


Generally when you have kids, you do have a spouse.