Posted by
mamadavid
16 yrs ago
Urgent, urgent! A friend of the helper of a friend of mine just arrived in HK for a job interview for a DH position. Immigration authorities at airport phoned the friend (given by the person as a contact in HK) and asked her what this person was planning to do in HK. Helper said "she's looking for a job" or "has a job interview" or something similar. Now they're putting the girl on the next flight back to the Philippines. Is coming to HK on a tourist visa in order to look for work illegal? I won't ask if they have the "right" to do this, because I know that the bottom line is border police have the right to accept or deny entry to anyone. Is there anything that can be done? Any advocacy group that can be contacted? Help!! Beancurd or soufflé queen, if you're out there .... Thanks
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Finding work on a tourist visa? Imagine if you're the immigration officer, what would have you done? Of course it is illegal to work here in Hong Kong while on a tourist visa. So is it okay to look for a job while on that same visa? What will prevent a person from working (while on a tourist visa) if she was actually looking for a job?
That lady was not even granted a tourist visa as she was turned back by an immigration officer.
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this is the same for all countries Australia, USA, etc.
Everyone must must comply with their Tourist visa validity and conditions. A breach of these conditions will result in the visa being cancelled and the person may have to leave the country.
what will the advocacy group be able to do? in the first place, she LIED as to the authorities about the purpose of her trip
fyi a tourist visa is meant for a limited period of leisure travel and no business activities allowed.
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The friend had come over as a tourist for an interview. She was not working on a tourist visa..
I don't really see what the big deal is. A lot of people come to HK, find a job while out here and then apply for visa.
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Coming in to HK, most people from Asia including the Philippines don't need a visa. The visa is stamped upon presentation of the passport to the immigration officer.
So when the officer asked this lady "what are going to do in HK", the answer was "for an interview"! So visa denied automatically! If she said, "I'm here for a vacation, and my friend sponsored for me" then she will be through 99.9% of the time. She then can do anything she pleases including the "unintended" interview. She can even work, be caught, thrown to jail :)
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marathon
bottomline is this - she came on a tourist visa, and under the condition of the tourist visa - no business activity is allowed. period. the moment she declared she was looking for work it was a clear violation of the visa condition.
i agree with punter, she should have better prepared with the q & a. philippine passport holders have a reputation of illegaly coming to work in the pretense of a tourist visa even in the USA and other countries !!!! therefore the woman should have been smart enough to work around questions so as not to arouse suspicion.
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So if I live in Tokyo, and want to fly down to HK for an interview, it is basically illegal.. I know it probably is the case, but still find it very stupid..
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immigration is on the lookout specifically for people from countries like the philippines as they have a reputation for overstaying and illegally working.
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"So if I live in Tokyo, and want to fly down to HK for an interview, it is basically illegal.. I know it probably is the case, but still find it very stupid.."
Correct. However if you are a Filipina you'll get ultra-scrutinized. If you look Western they won't look twice. Profiling? Clearly, but then again who is more likely to work illegally while in HK.
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feelings aside chardson - as axptguy says" if you are a Filipina you'll get ultra-scrutinized. If you look Western they won't look twice. Profiling? Clearly, but then again who is more likely to work illegally while in HK"
my comment is not an attack on their good traits but rather if you read my post - i said they have a reputation for overstaying and illegally working. so don't take it personally because that is the fact.
let's separate feelings with facts.
Filipino Diaspora
http://en.wikipilipinas.org/index.php?title=Filipino_diaspora
United States. The population is estimated to be 2,807,731[4] However, this number is speculated to be at 4.5 million, according to many Filipino American organizations, with 1 million who are illegally in the USA.
Japan Some 500,000 Filipinos and Filipino-Japanese are listed to be living within Japan's geographic confines. However, this number is speculated to be larger, surpassing the one million mark, in relation to many unlisted and illegal Filipino nationals
South Korea there is an estimated 50,000 Filipinos who are unlisted due to their immigration status.
Greece The Filipino population in Greece has now reached 90,000, 85% of whom are women. This is according to estimates of Kasapi-Hellas, an organization of the Filipino migrant community there. Some 60%-70% of this population is undocumented
New Zealand There are about 30,000 Filipino residents including Filipino-New Zealanders, as well as illegal immigrants who mostly overstay their visitor visas.
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/155124/Number-of-Filipinos-immigrating-to-US-decreasing
According to a previous US Homeland Security report, the Philippines was the fourth country from which the most number of illegal immigrants in the US come from – indicating an annual average increase of 10,000.
http://financemanila.net/2008/12/how-many-people-leave-the-philippines-each-year/
TOTAL FILIPINOS OVERSEAS SINCE 2004
3,187,586 stay permanently, 3,599,257 stay for work contracts, and 1,296,972 stay irregularly (without proper document)
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that is not the topic here. you simply jumped to a conclusion and have deviated from the topic. so please leave your rant and rave aside.
most philippine passport holders and like countries such as Indonesia are SCRUTINIZED and put under the microscope because of their reputation of overstaying and illegally working.
that is that.
that is a fact.
nothing to do with their traits and characteristics however admirable they may be
and nothing about their reasons for doing so has been criticized
and that is how it is with immigration not only in hong kong but in other countries as well like USA and Canada.
and for the record, there is nothing in my post that said shoppers are illegal workers - it is you who jumped to the conclusion.
my post simply said - it is a fact that philippine passport holders are scrutinized more closely than people from other countries
please read the post carefully and stop jumping to conclusions.
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Thanks for the replies all. To clarify things a bit (I wrote my first post in a bit of a panic, as we were trying to find a way to help this person before she was sent back), the Filipina in question was coming to HK because her friend had found her a possible employer. The girl was to come to HK to be interviewed, and if things worked out the employer would make the arrangements, through an agency, for the girl to come and begin work. I am not at all surprised or indignant that the immigration authorities turned her back -- although I'm disappointed for the girl, obviously. She should have been better organised and better prepared for the questions.
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And thanks, Beancurd. As always, your reply is very helpful.
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either that or she should have been armed to the teeth with support documents, invitation letter from the potential employer, return airtickets etc. etc
you could also have asked from the potential employer to speak with the immigration officers before she was sent back. i dont know if that would work but at least it would somehow support her claim
i am not so sure if she now has a record with immigration but if she does then it could be a little harder for her to come back to HK in the future.
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We had our helper come for an interview and a "5 day trial". Ours got stopped and questioned for 2 hours. Luckily she was smart enough to say I was a friend (as she lived here before) and that I was paying for her flight and she was staying at my home. Imm even called me, while she was being questioned AND they asked her to sign in and show her email account (thank goodness she had deleted all our correspondence)
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vak
16 yrs ago
Having been a v long term HK resident I can say that racial profiling may be a part of the screening process but no one can blame HK immigration alone. As an Asian immigrant with 28 years here I have sponsored 3 family members and a few employees during various stages of my stay here. I have been lucky never to have any hassels for paperwork as we have played by the rules. While applying for extensions of stay for visiting relatives here the staff have been extremely helpful and courteous and given us what we wanted. This is a far cry from the rudeness seen 15 - 20 years ago. The problem is the systematic abuse of the system by visitors as a result of which the frontline defence in HK is the immigration officer interviewing you. Its the problem of having a VISA on ARRIVAL policy. Most ECONOMIC MIGRANTS have found a loophole in the system and have been filing claims of torture in their home countries as soon as they arrive into HK. There are tens of thousands of such claimants who have systematically abused the system allowing them to stay here for 3-8 years. All this with welfare payments from HKSAR thrown in at 3500/month. Sadly the system is not foolproof so some genuine cases will surely get mistaken for possible illegals. I am on Indian origin and was told recently that there are nearly 10-15000 people in this category from India, Bangladesh and Srilanka alone. I sponsored a DH for the first time a few days ago and was put through the hoops by the Ph consulate for going through an agency. Reading through this trail explains that direct employment contracts are not the norm now and you have to go through an agency.
PS I frequently travel to Europe and USA and despite having visas I am always aware that a VISA into any foriegn country gives you RIGHT TO LAND. NOT a Right to ENTER. That decision of entry is made by the officer at the other end of the table.
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I can understand why immigration scrutinise Filipino passports so well - you only have to spend one evening in Wan Chai or certain establishments in LKF to see the number of young, female Filipino "shoppers" who are here illegally earning money to take back home for their families. Personally I dont have a problem with it, its their choice, but any Filipino here legally must realise that this does happen and therefore shouldnt be surprised at the scrutiny and "reputation" that they have. This isnt just one or two females - there are hundreds of them every day.
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i hope that chardson is following this post so he/she can learn something from the real world about racial profiling, racial discrimination etc. rather than flying off the handle.
fyi also, there are many reasons for people to illegally immigrate and there are also repercussions because their actions "hurts" and affects those who legitimately comes in to a country with all the proper documents and do not abuse their visa conditions.
it does not only happen to filipinos but to other races as well.
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vak
16 yrs ago
i agree with wizbang. when i first came here 28 yrs ago, indian nationals got 3 months visas on arrivals. over the years they abused the system to get work on arrival or work illegally. so Immigration changed it to 14 days on arrival. while they controlled the inflow to some degree it had a negative effect on genuine cases like ours when we have family visiting here during holidays. Our parents in their 70's wish to spend 6-8 weeks with the grandkids when they visit us here. So we normally go to immigration on their arrival here and apply for extension of stay for 1-2 months. Its a hassell but we have our own countrymen to blame. The last time we went for this application, the senior most official of the branch office came out at least 3 times to apologise to my mother for the 45 minutes it took to process the papers. She went back with a smile saying HK immigration was really considerate based on HER EXPERIENCE. Secondly we can not really complain because a HKSAR national needs to que up twice at the Indian consulate to get his/her visa for India and there are usually screaming matches at the consulate due to ineffecient staff, besides the waiting and paperwork needed.
As far as other caucasian nationalities go, I agree that they do not put up with so much profiling when they first arrive as its a case of statistics. I only knew of caucasians coming to work here as English teachers in the old days. The number of whites for instance getting work illegally is far less than those from Asian countries here. So the screening is probably on a pro rata basis.
To be fair see the other side of the coin. This is reverse racism. I have never been stopped by any cops on the street for an ID check. BECAUSE I AM NOT CHINESE. If you are a young Chinese with a rucksack and spiky hair, cHances are you will get pulled up. If you are a middle aged Chinese dressed in scruffy clothes they probably think you are an illegal from the mainland working in the construction industry. SO they will ask for an ID check. The locals can also scream sqying they are being picked up and embarassed on the streets in their own backyard.
Having met with many would be immigrants in my line of work I have had a real education over the past 6 months. As a would be employer of contract labourers I would not know the authenticity of an ID. Sadly many workers get fake ones from CHina for 15000 HKD. apparently the cops can only tell its a fake at night due to some security features. SO there are many facets to the problems the police and immigration deal with here, most of which we do not come across on a day to day basis. By and large we live in a city where rule of law prevails. There will be cases of isolated exceptions but their percentage is relatively small. If you compare us to say Singapore remember that we are 3 times their population.
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Dear Jushayward
I don't expect anything. I was asked to post a question by a friend of the prospective employer because at the time I had access to a computer and they did not. The helper who answered the phone when immigration called was naive / stupid / taken by surprise ... whatever. I thought that much was obvious. We were simply trying to find out if there was any procedure we could follow in order to appeal the decision of the immigration officer. This simple question has resulted in a couple of helpful answers and an awful lot of rants -- as well as some rather ugly gloating.
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Quote from Chardson - "I'll tell you what, help us get rid of the corrupt people in the gov't and ....DH's." what a joke!!! the most hilarious comment of the year...Why shoud/would people help u get rid of your own government???
another quote : "True Wizbang, but i want to let you know that after the end of the day they're simply trying to earn a living, because our Government isn't at all effective on what it has been doing..."
At the end of the day, if you break the law, you break the law, it doesn't matter why u do it, aren't we all are trying to earn a living everyday so this is not a very wise comment...
I totally agreed with comments from Wiz bang and vak, and thank you Vak for being objective, our government, comparing to most Asian countries, is efficient and courteous. I remembered when I last visited Philippines, you won't believe the long queue in front of the immigration, it takes an hour for me to get through the immigration and another 40 minutes to collect my baggage. Not to mention the immigration hall is hot and stuffy... Singapore is another city I found very efficient...
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and do you want to know another fact (specially directed to chardson)
there are filipinos hired by gangs and sent to hong kong in the guise of shoppers to mug and rob people specially in areas as causeway bay and tst shopping areas.
their favorite targets are tourists and people who seem to be easy prey ... specially shoppers from the Philippines...
and also there are a lot of women trafficked into hong kong or via hong kong from different countries including the philippines.
http://www.newsbreak.com.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3727&Itemid=88889066
"Every now and then, a plane unloads an often unnoticed batch of desperate Filipino women, who disguise themselves as tourists down to the cheap sunglasses and padded shopping wallets, but who end up in Hong Kong's sleazy underworld as pick-up girls in bars and discos."
with statistics stating more than 1.2 million undocumented filipinos since 2004 (the number could have risen by now), wouldn't this ring out alarm bells to immigration anywhere in the world to closely monitor and scrutinize anyone coming in to their ports with a filipino passport?
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