Posted by
inkonkoni
18 yrs ago
So much bad stuff has been written here about the follies of Domestic Helpers, I'd like to tell you about the good stuff...
Like the time my DH spent her day off trying to fix a mix up with a tailor. I didn't ask her. I didn't even know she had done it. She knew I needed the clothes on the Monday, so she went to see him on the Sunday to try to arrange that. She also got up at the crack of dawn on Monday to fetch the clothes. I only found out about this much later.
Also if I am sick she will not go out on her day off. That is entirely her choice, but she refuses.
She's looking forward to me going away on holiday so that she can spring clean the entire flat and not have to step around me.
And she really does make the best cup of coffee.
I bought a little sewing machine which she taught herself to use and gamely works on projects for me.
She uses her savvy to save me money. When I needed a lot of photostatting done she went around the building borrowing everyone's card so that I could get some of it done at the building's centre (they allow a certain number of free photostats a day, per flat).
And she never complains. We went shopping the other day, she ended up carrying stuff like a pack horse, and did it all with a smile.
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Wish I knew where you both lived so I could try and poach your helpers....
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Ditto! Although I have high hopes for my new one!!!!
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I wish I could post something nice here about my helper too; unfortunately I am not having much luck in getting a good helper... =(
Good help is hard to find..
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Unfortunately, this is not about my DH, but my next door neighbour's one. I have been without a helper for 5 months (new one starting soon). My next door neighbour is never around. His helper has always been really sweet to my children when we are playing in the garden etc. She offered on a number of occassions to give me a hand, making it crystal clear that she is well paid but has little to do and would not expect to be paid by me. Another day, she mentioned that she had never seen me go out at night (she and the other helpers in our street chat outside her house every night) and thought I deserved some time with my husband, again offering to babysit for no pay. I politely declined these offers (I have an agency doing part time cleaning and would never have anyone babysit unless I knew them really well), but I thought it was extremely kind and thoughtful for her to have offered.
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Miss P, my helper who was deported is like that. She knew everything about stuff in HK. She even made furniture for her previous employer, really loved looking after plants and pets, and went all out in the cooking department. She knew where to get the best things, took care of her own visa renewal, was an absolute charm when my family came to stay.
I wish I could find someone to take her on again in HK. The problem is I have a helper now, and I can't fire her just because the first one might be allowed to return.
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ShazP
18 yrs ago
You'll have been really lucky.
All this sounds so weird to me....unbelievable....wonderful.
My present one has made me feel that al PH DH's are horrible & never to be trusted. I am not racist but my DH has made me decide that!
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Miss P:
Just to save inkonkoni typing it all again....
Helper deported, what to do?
Posted by inkonkoni (202 days ago)
[ Quote ]
My helper who had been with me for over a year, was stopped while exiting the country last Xmas. Some eight years previously she had used a false passport as the agency here had lost hers and talked her into using a false one so she could remain to work and pay off her debt to them. She was duely taken to court, told not to make a fuss, admitted her error, was sentenced to 6month's in prison. During that time I visited her and wrote to her and waited for her release. I had to provide an affidavit saying I would employ her once she was released, which, as she was a great DH, I gladly did. We were both shocked to discover that she was to be deported and there was nothing we could do about it because now she was considered a "criminal". She had to go back home where she is trying to avoid a forced marriage, is penniless, and her family who was depending on her income is suffering. No amount of letters to the secretary for security have helped, as the bottom line is that she is a "criminal".
In fact she is not. She made a mistake, she took bad advice. She is honest, hard working and we are good friends. She even has commendations from the governments of other countries where she worked before, for her charity work. Honestly, I can't afford a protracted legal battle. But I would pay for someone to go over the facts of the case to let me know if there is any sort of chance. Is there anything anyone can suggest?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
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Thanks Burgundy
Yes I agree jbebe, when there is actually a crime. I believe instead that she was the victim of a crime. It's interesting to note how swift and harsh the justice was, considering no one was actually hurt, when in the money lending case... hmmm... a lot of feet dragging.
I often wonder what the point was in getting me to write letters assuring the powers that be that I would in fact rehire her, and i had not hired anyone in the interim, and at the end of the day...that all counted for nothing.
I have heard that now she can return on a holiday visa, so hopefully she will come back to spend a few days with me in December, and then after that she might be allowed to work here again if she can find an employer.
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If she was such a great DH, then there should be PLENTY of willing employers. She could post her details here etc.
I am surprised that she will be allowed back in having been deported though. Whatever the circumstances that led to it, passport fraud is a major crime. If I got caught doing it, I would be thrown into jail in a second, it is not just that they are being unduly strict because she's a DH.
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Dora, that's like saying "theft" is a serious crime. Yes it is when millions are taken, or whatever... it's not when a hungry man steals a loaf of bread. What she did was because she didn't know any better and was trapped.
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So she had never heard of the Philippine consulate then?
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I'm not getting into this with you. It's completely pointless.
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Fair enough! I have since read the other 2 threads on it and can understand, given your special relationship with her why your judgement might be clouded.
All I am saying is that she should obviously check that immigration will allow her back in before you spend any money on her flight in December. Regardless of her reasons, the authority see it as a serious crime, you do not want to raise your hopes or hers to have her turned back at the airport.
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Sorry, Miss P; go ahead inkonkini - spend the money, get all excited about the reunion, don't check the fine details like immimgration policy! Don't manage your expectations. Assume that the authorities will give her full credit for her undisputed hard work, and take pity on her situation at home. And back in the real world......
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It does not matter at all. What Immigration think will matter though, like it or not. I was genuinely suggesting that she contact the relevant authorities to check that her old DH can make the trip, before getting a job set up for her etc. As I said above, she sounds like an incredible helper, finding an employer should not be a problem, but getting into the country might be.
Back on the thread, if that's OK; it was my next door neighbour's son's birthday yesterday. His ex-helper gave him a beautifully wrapped present, with a toy phone in it. It probably cost about $25, but it was the best present that he was given all day. This little guy is obsessed with mobile phones (and has destroyed 3 of his mother's ones) and what is more, it had his favourite tv character on it. What impressed me was not just that she remembered the birthday of the son of an employer who had sacked her, it was the amount of thought that she had put into the gift, the $25 out of her pocket was on a par with the $000's that his parents spent, but won a lot more smiles from a little guy.
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Nasty insinuation? Was just responding to inkonkini's posting on the same topic elsewhere (legal and this forum a few months ago). There was nothing nasty about it, they are consenting adults. If they believed that she had 'other motives' in defending her DH, it may not have helped her original case.
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sagwa
18 yrs ago
Dora the Explorer & jbebeb ruined this thread which was started nice.
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zalca
18 yrs ago
i think you should agree to disagree on this one guys...
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have to agree with jbebeb; he and Dora were just adding some practical notes. It was Miss P and Barbara30 who dragged it down. Some of you have to realise that being realistic does not mean being inhumane, just that some of us are 'once bitten, twice shy'. Have noticed that neither barbara30 nor saqwa have added any nice stories. So I am adding a second one:
I lost count of the number of helpers that we interviewed. We were about to give up and stick with part-time agencies when we met this wonderful woman by whom we both were instantly won over. She was calm and charming, a natural with the children and our gut feel was to OFFER HER A JOB NOW!!! We spoke to her employer who confirmed everything, so we offered to double her salary. She called us back the next day to say that she would hate to offend us but that she met a single mother who desperately needed help. She said that she she could see that we had managed well without a helper for months and wanted to feel like she was making a real difference to a family. We were devasted but respected her choice. I said that we would obviously pay her more if that was an issue, but shesaid that the other lady could only pay minimum wage, so it was nothing to do with money - she just wanted to feel needed.
Although we lost out, I could not but be impressed by her decision. I just hope that her new employer is treating her with the respect that she deserves!
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sagwa
18 yrs ago
My experiences with my past DHs are not suitable in this thread, which why i was looking for nice stories. At least to lessen the dis-appointment and hatred.
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Dora... I don't know where you got the impression that there is anything other than friendship between myself and my helper but I can assure you you are mistaken. The same insinuation was made by the "gentlemen" at the prison which really ticked me off.
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The reason I'm not interested in "getting into it" on this thread, or anywhere else at all, is that it is a waste of time. What is done is done and no amount of discussion is going to change it. I trust her enough to realise that if there had been another option she would have taken it. Why, if it were as simple as everyone makes it out to be, do you think she didn't? Do you think she just felt like cheating for the sake of it?
I suspect that she believed or was led to believe that to get a new passport would mean she would have to return home and as she had just started working here, she would lose her job and end up owing the agency a lot of money. Whether or not that is the case, whether or not she could have stayed and got a new passport, I don't know. Suffice it to say that she's an honest and sensible woman and I don't think she would have lightly done something like this.
As for it being a serious crime, cry me a river. she didn't hurt anyone. It was not as if she was here under false pretences. It was not theft or murder or robbery or anything like that. Who got hurt hmmm? why is it such a serious darn crime if someone doesn't match their passport?
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I agree. Frankly, there are so many bad things going on here that the authorities ignore completely (husbands beating their wives? Family matter. Parents beating (and often subsequently killing) thier children? Family matter) - but you just look on the streets - hordes of police checking ID cards. Fantastic - that makes the city a better place. And the sad thing is that people here honestly believe that the biggest threat to their security is illegal immigrants. This is why you get such a reaction to this story - using a false passport is obviously one of the more terrible crimes someone could commit. Please.
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Inkonkini, must say that when I read your thread, I thought that you were very clear that there was more than a friendship. I asked my wife to read it and she did too. The relevance is that, as you said, the prison officer drew the same conclusion, he was proably not the only one. It may be the reason why they deported her, in spite of the deal that they made about the prison sentence. They will never admit to that of course.
Your helpers passport fraud was treated seriously though because it is the type of activity that facilitates people trafficking and is used by money launderers, drug cartels etc. About 15 years ago, I had just started worknin London, my flatmate borrowed by coat wile going on a business trip (his was being cleaned). He was arrested at Heathrow when he handed over his passport and boarding pass. Turned out that my passport was in my pocket at the time and he mistakenly handed over mine instead of his. Needless to say, he missed his flight, and had a lot of explaining to do. Luckily, they eventually understood that it was a genuine mistake and did not put him through the ordeal that your helper endured. They did, however, give him a long lecture on the type of crime that is facilitated by passport fraud, at the end of which he understood the reaction. It was scary stuff.
Now my good helper story: We are new to Hong Kong, so do not have a lot of helper experience or many stories. This may not seem like a big deal to most, but I was overseas last week when my wife was violently ill. Our helper managed to get our toddler to sleep so that my wife could have a chance of some rest. Now it was a huge thing for us, because nobody apart from my wife has ever managed that (I have been a total failure). To know that Conor was relaxed, helped my wife to recover. Cannot put a price on that!
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geiboyi,
Where are these "hordes of police checking ID cards"?
I have lived here for more than a decade in three different districts and have never been checked. My wife (different race, in case that makes a difference) has lived here for more than three decades and has also never been checked. My secretary (another race) has also never been checked. Given these experiences, HK ID checks hardly seem to be intolerable.
I imagine these "hordes" you see (but which I don't) are strategically placed based on intelligence. I can't see why anyone (other than criminals or someone who bears an unfortunate resemblance to a suspect) would object to that.
As for crime inside the home, it is desperately hard to prove in ANY society. And if you make it too easy to "prove", it is easy for one party (or a third party) to frame an individual they want out of the equation.
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First of all, let me say that just because two people care about each other very deeply does not mean that there needs to be anything "else" involved, and I think it a really sad indictment on people who think that is the case.
Second, I do understand the reason for passports and laws etc. However, if we can go back to the "loaf of bread" analogy, she was not trafficked, she was not a drug dealer and she was not a criminal or terrorist. The reaction to the facts of the case were completely overboard. It reminds me of the case of one of the detainees in Guantanamo... he was wearing a casio watch, the watch apparently preferred by terrorists, ergo...he must be a terrorist.
Back to my GH story... my new one is looking after my home when I'm away and has set up her cam so that I can check on my pooch. Sadly though, she's bored out of her mind.
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bw
18 yrs ago
whoever - I've lived in HK for nearly 7 years. Have seen lots of cops checking IDs near where I live (kowloon). Their target seemed to be mainlanders and domestic helpers. I doubt there was any "intelligence" involved. I never got stopped by them for an ID check though.
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whoever - I've also been here more than a decade and have had my ID card checked plenty of times. Perhaps you, your wife and your secretary live/work somewhere the police stay well away from. I live on an island where the police (and yes, in hordes, not in ones or twos)stand outside the ferry piers every evening after a certain time and randomly (I can't see a lot of intelligence being used) stop passengers. At least every other day I see people in Central MTR station being stopped, and about as often in TST where I work. Of course if you live on the Peak and drive to work in Pacific Place (only examples here, no need to argue) then of course you're less likely to be stopped.
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OMG! god forbid it if anyone said anything good about FDH's in this forum!!!
anything nice thats being said about fdh's is automatically ripped apart..
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Um about stealing a loaf of bread? Ask the baker what the crime is. About id checks happens all the time in midlevels I watch from my shop and see even my staff stopped regularly. I have also been stopped but very rarely. They do some profiling I am pretty sure.
My first DH was fantastic with our Labrador. She loved that dog and it meant a lot to us that she did...we were really quite sorry that through our own mismanagement in the first place (being too kind and friendly and not employer enough) we could.'t see our way to a third contract. She was also (so far) the best worker we had...but she got quite a chip on her shoulder in the last year or so...too bad really.
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Where are the good helper stories? I realise that many people have left for the summer, but in 47 replies, only 7 are good DH stories. barbara 30, no you did not drag it down, but you did drag it out. Insisting on arguing with people rather than contributing a story. Like I said, I drew the same assumptions when I read the original thread 6 months or so ago. I thought that Inkonkini was explicit in saying that they were more than friends and that made it relevant. If you have issues with such relationships, please take them to another forum. Can you find it within yourself to believe that people can be well meaning, even if you disagree with them? Miss P, your rude comments about sense of humour labotamies are hardly a help either. Deportation is hardly a humourous subject.
Inkonkini, might I suggest that you restart the thread with just stories. You must confess that introducing controversial information like deportation, you let the floodgates open. I would suggest that you take Dora's advice though, and do your checks with immigration before booking tickets and helping your former DH to ind a job. Please can everyone else cut and paste their stories in the new thread, if started.
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Jebebe... I love the way you tackle this like it's the mystery of the century. It really isn't all that strange. She felt that without a passport she would be thrown out. She felt that if she went to get a new passport she would have to leave the country and thus lose her job. She was already in debt to the agency. So in her mind she had very little choice. But please, go on believing that she's Jack the Ripper in disguise.
Chefcrsh...most people understand that if a person is starving and they steal a loaf of bread it's forgiveable. Try a dose of compassion once in a while.
South Side, yes, I might just do this when I get back.
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TC
18 yrs ago
mummybee,
It's the bad things in life that make the best news! That's why you hear far more horror stories than you do good, although I'm also fairly convinced that there are far more 'bad' helpers out there than there are good. I don't think there's any set pattern to where or how you get a good helper - it's the luck of the draw. But you can certainly help matters by stringent interviewing, a trial day (if the helper is already in HK), setting down the house rules right from Day 1, ensuring adherence to same, and being fair as you would want your own employer to be fair to you. In many ways at the interview process you will know whether there's something you feel uncomfortable with - reject those straight away else whatever it is will come back to bite you soon enough. Don't compromise. Any delay will be well worth it when you end up with a 'good' helper. Good luck!
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Trials are actually illegal, FDHs are not supposed to start work, paid or unpaid, until they get their working visas. So employers are employing them illegally. Both parties committing an offense.
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cab
18 yrs ago
This is almost as bad as the 'bad dh thread'.
Am losing all faith in finding a trustworthy person to look after my little one. Any nore good stories???
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TC
18 yrs ago
hydrangea,
You're absolutely right, but I have it on direct authority from the ID that they turn a blind eye to the practice provided that it's reasonable in terms of a genuine attempt to assess a prospective helper (as opposed to a blatant way of getting part-time work done).
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Mummybee,
I posted 2 of the 'good DH' stories, but unfortunately neither of them were about my own helper, so cannot offer any pearls of wisdom, sorry!
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this site has loads of prospective helpers putting up their adverts, go through them and then while their employers are still in the country, get references. That's about the best you can do.
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Taps
18 yrs ago
Wonder if any DH read this site, it'll be interesting to know their version. Or maybe they can learn something to improve their work.
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great stuff. Hope all goes well with birth II
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My helper is great too. Great attitude, good cook loves my son and my son loves her, we both treat each other with the utmost respect.....she'll be missed as she is leaving soon to get married.
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My new helper (second attempt) is a real star!!! All I had hoped for is someone who would do a thorough clean of the house and do the odd bit of babysitting when we try to grab a meal together. Instead I got an amazing housekeeper, a fantastic cook, an incredible attitude, oodles of common sense! The children adore her, she seems to be totally trustworthy and always has a smile on her face. I never dreamt of I finding anyone like this, now I feel totally spoilt. Hopefully, for her sake, she will have enough money to move home at some point soon, but we will struggle to ever replace her!
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Z
18 yrs ago
Not in HK, but when we hired our DH in Shanghai we interviewed a half-dozen or so before settling on her. It was the first (and last -- she is still with us) time that we had hired DH, so we weren't sure what we were doing -- we were willing to hire somebody FT (M-F 8hrs/day), and to provide housing, but she listened to what we needed done and told us not to be absurd, that what we wanted done wouldn't really take that long to do (daily shopping, cooking, laundry, ironing, cleaning incl. kitchen and bathrooms, chat with me when she had time as I was trying to learn Mandarin). After we interviewed her, we wanted to hire her immediately because she seemed to enjoy her job and because she came off so professionally, so we asked her to bid for the job, and since her price seemed reasonable, we agreed, and she agreed to come by the next day to go shopping with me for the supplies that she would need. She had brought an acquaintance along to help translate who happened to be a Mandarin teacher, and while we were talking about Mandarin lessons with this acquaintance, she immediately started tidying up (it turned out that her standards are higher than mine, as I had already tidied up in anticipation of having strangers in the house) and checking to determine what we would need to buy the next day.
The next week, it seemed like we had hit the jackpot. She was introducing us to all sorts of delicious foods that we had never seen before, the house was clean, she was proactive about finding stuff to do...
The week after that, she called to say that she was very sorry, but could she take a couple of days off as her child was sick. I told her that family was the most important thing, so take care of him, but inside I felt disappointed and wondered if it was the beginning of a bad situation....
However, after a couple of months, I was sure that it was only bad luck as she had immediately returned to her amazing ways once the crisis was over! Hooray! Also, we felt like she had underbid for the job, so we increased her pay by 25%. Now FF 6 months ... I am starting to be able to understand Mandarin (lots of thanks to her as she would very patiently wait for me to look up key words in the dictionary, leave me notes in Chinese characters and pinyin so that I could figure them out slowly, talked to me every day and encouraged my studying), she told me that she was very thankful that I had trusted her when her kid was sick right at the beginning of our relationship instead of getting mad and firing her right away. I just told her that I felt lucky to have found her, and that everyone meets bad luck sometime, and that I was also very thankful that I had trusted that she was the person she seemed to be when we met.
Now, I am very protective of her, and often help prescreen potential clients and help with translation, either by phone or occasionally in person. She is even more protective of us -- invites us over to her house for special meals on the weekend, helped us find a new apartment, helped me navigate the Chinese hospital system after I got pregnant and had a horrible experience at one of the most famous Western JV hospitals, and offered to help me find someone to help after the baby was born (unfortunately it looks like we'll be moving to HK soon after, so I won't be able to take her up on that).
Now after too long a brag session about how good she is, I'll give you my advice on hiring somebody good --
1. Decide what you are looking for ahead of time and discuss it with the candidate before hiring them.
2. Trust your instincts about people. You will probably pick up on subtle clues right away.
3. Assume that they are professionals: ask for their input, and when their preferred method is different from yours, ask yourself to honestly assess whether or not it matters. Sometimes it does (i.e. hygenic food prep), but maybe sometimes it does not, and when it doesn't, why not try it their way? It's probably a good idea to talk about this stuff in an initial interview.
4. Remember that everyone is happiest when they feel like they are in control of their own destiny. One of the most important things that my DH wanted (and she said so straight away) is to be able to come on her own schedule and go when the work is done. She works part time for several people, many of them only a couple of days a week; this allows her to plan her day with geographic rationality, take on more clients and make more money.
5. Look for somebody that you think you get along cooperatively with, especially if you will spend lots of time overlapping with them at home.
6. Don't forget to praise the good stuff.
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