Helper wants 3 weeks holiday & flights??

Hi everyone

I am looking for advice here. My helper has just asked for 3 weeks paid holiday and cost of return flight (expensive in March when she wants to go). So she can go back to Manila see her daughter graduate, do family stuff and she says to take care of things to do with the house she owns there. To give you the full picture, the deal she is on etc...

She is paid over $5k plus generous food allowance. She is very experienced and a good cook. She has been with us for 5 months. We have no kids, no pets, no car, often away on business/pleasure. I do not work and am tidy at home etc. Basically it's an easy job and she gets evenings off after serving up dinner, nearly always Fri or Sat night or both as well as Sunday of course. Every afternoon she has a few hours off, has a long sleep etc. I let her manage her own time so she can come and go as she wants. I let her daughter come and stay for 3 weeks over Christmas with her in our apartment. She goes to her room very often during the day so she can skype her daughter and be a mother to her every day. I am OK with this as I think family is important. Generous gifts and extras. Have put up a shelf and nice extra furniture etc. in her room. Given her a DVD player to use and she has a TV and laptop already. I turn a blind eye to her taking 5 hours or more sometimes when she goes shopping. I know she meets her friends etc but that's ok as long as she gets the job done. I sometimes have to remind her to do jobs but mostly she is great at keeping our house clean, doing the laundry and cooking delicious food. She is very trustworthy.

So we have already given her 4 weeks PAID holiday off in the 5 months she has been with us, on top of all the statutory ones and Sundays. We are about to go away again and she will get another 2 weeks towards end of Feb paid holiday. We gave her some nice gifts but not money at Christmas. We planned on giving her $3k bonus for CNY next month.

I was initially put out when she came to me as she did not even ask me. She just said "I need to go to Manila in March to go to my daughters graduation. I want to take my 7 days paid holiday I am due for this year plus have another two weeks to take care of my land title for my house etc. Also I am due a flight per year so will you pay for my ticket to Manila too. And I have not had a holiday for 3 years." She said it is getting expensive in March as so many are going home for this reason.

I immediately but politely set her straight that she is not legally due 7 days holiday until after completion of 12 months service. Also this should be at a time MUTUALLY convenient to both parties, not just her. I also said we have given her lots of time off and holidays. She she no, she had no choice about that and it does not count. I said yes I know, but nevertheless we have been very generous with time off for her already.

I also said though that I thought it WAS important she see her daughter graduate and that I would think about it and speak to my other half and get back to her. But then we have already let her daughter stay here for 3 weeks. I also pointed out that she should not TELL me that she is taking 3 weeks off and that the flight should be paid for. I told her she should ASK me, not tell me something like this.

I also jsut checked and she is not right to say I owe her one flight per year. When I thought about it it is one flight to get her here (taken care of by her previous employer in Singapore) and then one way flight back to the Philippines or wherever at END of the contract/termination. No requirements on employers to pay for flights every year is there? I believe it's at my discretion if I want to as a 'bonus'.


I am unsure whether I should give any ground here at all as I feel we are already quite generous? However it would be unfair not to see her daughter graduate university it's a special day. So I am inclined to give her a week off so she can see her graduate but no more. We need her here working for us as we have commitments etc. I have a back problem and so would need to pay a maid service to clean on top of paying my helpers wages while she is away. So should I give her the $3k bonus and tell her she should pay for her flight herself out of that? I do not see why we should give her another 2 weeks on top of the one week, which should be fine for a one day graduation and tie up loose ends at home? If we gave her 3 weeks, that would mean that out of a period of 6 months since starting with us, she would be getting NINE weeks holiday in total paid by us!! I know she has not CHOSEN most of this holiday as such, but still. I think giving her a paid week off for the graduation on top of the 6 weeks paid we have given her would be considered generous? Also, if we give her the $3k bonus we planned on top of her normal wages that should be plenty enough to cover her flights and costs.


Am I being too generous or not generous enough if I take this position. What do people think?


Thanks in advance

Yes you are being too generous. I wish I can find an employer as generous as you are and I will not take advantage of it.

Who is the Boss here, you or your helper! Sorry but she is walking all over you and does not respect you as an employer. In the days when you worked would you have taken advantage of your employer in this way, and would your employer have been so generous, I don't think so.

If you do not want these demands to escalate, which they will do, stop now, and lay down some house rules, write them down and give her a copy, she has to respect you as a fair employer, then watch her bahaviour, she will either improve, or become difficult.

Your maid is not entitled to any flight home until the end of her contract, and as she already has had 4 weeks paid holiday, she is not entitled to any holidays anyway.

If she becomes difficult just dismiss her and get a legal part-time maid, who will do as much work as she does, in less time, plus you won't have to worry about contracts and holiday pay etc.

Sounds like you have set yourself up here ..backtracking to more normal helper conditions is going to be tricky....If she quits..well, next.... there are hundreds of over generous Western employers in HK who have learned this with their first time helper... including me!

Well, she asked nicely didn't she? You can say NO nicely too.

Honestly, get rid of her ! She will only bring you troubles. How can she dare to ask you for this ? This is completly beyond reason.

You will have no problem to find a more reliable and hardworking helper, believe me !

Don't lose your time... and your money !!!

Hi everyone

Update for you. I spoke to my helper today to tell her my answer. Before we even started she asked for an advance on her wages which she has never done before. She wanted to argue when I said she is not entitled to 7 days holiday yet and not entitled to any flights paid by us until the end of her contract. I was nice but firm and said 'this is the law and this is your contract with us'. Then I said don't argue already, you need to listen to what I am saying because I have a compromise here that you should be happy with.


I said we would give her 7 days holiday paid to go and see her daughter graduate, see her family etc. I also gave her her lai see CNY bonus $3000 cash in advance today and said this is for doing a good job for us, thankyou, and it will cover your flight home, expenses plus some still left over. She just took it out of my hand with no acknowledgement or thankyou! I was pretty upset and could not believe this. So I just said you are supposed to say thankyou when someone gives you a gift, especially when it is a lot of money. She knows this already. So she kind of said thankyou. I felt like taking it back as she was not grateful at ALL. Wow.


She then said one week holiday is no good, not enough she must go home for at least two weeks. I said no, she cannot, we are already being very generous. So then she said it's not right, she should get more, she has never had this problem with getting holiday before from her employers. (This has to be rubbish but it's clear she is getting desperate to get more out of me). But at the same time she said again she has not been home for 3 years, she really needs a holiday and break etc!! I pointed out this is her choice she could have gone home before starting with us, she has enough money and holiday from her previous employer for sure! Also in the time she has worked with us between Sept last year and this coming Feb she will be getting SIX weeks paid 'holiday' from us already. i.e. where she is at our home with no work to do while we are away. She does not need a break or a holiday - that's more than most people get in a year! Oh and she has had all the Chinese public holidays on TOP of that. She could have gone home then and we would not mind. She works short hours for us and gets to have an afternoon sleep etc. every day. So I am firm but nice about this and say again that she needs to understand we are already being very generous to give her a paid week off when she is not due it, plus nice bonus early to cover flights, and other costs. Clearly she does not agree but does not know what else to say. So she starts crying, floods of tears and then says her father is bed ridden and she does not know when he is going to die. If that's true why did she not say that straight away when she first asked?? So now I feel bad, but also I think she is really trying it on now and I really don't believe her. But who knows for sure? I tell her I do not like to see her upset and I am sorry her father is old and infirm. I then say that now she can go and see him as we have given her this extra week of holiday pay as well as the time off and money. So I try and make her be positive and say that not only can she see her daughter graduate but she can also spend time with her father. She is still not happy with me. I point out gently but firmly that most employers would not be this generous and that she is being ungrateful. There is not much she can say to this and the conversation ends there...


Will let you know if there are any developments, but my goodwill is very very thin now...if she can be this demanding and ungrateful (and maybe even downright deceitful?) then can I trust her. I deliberately have given her much trust, leeway and 'self determination' to make sure there is genuine goodwill from her, so she WANTS to work for us and be good at her job. This feels like she is throwing that goodwill back in face. ESPECIALLY since she just took the $3k out of my hand without a word and turned away. That really crossed the line for me...

frankly she is still playing you. the fact that you feel guilty when she came up with the story of her (infirm but not dead) father is a clear sign.


next thing you know, her father will die and she will ask to come back one week later. . .


frankly i would not have given her the 3000 and first ask her to accept the reality of the law. once that is done and she is accepting, then a next step in the negotiation is coming forward.


in your current position now, i would let her go

Sorry, but she has and is still manipulating you left, right and centre. You should really watch out, she will probably take more leave anyway than she is supposed to. Now the story she has added about her father all of a sudden! well yes it could be true or more fabrication? me thinks she is well used to manipulating people, probably been here long enough to learn from other trouble causing DH's from a certain country. I'm afraid if she would have been my DH, she would have already crossed the 'firing line'. You have given this lady an inch and she has taken a mile!

I think this helper is causing too much trouble. Perhaps you should take the opportunity to search for a replacement while she's on holiday.


Our helper wants time off as well for graduation. That's fine for us. We just explained to her that we will give one week PAID, and the rest is unpaid leave. She can go for up to 2-3 weeks, but she knows it's with no pay.


Also, $3K for bonus! You are very good employers and she's not being grateful at all - this is a worrying sign.

Assuming that she last long enough to still be with you in March ( I suspect that now she has had the 3k bonus up front she will become even worse) you should prepare a letter before she goes on her paid leave to

a) confirm that this is her 7 days paid leave being taken in advance, and

b) failure to return to work on time will result in dissmissal without notice.

Then get her to sign it.


Otherwise either

a) her father will "die"

b) there is no transport available back for another week

c) she needs to stay to renew her visa/passport

the list is endless


Good luck. It would appear that you have been uber-generous to date to a rather ungrateful employee.

Get rid of her... problems galore will occur for the next year and a half. It is unfortunate that one can only learn from these experiences after going through them. Remember, YOU are the employer... and don't be so nice next time!

I wouldn't keep her if I were you. You sound like a dream employer with an unappreciative DH. And perhaps next time you can dole out the niceness in small parcels rather than all in the beginning. For your next helper, ALWAYS do reference checks on the phone with the previous employer.

Well the latest is that my helper has now 'gone back to normal' and stopped all this nonsense. I was very very surprised and sad she had so dramatically changed from the trustworthy,fair and sensible person I had thought she was. So I can ignore one (very) bad day - if it doesn't happen again.


Appears to have accepted my no means no, and she is doing her work well and not complaining. Even cooked me some special lovely food from her own pocket that night so I think it was her way of making up. Hurrah! So I had taken the moral high ground and continued to treat her with respect and politeness i.e. normal as if this hadn't happened. After I had laid down the law and not given in. To fire her would be crazy and unfair for one day of bad behaviour when she has been a fantastic helper for 5 months till now. Gosh everyone deserves a second chance and we would lose out as much as her if we just got rid of her. She is back to her responsible self. She has booked her flight out of the lai see I gave her. Any sign of this stuff again or demanding/unreasonable behaviour and I will give her a very clear written warning. i.e. if it happens again she is out of the door.


Before we employed her we flew to Singapore to meet her employers of the last seven years. We 'interviewed' them before we even met our helper. You could never get a more fantastic and glowing reference. She was a part of their family basically and I am pretty sure she was spoilt over time. So she was very lucky then and is now with us! Her employers interviewed US at the same time to see if WE were suitable to have their wonderful helper. I even tested her on difficult cooking techniques to see if she was the wonderful cook they claimed. She was, and never fails to deliver amazing food to our table.


So I will continue to put my faith in her and am very happy with how I handled it actually. A very sincere thanks for everyone's advice which definitely helped me to crystalise what was the right position for me personally to take and how to deal with this. It's up to her if she blows it or not now. But to not give her another chance would be very unfair and hasty. Some of you guys must have been bitten really badly in life to write someone off so fast and be SO sure she will only get worse. It's quite possible of course she will do it again but it's a risk I am absolutely prepared to take or we might as well give up ALL faith in human nature now and become hermits. That's not my path.


I would rather be a trusting optimist that might occasionally get screwed over rather than a hard hearted cynic that closes the door too soon all the time and misses the really good stuff! Thus far in my life I have gained (and hopefully given) more joy and love and happiness this way.

Congratulations Dude-ette, it's great that this issue is resolved. It might have been wrong expectations of the helper too. After all she's a newbie here in Hong Kong.

So, in summary,


Your maid makes all types of threats, is rude to you, lies to you, complains, is ungrateful and makes all types of demands of you and expects you to fulfil all her desires.


You give her an extra 7 days of holidays and $3000 all because she had a bad day.


I might try this with my employer, every now and then- make all types of demands and stamp my feet and ask for more money and then see what happens. I think I know where I will be after all of this but I could try... you will probably see me at the airport though.

So Dude-ette, do you have a plan in case your helper suddenly contacts you while in the Philippines to say she will need to extend her holiday?

Sounds like an opportunist to me... you should not let someone pull the strings like she does. And she seems to be in total control (and being paid very well for it as well!)

"I would rather be a trusting optimist that might occasionally get screwed over rather than a hard hearted cynic that closes the door too soon all the time and misses the really good stuff! Thus far in my life I have gained (and hopefully given) more joy and love and happiness this way".


Yes, I was like that right up until the day my ex maid stole all my jewelry that I inherited from my mother.


Call me a hard hearted cynic but I think that you are way too generous and you are seriously going to be run rings round by your shrewd maid. At the end of the day you didn't win the argument. She got to go home with $3000 bucks in her hand. Truly putting your foot down would have been a NO alround.


"I would rather be a trusting optimist that might occasionally get screwed over".

I've been on both sides of the fence. When I was younger I was a pushover and it made me miserable. Now I am really great at sticking up for myself and saying No. Personally I would much rather be streetwise and assertive and not get screwed over.

Perhaps this is the first time that you have employed a helper in HK ( I have not read closely all of this thread)

To be frank you have made a mess of things and in doing so not been fair to ether yourself or the helper. I made similar mistakes 30 years with our first helper because of a lack of understanding of hoew the system works.

There are standard terms and conditions for helpers (who in HK earn 5 or 6 times more than in their own countries and as the cost of living is much less in their home countries they do very well on the standard package) Your helper is your employee not your friend and the mantra must be kind but firm and a line must be drawn so that both parties know where they stand.

Your helper needs to treated like any company junior employee. If you do not spell this out and take firm control from day one the helper will push and push for more and more and become the boss in the relationship. She has nothing to loose and lacks the understanding and social sophistication to realize that she is asking too much. She cannot understand your values and it is unfair of you to put her in a position where nether of you understands the expectations or how the relationship should work day to day.

The helpers standard package is reasonable anything offered above this should be very carefully considered and only given as a reward for exceptional performance.

It was a bad mistake to have the daughter stay in your apartment. Would you have the office junior's mother stay at your home? . The relationship is ruined and although today seem be OK the problems and expectations have not gone away.

There is no real way forward with this helper as to now try to impose 'normal' terms and conditions is not going to be fair or possible.

This may seem a very harsh approach to someone of your generous heart but it a fair one and the only way to have a good working relationship with a new helper. After a few years the relationship matures to one of mutual understanding and the relationship becomes one of mutual understanding and trust.

My maid has been with me for 6 months now and I am happy with the relationship we have. I understand now that having a maid is a continuous work in progress and you have to have a professional relationship. I've realized something. Despite living in your house and being familiar with you, at the end of the day a maid really doesn't give a hoot about your family and it's issues. Ultimately their family's issues and needs come way above anything going on in your life. This may sound harsh, but it's true. At the end of the day I suppose that's how it should be. But that's OK because by seeing this clearly I can treat my maid accordingly - fair yet firm. For example, I waited a long time for my maid to start. She begged and pleaded me to take her even though she needed to go home before she started working for me because she needed to sort out some property paperwork. I was too tired and too pregnant to keep interviewing. Her return home could have waited a few months, but she insisted. In the end she was there for 6 weeks. This may not seem like a big deal BUT before she even booked her ticket I was told by my doc that my baby had a serious problem and had to be delivered by CS at 36 weeks. My baby would probably have to go to ICU. I also had a 3 year old at home and no maid. In the end my baby was fine but I still was here recovering from the C with a 3 year old, a premature baby and my maid didn't start until he was 4 weeks old. Since then I've had 3 requests for advances which I am fine with and recently a request to go home. One of her elderly relatives had died (not a parent) and she needed to go home and she needed money from me. It's at this time that I realized that this relationship is a bit one sided. I told her she can go home, unpaid leave and I am not giving her any money. After 15 years as a maid she should really have a stash to tap into for emergencies. I said no and mean't it. I like my maid. I like her personality and she does a good job. However something I've come to realize is that ultimately they are only interested in their own family and $. You could have all the problems in the world and need her to do X and Y urgently but should her Aunty Betty call up asking her to pass on a message you can be damn sure as mustard which one is the priority. I am OK with this though as it has opened my eyes and I am now happier having a maid around and can manage her better. Now for me the maid is here to do the stuff I don't want to do. She's not my friend, but we get along well.

Dude-ette, you need to make sure you know all the rules regarding having a helper, like the 7 days paid leave per year, if you want to give more then it is up to you, it is not their right.

Also you are only legally required to pay for one flight during the contract, to get her to HK and to return her to country of origin.

Also, the fact that she stayed in HK whilst you went on leave and had nothing to do does not mean she had leave, and should not be used as such.

Agree with other posters, she is an employee, always go by the contract, treat your helper fair and with respect but always remenber that you are the employer.

Angsana and veryoldchinahand, can't agreed with both of you more... basically same happen to me, my maid even get bank holiday off instead of labour holiday off, but when I was sick in bed one sunday, she couldn't/wouldn't stay with me (my ex-husband was on business trip) for one Sunday without off, even I promised her she can be compensated by having next Saturday and Sunday off... i was left with my 2 small children and with a high fever... yes indeed, at the end of the day, the maid is here to do the stuff I don't want or I can't do. She's not my friend, treat them according to the contract and law, nothing more and nothing less.


I hate to say this but some of the employers in HK are far too generous and is making life for other employers difficult. Once I was asked by a maid, why didn't i paid over the agreed contract rate since a lot of westerners are, well, I told her she can quite any time if she found someone who is willing to pay her 5, 6K.... I stick to the law and that it.

Totally agree with veryoldchinahand and angsana.


Helpers love western employers as they feel they are too soft and lenient. We must accept a different culture and mentality. At first, you hear all these stories about Asian employers being too strict and harsh and feel sorry for the helpers but there are definitely two sides to every story.


At the end of the day, westerners tend to be too soft and easily give into demands. I have heard many people mention the same sob stories to get a holiday etc. Don't forget, just like others asking advice on this forum, helpers naturally talk a lot to each other and listen to their friends' advice. Like others have said, they are employees and only really doing the job for money. Like any employee, if the job quality is not up to standard or their attitude upsets you, give them a warning and if there is no improvement, move on and try to find another one. Everyone deserves a second chance but only if they can acknowledge their mistakes.


Asian employers tend to be weary when trusting their helpers (hence, cameras, strict rules etc) whereas western employers tend to be more trusting, but unfortunately, feel let down when the trust has been broken. Trust should really be earned not just given. Equally so, as Angsana mentioned, people find it easy to take and not always be grateful but when the coin is flipped, they may less willing or flexible when giving.


I think the best rules are to be fair but firm. Treat them with respect but if you are not being treated equally with respect, deal with it as quickly as possible. Also they are an employee not a friend - it is more difficult to deal with issues if they see you as a friend. If you do decide to pay more than the minimum wage, why not give it as a regular bonus to act as incentive for them to work and reward for good work.


Also, you cannot always trust great references. If they are so good, why did the previous employers let them go? Was it for an amicable parting of ways to avoid disputes at the labour department? Also if they have been spoilt with generous wages before and lots of holidays etc, you can be damn sure they expect the same in any new job.


Dudette, to be honest, you were off to a bad start when you were being interviewed to see if you would make a good employer. This helper obviously thinks you are extremely lucky to have her (and she doesn't appear to feel that she is fortunate to have you as employer). Most of us have been too liberal and trusting in the past and learnt from our mistakes.

Don't let your helper take advantage of you, once you give her "extra" she will keep toeing the line for more. Sorry to say but it's true. You must try to treat her as an employee and don't let her toy with your emotions. She should consider herself lucky that she's getting over $5000 a month which is PLENTY to support her here and her family home if she is wise with her money. However, many domestic helpers are not wise with their money and then get racked up with debts and loans ...