Posted by
titaed
16 yrs ago
you have to discuss it with her,most employer specially western agree or let their helper stayed out when they have two days off or more although, you said the Labour Dept say's it is illegal for them (but they are entitled 24 hours off.) And maybe she didn't bother to tell you cause she thought you already know that, unless,you haven't told her before not to stay out all night..My friends helper was out sat/sunday as well, so, you should talk to her and tell her that next time if she want to stay the night out she should inform you or ask for permission first so you don't have to worry about her cause she's working for you and your responsibility if anything happened to her pretty sure she'll understand that and it's also one way of a happy working relationship between employer and a helper..
Please support our advertisers:
In my opinion:
- If it's a day off, she can do whatever she likes. Heck, if you helper comes in a four in the morning on a weeknight we don't care as long as she is fit for work the next day.
- In general, I would say that helpers are adults and need to be treated as such. As long as they are fit for work what they do in their own time is their business. I am not our helper's mother and if she wants to party all night she's a big girl and should be able to act responsibly.
Please support our advertisers:
FKKC
16 yrs ago
strawblade,
I've created a thread 'DH staying out on saturday night' a few months back. I've just looked it up and it's on page 15. If you care to look, you will find all kinds of answers there - some of course are hearsay. I had the impression then that the helpers are entitled to live out that night and from what you were told, it's illegal.
So there's this issue on the record to be set straight although I don't have any problem with my helper as she never ask to stay out on her 24 hours of rest.
As to 'how late is late' I guess you should abide to your own house rules and feel comfortable about it and of course within reason.
Please support our advertisers:
That whole "not being allowed to sleep outside the home at all ever" thing sounds a bit iffy to me. There is nothing in the guidebook about it ( http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/ID(E)969.htm ). Not to doubt you Strawblade. It may well be true but it seems weird.
This paragraph seems relevant:
"Live-in requirement
42. Clause 3: The Helper should work and reside in the employer's residence as stated in the contract. "
It doesn't say "every night". I mean according to the law I am resident in my home even though I sometimes spend nights outside it. I don't think there is any doubt a helper is resident in your home even though she sometimes spends a night outside. I really wonder if the law actually states a specific requirement to return home every night, or if it is some unwritten rule with no force of law.
"I'm a stickler for rules. maybe it is my upbringing. I don't want to be held responsible for her not adhering to Labour Laws. I myself do not break any rules.
So how late is late?"
It all starts getting a bit hard to prove. I guess she could come home for half an hour to rest and leave again and she would technically have "sleept at home".
Please support our advertisers:
No doubt Strawblade. No doubt.
However I question that you were given correct information since I can't find any documentation to support the statement. Does anyone know the actual law that is applicable?
Please support our advertisers:
FKKC
16 yrs ago
I did have the feeling that it should be the case of not permitting stay outs but never bother to go about finding the fact. There are also some other issues which I called the 'grey areas' but I always believe employer and helper themselves can work out something agreeable, acceptable & beneficial to both parties.
Glad you put the record straight on this one. Time consuming on your part dealing with government officials. Thanks!
Please support our advertisers:
"If that is the way the Labour Dept. interprets their law, I feel obliged to follow it."
Quite. I just wish I had the actual law in front of me so I could read it for myself. ;)
"If you think I may have been given the wrong info, maybe you could call them yourself & we can compare notes. Its always a different person answering the phone."
I might just do that. Most likely the lady you talked to gave you the correct info though. Seems a bit silly but the law is the law. BTW this sounds like the kind of law that is only enforced if there is actually an issue (for example a helper turning tricks). That way they are sure of nailing her for something, if not her "actual" offense.
Please support our advertisers:
I called the Immigration Department hotline and asked. The guy said that helpers are allowed to leave the home for 24 hours on their day off. He explicitly said that it was all right for her to stay out overnight when I asked him.
He even gave an example:
"Say that Sunday is the day off. She can, for example, leave the home at 9pm on Saturday and not have to return until 9pm on Sunday".
He couldn't tell me what the law actually said though. I'm starting to think that there is nothing in the law beyond the "off for 24 consecutive hours" part.
Please support our advertisers:
We are not talking about just one night, but arrangements for once every week and reading from some posts, saturday & sunday nights are given so common sense tells us that the issue should be clarified before we can honestly deal with the situation.
Of course, some helpers living way out of the city should definitely be given more time (or better & reasonable arrangement/allowance) by their employers like cara yourself as travelling time can take over 2 to 3 hours by public transport , thus subtracting extra hours off their supposedly rest time. Taking taxi as transport would put a burden to their financial situation. Fair? Legal? - different situations are quite difficult to define!
Please support our advertisers:
"Interesting that we have conflicting results. I'll call them again to clarify. What really irks me is that one person says one thing & another says another. They should have in in black & white to avoid confusion. So which version is right?"
It might also be that we asked the question differently. If the person you talked to though, for some reason, that you were asking about live out... I specifically asked about the weekly night/day off.
"the helper could get together with friends, all chip in and rent a hotel room for hte night if they wanted, you'd think....they technically still live at your house (obviously one night out does NOT make a live-out arrangement, if you have any common sense)"
Agreed. If I go on vacation for a week the government cannot make the case that I am no longer resident in my house.
Please support our advertisers:
"Even everyday to sleep with her friend, if it is okay to you why not?"
Really, beancurd? Because that definitely does not sound okay to me. I would have thought that if she decides to sleep over with her friend everyday, then that would be considered "live-out" and I'm pretty sure that's not allowed in our contractual agreement.
Please support our advertisers:
Agreed that it's about the relationship. But if you don't trust your helper enough that she can have her night out, that's not a good relationship.
Besides, she is allowed to stay out 24 hours. You have to let her leave the house for that period. In other words, she can actually do it even if you don't agree. Not that that would do the relationship much good, but still..
Please support our advertisers:
"there is no point asking Labour because the subject matter is 'owned' by Immigration."
I didn't even think of that. And looking back on the initial post, I see that strawblade called Labour. I called Immigration. No wonder we got different answers.
Please support our advertisers:
Isn't this immensely long thread a simple matter of the Helper being inconsiderate and the Employer being over-anxious?
My teenagers didn't have curfews. They were taught common sense and courtesy throug discussion. They simply phoned (and by phoned I mean they carried a quarter and went to a pay phone!) any time their fun-havings took them outside of the 'worry-free time zone'. I have a great relationship with my kids, and did as teenagers, because the trust level was established.
Now this discussion arrives dealing with an adult from a different standard of common sense and common courtesy. Instead of trying to control this human being and throw a bunch of legal mumbo-jumbo at her, try having a discussion first.
Please support our advertisers:
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail