Posted by
meiji
17 yrs ago
Would you loan $ 10 000 to your helper who has worked for you less than 1 year. I don't suspect that she really need the money because there was a sudden death in her family. She's leaving for 1 week (compassion leave), and I am including the air ticket for her, she doesn't have to pay us back. But, now she asked for a $ 10 000 loan. If we do not give her this loan, she must loan it elsewhere. That worries me. However, I worry, would she just take off with this loan and never return?
If I ask for a death certificate, does it seem cruel? And how "hard" is it to fake a cert?
If I do loan, what conditions would seem reasonable?
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loaning money to your Dh is sometimes a cause of a lot of troubles for employer-dh, its not bad to loan her money, if you really trust her you can loan her the money, if you really think she needs this job badly I am sure she will come back, but the problem is if you tried to loan her once she will again next time. If you really dont want her to loan a money from you tell her honestly that you dont feel comfortable with it, and give a small amount and say you will just give a little help, she will be happy i guess
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meiji
17 yrs ago
thank you everyone. I did tell her the number 1 rule in our household is DH are NOT to ask for loans..... but we just sympathize her and her family. I know they are in need of money. The funny thing is, I never heard of her having a brother in the family, and she says he's dead now.
I was planning to giver her a free air ticket, and haven't decide on the loan yet. However, I just realized, if she quits or I want to terminate her contract with us, and she hasn't repay all the money yet, then I cannot terminate ? She wouldn't have any money to repay us before she leaves....
I am just worried she will go financing and borrow money from loan sharks....
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well if she still decides to borrow money from the financing, i think you can't stop her better let her and let her pay there.....you can't stop them you know....anyway I don't think she dont have a loan in any financing...how come she is borrowing from you now if she can borrow it from the financing and arrange a payment there every month, its just a piece of cake for them to borrow from financing agency as long as she get a working visa she can borrow right away.
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I agree with Greenvalleys...it's the tip of the iceberg and she has probably ALREADY borrowed from the finance companies either directly, via guarantee through a friend or somethingelse.
If she has debt problems, no matter what you do, you won't be able to help her.
Unfortunately for these women, they are in a cycle of debt which is really hard if not impossible to get out of given their circumstances.
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There is a way to make it impossible ( well almost) for a helper to borrow from a finance company. No, I am not suggesting for employers to keep their helpers' passports etc.
Now, here's another side about loaning to helpers:
I was just 5 months with my current employer when she loaned me 30k, interest free when I went home for a holiday. It was the first and certainly was not the last, the second was when I was on another holiday and my father had a stroke it was fatal and the 10 days bill amounted to HK 35k++ it was one of the most trying times when the prescriptions kept coming, and no other source coming in. I was spared from lots of worries and was able to focus my time and care for dad because again, my boss wired me the money for it.
It has been paid, until dad passed away just 3 weeks after I got back for my holiday, this year. Again, I went home and was loaned some more. I can afford to pay back 3.5k back and still be comfortable so yes, it is not that bad.
Now, I have few job offers of a 10k+++ plus 15 months bonus and frequent travel but I do not even consider it. The extra kindness of my boss and her understanding about these circumstances is being paid back by unrelenting loyalty.
All 6 of us managed to buy rice fields, house and lots, put up a business, help send our siblings/children to school because of that and no one has been delinquent about payment and in my opinion, the fact that we do not have t worry about financial woes, we become not only a happy worker, but a more productive lot too.
All of us could borrow up to 50k interest free only once one was refused
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soufflequeen, you happen to have an employer who is very very rich that even 100K of them is just a small amount and can just let the maids borrow it, but not all employers in the same situation. And I can see you are a very matured person who always see things in a positive way thats why its works well for both of you and your boss, but unfortunately not all maids are like you, and not all employers are as rich as your boss.
Still the bottom line is, its not good to loan money to your maid.
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Abby you are right, ours is an exemption and not the "rule" and yes, TRUST is the key here. I did say only once was a loan refused because my co-worker said she wanted to buy a car. Our boss told her it is not a necessity, but just a luxury that is why was refused.
My bottom line is that, there is always some risks in loaning to helpers but if employers could determine that it is within reason and not just taken out of "whims" you should at least consider and forget about tales of "horror" about other maids debts. They are "other maids", not yours so try not to use the same brush. And to be frank, 95% of helpers has loans but only about 10% are bad loaners. The thing is, we do not get to hear about these loaners only the big bad ones. Just think if all loaners are as that bad, why does finance companies that caters to helpers' kept growing and expanding?
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Meiji,
sorry I have sort of have "ignored" your questions. It's easy to fake death certificate but it could be verified, too. Though to me, the need to verify the veracity of situation like this a bit too much, it shows lack of trust and should not be trust be one of the foundations for a good emploeyr-employee relationship?
Do you see any possiblity of firing her within the next 14 months? If no and you would rather not take the risk of her going to a loan shark, give her the loan and work out a repayment plan say 10k divided by the number of months left on the contract let her sign it with a note that a the loan must be paid in case she decided to leave your employment.
If you want to push it a bit further, include a fine print that says she authorised and understood and agreed that you could and will pursue repayment in her country of origin ( long shot but not impossible and somethiung for a helper to think about)
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Soufflequeen, for once I think I have to disagree with you here a little. I think it's all relative here. You mentioned that you could pay back HK3.5K per month and still be comfortable. Not all helpers are being paid more than the minimum wage, and some of the posters here, including myself, are not on expat terms, so cannot afford to pay higher salaries and offer large loans to helpers.
When I was working, no way could I ever ask my boss a loan 3 times my salary. Not even if it's for my family's health matters. If I took a loan out with a loan agency, and loan sharks came to the office to chase for payment, I would have been fired on the spot.
The reality of the real local HK is that some households only have an income of HK$30K total (if that). Paying 10% towards a helper is a big expense, yet families have to hire someone to look after their kids so that both parents can go out to work and maximise their earnings. Some parents here may ask "why have kids if you can't stay at home to look after them". It is a luxury for some parents to be able to stop working to take care of the children + have a helper to help out on the housework. That's why the HK population is ageing and many young couples are choosing not to have kids at all!
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hi, you know what if you trust your helper.help her if not sorry.
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Hi. I once lent money to a friend and will never do it again. I asked her to pay me back a certain amount a week and she resented it, but at the time I was really broke and it was a lot of money for me to lend her. Would I lend money to a helper? Hm, that depends on a lot of things...How long have I known her? Was her reference from a person I knew and if so then I'd trust the person more. Was the helper ever dishonest?Personally, I decided long ago that I don't lend money to anyone unless I will not dislike the person for not paying it back. What I mean is if I only lend a little money and the person can't pay it back and it won't ruin our relationship, then I can feel comfortable lending that amount. However, if it is for family, and I even questioned the character of the person or their ability to repay me, then I'd just simply think how much I could afford to donate to the person.
Since i am a softie, if a sweet helper seemed genuinely in need, i would need to know the details. for example, i'd call the funeral home or something. Then i might consider it. i've given my maid money before the end of the month, but i can't imagine lending that much money without even having it documented on paper, etc. I'm sorry some people got taken for a ride or lied to.
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My belief is that if you lend $ to family, friends or helpers, whether its $10 or $10,000 and you don't mind it being a bad debt, then by all means lend it. If it's returned to you on time, and without having to ask for it, it's a pleasant surprise, and you can treat that person even better than before!
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Meiji,
As a rule of thumb, I never used to lend money to my DHs until they have been with us for at least 1 year and we know we can trust them. However, our most recent hire - he asked for a loan of HK$10K three months into the contract and another HK$10k three months later. Both my husband and I really like and trust him. We lent him the money without too much hesitation. He repays HK$2,000 of the loan every month out of his salary. I think it really boils down to how much you trust this person.
Our helper makes more than minimum wage so I dont have any concerns about the repayment of the loan.
HF
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PoliteEmployer, thank you for disagreeing! The only person who seems to disagree with me for a while is my boyfriend. But only because we both know I am right and he is just winding me up for those make up time *lol*
As I've said, I know we are an exception, not the rule.
I think no one in this forum could say the he/she has not borrowed money from anyone be it to start a business or whatever.
Lending money to helpers and even friends requires trust. It has pros and cons, and Many relationship went astray because of non-payment, especially among "friends".
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I have lent money to my helper a few times for a few reasons - I can afford to lend her the money, the interest rate charged by finance companies is unfair bordering on extortionist, my employer provides me limited-purpose loan facility and I value it and would like to offer it to my employee as well. Has it increased my helper's loyalty towards me or her efficiency, I don't know but I hope so. Bottomline is lending money to a helper is a personal decision that everyone needs to make on their own based on their own circumstances and views. There is no safety in collectivity here, my friend.
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