Kind of complicated, but need advice

Our DH has been with us for 2.5 years. After completing the first two year contract in which I was the employer, she just renewed in February for another two year contract, this time with my hubbie as the employer. We switched names because I stopped working in the meantime.


After the first contract completed, she should have taken her holiday with us buying her air ticket but she told us that she really didn't want to have a holiday/go back home and asked us to grant her a deferral. We agreed and officially granted the deferral of holiday to be taken within one year which was on record before we renewed her again.


We have recently gone on a holiday and asked her to take her holiday while we were away. Again, she said she didn't want to go so we said okay.


When we came back from our hols this week, she said that she wants to terminate the current contract, return to PH and won't be coming back. And since she is now owed two air tickets (one from the first contract because she didn't take her hols after completing contract, and the second for this current contract), she want to have money in lieu of one of the air tickets.


Hubbie said that he doesn't want to pay monies in lieu of any of the air tickets. She's now taken this to the Labour Dept. and we have to show up in Claims Court about it. What a complete hassle! And we think she purposely didn't go on holiday this time when we asked so she can try and get money instead. I think that's why she kept deferring her holidays too.


Can anyone tell us if:


1) DH terminates the contract without completing it, does the employer still need to provide the air ticket? I am understanding that the employer only needs to provide the air ticket UPON COMPLETION of a contract and not if the DH chooses to quit.


2) If we do need to provide the ticket, can the employer make the final decision about whether to provide an actual ticket or to payout cash in lieu of the ticket instead?


Basically, it looks like she is owed two air tickets--one from first contract and one for this current one--and of course, she has no need for two tickets. But since she's caused us so much hassle and taken advantage of our kindness to keep deferring her holidays, we do not want to payout any cash if it is in legal compliance. It's really her own mess that she is stuck with two air tickets.


Anyone know the answers for what is legally compliant?

FOTH - it's exactly as "jbebeb" says, it's the principal behind it all, not so much whether it's "only" $1500 or not. She took advantage of our niceness because everytime we asked her to take her holiday, she kept telling us she doesn't want to go and we agreed finally because we didn't want to force her to go on holiday. And now, right after we just return from our holiday, she tells us that she's going to terminate and that she wants cash in lieu of the air tickets.


jbebeb - thanks for your help and for advising the link. She did't go on her holiday after completing the two year contract (although we kept telling her she needs to go) because she said she has no reason to go home at that time and could she please defer her holiday and take it within a year. We didn't like it but finally agreed. Since that time, we've taken two family vacations where we asked her to take those holidays and she kept saying she doesn't want to. We were just too nice to keep agreeing with her and letting her stay back. Now she says also that the deferred holiday situation is invalid anyways because the renewed contract is no longer under my name but is with my husband's name. So, she's taking me to Claims court saying that I owe her the holiday and ticket from the first contract and it's been outstanding all this time! When in fact, we were under the impression that she agreed to defer her holidays. I'm pretty steamed about this and now I have to waste time to go to the court, take time off work, and drag my two year old along as well because I can't just leave him at home. So yes, it's a principle thing that we will provide all the outstanding air tickets (even if she doesn't need so many of them)instead of paying her cash in lieu.

jbebeb - i think that there is a clause that says the holidays can be deferred up to a year (but it seems only if under the same employer). But in our case, the contract is actually renewed under a different employer (my hubbie) so does that mean technically, by law, she should have gone back? I think that she has found this glitch out in the meantime and is using it as leverage against me now--the fact that after completing her first contract with us, I never gave her an air ticket and holidays (when in fact, she requested us to deferr her holidays in the first place).

24,

Good luck to you too. I m just like you. Principal counts. Have you ever discussed your situation with the Labour Department because Labour Department is for employers as well. I am sure they are willing to help. Helpers' going home can be deferred a year even if it is a different employer. It sounds very tricky of her deferring her holidays, entered into a new contract and then break it half way thru. and ask for money in lieu. If she wins the case that means others can do that as well. I really think that you should report to Labour Department about her tricks.

jbebeb - thanks for all your helpful tips and support.


Mighty - good idea to discuss this situation with the Labour Dept about our side to see what they advise before we go to the Claims session. I would indeed like to report to them also about her underhanded ways but how does an employer go about making a report? Do I simply call them and tell them the name of our helper and the situation?

This is a local way of thinking, may be. It is actually good for you in this case to report to the Labour Department explaining to them and giving them whatever evidence you have. Dont show them that you are furious and just try to be calm (i know its difficult) and get their sympathy. I am sure as they handle so many DH cases every day, they can 'sense' who is right and who is wrong. I think you can call and make a appointment with them and tell them in person. You should tell them her name because there seems no return in this case. Good luck, 24.

Sorry, it's still me '24' who just posted above. I logged in with my other user name by mistake.

Our contract does not say a thing about providing laundry detergent, toilettries. I was pretty sure that these items are not the obligation of the employer. But she kept insisting that they definitely are. That's why when my hubbie renewed the second contract, he agreed to give her extra $300 allowance a month to get all these things. I didn't want him to but he said that to keep her happy, it's really only a small amount to pay extra. You know, you're right. She is a scheming b*#&$#*! We should have not renewed with her but it was all for the sake of our two-year old son, who has known her since his birth. I kept tolerating her because I didn't want the big disruption for him. Other than all these above things I've described, she is also owing money to a bank and the debt collectors have called and harrassed me a number of times. Again, I was going to terminate her then but thought about our dear son. Lately, it has gotten worse and worse. She will come home and tell me how she makes the lowest salary out of all the other helpers that she has met at our son's playgroups. But we already pay her more than the minimum. She complained that the other helpers get to take taxis everywhere and she has to take the bus! It's pathetic because I also take the bus everyday. It's gotten to be too much cr-p from her lately. That's why we don't want to give her any monies in lieu of any of those plane tickets if we don't have to. If she had been nice and more upfront about it, then we might have, but her underhanded, sneaky ways make us want to battle this whole thing out because of principal.

Mrs Miggins - thank you for your helpful suggestion to write everything down in detail in a letter to her. did exactly that and made a copy to pass to the Labour Dep. so that have it on record.


Wanted to let everyone know that I appreciate your input and support. Went to the concilliation meeting this morning. Outome was that I would provide the air ticket and holiday leave payment and travel allowance from the first contract. That's fine because I had every intention to provide these things in the first place but it was each time her who kept saying that she didn't want to take her holidays.


But the claims of us withholding breakfast and the compensation for the laundry detergent I was obligated to provide I completely disputed and now it is going to court because there could be no agreement reached in the session--she still states that we deprived her and I say we definitely did not. I know some think that it's a small dollar amount to bother going to court over but god help me, it's a principal thing. For someone to tell a blatant lie and then I even have to pay money to her for this complete fabrication, I've just got to fight it out.


Next claim was when we renewed her second contract, we also verbally agreed with her that we would set aside an extra $400 a month because of tax levy reducing salaries. After successful completion of the two year contract, she would get that total sum ($9600). It was meant as a bonus and incentive. In the claims, she says that it is untrue and that she was supposed to get that extra $400 every month and she hasn't seen any of that money since the beginning of the new contract. It's a complete lie. We made it very clear it would be given upon successful completion. I am so upset and angry at the fabrication and then her trying to claim for it. Therefore, in the meeting today, I just had to stick to my side of it out of sheer principal. I know again it's not alot of money but it would make me sick to pay her this money based again on a lie. So now this claim is also going to the court. We have terminated her immediately now. I just couldn't even stand to see face in our flat anymore. Now, the court case awaits...

Also, we urgently need a new helper now. Can anyone please give me a good personal referral? I'm really wary now and don't know if I can trust the ones on websites as they might be fabricating their credentials.

24,


from your posts, it seemed to me that she was the one asking to quit. under the employment contract and the employment ordinance, she should give you either one month notice, or 1 month wages in lieu of immediate notice. did she give you notice? if not, file a counterclaim of 1 month wages in lieu of notice. you are ENTITLED to it.



as for the ticket, every employer must provide their helper a single journey ticket for them to return home. the reason is that the HK immigration does not want these helpers to take advantage of obtaining HK residency by working here for 7 years. given that's the legislative intention, i personally do not think you need to pay her 2 tickets.


in addiiton, you do not need to pay her cash of rthe ticket. you can buy her an open single journey ticket instead of her paying her cash (cheapest ticket to manila should be by CEBU air). this way you can surely save some money and punish her for her mischief.


you don't have to worry about the shampoos, laundry powders etc. you are NOT obliged to provide personal items for her - read the contract, it only stated that you need to provide "bathing FACILITIES", not items such as shampoos and soap. i mean, she will need to buy her own sanitary pads no matter where she is - be it in HK or the Fillipines.



as the 400 tax rebate is an "incentive" and conditions were attached, you do not have to pay her as she was in breach. she puts all the claims against you because she wants to test your limits and rip you off as much as she can - and it's about time to teach her a lesson.

Moral of the story.. keep receipts, document everything, and get signatures. Treat employees the same way you would expect to get treated at your own jobs. Strong documentation.