Posted by
axptguy38
16 yrs ago
I have noticed this phenomenon before, but I did not realize quite how widespread it is until recently.
Many employers don't allow their helpers to speak to anyone while "on duty". Not even a "hello" to their colleagues when they pass them in the hallway, or at the playground.
I find this exceedingly cruel, disrespectful, over-controlling and counter-productive. I don't understand what the employers are afraid of, exactly. That the helper may act like a human being?
This is an advice forum, so here's the advice: Treat your helper with respect. She is a human being. If you treat her like a stupid slave she will soon start acting like one.
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Joeuk
16 yrs ago
Although I do agree with you I think I might know one of the reason's. Where I live the helper's are all very chatty, this leads to gossip. One time I knew when someone was pregnant although she didn't really want people to know, my helper had found out from another helper etc etc....
Some people really don't want gossip said about them. Why they don't just ask the helper not to talk about them who know's! Everybody has the right to talk!
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Agreed completely Joeuk. Gossip is definitely a factor. And there is a lot of it. Having a helper definitely has an impact on privacy. There's no denying it. But as you say it is more respectful to ask the helper not to gossip than to tell her to become a mute.
It also has an impact on children. Helpers tend to organize ad hoc playgroups and have the kids play together. Quite hard to do if you're not allowed to talk at all.
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I have never heard of people not allowing their helper to say anything at all to people they know when they meet them ... that's really weird!
One thing I can think of is that some employers may not like their helper to chat for long periods of time instead of getting on with their work. But to ban all conversation is way over the top. So long as she is able to get her work done on time, what's the harm in it?
Where I live the helpers are all friendly with one another, and my friends' and neighbours' helpers all greet me and I greet them, I can't imagine any of them not saying 'hello' to me in the lobby. How strange it would be for them to follow such a rule when their are children present as well, I can't imagine how my little boys would feel if their friends' helpers wouldn't speak to them. Fortunately we've never encountered such a problem.
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"I have never heard of people not allowing their helper to say anything at all to people they know when they meet them ... that's really weird! "
A significant number of neighbors here. It feels a bit like entering the Twilight Zone when I belt out my usual cheerful "Good Morning!" and the poor helper looks at me nervously and twitches an almost smile while rapidly walking past. Doesn't stop me from saying "Good Morning!" every single time of course. I feel sorry for the girl but I am going to be polite regardless of how their bonehead employer feels about the whole thing.
Come to think of it we also have some snooty neighbors who, when greeted, look at me as if a dogt**d has just said "hi", then look away. Some people... I'm not asking to be your life long pal; I'm just saying we share a space so let's be civil...
"Where I live the helpers are all friendly with one another, and my friends' and neighbours' helpers all greet me and I greet them, I can't imagine any of them not saying 'hello' to me in the lobby."
As it should be. Over here, the other helpers think it's sad but there's not much they can do about it.
I make it a point to introduce our helper to anyone as normal social convention would mandate. The fact that she's a helper doesn't make her less of a person. The way lots of people don't introduce a (new) helper who is standing right there is downright rude.
"One thing I can think of is that some employers may not like their helper to chat for long periods of time instead of getting on with their work. But to ban all conversation is way over the top. So long as she is able to get her work done on time, what's the harm in it?"
The point, I think, is that these employers are very insecure. They are afraid that if they don't regulate these aspects, the helper will spend all her time on the phone or chatting. While some helpers certainly do so, banning conversation is not the answer. A mature employer knows that an adult can be trusted to make a judgment call and know when conversation is appropriate. Some helpers will fail the test, if you will, but that's life. Banning conversation and other such rules (who knows what goes on behind closed doors?) ensure that the helper will never take any positive initiative that will be beneficial to the family for fear of being punished.
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I am very sorry to hear you've encountered such an unusual set-up where you are, but I am sure most places in Hong Kong are not like that. It makes me wonder whereabouts you are based in HK as I can't think of anywhere like that ... Some areas are known to be particularly friendly, like Bel-Air and the Belchers for example.
Anyway, I think many employers would like their helpers to have friends & neighbours they can turn to if they don't know something. For instance, if I ask my helper to take a bus somewhere to run an errand and I don't know the bus number, it's not a problem because she just asks around and someone will know it, for sure. Not only that, what about if there were an emergency? She might need to ask help of someone.
BTW, about your snooty neighbours who sometimes also do not greet you, I find that in Hong Kong some people (rightly or wrongly) are so nervous about the possibility of a long conversation in English with a non-Chinese speaker that they won't even say hello. I had that at a school I worked at in Wan Chai. They were just worried that if they said "hi" I wouldn't say "hi " back but would start a lengthy conversation and that that they would be out of their depth. It wasn't personal, they were like it with all the non-Chinese speakers. When I let it be known that I can also speak converastional Mandarin they completely changed their attitude towards me, they would be the ones to say "hello" because they knew if the conversation got too hard for their English level we could just switch to Mandarin.
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Snow Rose, thanks for those words. I feel I am misrepresenting my building, actually. Most of the neighbors I meet (it's a big building) are at least civil, and quite a few are very nice. So it's not really a problem. We live in a great place overall, with nice guards, good service, and at least a little sense of community. I agree with you about friends and neighbors helping out. The helpers here really do help each other, except the poor ones who are not permitted to speak.
"BTW, about your snooty neighbours who sometimes also do not greet you, I find that in Hong Kong some people (rightly or wrongly) are so nervous about the possibility of a long conversation in English with a non-Chinese speaker that they won't even say hello."
Interesting observation, and might definitely fit with some neighbors. I shall keep it in mind. Most of the "local" neighbors I meet will nod and smile, actually. Others on my floor, whom I am pretty sure speak perfect English, have no excuse. ;)
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cc77
16 yrs ago
I seen lots of employers (mostly locals) who really don't want their helpers to speak to anyone, even a simple "hi" and that's simply ridiculous!
Advise to employers who make their helpers mute:
Treat them as human being as what xpatguy38 has said. There's nowhere in the contract you can find that employers are entitled to shut their helper's mouth.
God created the tongue to speak and we must use it, okay?!!
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i have had a boss who checks my mobile phone call records.. and told me explcitly to ignore the guards at out bldg and to not associate with th other helpers. it was a bit hard at that time as i was taking care of 2 kids who loves to go the play ground and when we did we went at odd times so that there would be no one there and mrs. mum would be watching us at the balcony.. and if other kids would come we were called up my the mum..
i have long since left that job.. as i think she invaded my privacy big time.. and now my replacement helpers were NOT allowed to mingle at all..
some people told me that she didnt want her helpers talking to others coz they can find out that shes a terrible boss which wasnt far from the truth..
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What constantly astounds me, and saddens me, is that these helpers who are treated so badly stay in their jobs and at the same time I frequently hear from friends, and have even experienced, helpers who are treated extremely nicely & generously by their employers only to throw all that kindness back in their employers' faces! How very sad it is that the nice employers don't get the helpers who would stay & finish the contract, and the nasty employers don't get the helpers who are unappreciative!!
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"How very sad it is that the nice employers don't get the helpers who would stay & finish the contract, and the nasty employers don't get the helpers who are unappreciative!!"
Indeed sad. However the matter is a bit more complex. A good employer will perhaps "trust beyond reason", but in the end often achieves "results beyond hope" (yes I stole those quotes). In other words, even many helpers who are not above exploiting bad owners may find that good behavior is rewarded by good employers.
It is unavoidable that some employers are bad, and some helpers are bad. However, I can't help but feel that a lot of bad helpers are made to become so by their employers.
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encounter some DHs in such situation also. While waiting for my ward I had this filipina who's asking me some tips on how to be a good DH upon learning that I was working here for more than four years already. Im doing some explaining when she suddenly went stiff and ask me not to talk already because she saw her boss coming.... and still, were not gossiping but talking about how we will do more to retain our employement.
some employers are bitches and impossible..
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try living with a totally bitchy controlling boss who like to party on weekends and leaves you to answers the kids q's about where mummy is.. goes home drunk on the wee hours of the morning and asks you to NOT sleep until she arrives.. checks your phone and reads your sms (i keep my phone in the kitchen drawer for my personal stuff).. basically tells you to be the surrogate mum so she can have the life she wants with out the kids.. and then sacks you coz the kids like you... (she told her friend who was the employer of my friend who told me.)
so sometimes doing your job isnt exactly what the employers are looking for..
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Yech. That's appalling applebubble. I hope your current employer is nicer.
It's quite sad how they require the helpers to take classes nowadays before coming here but the employers can just go ahead...
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yeah when I first came here a brochure on how to be a good DH and HK laws and regulation for FHD was handed to me at the airport. But now Im wondering when they also give out "how to be a good employers and living harmoniously with a DH" brochures to employers when they will hire FDHs. I noticed there arent any at the yellow book that come along with the green paper contract.
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axpatguy: yeah it was horrendous.. needless to say i dint last long.. she sacked me after like 2 months.. which was a blessing... i loved her kids like they were my brother and sister.. but she took it the wrong way.. anyhoo.. i have a new employer who is much better than my last one..
yeah they make us take classes on how to do housework by hotel standards plus cantonese classes plus first aid.. we have a full medical exam and psych exam before we can leave hk...
employers should have classes on how to manage employee... no offense intended here.. im just saying that not everyone have the management skills needed to manage a helper... being the head of a company and being an employer to someone who lives in you house and takes care of you household are 2 totally diff things...
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let me sing a different tune, however its related with this topic.
Though I've never been into such situation its odd to see this common scenario on restaurants:
wherein while employers and their family are having dinner, chatting lively on public restaurants, their DH are just there sitting infront of them, wathcing them, not allowed to have some food or even have a taste. Saw 3 or 4s such and I saw the expression on DHs face. I may not ask but I knew that she's feeling so oppressed at that very moment. Tsk, how do these people treat someone like that. How could they enjoy a meal and pretend that there isnt a person among them who's not even allowed to touch a food?
Its a very unpleasant scenario...
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Oh apple79, I saw a couple scenarios like you mentioned. I felt so bad for the helper.
Just the other day, I was having yumcha with my mom. This family of 6 arrived with their helper. They made themselves comfortable, ordered tea and took some dimsums from the dimsum table nearby.
They started chatting away while eating and what caught my attention was their helper was not even offered tea! Not a tea nor food! What a horrible sight! I felt like offering the poor woman our food and tea : ( My heart was shattered and I can't help but feel so awfully bad for the woman who happens to be Filipino like me : (
I just cannot understand WHY and WHY do these nasty people have to bring their helper along on restaurants only to WATCH them eat. It doesn't make any sense!?
What these people do not realize is that the more they want to appear superior in public by doing what they do with their helpers, the TINIER they appear to people's eyes. OMG! they're just definitely so unreasonable. I wonder how their treating their helpers at home : / wahhhh
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maxis
16 yrs ago
This happens ALL THE TIME.
I have long since lost count of the times I have seen families of say 6 to 12, sittig around the table in a resturant, scoffing their faces whilst their FDH sits looking on without so much as a glass of water.
It begs the question of "who the hell do these people think they are!?!"
When I look at them, they are no more refined than the average person, and often are if fact just lazy slobs who have enogh to pay the 3.5k per month,and certainly make sure they get at least 10k's worth of service for their money.
Upon recently dining at one of my favourite Chinese resturants, the very thing happened, with the DH sitting sideways wedged in the corner adjacent the table of the family, and had to jump up at the very instant she was barked at.
What is this? Bring your own waitress /servant?
Frankly, I felt uncomfortable throughout my meal (really very uncomfortable actually), and really felt like ordering something to eat and drink for her, and sending it over, with the waitress billing me and refusing to say from whom it had come.
Thankfully at a club at which I am a member, it is not allowable to bring your DH in unless as a guest in a non-working capacity. And let me say, I see ladies who are probably DH but as guests. In fact, recently a whole table of ladies som of whom were undoubtedly were DH were at the resturant, with someone who was a member or whose husband was a member - and it was refreshing to see.
Anyhow, I believe DH means "Domestic Helper", not a "bring them out of you domestic residence and have them as a beck&call girl"!
If those people could see themselves throug the eye's of others (without their own self pre-occupied/obsessed view of themselves), they should felt righly ashamed, but they won't. This has been happening (and worse) for years, and will continue to do so for many more to come.
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