Posted by
mum of 2
16 yrs ago
Rather than hijack another thread, I thought it might be helpful to post stories of helpers who genuinely have a really tough life and picking the brains of posters who might have solutions. The story that Cara posted some months back about the poor woman who had to sleep in the same room as her male and female employers and massage the breasts of the woman who was breastfeeding stands out in my mind.
I was at a birthday party yesterday and spoke to a group of helpers about one of the other threads on this forum. While most of them said that they'd like to be paid more, have bigger bedrooms etc, the majority of them claimed to be happy overall. One of them though had a story which reduced me to tears.
This girl's friend has two children, BOTH had terminal illnesses. Their mother became a helper here to pay for their healthcare. The first deteriorated more rapidly than expected during her contract but her employer refused to fly her home because she had only worked for them for one year. To cut a long and harrowing story short, the eldest child died. She continues to work for this family because she needs to pay for the healthcare of the younger child.
I asked if they had sought advice from one of the FDH support groups and apparently she did. She was told that, while anyone would consider her employer's behaviour inhuman, it is not illegal. I thought that she was entitled to 7 days leave per year of service and offered to pay for her flight so that she could see her younger child and grieve for the older one with her family, as they said that she could not afford the fare. They said that she is only entitled to take those days after she has completed 2 full years' service.
I obviously suggested just finding another employer but she is afraid to risk breaking her contract. So, I am asking, apart from begging for compassion, which I assume she has tried - what can be done for this girl?
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That's awful the poor woman, and feeling she has no option but to either leave and loose her income or smile sweetly and pretend to be happy tso she can provide medical for her remaining daughter.
I really do hope Karma is real and people sooner or later get what they deserve
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I think the answer is - not much. Unfortunately, although the decision of when the employee takes her accrued annual leave is a joint one, the reality is that, like most jobs, the employer has the last word. Many employers accumulate all the annual leave until the end of the contract because the DH is supposed to go home for 2 weeks before she starts the new contract. So for employers who want to renew the same helper, and cannot / do not wish to give more than the minimum time off, the only thing to do is to save up all the annual leave until the end.
One other possible reason for the employers' refusal in this case is that they don't believe the helper, as there are so many fake sob stories (as have been discussed on this forum). The helper could very politely offer to provide proof of her situation prior to departure (e.g. hospital report), provide her own air fare (or take up your generous offer) and minimise the incovenience of her absence e.g. leave cooked food to be heated up and a week's worth of groceries in the fridge , finish all housework/ironing before she goes, arrange playdates for the kids in the family at friends' homes etc. If she is friendly with her employers' friends' helpers, she could see if they are willing to help by looking after the kids once or twice while she's gone.
But if the employers still say no, and the DH still wants to go, then changing jobs is the only answer.
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Cool, that's really made my day thanks for the update cara
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Hopefully you can keep in touch with email so she wont seem so far away
When is she due to leave? would it be worth her just moving out if they are going to give her a hard time? can anyone give her a roof just for a short while?
Hope they don't try and ruin it for her with lies to immigration or that
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That's very kind of you cara
I really hope it all works out for her and they don't make life miserable for the last month
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optimistic, I think it is outrageously unfair for you to suggest that her employers might "ruin it for her with lies to immigration or that". Not all helpers are sweet and innocent, and not all employers are savage-like tyrants. What's with all the generalizations? Why all the employer bashing? The employers in this case were providing her with what she wanted after all, i.e. an income to help finance and provide health care for her children back home. (Assuming the helper's story is in fact true.) Her employers did not cause her daughter's death, and her employers did not force her to become a domestic helper. Why do you always seem to make so many biased assumptions, optimistic? How do we know that the employers also do not have special circumstances in this case? Let's try and be fair, and not so blindly and bitterly judgemental.
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Cara, she could just give them payment in lieu. I would not take much for a few of us to chip in and 'donate' a month's salary to get her out of there. Cannot believe she is earning a cent more than minimum. PM me and I would happily send you a cheque.
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Me too cara, pm me an address and I'd be happy to send a contribution
bmkwong you don't warrant a reply
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Cara is her friend able to have it sent to her house? anyone with a PO box maybe
I am also going away Thursday morning so it will need to be before then for me or after 10th April when we get back.
I'm happy to send cash if easier
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Thanks cara i'll do it tomorrow
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smsm
16 yrs ago
i have someone whos looking for a 2nd helper to look after the new born. Its a very decent family and do take good care of their helpers. Would she like to go for an interview.
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smsm, the helper who told me the story has promised to SMS me the girl's phone number. I will PM it to you as soon as I receive it. I have never met the woman so certainly cannot vouch for her in any way, but your friend could make her own mind up if they get to the interview stage.
Cara, I have replied to your message. Thanks
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I thought the helper was going to Canada ?
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Different helper, I think. I assumed that smsm was asking about the helper that I heard about at the birthday party yesterday. Cara's helper's friend (the one who used to have to massage her employer's breasts) is the one with a visa for Canada.
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So, (mum of 2) you "have never met the woman... and certainly cannot vouch for her in any way", but you can call her employers "abusive"?? You can even title your thread "Abusive employers..."???
Sorry, but I just don't think that's fair.
And, while I want to be symapthetic to this thread, there are so many (hearsay) stories from a helper's friend-of-a-friend that I have trouble following it. It seems like even you are a bit confused...
Further, did you even stop your tangent long enough to notice that virtually ALL of the helpers you spoke with yourself at the birthday party that day were in fact happy? Sorry to disappoint you, but not all employers are bad.
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Oh i see i didn't realize it was a different person
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Perhaps it's not fair bmkong. Maybe I'm just very gullible by believing such a story. However, I think it would be a very sick person to fabricate such a tale. Assuming that it is true, I think that it certainly qualifies as abuse to deny a mother the opportunity to visit her dying child. They may be meeting their legal obligations, but I would certainly call it abuse.
I made a point of posting this as a separate thread because I am trying to avoid making a more general accusation. I stand by my belief that most employers try to be fair, and this was backed up by the fact that the majority of the girls to whom I spoke yesterday seemed very happy.
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bmkwong mum of 2 started the thread to discuss abusive employers hence the name of the thread. The story she shared was clearly explained as being a story shared by one of the helpers while at a birthday party so obviously mum of 2 didn't know her. I guess you never read the thread before you commented
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I beg your pardon, optimistic, but I have read this thread several times and find it a somewhat unclear, and very unfair. (Btw, there you go again, making assumptions.)
One thing that IS clear though is that you and others on this thread seem determined to try and do some employer bashing today. I guess I wouldn't mind so much, if it were based on clear, truthful, details with a bit of evidence thrown in for good measure... But when it's based purely on hearsay and generalizations and unfair assumptions, that even you and your own group apparently cannot get straight, I just felt the need to speak up.
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mum of 2, it is clear that you are a very kind-hearted person, I just don't like idea of the story being so one-sided, and based purely on second-hand hearsay. I also find it suprising that you and other posters would jump to so many conclusions without even being fully clear on all the details. How well did you know the helper who told you this story in the first place?
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bmkwong, I must say that I find it amusing that you would consider me part of optimistic's 'own group'. She (I am assuming that optimistic is a woman for some reason) and I spent half of yesterday or the day before arguing another thread. I would love to believe that this particular story was untrue, but unfortunately I saw the distress in the woman's face as she told me about her friend. If it has been fabricated, she is a very sick person &/or deserving of an Oscar.
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Then how can you comment if you find it confusing?
I have explained it as i see it above so wont repeat it again perhaps mum of 2 will explain it to you
Oh she already has
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No offence, but I think mum of 2 needs to explain it to you as well, optimistic, since from your comments anyone can see you are also confused. But then again... she herself was confused!
Perhaps the origin of all the confusion on this thread it that the story is based on hearsay and assumptions...
I think we are all sympathetic, but hopefully not all of us are unfair.
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Sorry bmk, forgot to add that the girl who told me the story is one of 2 girls who do the school run most days, so I have made small talk with her while waiting at the school door for years. You would be correct in assuming that I do not know her well though. That is also why I wanted smsm to be clear that I could not give any personal references because you are right, it is hearsay. Just pretty heartbreaking hearsay.
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How could i be offended by someone i don't know bmkwong, everyone is entitled to their opinion
and if everyone agreed with each other what a very boring world it would be.
As you are reading this on a forum everything is hearsay, may or may not be true and are other peoples perceptions of an event but you respond to the imformation given by the poster. How else would the forum work?
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TO BE AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE BMK - I objected to Optimistic's contributions in another thread because I believed that the OP was making a real effort to get advice from other employers on her relationship with her helper. Optimistic and others made some sweeping comments on bad employers and abuse of helpers. Some posters (not optimistic) were incredibly rude to the OP because they jumped to the wrong conclusions. I had previously read something that cara had posted about a helper who was given very little food, made sleep in the same room as her employers and forced to massage her breasts. I thought that counted as genuine abuse, whereas making someone work an extra hour or two here or there would not class as abuse in my book.
The thread was in my mind when I was at a birthday party. I was the only parent, apart from the hosts and asked some of the helpers there what their experiences were. Although some of them would have liked better wages etc, the only story that stood out as a case of abuse was this one. As I mentioned above, I asked what they had tried to do for her, and therefore posted here to see if anyone had any other ideas.
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Well, to be INCREDIBLY CLEAR mum of 2, I still think it's wrong for you to label the employers as abusive without even knowing all the facts of this case... (and sorry, but I feel less enlightened than ever about this thread after reading your most recent comment.)
And to optimistic, hearsay is always to be discounted, even on a forum like this... and I would hope that most posters here use first-hand experience (rather than second-hand hearsay) to make a statement and/or to give advice to others.
Again, I think any decent person would be very sympathetic to the details in this thread, assuming they were true... (that said, I for one have heard LOADS of stories of helpers fabricating all kinds of elaborate stories for various reasons, but in order to follow my own rule of not submitting hearsay, I shall not list them here.)
My point is simply to remember to always remain fair and accurate while making statements and offering advice on this forum. Otherwise, you might end up weakening your own arguement, or damaging your own noble cause.
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Fair point bmk. That is why I am just asking if anyone has any brainwaves in terms of what this girl can do ASSUMING THE STORY IS TRUE. I am not expecting anyone to send her cash etc. A flight on Cebu costs very little, so that is not the issue here.
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Yes, it's best to focus on the second half of your title, 'constructive solutions'.
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I would edit it, if I was not incapable of switching my browser bmk. Struggling with the technology at the moment.
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mum of 2 and bmk - it is so refreshing to see differing views resolved in such a civilised way.
some ideas on how to help:
snow rose raises some practical and simple ideas - perhaps raise these with the helper and see if any are feasible.
you need to decide how involved you want to be - eg are you prepared to meet with the helper and verify the situation? would you be prepared to intervene with the employer on the helper's behalf (or, if the employer is not a native English speaker to arrange for someone to do this); it might be worth contacting the consulate to see if it will make enquiries on the helper's behalf.
Of course before any one else gets involved you need to find out more about the situation and work out how to address it. If you do not want to do this then you need to arrange for some one else to do make these enquiries for the helper.
I would also revisit the legalities of when leave can be taken and what can be done if the employer refuses to fix a leave date (it's called ANNUAL leave for a reason, presumably)
what is the helper's time-table? when does she want to go home? is it possible for her to line up a new job, give notice and then go home between contracts? what efforts have been made to get a new job?
Perhaps publicity will help (approach migrant workers organisations or the SCMP to high light the injustice in this case (if that is how it appears)?
When I was a student I volunteered in a legal centre adn found that many matters of incredible complexity arose from quite simple miscommunications and misunderstandings. as bmk has said we don't know the whole picture and it may be that the solution is less complex (and, hopefully, less heartless) than it appears.
i think that the really important thing is get as complete and accurate a picture of the true situation so tha tthe the helper can decide on what is the best way to go forward.
Arranging counselling would be a great first step - Employment issues aside, the helper is clearly in need of a strong and supportive network.
btw, mumof 2, I disagree with your statement, "Some posters (not optimistic) were incredibly rude to the OP because they jumped to the wrong conclusions." in your post above. optimistic's incredibly rude comment to the OP, questioning her decision to have children, was made AFTER another poster had explained to optimistic what the OP meant to say.
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small fry I'm flattered you have a need to involve me in your posts but it would be great if you where saying something different at least. How on earth can a poster who does not know the op in any way know what they meant? it's impossible. Is it not equally possible that the poster meant what they said and after seeing peoples reaction to this were happy to change there tune to the one suggest by yourself for example?
Anyway lets not drag another thread into this clearly we see things very differently and have different views on what is right and wrong lets agree to dissagree rather than put others through endless he said she said posts.
Time to move on and accept we will never agree on these sorts of things.
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Speaking of "abusive" behaviour... I wonder what the various posters on this thread would have to say regarding the news story in the local media today about a helper who, after being served notice of termination of employment, deliberately tried to poison her employer's nine month old baby girl by putting bleach in her milk bottle.
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bmkwong's last question was kind of off-topic but, just to answer what i think of that incident -- these incidents are far and few, and needless to say that helper need to take responsibility for what she did. but, as an employer, rather than blaming that particular helper endlessly, i would focus on how to prevent this kind of things from happening to my family. two things occurred to me: 1. if i were to terminate a helper, i would let her go immediately rather than giving one month's notice. it costs some money and some may say it's harsh to the helper, but sorry with a small kid i would only feel comfortable doing so. 2. if i were unhappy with a helper, i would take the time and money to find another one right away instead of stay on with the unsatisfactory one and let the relationship deteriorate (that apparently had happened to the family in the news before the helper was terminated).
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My apologies... I wasn't trying to drift off topic, but rather point out that perhaps it's not always only the helpers who need our sympathy. In fact to be perfectly fair, it seems abuse can occur on both sides of the employment contract. (But that point might be a lost cause on this thread.)
That said, miao miao, I don't think a "deteriorated relationship" is any excuse for attempting to poison an employer's baby.
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bmk -- of course not an excuse -- that's not what i meant. i was just trying to think from the defensive side and practically what one could do to prevent that kind of things from happening in their house.
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Is there a competition going on around here that I am not getting it. Now it really seems strange for some sensible people to throw around the guilty verdict, before the case has even gone to court. My two cents would be to wait for what the court of law has to say.
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
The helper has admitted to the crime - to get back at the employer for wanting to fire her.
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bmk, forget about optimistic. I've had so many arguments with this person because she always rambles on and on.. BUT i am surprised that she didn't bring in her better half, axptguy38, he usually shows up right about now to help her out!!
where are you axptguy38?
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"BUT i am surprised that she didn't bring in her better half, axptguy38, he usually shows up right about now to help her out!!
where are you axptguy38?"
Contrary to what some bores believe, cara and I do not plan a concerted approach to these threads. We simply happen to agree with each other a lot. The reason I have not responded to this thread is that I didn't have very much to add. Apologies if I have disappointed...
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"it IS eerie though how often we do agree....don't you think? i have a feeling you are me...but male!"
I like to think of it as you are me, but female. ;)
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