Posted by
hkwatcher
16 yrs ago
Three IMD officers (they were REALLY young, looked like college students) showed up at my office today and asked me many questions about my DH, how many people in my house, if she had her own room, what were her duties etc. They looked at my HKID card, and I had to sign a paper that said I was interviewed by them. Then they went to my house and spoke to my DH through the gate. She invited them in to look at her room, but they declined.
Has anyone else had this experience?
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Never had this happen.
Not to be overly skeptical but did they show ID? In the US in these cases the wise thing to do is to call their office and check that they are the real thing.
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aemom
16 yrs ago
Not to put too much of a paranoid spin on this, but why would they contact you at work first? The sample contract on the Immigration Department website has your residence address on it. Why wouldn't they contact you there? Or telephone you or send a letter?? Sounds so unusual.
Sorry not any help as I've never heard of this happening before - especially when there seems to be no need for the visit. Could someone have complained about you? Best to contact Immigration directly.
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
That's very weird! And 3 officers - what wasted man-power!
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did you get a copy of the paper that you signed? I would be very concerned...if they aren't for real then they have your signature too! scary! Let us know what happens...
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Yes, they were very clear to show us their badges that had pictures of themselves and everything. I asked them if there was some sort of problem, and they said no problem, they were "surveying" and wanted to check to make sure we weren't using our DH at our office for some illegal work. They also wanted to make sure she had her own bed space!
I asked my DH when I got home and she said her auntie who had worked for the same family for 25 years also had a visit and they made the employers buy her a bed rather than the fold up roll away she was sleeping on to care for the elderly grannie (90 years old) So I was freaked out at first .... but I don't think I should be scared since we aren't doing anything illegal. Having said that I feel "watched"
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Gotta love societies where they can come in without a warrant. I wonder if one is allowed to deny access.
If you're not doing anything illegal you're fine of course, but as hkwatcher says, it makes you feel like Big Brother is watching.
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I would definitely call Immigration to ask whether they have such a thing called "surveying". And if so, how would they pick the employers to survey?
I would be quite concerned either it was a scam, unrelated to immigration no matter how real it looks, OR your DH is up to something, or your DH got into suspicious trouble with the immgration, or your DH told something to the immigration.
It's almost impossible (unless new laws) for the immigration officers to show up unannounced at your work place to "harass" you this way. It is totally against your rights and privacy when you have done nothing that ought to put your self into such a position.
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Although it does sound suspect and i would definitely call immigration for clarification it's hardly harassment (although inappropriate) and i wouldn't assume your helper has done anything wrong either as this could ruin a perfectly good relationship based on nothing but as comment on a website.
Check with immigration and find out what is going on, maybe the are doing random checks to catch people out, we all know from this forum that many people break the law perhaps they are clamping down.
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Why isn't it harassing? If I was at work, and immigration (three of them!) came into our office, and asked me a bunch of questions relating to my DH? What would my boss think? What would be colleagues think?
How did the immigration officer GET the address of your work place anyways? There is NO way the immigration would know where I work, at least not from the areas and information that have been given relating to our helpers.
It is definitely suspicious that it's relating to the helper, immigration NEVER shows up anywhere unless there has been a "report" of some sort from someone.
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The definition of harassment is Persistent words, conduct or actions directed at an individual that badger, annoy, threaten or cause substantial emotional distress. One visit cannot be construed as harassment.....
Again check with immigration on this matter rather than just views on a forum to get to the truth, guessing the reason for the visit etc is really not helpful or sensible.
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thanks for the "english" lesson. But I think your definition would apply to me ... if it happened to me. I would definitely be emotionally distressed, and annoyed.
Noticed I used quotation marks for Harass? It's a figure of speech. Geez.
although, harassed can mean: anxious, annoyed and tired, especially because you have too many things to deal with. (quoted from Cambridge dictionary).
Anyways, good luck with that. Hope it's nothing that you have to worry about in the long run.
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They probably going on random check list, just like police do sometimes when they pull over cars...
They got the work address from the contract and declaration submitted when requesting permission from immgration to get a DH.
They were three and not one probably because the other two were trainees, just like if you ever saw policemen checking people's ID's on the street you usually see them as a group and if you look at their ranks you can notice that most are very junior maybe still attending the Academy.
As much as agree with that practice and I wouldn't mind getting a visit while at work I very much understand and agree with Momoftwo's point, for some people that could be very much "cause substantial emotional distress".
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wow, if they keep doing this from different times and days will be a dangerous situation for those who let their helpers work at their office and those who have part time helpers ans stay-out helpers. I think immigration is trying to crack down illegals, like what they do in the bars in wanchai, hunting helper's that do hooking at night (they are the normally live-out helpers) and also tourist who go for working in wanchai
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
'One visit cannot be construed as harassement....'
Then how many visits can be justified to be called harassment?
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my question is still : HOW did the immigration officers get the work address of the op ? Unless there was a squealer, there is no way they would know where you work!
I wouldn't be saying all this if the op said the immigration went to her home.... (would be still strange) but possible for multiple reasons.
Immigration do not do this at random. (I already asked my reliable sources, the do this IF there is a lead.)
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Mumoftwo, If the OP has an employment visa immigration will know where she works.
Are your "reliable sources" immigration officers? if not, how do they know?
I think you're overreacting a bit.
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"my question is still : HOW did the immigration officers get the work address of the op ?"
If you are the declared employer of the DH i.e. you submitted the applications to the immigration, you also declared as part of your income also your place of work.
"Immigration do not do this at random."
If that is 100% correct then all you need is a 'nice' neighbour or other 'friend' which is narrow eyed to come up with a story, just like people call the social service and 'inform' them of child abusing and other 'true' facts.
I don't think it should be made such a big story if one has nothing to hide and done nothing wrong.
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surely the answer is for hkwatcher to go to immigration for an answer rather than people guessing as to what it was about.
I guess common sense would tell you that FKKC, do you think the police would be interested if you made a complaint about one visit from a person/ company asking you about something or do you think it would take several visits before they would look into it ? The first visit may be unpleasant and inappropriate but unless they persist after you have shown them they have it wrong i don't think anyone would be interested.
perhaps a neighbour thought they were using their helper at work or that so reported it and this is why they checked it out. While we wouldn't put our employment details on a notice board for the world to see it's not exactly a state secret either and many people know where we work so it's safe to assume the same may apply of hkwatcher.
I hope you find out what really happened hkwatcher and can get back tyour peace of mind.
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"'One visit cannot be construed as harassement....'
Then how many visits can be justified to be called harassment?"
The rule of thumb in the US is three events for it to be defined as harassment.
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
axptguy - thanks for enlightening me (as I definitely do not have the 'common sense' to know the answer). Wonder if it's the same rule here?
What if the nature of one visit is damaging to a person - does it still need 2 more to make it into a case? Just wondering again!!! (not refering to the 3 officers hkwatcher mentioned as anyone feels differently towards a deed/action he/she encounters).
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A friend of mine had also been visited at work, apparently they are cracking down on live-outs, etc as owners of buildings where these boarding rooms are contained (illegally by the way) have been complaining.
In answer to the above Immigration have every right to come to your place or work, their powers in some cases exceed those of the Police. All employers of DH provide their work details as part of the application process, and in any case these details are checked against the IRD database to make sure everything is up to date.
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like I said, someone has to have "complained" in order for the immigration to do that.
My sources are from "inside".
Regarding the "work details" as part of the application process.
My contracts, my mothers, my mother in laws, my 6 friends (who are stay home mothers) all have NEVER had to mention anything about work place/address/ or related details.
It's NOT required as part of the application procedures/information for hiring a DH.
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Well ours was, and was certainly part of us hiring a DH - the details are in front of me now. Maybe because we are "local", but don't think that's the case as such. Same as many of our friends, but again all local. Seems Immigration are not checking on those with work visa's so they do not actually know if they have enough salary to pay a DH.....strange maybe a race relations issue in there somewhere...need to look at that.
Anyway overall I don't see what is wrong with a bit of checking now and again. I mean it's not as if illegal things have happened ever in the employment of FDH........!
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There are "red flags" for which they'll keep a close eye on.
1. Employer and helper are of the same race, e.g. both are Filipino, etc.
2. Employer lives in a small apartment with a lot of people. There are cases which the Immigration ask for photos of living room, bedrooms, main door, etc while processing the visa.
3. Employer lives alone.
4. Employer stated certain job duties outside of normal chores in contract.
If you sumitted the ID407K or ID988B form with your office phone number, they can simply call your office and ask for the address.
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"1. Employer and helper are of the same race, e.g. both are Filipino, etc."
I agree with you. I just wanted to point out that the word "race" in this context is very old fashioned and is considered quite rude by many people. "Nationality" or "ethnicity" are more appropriate.
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Hi all,
I don't know for sure, but I think we had a complaint against us by an unhappy customer (we have our own business) My DH speaks Chinese fluently and one time she (my DH) tried to talk to her and help her. This lady took us through several court cases, and we finally settled what you might call a "no fault" case. I believe her final shot at us was to tell IMD that we used out DH illegally at our office. (Not true)
However, one thing that bothers me is this, if we DID have a claim against us for this, why aren't we allowed the chance to
1)know what the claims is specifically?
2)Tell our side of the story?
After some consideration, we think we will be visited a few more times because of this and I hope it will be finished. Not too scared though since we don't use the DH at our work.
BTW we are permanent residents, but I don't think that is relevant to the case because this type of information is already known by IMD. They require proof of address and proof of income to hire a DH, visa status isn't that big of a deal.
edit to add: We do not consider this harrassment, and we do not wish to pursue some sort of "closure" with IMD about why they came since we think it will make us look guilty! So that's the end of it from me... lesson learned.
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