Posted by
abiagil10
16 yrs ago
Thanks for advice regarding helper going to Malaysia. I had no idea i was not responsible for paying the air fare. Only i have told her i would due to my ignorance so now I'm in a pickle!! She has been with us for 2 months and so far so good only today i noticed she went out and had locked her room. Why would a helper do this? After all she has free access to my house i honestly find it rude. Am i overeacting?
Please support our advertisers:
Yes you are overreacting.
I will agree with cara. We wouldn't dream of entering her room without permission (unless we smell smoke or something), but our kids have less understanding of privacy.
Please support our advertisers:
If you mean that she left the home for her day off and locked the door after her and I presume that is is the type of house where there are no separate servant qusrters, then it is RUDE! Finally even if she stays in that room, it is part of your house and so ----.It is not a boarding house or hostel.If she was in, then it is ok.You ask for advise but you set the rules in yr house.That's my opinion.
Please support our advertisers:
If it's to stop kids running into her room, then fair enough, like cara and axptguy said - kids don't understand much about privacy and peeking into other people's property. But even then you can tell your kids not to enter.
Since you said she is doing it only when she is away, then it's your decision since it's your house and you set the rules. Like telling your own kids not to do the same thing when they hit teenage years.
However, I think the big question is- how do you tell/ask her not to lock the room? ;)
Please support our advertisers:
She may have worked for an employer that went through her things when she was away.
This begs the question: What reason would you have for entering the room while she is away? If you're not entering anyway it's a bit of a moot point.
If you feel she should leave the door unlocked, by all means tell her. But she needs to feel confident that the privacy of her room is respected. I don't even know if our helper locks her door because I have never thought to check.
"Like telling your own kids not to do the same thing when they hit teenage years."
I dunno. A helper is not a kid, and certainly not the employer's kid. She is not strictly part of the family and is entitled to more privacy than a child of the family.
"I presume that is is the type of house where there are no separate servant qusrters"
Like a separate section of the house? Whether the maid's quarters are just a room or in a separate section of a larger dwelling is irrelevant. Privacy is privacy.
Please support our advertisers:
cc77
16 yrs ago
"Finally even if she stays in that room, it is part of your house and so ----.It is not a boarding house or hostel."
Yes, it is not, but the helper isn't part of your family so she has the right to do so.
"She may have worked for an employer that went through her things when she was away."
Very true! Some employers invade their helper's stuffs during their day offs. That's rude!
"What reason would you have for entering the room while she is away?"
Hehe, I was actually going to ask the same question.
Please support our advertisers:
gum
16 yrs ago
This is a tricky one and I must admit that I will be uncomfortable if she lock her door when she is out. Not sure why - I haven't really given it much thought. If she is in the room, I don't mind if she locks her door.
So I told her to leave her door open when she is out so we know that she is out and that we do not want to be knocking on her door and disturb her just to find out if she's out (especially on her day off) and it worked!
Please support our advertisers:
I don't understand why it's a problem, it's their room and nobody should be in it when their not home so what's the big deal if they prefer to lock the door when there out. I would of thought there where enough potential problems without creating ones that really don't matter.
Please support our advertisers:
"So I told her to leave her door open when she is out so we know that she is out and that we do not want to be knocking on her door and disturb her just to find out if she's out (especially on her day off) and it worked!"
Indeed. An open and honest dialogue solves most issues.
Please support our advertisers:
cd
16 yrs ago
Yes you are over reacting and no its is not rude. Your helper is you employer and not a family member, and is entitled to her privacy. It is her room, and nothing to do with you whilst she is living there. My old helper always locked her room when she went out, it wasn't a problem, its just like her own front door.
I do think you should be able to hold a spare key, but only to be used in emergencys. My current helper hardly ever locks it, but I'm ok either way.
Please support our advertisers:
A helper is not an employee per se. One cannot state that as a fact when discussing relationship in the house. No one goes and lives with their bosses, in their houses sharing kitchen, toilet, bathroom etc. after working hours.
The relationship is different and unique and I believe that if the fact that the DH lockes her door disturbs the "boss" then she should say something about it. It's her house. No one here sits in their office wearing a jacket and G-string because it "my office and why should you care? I am still doing all my work"
Please support our advertisers:
"It is her room, and nothing to do with you whilst she is living there. "
Your typical laws in Western countries state that everything you bring to your workplace is subject to search and so forth. So you have no real privacy. But since helpers combine workplace and housing I don't know if that sort of thing applies. I don't know what the law states in HK.
Having said that, I think that as a matter of decency and respect she should be entitled to privacy and her room should be considered off limits unless:
- There is an emergency like a fire.
- You suspect she is hiding illicit substances. In any case you should search the room with her present.
- Her room seems to be a health hazard. Again, she should be present.
"A helper is not an employee per se."
Yes she is. Everything must start from that fact. The fact that she is a very special employee does change things, but she is an employee. In my opinion, a lot of the problems that helpers have during their employments stem from the fact that employers either forget or ignore the fact that she is an employee and thus entitled to different things compared to a family member (or a slave).
"No one goes and lives with their bosses, in their houses sharing kitchen, toilet, bathroom etc. after working hours."
Servants have done this for thousands of years. The special working relationship doesn't change the fact that she is an employee. She may become almost like a family member, but she will still be an employee.
"No one here sits in their office wearing a jacket and G-string because it "my office and why should you care? I am still doing all my work""
Come on. If she sits in her room naked outside of "duty hours" how is this a problem? Where is the need to have an unlocked door?
Just like cd, I don't care either way. A spare key is all I ask for.
Please support our advertisers:
ours lock their room when they go out AND when they are in it. Even thought I never say anything, it does kind of tick me off! Why should they - we never lock our bedroom or anything! I would never go into their room without knocking and waiting to be let it. Agree, it is annoying - feels like they have something to hide... But on the other hand - I do say nothing... not worth the aggrevation
Please support our advertisers:
I agree with OmaHarrison - it is not an employment issue but one about shared living. Although generally less contentious, it is comparable to curfews on Sunday night and smoking in the house - none of these concern the terms of employment but all relate to the rules of the household. People have a right to feel comfortable in their own homes.
In all these cases, if it makes the employer uncomfortable then she is within her rights to say something - she's the owner (or lease holder) after all.
Privacy is not dependant on a locked door - our helper leaves the door open when she is out and closed when she is off duty but home. No-one - not even the dog (!) goes into the room when she is out.
Thinking back, I've had only one helper who locked the door, and while it didn't worry me at the time (I only knew she locked it because i'd see her fumbling with the key when she returned home) the relationship I had with her was more guarded and less open.
And for those who insist that this is an employment issue, most offices I worked in had open door policies - it does make a better work environment.
Please support our advertisers:
This is all ridiculous. Why is it such a big insult that she locks her door? Iy's HER room, the fact that her employer is in HER house doesn't mean she is entitled to barge into the helper's room anytime she wishes or is entitled to set the rules about whether or not the helper can lock her own room.
An open door policy in the office is one thing, this is the helper's private room we are talking about.
I can't believe people are saying they won't go in uninvited and then demand that the door be left unlocked! This is contradictory! I believe employers here who are offended that their helpers lock their room are taking it as a personal insult, when, really, it's just about privacy. If this is what makes the unfortunate girl feel comfortable, the employer should respect it! What is the DEAL???
Employers don't lock their bedroom doors because they are in the privacy of their own homes throughout the flat/house they rent. Helpers only have this tiny little room to call their home, aren't they entitled to preserve their privacy, especially if they do so in a way that isn't taking anything from you?
Please support our advertisers:
cd
16 yrs ago
To idsllvn, actually I do lock my bedroom door, if I'm getting changed or something and I don't accidentally want my helper walking in.
I still don't see the problem, a helpers room is their room whjilst they are working for you, all a locked door means is that they want their privacy. They get so little, is it really that hard to give them that.
Please support our advertisers:
"And for those who insist that this is an employment issue, most offices I worked in had open door policies - it does make a better work environment."
Their room is not comparable to an office environment, the rest of the house is. You don't leave the front door of your house open so that your fellow office workers can walk in whenever they want do you?
Why would you want to enter the DH room on her day off anyway? Is she not entitled to privacy?
Please support our advertisers:
Calm down Elodie - in reading these threads, there is no "big insult" nor does it appear that anyone is "barging" anywhere.
As to your comments on privacy, you seem to say that a lock is necessary to preserve privacy. I disagree - privacy is about respect for another person's space. Locks relate to trust (or lack thereof).
So, fundamentally this is a discussion about conflicting emotions:
1. the helper locks her door (presumably because it gives her a level of comfort); but
2. the employer feels that this shows a lack of trust and it makes her feel uncomfortable.
It seems that you think that the helper has a greater right to feel comfortable in this situation and perhaps, because of your thoughts on privacy that is right for your household and others in this thread.
But not all households are the same and no-one is obliged to be politically correct or follow the general consensus of this forum in their own homes.
What harm can come from speaking to the helper? It may be that it makes no difference to the helper whether the door is closed or locked or left open but she is acting out of habit. It may be that she likes knowing that her employer trusts her and wants to be trusted in return. It may be that the employer realises that it makes little difference to her but a big difference to the helper (and so agrees that the door remain locked).
I agree that this is a small issue but, if remains unresolved and the employer stays uncomfortable, it may fester and grow.
Please support our advertisers:
Evil Deeds
What do you see in my post that makes you think I "want to enter the DH room on her day off" or that she is not entitled to her privacy?
My point about the office environment was to do with trust and communication - the reason most work places have open door policies.
I agree that a home is not comparable with an office environment and reiterate that this is not an employment issue. However, I do think that trust and communication are the cornerstones to any living or working relationship.
Please support our advertisers:
smallfry, you made the reference that privacy is not dependent on a locked door. However many posts previously on this forum suggest the opposite - you know the ones - "I was cleaning my helpers room when I came upon condoms, birth control / morning after pill, etc, what should I do........"
So, maybe that is your policy and you stick to it and if you do fair play to you. But many don't and the issue is that there is a big DH community out there and they do talk! So they understand that in many households their stuff is snooped through which is not right.
Trust is a 2 way issue, although there are many who believe it is one way only.
Not sure what your reference is to an open office, no one can just walk into our offices off the street and no one can walk into my office either without asking or knocking on the door..........
Please support our advertisers:
FKKC
16 yrs ago
Why don't we put away all keys except the front door - then everyone is happy and it wouldn't be an issue anymore.
Please support our advertisers:
FKKC
16 yrs ago
Most rooms can be locked on the inside so if the employers/helpers need privacy, that will do. Hopfully this helps!
Please support our advertisers:
The fact is many of the issues on this website come down to personally choice and what offends or upsets one will not offend or upset others so why bother posting such subjects in the first place. If you don't like the door locked then tell her so. What people on a forum think is not gonna change that you find her locking her door rude. All you need to decide is is it important enough to have a potential problem over it? if so then you need to talk to her and ask why she locks the door etc and see what she says she may have a very good rerason for doing so. Her thoughts and rights are just as important as the employers and i don't think any of us would take kindly to our helpers telling us we couldn't lock our bedroom door when we went out should we wish too.
Please support our advertisers:
"What harm can come from speaking to the helper?"
Very wise words. Just talk to the helper and work it out.
Please support our advertisers:
we had a helper that stole money from ours... who on her day off, would do this.
There is no lock on her bedroom door, it's a sliding door that only locks with a latch if you are inside.
Anyways what she did first few months was, she would put a piece of paper in between her closet doors. If anyone opened it, guess it would drop, and she would know we opened the door.
We found that out one time because, in the huge closet in that room, we had some baby stuff stowed away for selling 2nd hand in the top shelve. We went inside to get it once when she wasn't home. Then we noticed it.
I then asked her about it, and she said, she's sorry, it's her habit because her previous employers were very bad and would go through her room while she was out.
Please support our advertisers:
Momoftwo. First you mention that she stole money, and then that she used a tamper indication device. These are separate things. If she wants to use something to show if someone has been in the room that shouldn't be a problem, and has no bearing and whether she steals or not.
In any case I find it rude that you would go into her room when she is not there. In a way you justified her use of the piece of paper. You DID go into her room while she was out.
Please support our advertisers:
agree with axptguy - it winds me up that ours lock their door - because I would NEVER go in the room without them in it or asking first...
Please support our advertisers:
Evil Deeds, I agree trust is a 2 way thing - that is why the OP thinks the helper's conduct is rude - she, the employer, trusts the helper with her house and her children ie her most precious things, but feels that this trust is not reciprocated.
As to "open offices", I'm talking about an "open door POLICY" ie the reason behind employees keeping their doors open to the people they share a space with.
I find this situation comparable to group or shared housing. When I was a student I shared houses with other students. Clearly each person's room was their own domain but no-one locked their rooms and most of us left the doors open unless we were in the room. Unless there was a reason to go into someone's room (eg close a window because it was raining) no-one did and we all managed just fine because we knew that privacy was about respecting personal space, not about locks.
The only share house I knew of where people did lock their bedroom doors was one where 3 out of the 4 residents (my friend was the 4th!) had heroin habits. It was the strangest house - the living room had a sofa and two chairs which had been rescued from the street and nothing else as the Tvs and stereos were kept locked away in the bedrooms to stop flatmates and flat mates' friends from stealing them! Locks = lack of trust.
a helpers room is just that - her space in the house which needs to be respected but it is not hallowed ground or sacred. I think that most people have better things to do with their Sundays (and are too busy) to want to spend time in the helper's room (tho i did have one friend who was so pleased with the decorating job she did in the helper's room she liked to visit it for the first few weeks afterwards to admire it!)
Finally, on privacy, i think helpers actually have more privacy than most employers - think what you know about your helper's personal affiars and what she potentially knows about yours? I'm not complaining - the price of live-in domestic help is loss of a bit of your privacy. But we have no reason to go into her space while she has a genuine reason for coming into ours.
Please support our advertisers:
smallfry. That post was one of the best I've ever seen on these boards. Eloquent and to the point.
Please support our advertisers:
"Finally, on privacy, i think helpers actually have more privacy than most employers - think what you know about your helper's personal affiars and what she potentially knows about yours?"
Depends how you choose to live. I use a safe at home, my helper doesn't even know what I do for a living! It's my business and she like many others is one of my employees.
"a helpers room is just that - her space in the house which needs to be respected but it is not hallowed ground or sacred. I think that most people have better things to do with their Sundays (and are too busy) to want to spend time in the helper's room"
Agreed to a point. There have been many threads here before where busybodies like nothing better than to poke their nose around their helpers stuff on days off and report their finds here on a Monday!
"I agree trust is a 2 way thing - that is why the OP thinks the helper's conduct is rude - she, the employer, trusts the helper with her house and her children ie her most precious things, but feels that this trust is not reciprocated."
Well a simple analogy is this. I trust my employees in my office, which I actually own, not lease. Now a walk around and I will find that desks are locked, etc. Surely they should trust me enough, and their colleagues to keep their desks unlocked?
Please support our advertisers:
this is exactly my point - if they lock the room - they have something to hide? that is why employers have a right to be worried...
Please support our advertisers:
"this is exactly my point - if they lock the room - they have something to hide? that is why employers have a right to be worried..."
Well, it could be that a previous employer entered the room while she was away and she is wary of a repeat. A simple conversation will solve that.
"Surely they should trust me enough, and their colleagues to keep their desks unlocked? "
That is the way it should be, but the world is not perfect. But I have worked in many places where we were encouraged to lock our drawers and lock our laptops into docking stations because of stealing. Granted, that is not really applicable to a household with only a few people.
Please support our advertisers:
FKKC
16 yrs ago
evildeeds,
BTW, how did you know the desks are locked? Just curious.
Please support our advertisers:
axptguy38,
my point was, I TRUSTED her (as smallfry's post so briliiantly summarized) however, the trust is NOT reciprocated because the helper had problems with her previous employer. My point was, she is the one the couldn't be trusted, yet she would do all these things to ensure WE are not going through her things.
When I fired her, she had to clean her room immediately, as she dug her things out, there were 4 bags (big black garbags bags) of clothes and handbags that were ours that she said she THOUGHT we didn't want anymore.
They were bags of things I put aside, but certainly NEVER gave them to her.
So trust is a two way street, the reason the helper couldn't be trusted (with her previous helper too) is because she does a lot of things that doesn't EARN the trust that the employer should have in her.
Anyhow, locking door thing- I think one can talk to the helper, and tell her it's not very nice because it means the helper doesn't trust the employer's family, while we as employers have to trust our helpers so much that asides from a safe, my helpers know EVERYTHING about our household ....
BTW, I went inside the room to get something that is MINE, in MY house. What's wrong with that?
Just because it's a helper's room, doesn't mean I can't walk into it does it? There are many households that doesn't have helper's room, my previous apartment didn't, so our helper had our "study" as her room. In there was a wall of closets that had part of our belongings in there. What's wrong with that?
It certainly beats those helpers who doesn't even get a room, they just sleep on a sofa bed or mattress each night after everyone goes into their room.
Please support our advertisers:
"BTW, how did you know the desks are locked? Just curious."
Simple really, by them asking for keys to their desks and seeing them lock them before they leave. Plus my own personal rules in relation to laptops and other mobile equipment that I supply to them. I thought that would be obvious!
"That is the way it should be, but the world is not perfect. But I have worked in many places where we were encouraged to lock our drawers and lock our laptops into docking stations because of stealing. Granted, that is not really applicable to a household with only a few people."
Agreed 100%. The original comment, as I'm sure you know, was tongue in cheek! Laptops and other valuables are of course locked up, we supply the best Kensington cables for that reason also.
Please support our advertisers:
"BTW, I went inside the room to get something that is MINE, in MY house. What's wrong with that?"
Nothing I suppose. But as you said you had your own belongings stored there. For stuff you suspect she has stolen, it it best to wait for her to be present. That way she can't say something like "I never put that there".
Please support our advertisers:
cd
16 yrs ago
To Momoftwo,
Actually while it is your helpers room, yes it does mean that you can't just walk in there. You choose to have a helper to clean your house, obviously that means that they are going to have access to some of your personal items, but you choose to give them that access and trust by employing them. Part of their contract as a live in helper is that you provide a room, and while they are in your employment that is their room, their space. Not part of your house any more as such to have free access to.
Please support our advertisers:
I see it a bit like the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment on quantum physics. Since we will never try the handle and don't know if our helper locks it or not, the door will from our perspective be both locked and unlocked.
Ok I guess you have to be a real geek to come up with that.
Please support our advertisers:
it's unbelievable how some people in this forum are THAT black and white...
My helper borrowed my blow dryer one morning before she went out, didn't put it back in my bathroom, I was looking for it everywhere, figured that 's where it probably is. I went into her room, took it back.
Ultimately, the helper can be any way she wants, it's just whether the employer and family can accept it.
Please support our advertisers:
cd
16 yrs ago
I would have a huge issue with my helper using my hairdryer, repsect works both ways, I would not use any of their stuff, and they should not use any of mine, especially without asking.
Please support our advertisers:
agree, borrowing your blow dryer, no, no - crossing boundaries i think... which we should all have no matter how nice we treat our helpers.. still has to be boundaries...
Please support our advertisers:
momoftwo didn't say that her helper couldn't use her blow dryer and hadn't asked only that she hadn't put it back. Her issue was that that was why she had gone in her helpers room without her consent.
Please support our advertisers:
locked rooms... hmm.. from a helpers point of view..
i used to keep my bedroom door unlocked and my stuff in unlocked boxes.. but after i found out that my employers wife went in my room and rummaged thru my stuff and left my closet a mess, i started keeping my personal papers, passport etc in a small locked cash box. my personal documents isnt part of my job nor she has to see them. it would be like me asking her if i can see her passport.
its a matter or trust i think. we clean the employers houses, but we dont go thru the things that we are not supposed to handle..
Please support our advertisers:
Miggy
16 yrs ago
I agree that both parties should not cross boundaries. Like using personal stuff of the employer or helper. I mean, I know for a fact that there are employers who do not take a bath or shower every day. My gosh, would you (helper) actually want to use the personal stuff of those employers who do not value personal hygiene? Same goes for employers.
Both my family and my helper take a bath/shower at least 2x a day (in the morning before we go to work/school and before she works and at night before bedtime). Given this, we still respect each other's personal belongings.
Please support our advertisers:
Wow so much stuff happening here...
All i can say is..if you don't want your helper to lock her room..buy her a closet,a safe, or a locker..that only her(helper) will know the combination.
i know it's a trust thingy..but WE helpers are not asking for your(employers) keys or numbers to your safe..yes, we have access to your room,for us to clean..but not go search anything to your private stuff..or even use your personal stuff.. i myself doesn't like anyone else to use my own comb.
Me,i lock my room specially on my off days not beacuse i don't trust my employers..it's beacuse i don't want them to see my mess,as i..always keep trying on some shirts and change and just throw it on the bed..during my day off.
As what im saying...if you don't want your helper to lock THAT room in YOUR house...give her a LOCKER..
Cheers!
Please support our advertisers:
Please support our advertisers:
With all due respect, knowing what kind of lifestyle and background that many DH's come from, it's probably the first time in their lives that many of them have ever had anything of their own ... their own room, with their own things, in a nice home. Is it really too much to ask to let them have a key to their door so that they feel like they have a bit of dignity and privacy? Some people have said that their helper can go into every room of their home, but they feel untrusted when their helper locks her own door. If you want her to clean your rooms, what other option is there? It's our choice whether or not to employ a helper, but it should be her choice if she wishes to lock her door or not. I don't think it's anything to do with trust, except perhaps in a small number of cases when a helper may of had a bad experience with a previous employer snooping through her things. If anyone really does have a major issue with this, then just speak to the helper and find out the reasons why she prefers to lock her door. Tell her that you feel as though she doesn't trust you and you find it a bit of an insult, or you find it rude. As someone has already said, she's probably got an explanation for it, which needs to be respected. Unless you have any real cause for concern it shouldn't be an issue.
Please support our advertisers:
< Back to main category
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail