Posted by
PuiK
13 yrs ago
Dear All,
I feel like I have more than enough.
She's worked for me for 3 months now. She's clean but very untidy. Like she would clean and after that everything is messed up. She doesn't know/want to put the things back in right place. I have told her to tidy my bathroom over 6 times, still, til this morning i still asked her "why is my bottle like this?" My stuff has been like this since 3 months after i moved in to my new flat. With food, we give her cook book, dictionary, she won't touch them. She only wants to stay at her comfort zone and cooks the only things she knows how to cook (ie Chinese, not fancy, boring chinese). My husband is not chinese so he doesn't really like to eat her chinese. She doesn't read, learn, ask, she only does her own things. I kinda feel like she hopes that one day my husband eats enough of her chinese cooking so he will not complain anymore. I asked her last night why she doesn't cook what SIR wants to eat and why she always sticks with her own cooking? She again said "sorry sorry sorry" but after the long sorry session she doesn't change. I have sat down with her, yelled at her, disappointed with her, did all that, she still hasn't really changed. The only thing she says is "sorry tai tai" I don't know if that's called stupid.
I am pregnant so i will give birth by the end of the year. She said she has no experienc with children despite she has 2 kids (she said she didn't take care of them). At first i was thinking she can learn, but now i feel that she is scared of everything. She acts like she's always panicking. But after all the talk or yelling she's still smiling and laughing with my dog. I don't know if she actually cares what i say - as nothing has changed.
She doesn't want to put any afford on anything rather than her own comfort zone. If she is happy with cooking eggplants, she would cook eggplants every week. And if i tell her to cook mushroom instead, she would always try to avoid it. She doesn't tell you that she doesn't know how to cook, she would just put the mushroom at the back of the fridge and wait until it goes bad and throw it away. I saw it myself one time and had a go at her. Instead of buying it again and ask me how to cook, she just never buys again.
Whenever she calls in the afternoon to ask us if we want dinner, she almost expect me say 'no'. If i say yes, she would then panick and say "oh tai tai i don't know what to cook" She never surprise me with her idea. Seems that i have to take care of my office, my pregnancy and my husband. If i ask her "so what you have in mind" she would always say the chinese dishes she knows how to cook and i eat tones of times. IF i say" look at the cook book and let me know" then she would say we don't have this and that in the fridge and tries to ask me to change my mind.
I know i am not staying at home too much and i can't train someone how to cook - but at least she can read cookbook right? Or is that too much to ask?
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fire her immediately , and get a new experienced one , don't forget ur baby will be here soon and u r working , it will be hell if ur helper can't take care of the baby...forget food/cleaning etc...baby is no. 1 priority , AND THEY NEED TO be takne care of in a clean enviorment and if she is not good tell her OUT!!!!act fast
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Why did you employ her in the first place? she does not fit in with your family now, let alone when you have the new baby.
If you want a good helper with provable child caring abilities, the only way to find one is by personal recommendation by the last employer, not written, face to face talk with an employer who is relocating.
The fact that a helper may have one, two or more natural children does not qualify them for looking after other babies and young children properly, because helpers children are not brought up by them, but left in usually their 3rd world country of origin with relatives to bring their children up.
Your helper sounds as if she is not gifted with and common sense or motivation, as you have a baby on the way you need to think now, are you going to keep her and the stress, or start the search for another recommended helper, take the time to interview her properly, ask about various recipes you like, ask about aspects of child care-how she would deal with this and that etc.
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Have you tried giving her a menu for the week that she has to follow and include the recipe in the list? Like for example Monday this for lunch and dinner so she has to shop for the ingredients for those meals. That way, she won't just cook what she wants to cook but will be forced to cook and learn what she should cook.
Your helper should make your life at home easier, but if she isn't helping then it's time to find a replacement.
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PuiK
13 yrs ago
Thanks for your input
I have a full time work, i leave home really early. I have told her that whenever she has a question she should come and ask me. I have asked her to get the dictionary and i had to asked for for over 3 weeks for her to buy one. (I was willing to pay for it) Now she never looks at it. All the cook books are lying there and she just doesn't want to try. Whenever i ask her to cook somthing she starts panicking. She always has this face like "oh my god oh my god oh my god" and then she starts saying "tai tai i don't know..." Like before thinking of trying she would give me this face first. I am just soooo annoyed with her after she give me such a face and I just can't be bothered to teach (i know this is not good either) But when you are having a staff who doesn't want to learn it's hard to push her to learn. I am started to adjust myself around her - like if things are messy i organise it myself, if things she gives me are not great i will just remake it myself. I just hate seeing her panicked face. I somehow feel like she's thinking i am like a witch or a step-mum in the fairytile. I am so tired. ESP baby is on the way...i wanna cry.
Today i asked her "why is that no toliet paper in the bathroom?" (even the carbinet has got no toliet paper in it) She went "oh it's in the storage room" so i asked why is that in the storage room she said it's just there. The storage room is like beginning of the hallway and my bathroom is like at the end of the hallway. I asked her to re-heat the frozen pie for my hubby last night and it was still cold when it was served. My husband said "it's not hot" and she just stood there and looked at him and said "but already 30 min i cooked it" and no one did anything. She just stood there. I looked at her and went "but it's not hot, so go and put it in the mircowave?" then she brought it back. Like she's got no common sense or somthing. I can only roll my eyes and sigh, what can i do?
How can i trust her with my baby? i don't know.
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I agree with Cara, not everyone is confident enough to speak up when they don't know something (remember the kids in class who would never say boo to a goose?). From your description she sounds to be an anxious and timid person, and the exasperation you express in your post, even if it is 50% displayed to this helper will help to drive her further to despair.
It is important that you take the time out and the initiative to teach by apprenticeship. She by the sounds of it is afraid to do the wrong thing and by default ends up doing nothing. When faced with aggression/exasperation she withdraws. She obviously can learn enough to cook some Chinese dishes, which no doubt, someone else has managed to teach her. You need to find some time to generate some lists for her to follow, teach her to cook some recipes, give some positive re-enforcement when she does something well if you want to keep her on. I always believe to have a wonderful helper you also have to do a lot of work as an employer. With my two helper one has loads of initiative but the other needs list to work off, both have found their rhythm and have their own sets of strengths and weaknesses, as do I. Different helpers need to be managed differently.
But given the relationship is probably irretrievably broken, best to move on and find some one new and not to make the same mistakes with the new helper.
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I don't think yelling at helpers is right, or yelling at anyone for that matter, but then that's just me. If they make a mistake I just point it out to them, if they do it again, I talk to them again. If it is something that they keep repeating I give warnings, verbal then written which they know could lead to termination, and more often than not, things change for the better.
I agree with what cara and lagrue have said...
Your helper obviously freezes when she thinks she has made a mistake or not done the job well. She's terrified of you and your wrath.
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PuiK
13 yrs ago
While i am appericated some of yous' input, I'm also quite surprised that we here to focus on the 'yelling'. I have mentioned that i tried to sit her down and talked to her, wrote things on the paper to her, repeated 5-6 times to her. And at the end when he kept on doing the same mistake over and over - yes, i finally did yell. I was like " How many times i have to tell you? This is really going to be last time!" and again things like that happening again.
Why would i want to hire someone and just to yell? It's no good for my health esp i am pregnant for 5 months now. I wish i don't need to even get angry if you ask me.
Thanks for suggesting about the training and guidance. Yes i didn't really train her for cooking but i don't expect more than what i told her. I have told her many times things like putting the things on the correct place after you move them around. I have trained her to do things with my dog and etc.
I am paying for her phone bill and i expect her to pick up the phone when i call during day time. She never hears the phone ring when she's on the bus. Today i needed her urgently but again she missed my call. When she called me up i said to her "do you mind to put the phone outside of your bag so you can hear me?" She then said "sorry sorry sorry i don't have a cord" I said what cord? she said a cord..honestly i don't know what she was saying when she was panicking. At the end she mentioned 4 times about the cord (i think she meant the thing you put on your neck) then i said "then put it in your pants pocket so you can hear me" She kept saying "oh but i don't have a cord i don't have a cord". I lost patience really. I don't yell, i just get really annoyed. I am thinking " I am already paying for your phone bill, i just expect you to pick up the phone when i call during the working hours. I have given you a suggeston. You keep telling me your problem. So what do you want?" Of cuz i don't express this to her otherwise she may just get panicked again. I know by the end of the phone call i sounded really unpatient, so what could i possiblly do? People get emotional don't they? Doesn't she just act like she's brainless or it's just me thinking that? Do i have to train her for this?
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holy cow! reading your posts, i would not want to have to work for you!
you used the words 'stupid' and 'brainless'. that says a lot right there.
if what i am 'hearing' through your posts is coming through the same way to your helper, i would be scared too!
maybe you should try and find a course on people skills, management skills? if you dont have the time or energy to go outside the home, have a look online? there is loads of information on the web. you obviously know your way around a computer a bit--use it to your advantage. do you have friends that work and manage people outside the home as well as their own helpers without issues? if they do have issues they are able to resolve them in a way that works for both parties? ask them?
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PuiK
13 yrs ago
Somtimes when i read posts from here i see people saying that 'some DH has got uni level and they could be nurses and teaches back home. They are coming here just for the money" This maid has worked in HK for more than 4 years.
I am thinking of going to the book store to get some books with her language. Hopefully she will be able to do more with these type of cook books.
I never complain about her not able to take care of kids. I knew it the first day i hired her. I am prepared to pay for classes for her too i already told her the other day. The point is, being so careless just to put things on the right places in my flat, and getting so panicked when I or my husband talk to her, I just wonder if i can trust her with the baby that's all.
I understand i am always under alot of stress with my own business. That just makes it worse. Iam not saying im always right here.
Inkpot88 - I agree with you.
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puik, why you do this to yourself. You employ her, she is not working out. Let her go, pay her out and get someone else. Anything else is just shadow boxing
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puik, maybe you could start by getting her a cord. If that's her reason of not answering her phone when you need her, you could buy her one. This would lessen your frustration also.
Her being scared of everything is a big issue, if you ask me. When you have a baby, you want to be confident that she can handle a baby - that she won't be too scared.
If she is not able to organise herself now with cooking and housework - misplacing stuff and inability to handle simple recipes, what's going to happen when you need her to cook baby food or when you need stuff more organised with a baby?
You have two choices. The first one is to spend time training her so she knows how to clean and cook before baby comes, then spend time training her on how to prepare for a baby. The other choice is, if you have no time to train, is to let her go. You work so you'll be worried when baby is home with her. I can smell disaster. You really need someone with more initiative and more in control if you work.
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Fire her!!!! u have a new and very important member coming soon...like i said before ur baby is priority , just imagine a classic case , after 3 months u need to join work and ur helper says "tai tai " i don't know how to take care of the baby or feed her milk or cloth her or many things...i am still saying look for new helper...balance if u r trying to teach a mule to sing u will be more depressed..all the best
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give her one month's notice/pay and let her go. find a more experienced DH. Pay more for that if need be.
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Fire her. find someone that isnt so timid but at the same time that can take your "are you stupid?" look.
Annoyed, frustrated = exasperation = scares the crap out of her.
Stop assuming she can read your mind. You assume your common sense is applicable to everyone. i can safely say... not true lol.
"why is this bottle this way?" are you serious? does it need to be exactly parallel to the mirror but perpendicular to the faucet? OCD much?
idk,. fire her. get a new one.
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PuiK
13 yrs ago
Joeis8salt - if your boss is asking you to do filing THIS WAY, would you say to her "are you kidding me"?
I may be picky. After i have been picky on the same thing over 5 times she's still doing the same thing. I don't know what that means.
Yes i will fire her. Just for the sake of the newborn. Thanks very much for you ladies's input.
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@puiK - for me if the bottle is clean and on the right hand side of the faucet, i'm golden.
For others. it might not be that way. If you're picky over the same thing and you feel like you've explained yourself clearly without scaring her then its time to let her go. lol filing papers. Reminds me of the episode of Friends where Monica let Rachel help fold clothes. thats a funny episode. I give it 2 thumbs up.
good luck with your future helper. you dont need the stress esp with the baby coming. all the best.
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PuiK does sound like a scary boss. Maybe she's not going to like it too if she's her own boss.
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So here's a crazy idea, it sounds to me that your helper may be illiterate! Maybe she can not read or write, also bare in mind many Helpers come from Very poor backgrounds, they have never seen a dish washer, oven, microwave, vacuum, toaster, kettle, or iron, I had a helper that would boil the kettle under the power point so all the steam would go on to the power point. my helper had never seen any of this before arriving in Hk, with guidance they can be great as mine is the best helper I could ask for but they all have to start somewhere.
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its very simple you just hire new one, i know that filipina helper they are good and caring so if you want your baby to have a healthy living hire a filipina helper ( with loving and care)
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"And if i tell her to cook mushroom instead, she would always try to avoid it. She doesn't tell you that she doesn't know how to cook, she would just put the mushroom at the back of the fridge and wait until it goes bad and throw it away. I saw it myself one time and had a go at her. Instead of buying it again and ask me how to cook, she just never buys again."
You figured out that she didn't know how to cook mushroom...did you teach her how?
If you want your new helper to do things the way you want them done, you have to set aside time and teach her yourself especially since you are very particular with the way things are done. If not, you will start yelling at your new helper again, endless cycle.
As others have pointed out, not everyone is confident to speak out or ask so if you suspect she doesn't know how to do certain things, take the time to teach them.
And try to treat your helper as you would want others to treat you when you make a mistake.
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HKM3
13 yrs ago
I actually empathize with the OP. After experiencing competent helpers who have taken such advantage of me (naive foreigner) before I was aware of holidays, pay, etc., after having helpers steal, abuse my children, and play every game known (my husband thinks I should write a book) including providing false references, disappearing with signed contracts, tricking me to get fired so they could get back home, and I could go on, I now have a helper not unlike OPs. She's been with me nearly 5 months and yet every Friday I still have ask her to clean the refrigerator, she just can't/won't do thinks automatically and has absolutely no initiative or common sense. I have spent tons of time attempting to train her (and she literally has three tasks in the house at this point because she can't "cope") and it just falls on deaf ears. This is true for just about everything she does. It's exasperating, but I'm exhausted and just can't go through the routine of hiring/firing over, and over again. And she's not illiterate or challenged in any way, she's quite capable of snooping through my husband's briefcase, which I've caught her doing. I'm actually happier on her days off because I'm not so tense.
If someone is poor back home, it doesn't make them a good helper - or a good person. Some people are simply not cut out for this work.
And just because to them I'm a "rich employer" doesn't mean I'm an evil person. I genuinely need help and back home in a free market I have never had difficulty finding it.
The system here is really messed up, and taken advantage of. It's not fair to employers that despite someone's incompetence we still have to pay them one month's notice. (I don't like someone living under my roof once they've been terminated).
OP, fire this helper. It will never get better with her. Just make sure the next one you hire has real experience with children. I've met many who want to work with children (they think it's easier) but once they get to it have absolutely no clue (I think children are more work than housecleaning). Absolutely call the references, they do matter. If she can't provide you references don't hire her - it's YOUR home, and your life, and your new baby...you have to protect your family and your sanity first.
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PuiK
13 yrs ago
I went home last night, thought about everything i have heard from this site. Positive of negetive, didn't matter. I accepted it. 2 days ago i complained that was no tomatos in the fridge. Last night, still no tomatos. I was shocked. I sat down and thought about it and realised that by saying "i always need tomatos in the fridge and i am not very happy when there is no tomato" didn't make her to go and buy tomatos. I actually had to say "i need you to go buy tomatos" and she would go buy. I somehow may have treated the empolyees in my office and my maid at home the same. I somehow feel like she's more like a robot, i should program things in her mind to make her do things. OK i accepted it.
I sat her down one more time and had a long chat with her for more than 1 hour. I told her repeatly what i wanted and i had her writting all the stuff down. i said to her she should try to make us happy by cooking some new dishes. I also said if you need to go buy a cookbook in indonesian language, go find it and tell me how much. Honestly i do not have the time to teach her how to cook all the dishes. I can teach her to do salad and stuff - quick stuff. I get very tired after work and i work on sat as well. I don't believe that "if you don't train her then u should not expect anything" That's crazy. She's been a maid for more than 4 years.
Some people up there are saying i am a scary boss. Maybe i am, so? That's not the point. She can quit if she doesn't want to work for me. It's useless to sit there to complain about your boss, you should do your best to make your boss to like you.
Alot of people are saying how poor they are back home and how lonely they are alone in the country. Also they compare myself to her; husband, house and etc. So should i have a lower standard just because they are poor? They are here for a job. It's their choice to come here. IF they are sad and poor they can sit in their room after working hours and cry their heads out, when they are working, they should put their 100%. Correct me if im wrong.
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I agree - fire her. Too late to get the relationship to work which is a shame because it sounds like she's a good person. Personal recommendation is definitely your best option.
But it does sound like you are a difficult person to work for. Maybe you should try to change the way you interact with your new helper. For example written expectations or a menu...
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Hugie
13 yrs ago
Send her to me....my wife is an x helper with 20 years of HK experience, fantastic cook, chinese, western, you name it she can cook it! Me, I am an x chef from the the UK. We will have her trained up in no time.LOL! Have fun.
PS I just read that she is Indonesian! Hmmmm changes things a little!
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PuiK, I can hear the frustration coming through in your post and can see you needed to vent your feelings but, honestly,I really feel for your helper. By the sound of things she works hard and tries but you are too busy to put in the effort to train her and you yell at her when she doesn't put away a bottle in your bathroom cabinet which you left out.
Indonesians are wonderful, honest, friendly people and in our experience great helpers. We hired a part timer (Indonesian) early on in our time in HK and now have a full time Indonesian helper. One personality trait in Indonesian helpers in HK I've found is subservience and sometimes timidity to an extreme. This is in part why they're preferred by so many chinese employers who expect to treat them like dirt and they just keep trying to please.
Our helper came to us with almost no English after having worked for Chinese people for 6 years and after a year with us, we couldn't imagine our household without her. She had never used a vacuum before working for us so I had to show her the different heads and fittings, carpet setting, hard floor setting, etc and I had to show her the way I wanted her to do things if my way was different to her way but if I don't put my moisturizer away when I'm done with it or if I leave my hair dryer out once I'm done and she fails to put it away, well that's just my own laziness and untidiness getting in the way, not her incompetence.
It seems she likes to smile and laugh with your dog because the dog smiles back and makes her feel appreciated. Perhaps if you used a little of that psychology, you might find you get further with your relationship. Perhaps sit down with her and say, 'Let's start fresh. I'll try to not raise my voice and I'll take the time to show you how I would like things done and you can do some things I like such as not apologizing all the time and cooking varied meals'.
See how that works for you. Best of luck.
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PuiK, You are right that your work employees & a domestic employee cannot be treated the same. I cannot assume your helper is poor in their home country, that is not always the case. Some of them even have Uni degrees and other situations that have sent them abroad for work. We do not know.
I agree that on her bio she had certain experience & so you expected it to be true but it was up to you to test that information. You may have a person who "beefed" their resume.
I agree that you shouldn't have to train a person when you hire them. A maid should know how to clean and so on. You might have to teach them how to use your vacuum. She may not know how to do meal planning or even keep good records which as a business person yourself you might want.
I am with you on putting items back. No one should have to go around behind their helper & straighten things. This could be negligence or power play. I use thumbs up-thumbs down to get that idea across.
As someone mentioned a person with children probably doesn't raise them. Relatives or a helper do. Example, my maid back in the Philippines who makes US$7 day hires a person to do her housework and watch her kids. She also has a house, cell phone, color tv and cable. The cost of living is not the same.
I'd put your conversation concerns in writing so she can read it or have someone else read it to her. Include what you want, hopes for a respectful happy relationship and so on. You might have to meet weekly to discuss things. I still have weekly meetings, it only takes an hour.
Your family is the priority and if you don't look forward to seeing a helper then they are not helping. If you decide to keep her you must start over & be patient. You might also want to carefully inquire as to whether she can read what you are giving her. Many people speak a language but do not read it. Ask her how she feels when you raise your voice, she might be honest. We don't know if it bothers her or not. I once gave my helpers "culture shock USA" w/ areas marked and they not only laughed about it but got over my wanting to discuss things directly. In their culture you use a go between. You might also check on her stress level. Are there problems w/ family, money or another reason she is so distracted?
You might be hiring another helper for childcare. Good luck.
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if I don't put my moisturizer away when I'm done with it or if I leave my hair dryer out once I'm done and she fails to put it away, well that's just my own laziness and untidiness getting in the way, not her incompetence.
I don't think this is fair to the OP. Fact of the matter is, when you hire someone to be a domestic helper, they are tasked with doing domestic chores. Perhaps tidying up is one of the jobs the OP expected her helper to perform. There is nothing wrong with that and it is not 'laziness' to require her to do so, so long as she is trained/taught how to do it, that it is her job and that her daily tasks are not overly burdensome. Same goes for other tasks that an employer of domestic helpers may ask their helpers to perform, including cooking, washing up the dishes, scrubbing the toilets. Where do you draw the line between laziness and jobs suitable for a domestic helper?
I do not agree with the OP however that helpers should be shouted at. I know she's probably doing it out of frustration and stress but still its not appropriate. It shouldn't happen in the office, and hence it shouldn't happen in the home (which is the helper's office).
Finally, it may be correct that the OP's helper can not read overly well. Also tasking her to buy a cookbook, or even the dictionary, well...firstly she has no idea how much you might allow her to spend (and she sounds extremely timid anyway) and is afraid of buying something too expensive, not useful, basically getting it wrong! Secondly, if she really has no idea about the cuisine you would like her to cook, how would she know what would be a good cookbook to buy (again afraid to mess it up), hence default position is to do nothing. You could help her by buying these said books for her either from a bookstore or online to obviate the problems I have suggested. Also teaching her to cook, do chores may not necessarily need to be done by you personally, if you can afford it, send her to lessons. Other families I know keep an outgoing helper long enough to teach the incoming one the way they like the house to be run. Learning by apprenticeship.
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PuiK
13 yrs ago
I agree with most of your suggestions. Yes the shouting shouldn't be happening in the household. I somehow lost my control. Maybe becuase of my status of being pregnant is one of the reasons but that doesn't mean it's correct.
I am more calm now maybe becuase i just came back from a holiday. There are + and - with all kinda relationship and this is one. Let me share with you to see what's your input.
+
She's really clean
She has a good heart
My dog is very well with her
-
She doesn't know how to take care of a baby
She's panicked whenever somthing's wrong
I do want to keep her, at the same time i don't want to be worrying while i am at work. To hire 2 maids is out of the questions because i have one maid room, and there would be too much to spend.
Is going to classes going to be helpful for her? Or you do need an experience one with the newborn?
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Is going to classes going to be helpful for her?
-it really depends on the maid whether she is willing to learn.
Or you do need an experience one with the newborn?-for the newborn, I suggest getting one with experience...also u said that she will get panick when something goes wrong. it probably can save you the hassle.
maybe buy a bunk bed in the maid room.
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+
She's really clean
She has a good heart
My dog is very well with her
-
She doesn't know how to take care of a baby
She's panicked whenever somthing's wrong
the three positives are important for the new baby. The fact that she doesn't know how to take care of a baby is irrelevant, she can learn. The panicky bit is a worry, but it really depends, on what this means. For me, it is better that they worry about things than not worry/be too dismissive (basically could care less) (my first helper was like this, very confident but dismissive, even when my baby had a serious fall in the park whilst she was on the mobile she NEVER called me, needless to say she is long gone). Does she have common sense when dealing with your dog? Or does she mess things up? Will she be honest when she has done something wrong and confronted about it?
I think having heart is really important, in some ways more important than having experience. You can not teach someone to have a kind and gentle heart. Having said that it is possible to find someone with heart and ability. We all on this forum don't know her as you do, so only you can make the final decision, it is more a go with you gut decision in some ways.
Finally classes and training are definitely helpful if she is willing to learn. Unfortunately if you are a fussy person, finding someone experienced may mean that they are experienced but don't do things the exact way you'd prefer. In this case it is better to train from scratch.
Good luck!
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PuiK
13 yrs ago
Lagrue - thanks. I agree with you completely.
Thanks very much.
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Hi there.....I have EXACTLY the same problem! and believe me my husband and I have always made it easy for her to communicate with us......we are pulling our hair out now though.....this completely sux! My last helper I only had to sit her down to talk 4 times in 4 years and they were mild things. this helper non stop, she basically doesn't care about her job, although she is a nice girl ( ie. smiles all the time) she seems completely brainless on the job and has ruined endless items of laundry, failed in the kitchen completely, feeds my kids potato chips and tell me that was their dinner etc etc! I'm going insane. Only way she would be a good helper is if she worked for a Chinese family who could be bothered giving her direct orders all day, and didn't have to mind children.
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