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Helper is a loan shark

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ORIGINAL POST
Posted by iamexpat 15 yrs ago
Inadvertently I discovered the other day that my helper is a loan shark. It came about as she had accidently left her general ledger out on the dining room table and not knowing what the book was a flipped through it. At first I was concerned that she owed people a lot of money but it soon dawned on me that she was the one lending money.


Her operation appears to be relatively simple in that she normally lends about $1,000 or $2,000 out per account and never more than $4,000 to any individual. In typical Pilipino fashion the interest rates are usurious and on an annual basis work out to over 200% per year. (I.e she will lend $1,000 to a person and expect to be paid back $1,200 the following month so a 20% monthly rate of interest).


I had three initial reactions upon finding this out. The first was good for her, she really fits into the entrepreneurial environment that is Hong Kong (she has been here for 10 years). The second, although somewhat jokingly, was I wonder if I could give her some money to put to work for me at those rates. The last was whether this has any negative implications for my family.


I talked with my wife about it and we could not think of anything really negative other than she might focus more on her lending side business than her current job. We pay a bit more than the minimum wage and right now her lending business pays her about the same. All her clients appear to be fellow helpers, at least based upon the names written in the ledger and her capital base is only around $20,000 but growing quickly in the year or so it appears that she has been doing this business as she gets her salary from us and about $4,000 of interest a month.


As for our helper she is good, the kids love her and she does a decent job looking after the place and we don’t really have any complaints about her.


Are we missing anything? Is this anything we should be concerned about? Given that the dollar amounts are small and just in the DH community I don't think there is any need for concern about Triads or anything like that.





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COMMENTS
Wiz Bang 15 yrs ago
wow i should look into that business!!!


seriously though - there are two trains of thoughts here...


1. whatever she does on her free time is her own business so long as it does not affect her work and the family she works for.


2. loansharking on the side - is it legal for her to do so under the employment contract? would it be considered like doing part time, and if so like part time then would the employers be equally be liable for the helper taking on duties aside from the one stated in the contract?

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cookie09 15 yrs ago
am pretty sure that loaning out money in this form is illegal irregardless of part time work or not.


in order to run a business lending out money, you need to be licensed by the government. not doing so carries up to a HKD 100,000 penalty and 2 years imprisonment... -> see money lending ordinance Read More


the question is whether your helper forms a money lender that falls under this ordinance. if she loans only to her close friends, i guess that would be ok. but the way she is running this, she must be falling foul of this ordinance and the DH ordinance at the same time

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Starbucks2 15 yrs ago
I have a feeling that this would fall foul of the Money Lenders ordinance for being illegal lending and also fall foul for the interest rate being so high.

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iamexpat 15 yrs ago
I am not concerned whether it falls under the Money Lenders Ordinance or not as from a legal perspective I don't think I am any more responsible for her behaviour outside of her DH job than I am for the behaviour of the hundreds of HK people that work for me. It is her business whether it is OK for her to do or not (although given how much triad loan sharking goes on I can't really see any authority caring about some maid lending to other maids).


My main question was whether my wife and I were missing anything in terms of whether there is any way this would impact us. In terms of her DH job our helper is fine and the kids love her.

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hkwatcher 15 yrs ago
You have a DH that is one of many hundreds of HK Dh's who lend out money. The loan shark types who prey on girls in Central will only lend out large amounts, that is about $30,000 at one time. Therefore, someone who will lend smaller amounts (like your DH) are quite popular. This is a very common thing, even though we might not agree with it, still w/o collateral, a DH in HK needs to use this type of lender service or face the large companies who are often cheats.

It will impact you if she pays more attention to her lender job that you family

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cookie09 15 yrs ago
isnt there a rule that you are responsible as a landlord if your DH is doing a part time job? not sure about it though

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Wiz Bang 15 yrs ago
exactly my point - loan sharking is like part time, it is illegal and employers are liable

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Susie1 15 yrs ago
I would be concerned if my helper was doing this, because only last year somebody on (DB) websight posted that their helper had, had, her bag snatched and was beaten, apparently by other helpers who had loaned her money, and she couldn't afford to pay it. So that is the other side of the story, maybe it is only small amounts here and there, but do they get nasty if loans are not paid ?, It is illegal for dH's to run little side line business's, if it was my DH I would not like her working for me.

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notyou 15 yrs ago
Yikes! I didn't know this existed. I am not sure what you should do! If it ever came out that you know, you would have a problem, but the liklihood of that is very small. Not sure what to say except I thought I'd seen every helper issue there was and this is a new one!

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Leahred 15 yrs ago
I agree with Susie - I wouldn't care so much that it was illegal as all helpers seem to do something on the side. My worry would be what tactics she uses to get back unpaid loans and what kind of people she uses to do this - will there be retaliation and could this happen if she is recognized out with the kids one day ?I'm sure unpaid loans happen alot - what does she do about it and where does she draw the line, does she have the same kind of morals as you or me over issues with those sums of money. I wouldn't want anyone in that line of illegal business looking after my children.

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Susie1 15 yrs ago
I will add that the original poster on the DB websight who was the employer of the filapina DH attacked, was advised to let police know about the attack, but the Dh was too scared and said they would attack her again and her employer if it was reported. The employer removed her original Post. The people threatening her got away with it.

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MCB 15 yrs ago
A number of them do. Mine borrowed from a company and did not pay back for a year or so and recently we had goons at our door and non stop late calls in Chinese. As an employer you are not not HK law responsible of your helper's debts, and you might not be aware that she is doing this. i have discovered the same about recently too. She actually lends money to to others at an incredible rate.

Very recently also she had her hands tattooed and when asked what it was about she explained she joined a "support group" called Guardians Hong Kong. Full name is "Guardians Makati International HK", and on the other hand she has the initials for Magic Group tattooed. I could not get an proper answer as to what they do and how they support each other, but I have a gut feeling that this is related to her debt and she wants to chase the girl she borrowed the money for and who is now in Canada and not paying her back.... Very complicated... Rock bottom: Helpers are meant to help us not create any more work or concerns!


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Britsabroad 15 yrs ago
I dont think we should all be so quick to judge this poor woman - I am sure that if we dig deep enough we can all find skeletons in our closets involving some form of illicit dealings.....................she is probably doing this for her familiy and frankly speaking if people want to borrow from loan sharks they should know what they are getting into from day 1

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Britsabroad 15 yrs ago
I dont personally have a helper but it would not bother me if I did have one and she was on the game or a loanshark as long as my shirts are ironed and the flat is clean (including under the roof) then I would be happy. BTW is she Filipino or Indonesian, I here the latter are into all sorts !!!!

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iamexpat 15 yrs ago
We have decided that we are not too concerned about it as she is currently doing all her helper jobs to our satisfaction and the kids love her and she takes good care of them.


I am not worried about her going around beating people up for money as from what I could gather the individual loan amounts are small and I do not think she would be the type to cause trouble.


As for what she does on her own time as her employer I do not think I have any more of a legal liability concerning her than I do the few hundred Hong Kong people I employ. Not only that but while I have my suspicions about her business because I saw a general ledger on the table, I do not have 100% concluive proof. Nor am I going to ask her as I'd only get some BS answer like oh that was my friends book or some other excuse.


As for MCB if you know your helper joined Guardians I would replace her immediately. Guardians is a worldwide phillipino gang. In Hong Kong it mostly is comprised of phillipino men (often working as drivers). I can handle having a helper who lends money out on the side in a small operation living in my house but a gang member no way. I'd not hire a Bllod or a Crisp or a Hell's Angel in the US to work for me in my house, no way I'd hire someone from a triad or guardians to look after my kids here. If you want to know more about Guardians just ask any phillipino here they will all be able to tell you about them. I suppose like the triads they serve their purpose and provide necessary services in this big world of ours but raising your children is likely not one of them.

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Wiz Bang 15 yrs ago
if the link i gave mcb was correct - the info is a bit scary


The GNBII is a by product of a long-term benchmarking of the brothers who have been with the first Guardian brotherhood since its formation, promulgation, its rise and its fall.


The original organization being known as DSCB or DIABLO Squad Crime Buster (D-stands for Dauntless, I-Ingenous, A-Advocator, B-Banner, L-Liberty and O-Oneness), who's main operating components are soldiers emanates on 1976. The DS as a fraternity of soldiers operates in a strong brotherhood. In short it was perceived under a military brotherhood anchored under a chain of command

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