I have agreed to take over my neighbour's helper at the end of her contract (he is not renewing her because he is localising). I have not signed any paperwork yet.
This lady is very personable and he has given her a glowing reference, both to me verbally and in writing. She is an older lady with much experience, apparently. However, he is a single guy who is out at work all day, and thus she has little to do, apart from his cleaning/washing and cooking him an evening meal. My husband and I have two primary aged children). She has babysat for us a couple of times, and both times we have come back to find the kids still up late at night, but happy enough. She doesn't seem to be able to lay down any ground rules, but then maybe I wasn't clear enough.
She has been doing a bit of p/t cleaning for others in our complex (her current employer knows about his and doesn't mind), and some say that she is very slow but gets it done eventually. Also, I have knocked on her employer's door a couple of times in the afternoon to talk to her, and she has clearly been asleep in the afternoon, but again, is this because she has nothing to do?
I am having second thoughts, but is this just because I have never had a live-in helper before? I think she's going to get a major shock from working for one single guy, to a family of four, and am a little concerned she won't be able to cope.
Should I just try it and see? - but what happens if after, say 3 months, I'm not happy. I would hate to have to break her contract just 'cos she was a bit slow, because she would have to return to the Phillipines and she has apparently never had to do this. She is well known around our complex, having worked here for several years, knows all the other helpers (helper mafia!) and I also fear being blacklisted as an employer if I have to dismiss her.
Sorry for the ramble. I realise I am ruminating too much. Not sure whether to just try it, or wait as we haven't been here that long yet. Any advice welcome.
Please support our advertisers:
Many thanks for your advice. It's all new to me, so a little daunting!
Please support our advertisers:
To cara's excellent advice, I would add that having "a" helper and "this particular" helper are different things. That is, you need to find a helper that works for you. Maybe this one does not. That doesn't mean you won't benefit from a helper.
Please support our advertisers:
actually before you sign her on, put down your rules and expectations into a written document and hand it to her. tell her that is what you expect from her. if she agrees and fails to deliver, you dont need to feel bad when terminating her later
Please support our advertisers:
If you are having doubts, then maybe wait a while, settle in HK properly, and think seriously if you really need or want a helper. Remember she will be a stranger from a different culture living in your home 24/7, she may be 'set in her ways' especially if she is older.
Find out more about employing a helper as Cara has suggested, and keep your eye on this forum to illustrate what potential problems you can get with a small minority of helpers.
Please support our advertisers:
Tune
14 yrs ago
We don't have one. Although there are times when I wish we did have a helper we have so far managed without one. Most of my reservations are due to the lack of common sense issues I see. For example, a huge proportion of the helpers I see looking after kids have a mobile phone stuck to the side of their head while walking down or crossing the road- it makes me shudder. Employers do not help either- creating an atmosphere of utter resentment and then, and this I find perplexing, entrusting their children and house to those they treat with contempt. No, not for us.
Please support our advertisers:
Tune, you make some great points. However since you are aware of these things you could rather easily avoid the problems you describe.
Please support our advertisers:
Some good advice has already been given here. My family have chosen not to have a helper, we also have 2 kids but would rather my wife looked after them and the house, not sexist its just works better as my earning potential is higher than hers. There are different reasons to have a helper but the overriding one is that Mum can go to work and so create a second income. We did the sums and decided that we would rather not have to pay financially and suffer the hidden costs of having a stranger in the house.
Helpers are not Genies, they may be able to clean to your satisfaction, cook to your palette (doubtful) and shop reliably (eventually). They may be able to look after your kids while you are not there but will they be able to educate your kids and instil them with the human sensibilities you would like them to have? They are your kids so be their parent if you can and not just the breadwinner. You can always get another job but your children can not get another childhood.
All the common sense stuff like crossing the road – too true seen it so many times, but also seen parents do it as well!
Please support our advertisers:
Thanks for all your replies. Have decided to defer employing a helper for a few months or so until we are more settled. I told the helper in question my decision and she took it well, but I feel bad about messing her about a bit - just hope she finds something else. It's the whole live-in thing also I find daunting. Maybe I'll feel braver in a few months' time, but for now will just manage without !!
Please support our advertisers:
i would argue that it need not be as zero sum as cowleyp suggests...you CAN have a helper AND raise your kids the way you want (we do). The helper is there simply for that...to HELP you...we find we have much more free time to spend with our daughter, in the park, out and about, or reading at home, not having to worry about cooking, laundry, grocery shopping and housecleaning...it frees us up for the good things in life! If you trust your helper and can be patient while they learn about all of your foibles, (we're not perfect either are we?), you can have a great relationship with your helper....
Please support our advertisers:
funbobby says it very well.
"Helpers are not Genies, they may be able to clean to your satisfaction, cook to your palette (doubtful) and shop reliably (eventually). They may be able to look after your kids while you are not there but will they be able to educate your kids and instil them with the human sensibilities you would like them to have?"
Actually yes, it is all possible. You have find a helper with the right attitude and manage her well. Our helper is an excellent cook who adapts things to our palate very well. She cleans well, she shops exactly the way we would want. If she needs to make a decision in our absence, she tries to figure out what she would do and gets it right almost all the time (certainly her success rate is higher than mine with regards to wife approval factor). She sees it as her job to learn how we want things, and then she goes and figures it out. This concept is central in how helpers should work, and yet so few employers prize and praise initiative.
As for the kids, I often find myself asking our helper for advice. She has looked after many kids for many years. I only have the two. My wife and I have definite opinions about child rearing, but it doesn't hurt to have an experienced hand to discuss things with. No doubt we are the parents and what we say goes. We aren't delegating the kids to her. But she is a partner in their fostering.
"All the common sense stuff like crossing the road – too true seen it so many times, but also seen parents do it as well!"
If the parents teach the helper their philosophy and she has a good attitude, she will make decisions that the parents would approve of.
I think a central issue is that many employers aren't giving their helpers the leeway and encouragement to really shine in their jobs.
Please support our advertisers:
Expat guy, if you could clone your helper you could make millions, she is the exception I suspect and not the rule, lucky you there are plenty of threads on this forum to back up my supposition.
Please support our advertisers:
honestly cowleyp, you must admit that these boards are usually reserved for complaining about helpers, not praising the good work they do....people rarely start threads about the positive aspects of their helper's performance, but have no problem coming on to complain about every little deviation from their own expectations...i would guess of the 250,000 odd helpers in HK, the majority are doing a good job...but it's easy to focus on the problems...
Please support our advertisers:
I think better do have a helper.You can do it without the helper.It's not about the money.
Please support our advertisers:
"Expat guy, if you could clone your helper you could make millions, she is the exception I suspect and not the rule, lucky you there are plenty of threads on this forum to back up my supposition."
As funbobby says, no one will start a thread about how great their helper is.
We do have a great one. However off hand I can think of at least 4-5 people I know who have stellar helpers. Most people I know have at least a decent one. A lot is about selection and about good management.
"I would say the vast majority of helpers' fall well below expatguy's but also well above all the fray we read about on this site. "
Well put madtown. It's a bell curve. You'll have a few angels and a few demons, with most are somewhere in between. Importantly, though, with good management most helpers can perform better than their "base level". Just like any other employee.
"I would guess most helpers act quite differently when "the boss is around" than when the boss isn't. Raising children is a labor of love....and without the love, the labor might not be as thorough or dedicated.."
Just like in any other jobs, you need to find a person who has the right attitude. One you can trust to act in your stead.
Another factor here is that many employers are afraid to let the child bond with the helper too much.
Please support our advertisers:
"My biggest concern about helpers would be what they are doing behind your back or behind closed doors. I would guess most helpers act quite differently when "the boss is around" than when the boss isn't. "
i would agree on this. i would also suggest that many of the 'issues' we hear about hear come from employers who can't deal with a helper 'doing it her way' instead of as commanded by the boss...if you can accept that there are more that one way to get a job done (and possibly a better way than your own), there would be less stress on the employer/helper relationship...surely most of us put on some facade in the presence of the boss...as long as it doesn't affect ones work output, why sweat the small stuff?
Of course, issues relating to safe, healthy child care (as opposed to other household duties) require closer attention by the parents, but I would hope the really important behavioural child raising opportunities are attended by the parents. If you hand your kid over to the DH for rearing, don't bitch and moan when they don't turn out the way you want them to...common sense I think.
axpt's point about parental jealousy is a valid one. some parents can't get past the fear of their child bonding closely to another un-related house member...this does no favors to the helper, who has to walk on eggshells because of the bosses baseless fears.
Please support our advertisers:
I've had a fair amount of experience on the hows and whys a helper is successful, and I've observed a couple of repeated comments:
1. Helpers who get yelled at in public by the employers lose face (brings shame on them) and they begin to lose "heart." They expect to get corrected when they makes mistakes, but not in public....
2. Helpers who are constantly criticized and never appreciated.
3. The employer has very very high standards that cannot met met within a reasonable working hour day. For example, disinfecting all surfaces 2 times a day, only using towels to mop a floor and only hand washing all clothes are just a few added to the other regular things, often it is 11 pm before they are finished and then up at 6 or 7 makes for 15+ hour a day.
4. Receiving two different sets of instructions from the employer and the Grandmother
Employers common complaints
1. The girl has lost her heart and become lazy
2. She does not obey
3. She has begun to have a bad attitude
4. A helper has backed out of a contract after initially agreeing to work for me. Are they just looking for something better for themselves?
An employer may feel jealous, but the truth of the matter is that HK is upside down with regard to work pressures. Long hours and stress combine together make it nearly impossible to manage a child and a full time job without some type of support. A decent employer is happy, even thrilled to have a helper who can offer that emotional support to a child while she/he is not around. The alternative is indeed a lonely one for a child who is in school all day and comes home to...what? Who is the adult in this case? Who is looking out for what is best for the child? Think about what you want for your own family and choose a helper who you feel you can relate to. If it doesn't work, keep trying until you find one who does fit.
Please support our advertisers:
Please support our advertisers:
Agreed. Well put hkwatcher.
Please support our advertisers:
personally, it's not because we work alot of hours (typically 8-4:30 for my wife and I, plus 45 min commute each way), but because we BOTH work. cara's covered the realities of dual income families with no daycare/family support net here...a helper is the solution for us.
Please support our advertisers:
To be fair Madtown, there are some families where both of the parents have to work to make ends meet to pay school fees, a decent standard of living etc and as childcare facitilities are poor here in Hk the only option is to have a helper. I met a lady yesterday who has a toddler, and has 10 week old twins, I am sure when she planned a brother or sister for her toddler, she did not bank on twins, so a helper is a godsend to her.
There are others who employ a helper, simply because they are available, they let the helper bring up the child, while the mothers get their hair and nails done and discuss the latest fashion over a coffee with their like minded friends. I don't agree with the latter idea of parenthood, I think if you breed a child or children you should take into account and be responsible for their welfare and upbringing if you are a stay at home mum and one salary will suffice, unless you have a bunch of under 4 year olds!! Part of the joys of having children and to see them and help them grow up into responsible kind adults, and should not be left solely to a helper to bring them up for you.
Helpers should be there to help, and enhance what the parents do, they are not badly paid, they have free accomodation, light, heating, food or allowance, medical care, their wage although it may seem small is often more than a qualified Doctor would earn in their home countries, and lots manage to save, pay for houses (in their home country), provide their own children with an education, they often pay for a cleaner in their own place (back home), they choose to come here and work they are not forced.
Please support our advertisers:
Hey Madtown; minimum wage in NY is $7.25 an hour! How many of these Latino DH's are legal? How many HK domestic helpers would bite your hand off for that money? In HK we have discriminated against DH's and exempted them from the legal minimum wage, tremendous value huh more like exploitation of those with no bargaining power, and the majority work more than 8 hours a day I'll wager, shame on HK and shame on anyone in NY employing illegally
Please support our advertisers:
ghie
14 yrs ago
Re: Majority of GDP from OFW (Cara)
The last I read from the Business Today (Philippines publication) private sector is starting to do something about the matter. Mega Corporation is now trying to attract engineers from and/or bound for abroad by offering them the same salary and renumeration.
Bloomfieldtj, good luck!
Please support our advertisers:
cowleyp, helpers also have a minimum wage. And they get paid housing and food. If you factor that in their "actual" wages are much higher than the nominal number.
Not saying they're making millions, just that you can't look at the number only.
Please support our advertisers:
In addition to the government fixed wage, HKDHs are also subject to the same Labour laws that an ordinary citizen is entitled to. Long service pay, disability coverage for the length of time that a medical cert is issued. The Got pays 80%, the employer 20% during the time of disability. Either one months notice or one month's salary in lieu of notice. This is the same for all local HK employers/employee.
Also the medical coverage too and believe me that is a sight better than seeing a Dr. in their home country where it would cost 5-10 times more. If all of these things, food,housing set salary etc. are put together you can see why a DH wishes to come to HK. Another perk is that after 1 year they can apply to Canada, the holy grail of countries for all domestic helpers.
BUT and it is what I have said before, no DH should stay in HK for years and years and become a "career"helper. The losers in that case are the families who have a huge gap in the family dynamic replaced monthly by the money sent home.
Some things in life are worth more than money. If the government instituted a rule that said a OFW cannot have more than 2 consecutive contracts before taking a 2 year break to go home, I don't think that would be a bad idea.... just saying
Please support our advertisers:
I think that kind of rule would be a good idea. Government should not get involved in how people want to run their lives to that extent.
If an FDH wants to go home, she can choose to. Sure, there will be things she gives up to do so, but such choices are part of life.
Please support our advertisers:
My point is that education is necessary to inform OF'Ws that these choices are a part of life, but they impact much more than just themselves, there are children, husbands, mothers and fathers who are affected. Someone ought to undertake a study to compare the children of OFWs and their relationship with their OFW mother or father and then regular parents who stay at home with their kids and raise them. I think the results would be enlightening....
Please support our advertisers:
Well, sure. But I don't think anyone would be surprised by the results. I think overseas workers "get it" today but make the choice to leave in any case. As many of them see it, giving their children a better life is worth the sacrifice. Our helper's kid goes to private school and will be the first one in the family to go to university. She would never have been able to afford that without being in HK.
In an ideal world, countries like the Philippines would combat their endemic corruption and criminality, laying the foundation for an economy that can support its own citizens so they don't actually need to leave. But that's another story.
Please support our advertisers:
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail