Posted by
jen1812
19 yrs ago
We are hiring a DH to start soon. Having never had one before, I'm hoping some of you can share your experiences of being an employer. I have a couple of questions here. Do you allow your DH to dine together with your family or does she eat by herself in the kitchen? To what extent should we make the DH feel a part of the family? Hubby and I don't really like the idea of having a live-in DH but it can't be avoided as we will be adopting a baby soon and both of us work. I'm uneasy about having the DH home alone during the day and keep wondering if she will be going through our stuff or taking and using things. I know trust has to be earned and we need to lay down the ground rules, but has anyone else here been in the same boat? Do you keep all jewelry and important documents locked up? Does your DH help herself to your books if she wants to read, for example, or turn on the TV if she's free, or do you tell her that she needs to ask your permission first every time?
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When we hired our first live-in we tried to make her feel part of the family and this was a big mistake for our helper, and us. She had no desire to break bread with us and, later when we tried to manage her (improve inefficiency) it caused behavior/emotional problems.
You are hiring an employee.
Treat them as an employee.
Be the best employer you can, but be an employer.
Take your due diligence and use the 10-80-10 rule while selecting and managing your helper: 10% will be very positive 80% will be expected 10% will be negative (its just a saying not a science).
I believe that most employees are not thieves, and most complaints of this nature are misunderstandings about food or toiletries, not about outright theft. After all theses employees NEED jobs, and WANT good references.
If you trust someone with a baby, then all other things you could think of would have no equal import or comparable value. Or: If you feel you can trust them alone with your baby then why not alone in your home with your books and jewelry?
The cost of a live-in is having an EMPLOYEE live in your house. This is difficult for all parties involved. EVERYONE loses privacy. And EVERYONE can get under each other’s skin. That may be why many families insist their helpers leave the house for the entire rest day or holiday.
The alternative (one or more live-out helpers) is more expensive and possibly less reliable (reliability and price seem to have a correlation).
No matter what you think of to set up in advance, be prepared to adapt and address all the many events you never thought to expect. You are (most likely) dealing with a different culture and with a brand new experience.
Or as was said long ago:
When people see some things as beautiful, other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good, other things become bad.
Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.
Therefore the Master acts without doing anything and teaches without saying anything. Things arise and she lets them come; things disappear and she lets them go. She has but doesn't possess, acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it. That is why it lasts forever.
If you over esteem great men, people become powerless.
If you overvalue possessions, people begin to steal.
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Get the book - "The Helpers helper" has excellent ideas.
We had our first helper eat with us - the 2nd helper we didn't - we discuss stuff at the dinner table as a family that we don't people outside of the family to be privvy to. Once you start something it is difficult to change it.
Have a work roster, make a meal plan, you make the rules- if you don't want them touching your stuff other than dusting - tell them that.
TV in the daytime..up to you - I wouldn't allow it, telephone during work hours - we had to stop that as everytime I tried to call with an important message - the phone was engaged - her chatting for hours.
Agree with above - you an employer - you need to think like one.
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I would say no, don't have her eat with you. Once you start you will never be able to stop, and this is someone you have never met before. You might not even like her that much (this sounds odd I know, but my first helper I didn't particulary like - she was good with my baby but miserable as sin). I suggest you make sure that the kitchen is a suitable environment for her meals (either a proper table and chairs, or a proper-height stool at the worktop if there's no room for a table). Actually she probably won't want to eat with you - I couldn't imagine eating with my boss every evening...
Then before you even sign a contract, if possible, write down everything you expect from her, so there is no chance for miscommunication. Learning from my mistakes, I specified my wishes on personal phone calls (please avoid duing working hours, except in emergencies - of course this has slipped a bit, but at least we started off well), paying salary in advance (I specified that we prefer not to), calling us as early as possible if she was sick (unlike the first one - waitiing for me to call and find out why she didn't turn up in the morning), also I wrote down that she was to tell us if she had any problems that would affect her work (the first one always had a huge variety of excuses every time she did something bad...). Just write it all down - it's easier for everyone.
Also, about jewellery and cash - I wouldn't put it in a safe, but perhaps it's better not to leave it lying around if you're concerned about it. I know some employers like to do things like leaving a $20 note in a pocket as a 'test' for the helper's honesty. This is diabolical behaviour - as someone mentioned, you trust someone with your children and then do this?
For books and TV, I sort of think her reading your books is reasonable, but it's reasonable for you to ask her to replace them tidily afterwards. TV is up to you - I would give her a TV in her room so she can watch it in there, and ask her not to have the TV on in the day (say it's because of the baby). That is reasonable - I don't watch TV when I'm at work.
Really, if it's your first time with a live-in helper, start off with more 'rules' than you think you need, you can alwasy relax them later but you will find it very hard after 6 months to start laying down the law.
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There are various issues to consider and you should decide what you would be comfortable with. The main thing is to make your expectations clear.
For example, I myself would no way let my helpers read my books, magazines or watch my DVDs any more than I would borrow their stuff. How would you feel if you fancied picking up your favourite novel and went to get it but found your helper reading it? For myself I would not feel comfortable asking for it back when she's right in the middle of reading it. But you may be fine with that or not mind it.
The same goes with sharing food. I prefer to keep the family's food very separate from the helper's. Some people are happy to let their DH help herself to whatever, though. But how would you feel if you really fancied a nice apple and went to the kitchen to get it and found your helper eating the last one? If you wouldn't mind, then probably sharing food will work out for you. As for me, I pay my helper a monthly food allowance and she loves it because she can just buy whatever she likes.
Lastly, it's prudent to consider what could possibly go wrong and how you'd handle it. For example, the idea of putting a TV / hifi in your helper's room. I tried that once. I put a small hifi in my previous helper's room for her to use when the family were out. She played it loud while we were in and when I asked her to turn down the volume she refused, or turned it back up 5 min later. It became a source of disputes.
I totally agree that it's better to start off a bit strict and then relax if you want. It's extremely difficult to 'crack down' if you started off too soft.
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I should clarify - I think it's a good idea to have rules, but not to the point of being obsessive. I sort of think that if you're going to be upset because your helper is borrowing your favourite book then you're probably not the right person to share your house with a stranger...
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zalca
19 yrs ago
i thought i'd add to this. i've been in hk for 14 years. during that time i've had various helpers. i found myself getting more and more cynical as the years passed until i ended up with a husband and wife team who nearly drove me insane. they were passive aggressive horrors. when they finished their contracts i employed a lovely woman from the phillipines but i'd become so jaded and cynical that i couldn't see past her minor errors. it ate me up and i was on the verge of firing her for minor stuff because i thought she was doing things deliberately..
anyway- i had a moment with a friend who basically told me to focus on the good and praise when things go well. as a result of this approach, my relationship with my helper has improved dramatically. i find that i no longer have her as a source of conversation with friends like i used to (awful i know). i know more about her personally- yet we respect each others space.
what i've learned is that we're all different and we respond to different styles. find the right style with your helper and you may see your relationship improve!
hope i've not sounded too smug here by the way. i've had some real nightmares in the past so i know where you're all at...
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Thanks to all of you who responded, and with good suggestions too. I agree that it's important to lay down the rules right from the start and back off a little if the DH seems trustworthy, responsible and capable. We will see how it goes, and hope for the best! Thanks again, everyone. This is a great board with some really good threads...it's amazing what one can learn from reading the posts.
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@@
19 yrs ago
Mrs MIggins,
I will have a new helper starting next month and would love a copy of your rules etc. Would you mind sending it to me?
Thanks.
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HKC
19 yrs ago
Hi Mrs Miggins
Same here, I have a helper starting which is a first for us, can I also have a list of your rules, thanks very much in advance!
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Hi Mrs Miggins,
Would love to have a copy. I'm just in the process of hiring as well...
Thanks much!
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ness
19 yrs ago
Congratulations on the adoption of your baby what a wonderful time for you all. As you have already received lost of advice regarding rules etc I though I would just say that what most people I know do regarding books, magazines, dvds even clothes and household stuff that is no longer wanted is to pass them on to their helper and they either use them, sell them, pass them to friends or send back home. Agreed that most people don't however blur the boundaries by sharing personal items that are in current use in the house... gets a bit tricky to explain that whilst it might be ok to flip through a magazine it is not ok to borrow a limited edition book etc.
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Mrs Miggins, I would love to have a copy of your rules! Please send me a copy if it's not too much trouble. Thanks everyone for the active posts! Your advice and suggestions are much appreciated.
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Hi Mrs Miggins
Could you also send me a copy of your rules. Thanks in advance.
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Hi Mrs Miggins,
I would also love a copy of your rules. Thank you!
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Hi Mrs Miggins
Sorry to bother you again. I got your pm (Thx) but had no rules attached. Could you re-send pls. Thx again
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Mrs Miggins could you also send me the rules either pm or to email helperhelperwhereareyou@hotmail.co.uk (yes it is .co.uk not dot com). Many thanks
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MrsA
19 yrs ago
Hi Mrs. Miggins,
I would also be very grateful to have a copy of your rules and practices. Many thanks
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Hi Mrs Miggins,
I would also love a copy of your rules please. many thanks!
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Hi Mrs Miggins, we are just about to hire a helper too and would be very grateful for a copy of your rules. Thanks very much, appreciate all the sound advice.
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Mrs. Miggins, May I have a copy of your rules too?
Thks!
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MIC88
19 yrs ago
Hi Mrs Miggins, could you please also send me a copy of your rules. Thanks so much for your help.
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Mrs Miggins, your rules are proving very popular! Would you mind sending me a copy too? Thanks ever so much!
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Hello Mrs Miggins,
please can I have your rules too,
Cheers!
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Dear Mrs Miggins,
Your rules seem to be very interesting.
Could I have a copy also?
Thanks.
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dear mrs miggins,
may i have a copy of your rules too? thanks
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ShazP
19 yrs ago
Lol...this thread is become ' Mrs Miggins'...you should start charging us...
As you probably guessed, I would appreciate a copy of your rules too. I have tried everything so far & am going nuts with the many DH's I have had.....thanks in advance for sending it to me!
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Gosh, it's soooo nice to hear a happy story like Woody's. After one false start she's managed to find and retain a good helper.
I agree with so many of the practices Woody has found effective. My helper's duties are usually concluded by 8pm. I've taught her how to knit, so she sits in her room and is making herself a winter blanket (just a decorative one to go over the duvet I gave her). She likes doing that.
I've also given her a tapestry set so that she can make a decorative cushion, also for her own bed. These pastimes are relaxing and it's good for her to have her own interests / learn something new.
Next week she's going to the YWCA to learn Paediatric First Aid. It will be her first lesson there. I've heard those YWCA courses are great, the helpers consider them enjoyable and they also learn a lot.
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Mrs Miggins -0 why don't you set up a free website and put your rules etc on there - then people could visit the websi9te when they need to and you don't have to keep sending emails to all and sundry - just a thought. If you need some help on doing this I can do it for you. (time wise and or skills)
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
Woody, thank you for your posting. We have had a very similar experience to yours, so your advice on 'starting afresh' with helper no. 2 is very helpful.
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hi mrs. miggins.would love to have a copy also copy also.many thanks.
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Thank you all very much for the responses and excellent suggestions given. Woody, I will certainly follow your methods and be more of an employer than a friend. It would be great if we get it right from the word go with the first helper we hire...unfortunately that really depends on luck, the helper's disposition, and how firm/flexible we are with rules etc. Mrs Miggins' rules are also a very helpful resource, thank you once again!
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Hi Mrs. Miggins. Thank you so much for the copy. Its been very helpful.
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Mrs Miggins,
any chance of getting a copy of your rules? Our first ever helper starts in a month. thanks
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I'd love a set of the rules! My helper is fab but I know she won't stay for that much longer (she's good with her money, has plans and goals and when she's met them she's off back to her family, sadly for me...)
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Mrs Miggins,
any chance of getting a copy of your rules? thanks.
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bolly
19 yrs ago
Mrs Miggins
Please could you also send me a copy of your rules? Desperate and thanks in advance.
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mrs miggins, could i have a copy too? i am in the process in hiring a maid since i am expecting my second child. i have no experience whatsover in hiring a maid and i am so nervous about hiring the wrong person and how i should treat them. will really appreciate your set of rules. thanks
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Hi Mrs Miggins
Could I also have a copy of your rules. Thank you in advance.
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Tana
19 yrs ago
Mrs Miggins - Could you please send us a copy as well? Thanks.
Woody - Could you pleaase send us details of your highly recommended helper? Thanks also.
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kooni
19 yrs ago
Mrs Miggins,
May I join the group and receive a copy as well? I believe you may want to start a support group!
Thank you.
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Hello Mrs Miggins
I'd love a copy as well please if I may? Thanks very much!
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s8899
19 yrs ago
Hi Mrs Miggins, could you please send me a copy of your rules for DH? My email addess is :
scarlet8899@yahoo.com
Thanks!!
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Hello Mrs Miggins, I would be grateful for a copy of your rules for DH too.
Thanks very much.
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KJB
19 yrs ago
Hi Mrs Miggins
Could I also have a copy of your rules. Thank you in advance.
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Hi Mrs Miggins, could I please be sent a copy of your rules? I too am new and about to hire an amah. Thanking you
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Pls can someone post that list here, I really do need it, did ask Mrs Mggins for it,but somehow didn't get it.Nooffence,maybe something wrong with my e-mail.Thanks
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Bumpkin, great post. Your intuition is right on.
I seriously doubt any helper is going to fully digest Mrs Miggins' "rules" unless she takes it back to her room and studies it every night for several months and consults a lawyer on the side. The document will get signed, but it won't be adhered to.
At the end of the day, the only purpose the document serves is to protect the employer's butt if she decides to terminate. However, it may also give the employer a false sense of security that the household is being managed properly. If one has to spell out "DO NOT SHAKE THE BABY", then you've hired the wrong helper. The document should not replace an employer's common sense and common decency.
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Thanks, Mrs Miggins, for posting your rules - very interesting reading.
Personally, I think such a set of rules are a useful starting point to what should be an ongoing dialogue. Of course no employer can cover every possible future scenario in their notes, nor should they have to.
In my house I give my helper(s) a set of notes every time I feel the need, which is usually once every 4-8 weeks. It could be an update on how I want my babies cared for, as the children grow and change, the appropriate childcare practices change.
Or it could be something I've noticed that hasn't come up before and I just want to clarify. For example, once I noticed my helper trying to teach my 2 year old to pray. I'm sure her intentions were good, she probably just wanted to get him into good habits, but I prefer to handle religious matters myself, so I politely asked her to leave that to me and wrote it in my notes.
Also, I almost always agree a time period with my helper within which she should notify me if she finds of my requests unworkable or impractical. After that period is up it is understood that I expect her to be doing as I've requested.
My notes are only short, usually only one A4 side (typed) or even half a page, but it's a good way to update my DH.
And yes, I do think it's good to ask the DH to review her notes from time to time. Until recently I was a schoolteacher and I used to have a quick review of the staff handbook from time to time and/or e-mail communications in order to make sure I was doing things right.
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The point of the rules in my home is multifold. First we go over the rules and job duties with the helper when they start. Then we all use them as a reference when discussing work. We also do a monthly review with the pay slip that is directly connected to the rules and work list. Thus the helper gets regular written feedback to the rules and task list.
Written words are far more effective than spoken words because everyone has a clear unambiguous reference to the standard. There is much less “oh I though you said…”
I could give the cooks in my shop verbal instructions to go cook a dish, or I can give them a recipe. With the recipe I have a much greater chance of success and we all have a reference to the standard when things don't appear correct.
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The point of the rules in my home is multifold. First we go over the rules and job duties with the helper when they start. Then we all use them as a reference when discussing work. We also do a monthly review with the pay slip that is directly connected to the rules and work list. Thus the helper gets regular written feedback to the rules and task list.
Written words are far more effective than spoken words because everyone has a clear unambiguous reference to the standard. There is much less “oh I though you said…”
I could give the cooks in my shop verbal instructions to go cook a dish, or I can give them a recipe. With the recipe I have a much greater chance of success and we all have a reference to the standard when things don't appear correct.
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xox
19 yrs ago
Hi Woody,
I sent you a PM.
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