Posted by
kungfu
20 yrs ago
Hi! Before employing our new helper, we agreed that she can take two weeks unpaid holiday in the summer.(She hasn't been home for two years.) Her previous employer and us should share 50/50 for her tickets. It is also understood that we will not get involved with her personal financial arrangements.
However, within 5 hours of her arrival. She told me that she has used up the money her previous employer gave her for the airfares. Can I pay the full fare first then deduct from her monthly salary later?
I view her using up the money her previous employer gave her as her own decision. I am very reluctant to get involved with her financial arrangement... Now I am in two minds whether to keep her or let go as I feel there might be more to come... What would you do?
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ness
20 yrs ago
If you are asking wether you can legally deduct the money then it will depend on how much you are paying her per month. See this government website - or because I can't sleep tonight I have cut the relevant section out for you. :).
http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/hkvisas_5.5.htm
Deduction from wages
43. No deduction may be made by an employer from the wages of his/her Helper other than as permitted under the Employment Ordinance. Examples of deductions allowed under the Employment Ordinance are:
A. deduction for absence from work not exceeding a sum proportionate to the period of absence;
B. for damage to or loss of the employer's goods, equipment or property, subject to a limit of HK$300, and other conditions as stipulated in the Employment Ordinance;
C. deductions for the recovery of any advance or over-payment of wages made by the employer to the Helper but subject to a maximum of one quarter of the wage payable in one wage period.
44. Except with the approval in writing of the Commissioner for Labour, the total of all deductions, excluding those for absence from work, made in any one wage period must not exceed one half of the wages payable for that period.
45. Under the Employment Ordinance, any employer who underpays wages commits an offence and is liable to a fine of HK$200,000 and to imprisonment for one year; and any person who unlawfully deducts wages commits an offence and is liable to a fine of HK$100,000 and imprisonment for one year.
Not sure how much half of an air ticket is but you should be able to recover the monies advanced for the ticket over 1 -2 months without seeking permission from immigration. I assume you do not need to pay here for here time at home as she will not have accrued holidays if she has only recently joined you, or you can advance her the holiday time but she does not quite seem that reliable as yet.
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Two main points here:
(1) Deduction of salary
This is not really a deduction. It is only whenyou pay her next month, you hv to return some money to you right away because she owes you some money. Make sure you put down EVERYTHING in black and white and ask her to sign for understanding and acknowledgement.
(2)As far as I know, a return ticket to the Phil. only costs abt. $2000 or so that means if her previous employer gave her half and that means she had spent roughly $1000 in advance of her holidays. Most of helpers do no carry a lot money in HK because they need to send money back to their families. It might be difficult for you to borrow money from your friends or relatives, because morally it is not acceptable. If you want money, you wl plan and then you will borrow it from a bank or so. Basically Filipinos have a different mentality. To make the story short, as long as she is not borrowing money from finance companies and if she is a good helper, then I wont mind too much about it. But if you think you are taken for a ride and is not uncomfortable with her, then just follow your instincts.
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Sorry, I was not very clear from on my first post.
OUr new helper is ASKING me to pay in full then deduct the fares from her salary later.
It's not a large sum but I am not comfortable that I am "forced" to lend her the fare. ( She would have to exit HK the first year she work for us. If we don't lend her the fare, she can't make the trip.)
Although she's got good reference from her previous employer,I am astonished that she's already making demands the very first day she joined us.
She's also keen to let me know that her friends who work for the expat families only focus on children's play dates and they don't do much housework or not have much time to do house work. ( My previous helper looked after our 3year old and did the housework efficiently as well.)
Something is not quite right. I still can't make up my mind whether to give her another chance or just terminate the contract. On her part, she doesn't seem to see there's anything wrong to demand what she did though...
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I think that if you have this feeling, it's better to look for another one now !
I know it's not an easy decision but it seems that you don't feel confortable with her anylonger.
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My helper just went back "home" for two weeks. She had only been working for us for 6 weeks. Long story but we were fine with it. She text us to extend her stay four days and I informed her that she had been paid for that time and therefore owed us for the extra days. Then text to say ran out of money need more. I wont tell you what my husbands exact words were but he said no. What had happened was we were too generous and of course you give them an inch and they take a mile. Dont get me wrong my helper is still fantastic but I am more aware now. I was then concerned that she wouldnt come back but she did. Then I thought what if she is really upset and treats the children badly because we said no to her second advance. She wasnt so all ended well. We stood our ground and gave her the message of not to ever ask for an advance again as we would not give her one. She had abused our generosity and it wouldnt happen again. MMMMMMMMM that make us sound like really nasty Employers but we were warned to keep things on a business level not friendly. Now we have a balance a bit of both.
So in response to your thread I suggest that you dont send any money regardless and tell her not to abuse your good nature.
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F100
20 yrs ago
Listen to your gut feeling.
if she doesn't have enough money this month,
how is she going to get through next month.
what she said about helpers not doing any housecleaning because they look after the kids is BS.
even if you tell her this, you know her attitude. basically, nothing or very little is going to get done.
also, with this money thing...you might have to worry about her "taking" from you.
it's very easy...$10 here and there from the groceries.
food for thought.
if it was me...i would follow my gut and look for someone who is more responsible.
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:-)
20 yrs ago
Your helper's real attitude is coming out now..it's like she's telling you that she doesn't want to do household chores...you didn't employ her just to look after your kid(s) right? i think that you better find another one..
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ness
20 yrs ago
Expat helpers may get paid a little better but I think they still work very hard... I am in the Peak area with lots of families with usually 3 or 4 kids in a family and generally only one helper. Some of the extremely wealthy local families with kids at he school have several helpers who focus on different area but in general unless there are twins or lots of babies close to together just one helper looking after quite large apartments/houses, 2 to 4 kids the cooking and housework. Can't think of a single family where the helper only focusses on the childrens playdates.
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In fact, we told her during the interview that we're not going to get involved with her personal financial arrangements. What shocked me was her demand comes within hours she started working for us.
She has "overlooked" a request which's important to us. Somehow, we don't think she's going to pay much attention to her duties once we refused to advance the money....
On another note, if we terminate her contract now, do we give her a one way ticket or return tickets? (She didn't go home after completing her previous contract.)
Thanks all for your advices and kind help.
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Ueberempfindlich,
These problems definitely do arise no matter what you do; I'm sure others who asked "the appropriate questions in interviews" will agree. I myself had the experience of outright telling my helper the rules, but still having them be broken. It's not only about communication; it's also personalities, though I agree that we must do our best with the communication part.
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MC
20 yrs ago
Kungfu, Not sure if you are aware, one result of you not paying is that she could "borrow" money from those finance agencies which could be very very troublesome for you later on. My helper who has been with us for 6 years had this problem at the beginning. It was a scary experience for me. We kept her and luckily she has worked out so far. Now we advance her money when she needs it (not big amounts).
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Hi MC,
I am aware of the borrowing from finance companies and that's why we prefer not to get involved with DH's finance arrangements.
In this case, our new DH has not work for us more than 5 hours when she made the request. We wouldn't mind if this DH has worked for us a while and we knew she has a good working attitude.
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Hi KF, This sounds all too disturbingly familiar. I say get rid of her. We have just had a year of trouble with like problems and it put a strain on the household. Get someone who is a real team player. All the best. By the way, our DH finishes in three days. Yee ha!
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Dear All,
We finally let go of this helper.
In this case, she thought she could "nail" us once she's got her working visa and I have paid a huge sum to get her from an employment agent.
We're now "helper-less". The search goes on. My friends suggest to look into Sri Lankan helper next time round.
Thanks.
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Well, my advice is dont just go for their nationality. My ex-sri lankan helper stole money from our shopping money and I sacked her just because of that.
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Agreed with you, Mighty. Just "lost in maid's land."...
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