Posted by
kneebows
16 yrs ago
My helper of almost 3 months has just informed me she is quitting and returning to the Phillipines because she is not happy with the wage and food allowance she is being paid (as stipulated on the contract she signed). I told her we would review, but can't do this any earlier than April. However she is determined to go home. To say I am annoyed is an understatement, we spent a lot of money terminating our previous unsatisfactory helper to employ this highly recommended one from where she was working in China. Anyway, can someone clear my sleep-deprived and shell-shocked brain. She either gives notice immediately and leaves immediately, paying us one month's wage. Or she gives us one notice and works for that month without pay? I understand (but do not accept lightly) that we have to pay her her one way passage home.
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I can understand exactly what you are going through I am going through the same problem my helper wants to quit & go away as she has got loans of about
$ 20,000, I could be very wrong & the amount could be much more then what she has told me but there is no way I can find out.
she feels that there is no way that she can pay those loans & I am certainly not going to be helping her with such a huge amount as I have already helped her out once before financially. Anyway back to your question if she wants to go right away then she needs to pay you one months wages or she gives you a months notice works for a month then leaves with her wages for the notice month as well as her ticket home provided by you. It is very very unfair that we have to do this, I too am really angry with this situation .
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http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/FDHguide.pdf
I am so sorry about your situation, this link has most of your answers in Chap 7 about termination. It is pretty much as you have stated except you can include if she is due any annual leave days. You must give her the one way ticket home, but keep it an open ticket rather than a fixed date. She has the right to remain in HK 14 days after her last day in your emply. You need to send a letter to inform IMD about her termination of the contract. Remember to get a signature for any money, air ticket provided etc
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it is better to let her go rather than have this drag on and on and create more problems for you. make sure that you have everything in writing i.e. her resignation letter with reasons for quitting etc. this would prevent any future incident of her coming back to hurl accusations against you.
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Thanks all for your advice. Wizbang - I am quite happy to let her go and would much prefer it to be an amiciable split. However, on reflection, her changing excuses last night and her different attitude and some things she has done since asking for the payrise two weeks ago has me thinking her story does not quite add up. Which leads to my next question - and I will ring Dept Imm this morning when it opens - does she choose whether she works the month notice or leaves immediately or do we? Given she has done some silly things in the past two weeks (one dangerous) and it is a financial reason as to why she is going I am not so happy leaving her in the house with the children and with easy access to our valuables. I am not saying she is a dishonest person but then again, I have only known her for two and a half months and I would prefer to be safe than sorry.
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
To have someone in your home you are not comfortable with does create worries. I can see you are losing sleep over this issue. If I were you, I would let her go at the earliest possible time as children are involved. Calling up the Immigation Dept or the Labour Dept to make sure of whatever need to be done is advisable.
Hope you get over this problem soon.
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Kneebows:
If your helper leaves without finishing 3 months of service (e.g. if she gives you cash in lieu of notice) then she is not entitled to pro rata annual leave.
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Dadda,
I am shocked that you would take away your helper's passport. I understand you are upset about what happened with your last helper but you cannot take someone's passport from them. Helpers are adults, not children. You should talk to your helper about your expectations and how she is not to give your address or phone number to anyone. Communicate your concerns with her. You know, in many places, an employer will put an employee's passport in "safekeeping" only to refuse to give it to them when they ask for it. Can't you see how terrible the power dynamic is? You wouldn't dream of handing over your liberty (in the form of a travel document), so why would you consider asking your helper to give you her passport?
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dadda - i have read your story and it is terrible - however am pretty sure that keeping the helper's passport is illegal and you might end up in an aweful lot of trouble with immigration if your helper reports you for whatever reason - dont risk it...
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Thanks dadda for the warning. I have a few questions if anyone can advise me this is the story,
my helper has been working at my house since August 2007 & who now wants to terminate her contract.
The reason that she has given me is that she has taken loans of around
HK $ 20,000 without our knowledge and she feels that
she cannot pay them back so she would rather go back to the Philippines as now she is getting lots of threatening
phone calls & text messages on her mobile as well as calls on our landline from various debt collectors. She has also received a number of
debt collection letters on our home address also. In fact last night another employer along with her domestic helper
came to our house claiming that our maid owed her maid HK $ 10,000
She also has an on going case lodged against her at the Small Claims Tribunal again from someone claiming
that my helper owes her money. The case hearing date is on 20.11.2008.
I would like to know as to where do I stand in this situation. I appreciate if any of you could advise me on the following:
1. Can my helper leave Hong Kong even though she has a court case against her.
2. Can I dismiss her without giving any notice or payment in lieu of notice as I feel that she has willfully disobeyed an order
which I had given her saying that I did not want any kind of loan related problems such as calls on my landline,
creditor letters & people coming to my house demanding repayment right at the time when she had started working for me to which she had agreed.
3. Can this matter be construed as misconduct on her part.
My helper has indicated that she will tender her resignation and notice period to me shortly. From my discussions with her,
I understand that she intends to serve her full notice period instead of making a payment in lieu. However, I am now concerned and
I would rather that she leaves right away. I am worried that the people she owes money to will cause more problems for her because
of which I am worried about the safety of my family.
Why should we have to suffer all this for no fault of ours as we were not consulted by her before she took all these loans.
I am being harassed by debt collectors phone calls everyday while my helper is planning to leave Hong Kong and return to the Philippines quietly.
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My comments still stand because they have to do with power dynamics. You, as her boss, are asking her to do something. If she does not do as you ask, what are the consequences for her? She doesn't know. Talking to her about your previous situation and what information she is allowed to give out to people will be the only way of respecting her autonomy. Just because you say that you'll "ask" her doesn't mean that she understands she has a choice to give it to you or not.
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hk watcher
"...but keep it an open ticket rather than a fixed date."
Thanks for your kind advice but can I ask why an open ticket is a better option? We are beginning to suspect she is not planning to leave HK and has instead lined up another job. We suspect her go slow and dangerous tactics of the past two weeks (post asking for a payrise two months into the job and being told it wasn't yet possible) was a deliberate ploy to get terminated without notice in order to start the new job with a healthy bit of extra cash in hand.
If this is the case (and I stress it is just a gut feeling) wouldn't I be better off giving her a ticket with a determined date? If she doesn't use it, then at least she can't abuse our position by using it another time for other reasons. I do have huge issues with having to pay her a ticket home when she walked into the job (on a ticket from the Phillipines paid for by us less than three months ago) open-eyed and fully aware of both the pay and the demands. It just seems unfair when she is the one who chose to terminate the contract early.
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look out for cheap deals at hk express and cebu pacific for a return ticket to manila with all the restrictions possible... make sure that the helper cannot change the date or somethng
also if it is possible, demand for a list of her debt collectors together with her written resignation (with reason). you could then write to the collectors to say in effect that she no longer works in your employ and attach the relevant documents
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kneebows,
Unfortunately under the law a girl has 2 weeks past her last of of employment to secure another position. If you are against her being hired by anybody, then put your phone number on the release letter and ask them to call you directly for your comments on her work ethic. She probably won't use the letter, but you can rest easier knowing she isn't going to get your endorsement to carry on.
I wasn't aware you just given her a ticket three months ago, b/c of this and that she is the one who left you hanging I would now say you have fulfilled your obligations to her and should just state all of this in writing to the Immigration Dept.
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Terminate her contract immediately!! She has caused you a great deal of trouble through no fault of your own and the quicker you get her out of your house the quicker you can get this situation resolved because it won't go away as long as she is living with you. We have exactly the same problem and I hear what people say about communication with your helper I communicated with my helper that this kind of behaviour would not be tolerated, I even wrote it down got her to sign it saying ahe had been told and gave her a copy, what happened? she still went out and guaranteed a loan then lied to us about it for 4 months. As soon as we found out what had been going on she was out of the door that day. That was 3 weeks ago and the calls from debt collectors are still coming in, I have faxed the immigration receipt of her termination letter to a couple of numbers but god knows how many debts she had so I had yet another call last night. The bottom line is that if you as an employer feel that this is unacceptable in your home she should be dismissed immediately we did not ask for this harrassment in fact we were proactive in stating that it would not be tolerated and yet still it happens. As regards termination and flight tickets she has 14 days by law to find another job so I calculated 14 days from the date of her termination and booked a return ticket for her on that day. You have therefore fulfilled your legal obligation and it is her problem if she fails to use it, keep a copy of the booking for yourself to prove you did what the law requires of you.
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kneebows,
I read the green contract statement under #7 is says the Employer shall provide the H w/free passage from her place of origin to HK and on termination or expiry of contract , free return passage to her place of origin.
I am afraid this doesn't give you any wiggle room even though you've given her a ticket previously. I seems grossly unfair to me too.
Maybe you can just take it to Immigration for some sort of arbitration meeting?
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I know this is going to sound a bit harsh but shouldn't this helper be reported to someone (don't know who). If she has outstanding loans and a court case then surely she should be held accountable. I'm pretty sure if I ran up 000's on my visa, didn't pay my taxes and rent I would be stopped by immigration when trying to leave the country.
You cannot just "steal" money (which borrowing and not paying back is essentially) so she should be held accountable and made to stay until she pays it back. Otherwise what is to stop me running up loads of debt and then buggering off back to my home country to enjoy my new found wealth.
Another thing - OP, you the employer are more likely than not to receive threatening calls and letters (maybe worse) like Dadda when she leaves so if I were you I would start covering my butt now by reporting her.
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Who can you report it to? A private debt is just that and would not stop anyone leaving HK.
And actually there is nothing to stop you running up huge debts and leaving, 100's of expats have done it before and still do. The only difference here is that as her employer you'll be cleaning up the mess for months to come. But nothing you can do about it.
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cebu pacific has a good deal for it's overseas workers, and if you need cheap airtickets for your helpers within this time period
CEBU Pacific is offering overseas Filipino workers' zero fares for homebound flights during the holiday season.
The Gokongwei-owned budget carrier is offering zero fares for its Manila-Osaka, Japan and Clark to Bangkok, Hong Kong, Macau and Singapore flights to encourage OFW to come home.
The zero-fare seat-sale will run from October 29 to November 7, 2008 and is valid for travel from December 1, 2008 to January 31, 2009. Passengers will just pay for fuel and insurance surcharge ranging from US $45 to $110 per way.
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