Posted by
michtan
15 yrs ago
My maid plans to take a loan from the bank but she wasn't able to find any guarantees to back up her loan. From what i understand from her is most the guarantees (also maids) ended paying the instalements after the borrower run away with the money. Now she is asking if i can be her guarantee which i don't really mind. What other banks can she go to?
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"Now she is asking if i can be her guarantee which i don't really mind."
You should totally mind! In fact I would go so far as to say "are you out of your mind?"
Never put your name on anyone's loan, with the possible exception of your own adult children.
As for a loan, you could consider giving her a loan as long as:
a) you are fairly that she will pay it back.
b) it is no more than one month's salary.
c) you have a repayment plan in place which will allow her to pay you back in no more than 6 months.
d) you have no previously loaned her money.
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As spoken to her, she will borrow whatever max amount that is offered by the bank to her. The bank will not loan more than 20k to a 1st timer. So i guess the amount should range from 16k-20k max! She plans to pay off the loan before her contract ends with us which is about 13 months left.
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We never loaned her any money and this is the 1st time she had asked. She wanted to loan directly from us but we rejected because she was asking for 25k. We treat each other as friends and i do really want to help her but i do not wish our relationship sour because of money.
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It's good that you did not lend her money. It is also best that you don't guarantee her loan.
I think that this is a line an employer and helper should not cross.
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lend her directly or be the guarantor is the same!!! you are on the hook
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"lend her directly or be the guarantor is the same!!! you are on the hook"
True. But I would still rather kick myself than have a bank or other lender chase me.
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True. I will probably talk to her later. But will she resort to borrow money from 'loan sharks'!!! Or am i thinking too much!
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michtan,
Ask yourself why the bank wants a guarantor? Because they worry the FDH will disappear and not pay the $$$ back so by you acting as a guarantor they reduce their risk as you take most of the risk on. Whether you take the risk on or not is entirely up to you but what would you do if your FDH ran away after getting the loan? And don't think there is no chance of that happening, half a years salary could be quite tempting for someone in need of cash and by your comments she is someone in need...
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Maybe you can persuade her not to take that loan. I'm sure you have a good relationship with your helper and it's so good of you to help her. But many "horror" stories have happened already related to money borrowing/lending. Save yourself the chance of having one.
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Huge mistake if you go down this road. Keep your working relationship professional and not as a friend. This could and most probably will back fire.
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i agree with bob
whatever and however course of action she takes out a loan is her business.
but you should tell ahead of time that this should not affect the work environment i.e. you and your household. and that if it does affect her work, you (i.e. loan sharks calling your home fone), your family etc. is grounds for dismissal. keep it professional, make sure it's in writing and countersigned etc.
it sounds ruthless and heartless but at the end of the day - you should look out for yourself first and your family.
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tpol
15 yrs ago
A friend had a helper for 5 years or so. Very good.
Until one day, she asked my friend for a loan.
He lent her the money and she disappeared.
He found out that she just met a new boyfriend and he probably changed her.
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and if she does take a loan out, do not then advance her money on her salary to help her pay it when she comes up in a month's time saying she hasn't saved enough to pay the instalments.
Call me cynical but I'd bet a bottle of bubbly that happens next!
By the way, have you worked out that for a 25k loan that she intends to repay over the next 13 months, she is going to have to repay over 2k per month. If she can save that much money each month to repay a loan, then perhaps she should be encouraged to save and not borrow.
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oh god! we talk last night and something happen this afternoon. my son (18mths) got choked by a candy while i was in the shower. thank god he is okay now. i very much wanted to help her so she could concentrate working without any worries. i understand her husband and her 2 sons is homeless due to some family problems. after what happen today i decided to loan her a month salary while she she try to find other alternatives to solve her problem.
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tsk! give her a warning letter.
as i said, so long as it does not affect the family and her work which is apparently happening already. 1 month salary loan is not going to last very long. then what? after that money is gone, she'll be back to her space cadet mode?
better nip it in the bud.
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totally agreed with punter, as an employer, it is not wise to drag into your employees financial problem.
I have more or less the same experince as 6789's relatives, and it is really frustrating. I agreed with 6789, do not involve banks and put your name on it cause you'll end up with a bad record should your maid didn't pay out her debt.
As 6789 has put it, you might wish to loan her yourself but most probably not be repaid.
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4G
15 yrs ago
we lent ours nearly 7 K , and she just disappeared 1 day , had to report to police
lent her so she wouldnt go to loan sharks ,but later found out she had borrowed heavily from other maids and banks too ........
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Help! Help! Help!!!!!
My maid is driving me NUTS!!! What can i do?? I tried to be very very understanding towards her situation. I talk her even she ignores me. She talk back when i tried to explain to her why she shouldn't do this or talk to the kids like that. Even the usual routine all went wrong!!! I don't wish to dismiss her over such issue but she is not communicating with me and messing up everything!
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why do you even have to stress about it. if you are not happy, let her go.
clearly your helper thinks she's the boss - so isn't it time to put your foot down and send her a written warning letter. two warning letters is equal to dismissal. have her acknowledge it, and have non family witnesses around.
make sure that you do not become emotional about it and be business like.
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Michtan,
There is a common theme to this thread and that is : Do Not Do It !
We have had numerous experiences with FDH's, some good, majority bad ! thats not to say all FDH's are bad, its just the experiences that I and my family have had.
Your maid is on a contract, whatever she does whilst she is in your care, you are responsible for ! (Within reason as per FDH contract terms).
If you become a guarantor to her bank loan, you will inevitably end up paying for it and receiving calls chasing the money on your house / mobile phones, potentially upsetting other family members and generally causing disruption to your household / daily life and increasing the stress levels.
Is this your first FDH ?
Has she worked with you for a long period of time ? (eg. over one contract period ?)
Do you trust her enough to lend her or act as a guarantor to her loan that could (possibly if approved) be five (5) times her monthly salary ?
Can you afford to take a loss that big if she reneges on her loan payments and disappears ?
If the answer to any (or all !) of the questions above is "NO" - sit down with your maid and be brutally honest, tell her you do not / cannot act as a guarantor.
A common tactic of FDH's is to pester you if they see that you are sitting on the fence, be upfront, dead pan serious and say - NO !
Any form of insubordination / moodiness / lack of working attitude should be swiftly followed up with a verbal warning, written warning and if necessary, termination of employment.
Her financial difficulties are not yours, nor is her family's problems yours, there is a very large support network in place for FDH's, their communities that reside here in HK, organisations and the consulate.
Also, be very clear, that if she does apply for the loan or take out any financial support from any organisation, your residence / office is not to be used as a billing address.
Like I said, there are a lot of people here that are all giving you a big red flag ! Whats your 'sixth sense' telling you ? - if any doubt, do not go through with it !
RS
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question: When does her contract end ? Some helpers may be getting several loans for several banks and plan to disappear.
question: If it all goes belly up, and your helper decamps, are you prepared to pay up the $25,000? Also, what about other loans that you may not know about ?
Question: would your boss at work guarantee your loan ?
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juvy
15 yrs ago
All well said but what about Humanity...if you care for her and trust her why not talk to her and try to understand her situation co'z maybe she' in deep trouble right now but she must tell you the whole story and most importantly the truth.. from here and there you will say to yourself..you don't need us here in the forum co'z some of us here can't help you and yet mislead you in some ways. Do you think it is Noble to give help to somebody only because your name will be publish... No right! Just tell her her responsibility when borrowing money and she will owe you this. Co'z you saved her aswell as her whole family depending on her for their future. I hope this will help you both..
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Thank you to all of you for sharing your views and opinions. Sad to say even after reading all the posts i have no clue what to do next. We are so close like friends thats why i was willing to guarantee the loan without any consideration. We talk almost anything and i knew her problem from A-Z. I didn't guarantee the loan because my husband was against it and i was hoping the 1 month salary could solve her problem for the time being. Ever since i told her that i will not guarantee her loan i see 360 degree change!
I talk to her and she ignore me singing to herself. She shut herself in her room. The kids get double treats because of non-communication. She disappeared without a word when we were doing grocery shopping in the supermarket. In the mall, she kept a distance of 4-5 metres ahead/behind me. Thot i don't really need her to cover all the household chores but communication is required when i'm doing the cooking, she need to watch over the kids in the playroom.
Now i don't know where i should stand? As a friend or an employer?
As an employer i should show her the door for the sake of the family! As a friend i should be understanding and be supportive! But my patience do have a limit and how much longer can i 'give and take' to the attitude problem she is showing me?
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4G
15 yrs ago
agree fully with Cara
give her 1 months salary and ask her to leave immediately .....dont wait till something happens to your kids or yourself
saying this from experience
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Too bad for the helper, Michtan sounds like a very good employer. It's another experience where the employer "crosses" the maid and everything changes for the bad. It looks like the helper has already erased the line that separates helper from employer. I think it's time to let her go, unless of course you can get her back to her senses that she's going to lose a friend, a good employer, and a few months of salary if you do terminate her employment.
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"Ever since i told her that i will not guarantee her loan i see 360 degree change!"
You treat her as a friend but obviously she does not feel the same way.
So why do you still insist on pursuing the friendship? Obviously too she is being "friendly" just to get a favor out of you.
Business is business. Separate the two.
So be an employer first and foremost because your objective is the well being of your family.
Terminate now, and give her one's salary and whaterver is due to her including a plane ticket immediately.
You do not want to wait for anything to happen to your family do you?
Snake in the grass - you'll never know when they'll sneak an "attack" on you - that's what i say.
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She is my 1st FDH in HKG and one of the best i had. Thot she has change her attitude towards me but i can see she still loves the kids. I'm trying to be positive and exploring other options to help her out. I was thinking of applying for a stay-out DH to lighten her duties or to make a trip back to solve her problem. Looks like having a stay-out DH is not possible. Termination will be my last option if her attitude does not improve in another 2 -3 weeks grace. Termination on the spot will be cruel (knowing her situation) as she will need to leave HKG without a job. This will be my 1st time to terminate a FDH in HKG and hope to find the best option for her. From what i gathered in the forum if i declare financial problem she will be permitted to stay in HKG to look for another employer. Is that true? Will there be any problem applying for FDH after that? Any advice will be appreciated. I hope to end this in a humanity way.
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I am not sure I follow your logic on letting her go because of the way she has reacted when she wanted you to secure her loan to get herself out of financial difficulties, only to then let her go to another employer. How will that work?
When you write your truthful reference to say that she has financial problems and although she had been great up to that point the employer/employee relationship broke down afterwards, then who is going to employ her? Who would even employ her when you mention her requesting you to guarantee her loan?
Or are you going to gloss over the issues in a reference and lumber her problems on someone else? That would not be exactly fair to any other employer.
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you have been given good advice by people on this forum.
You have gone against your husband's good judgement.
So go ahead and lend her the money, and wait for the loansharks to start threatening your precious children.
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the only humane way to end things is to do it fast and quick.
the longer she stays and the longer you hang on to her strains your relationship further. why wait for the day to come when things are unbearable and uncomfortable ?
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Michtan
Sorry to sound harsh but you made a big mistake treating an employee as a friend She is not your friend. Particularly in a live-in helper situation it is very important to keep your distance and make sure the helper understands she is not your friend or your family. The more you listen to your problems the more she expects you to help her with them - with helpers it is inevitably financial help. I made the same mistake with my first helper - but fortunately did not have significant problem. But I learnt my lesson. The second time I did not ask any personal questions of her at all - even then she still asked to borrow money about five times over three years. I always said no. Except if less than one months salary.
You should fire her and start again and think about how you can change your attitude with your next employee. She is annoying you now - it is not going to get any better. She probably thinks if she sulks enough you will give in. Just get rid of her.
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Giving her a month advance salary is the best we can do and we are NOT going to guarantee her loan.
Besides a month salary, a release letter and an air ticket what else do i still have to pay for? What reference letter? Do i have to go into details like spurtio mention?
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