Posted by
sisly
14 yrs ago
Two years ago, my friend called me up around midnight and asked me to helped her friend who has no shelter and food to eat.
Since the woman she introduced seems really need help because of her moving story and she keeps on crying so I trusted her. It was then she told me that she need a job because she don't like to go back to Phil. in short, I get a job and signed an employment contract. everything seems well until after 18 months, I had known that she is lending money with interest to her friends and took their passport as a collateral. I also found out that she stole money from my kids piggy bank.
She was angry when I tried to talk to her and just left and didnt come back. I called her and she said she don't like to work anymore with me because she don't have a face to show me. I reported to the immigration the next day but after 14 days, I received a notice from labour court and she is claiming 89,000. since employed no salary, no day off, no statutory holiday etc. I already attended so many hearings and 1 trial for almost 7 months. I got many proofs of her alligations including monthly remittances to her husband, photos of her day off etc but I am so upset that the legal procedure takes so long. aside from her alligations abt salary and others she also went to police and complained that I want to cut her fingers one by one. she also reported that I am the one lending money so the police came over to my house and arrested me in front of my young children. What this woman did to me is unbelievable. I cannot concentrate with my work and I worry a lot of my children. God knows her alligations are not true but why she did this to me. She cry and made up a story to different people for symphaty so they believe and advice her. She is 55 years old and I believe she can't find an employer but she want to remain in HK thats why she put me in trouble to have a case to hold her here.
Please advice if any idea what else I should do. I seek the assistance of SWD for moral support but I just wish the court hearing from tribunal to police matter will end. This woman will do her means to remain in HK and to get money.I wish I can talk to her personaly and ask WHY? WHAT HAVE I DONE THAT YOU DID THIS TO ME. but the police warned me that better I don't approach her else she will create another lie. I am a single mom and there are kids depending on me. she has no heart. my kids are very scared and I am so stressful.
PLS HELP!!!!!!
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Firstly take the police advice and do not try to communicate with her, maybe the police are gathering more evidence,that is why it takes so long.
I really hope for your sake this will have a good outcome, and she won't get away with her lies and sob stories. , She sounds like she is a 'good actress', like this type of person usually is, I have seen a lot of hysterical, crying Dhs in my time here, I just ignore that type of nonesense. Her motive probably was to remain in HK longer, I just hope for everybody's sake the truth will come out and she and others like her will not be allowed to work here, it would not be fare to any next employer and to her fellow countrymen who work here doing a good job.
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sisly
14 yrs ago
Thanks for the reply, yes thats true she really is a good actress, would you believe one of her witness in court is a minister of God whom she just had known 1 month after she left my house. How this minister knows that this woman is telling the truth when he is not there during the time of her employment. One time at the court I told the claimant if I could speak to her but this minister said "don't negotiate", one thing I would like to know if a minister in a church can be a witness. He also said that the claimant is his member but actually they both have different belief. I thought a pastor or a minister is a peacemaker, pray for both and act according to God's word. I also wish to talk to this pastor but they might report i'm intervening to witness. Just don't know what to do. any idea where to report this minister or someone will at least advice or correct his mistakes? Just he thinks this woman get huge money and will share so he is willing to lie as well. what a shame using the name of God and carrying the name his church just for money.
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No Sisly, don't try to talk to him either, if you have been told not to speak to witnesses, Your ex helper has probably told a pack of lies to him as well, and if she had added the tears, hysteria, he probably believes her.
I don't think any minister of God would be interested in sharing her money, if she gets any, they are not like that, he probably has just been taken in by her story.
Are there no previous employers of hers you could contact, find out the real reason for her leaving the job before she worked for you?
As she was in a state of hysteria and crying, when you felt sorry for her and employed her, the chances are she may well have been sacked for some reason by them! that is how the bad ones move on to harass the next employer-in this case you, and because she is getting older it would be more difficult to get other work, so she is trying to make money to take back home crafty!!
Let us hope and pray some justice will come of all this, and it can be resolved.
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sp517
14 yrs ago
Sisly,
Be careful and NOT talk to the claimant. In any case, things may get nasty if they record conversation and use as evidence against you.
Extreamly careful even in this blog, for safety reasons, during the legal proceedings.
As long as you know that you are right, stand strong, be courages, never give up, truth will prevail. Fact is a fact, and cannot be changed or erased!!
Keep all your evidence related to this case safe, and try to analyse the case before each hearing, and you know how to hit the point.
About the police case, they will investigate, and as long as there is no evidence to support the claim it will end up with no action.
Sisly, you are innocence untill proven, and why worry if you haven't done wrong to the DH, and simply disregard the DH false reporting to the police. Good Luck!!
Check sent you an PM.
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sp517
14 yrs ago
agree with busybuddy99, but the rules of hiring DH are clearly shown on the DH contract, and labour dept website and immigration website provides practical guides on the related topics as well.
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sisly
14 yrs ago
There are rules and regulations but sometimes trusting someone you really don't know will screw you up. sometimes, during the interview, you don't really care to call the previous employer to ask for reference abt the dh you are hiring until the trouble comes and then you really start finding out how she was terminated or released by the previous employer. This happened to me, it's only when i face this trouble that I started finding out about her previous employment history. It's sad but it's already happened. what I found out was shocking but this is a lesson to learn. I just pray for the courage and that God will enlighten the heart and mind of this woman.
I hope to get more advice most especially about the case in LT because I knew that even I win the case but since her main purpose is to prolong her visa here in Hong Kong so I'm sure she will appeal for the award, in that case, once again the court will re open the case for review.
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You say you were arrested in front of your children. What were the charges? Are you talking about a civil case at the LT or a criminal case against you for assault? Frankly, I don't see why people on this forum are so quick to take employers at their word when even the police and judiciary don't. Really, it's your word against 'Asia's finest'.
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Sisly, if you have found out from previous employers that your FDH has caused other trouble before you finally got her, ask if they can stand witness for you to declare this.
Too many employers sack maids for dishonesty/petty theft, and do not call in the police for fear of trouble, but in the end these helpers go on to other rookie employers and commit the same offences time after time, or worse, and then when they feel 'cornered', or can find loopholes to try to sue employers to stay in HK longer, and gain money out of them - and they will !! If they can't steal anymore they will extort it by other means.
Fortunately these really corrupt nasty pieces of work are in a minority, any employers dismissing for theft or dishonesty, must really report it to the correct authorities and have it dealt with by deportation to spare others, it is the only way lying will stop.
Corruption, theft, lies might be accepted in a lot of the countries FDH's come from but shouldn't be tollerated anywhere else.
All new employers should be advised by IMM. the importance of documenting everything, using only banks to pay wages, and locking all important documents in a very safe place etc.
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sp517
14 yrs ago
Remember, employers has to fight against the DH untruly claims most of the time, and ending up by employer paying the DH for no reason. Show me a case where the DH paid the "wages in lieu of notice". I was once told, even the employer wins a case, it may NOT be possible to get the "wages in lieu of notice", if the DH has no money. Cannot imagine, how much one sided is this game, in this foul world.
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sisly
14 yrs ago
Actually there are so many concerned friends who stand witnesses including the dh own best friend in favour of me but I just don't understand why it takes so long for the LT to finish the case, how much more proof and witnesses should I bring in court. I knew that sooner ot later the truth will prevail but how about the trouble I'm facing everyday. Most especially there's another trouble which this DH created regarding police issues, though there is no charges yet but still I don't know what will happen. honestly speaking, I am a peaceful person and this is the very first time in my life I encounter such thing. People say I don't have to worry but I am really bothered most especialy I have children to take care. Does this woman have no concience? it's like giving a bread to someone who is hungry and when she is full, she picked up big stones and threw to me. I just want peace.... to talk to her and settle things amicably , but HOW?
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They said "The TRUTH always prevails", so lets just wait and see what is the verdict..Its not easy to comment anything because we only heard the other side.
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Obviously, if the helper simply asserts that she was forced to pay her salary back without presenting one scrap of evidence to corroborate this allegation her claim will be laughed out of the tribunal. "The question is why the employer keeps on paying for everything when he is on the right track and didn't did anything wrong." The real question is how anybody could know this based upon what some anonymous poster says on this forum.
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busybuddy99
The OP said the police arrested her and this is beyond anything the Labour Department would normally take into account. It seems the OP has problems on both the labour and legal sides. So that was my advice. Also HK has such a thing as legal aid and they would at least listen to her. Another organization that might be helpful is the Ombudsmen who try to help people work out their problems before going to court.
As to your second comment, if an employer asked a worker to return lawfully earned money to them, that is the time to call the police or another organization called Helper for Helpers. Many cell phones now have the ability to record and a conversation where this type of thing was said would be proof acceptable in most cases.
Lastly, the Labour Tribunal hears these kinds of cases everyday and they are not biased to one side or the other. They are seasoned at filtering the truth and the lies. Present your case in a calm and organized manner and let them sort it out.
Follow all of their instructions and remain calm. Truth will win out.
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Two words:
counter sue.
On bl**dy principle if nothing else.
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And what we the form of action be for the counter-suit? 'Bloody principal' is not a legal category in common law systems.
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Counter-claim and counter-charge based on what, exactly? A lot of people on this forum seem to think the courts are little more than a playground where grown-up children can exchange insults. It's not a game. You have to have EVIDENCE before you press charges or bring a suit.
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sisly
14 yrs ago
When I was at the police station, I asked the police if I can counter charge, they advice not to worry because once they find out this DH telling lies then police will automatically arrest her including her witness. I am just waiting their investigation to finish, regarding the LT case, I have a solid proof and that is her monthly remittances which there is not even a single month that she didn't send money to her family. And she sends at least 3 to 5 times a month. And based on her remittances, she stopped sending when she is out of job but she started sending again after 3 months of her termination. That’s the proof that she is doing part-time job. However, she told court that it was her savings that she sends monthly. but when the court asked if where she kept her money, she said it was on her pocket. Would you believe that? She has bank account but not active. She also told in court that it was she who breaks the contract but if this is the case, why then she is asking to pay her for 1 month notice. She should pay me instead because she claimed that she broke her contract. She said she didn't take day off because she need to look after my kids but I have witnesses and she has photograph that she is enjoying party with her friends, but she denied, telling it was just 1 hr she asked permission to meet her friends, she had pictures at ocean park and Disney land with her family who visit her in Hong Kong but she denied and told it was my treat to her and not count as her day off. I also got confirmation from my kids school that they are present at school on the day this DH said she took them to Ocean Park.
Dear employer, if this kind of lies LT will listen in court. I suggest, it's better to get an acknowledgement of her rest day/ statutory holiday together with her monthly salary which she receives and if possible try to take pictures. Well, I'm not telling all DH is the same because I knew a lot who are really outstanding and trustworthy, but just in case or for safety reason only. You never knew, as they said; learn from the mistake of others.
If you are in my shoe, what will you do? How you will counter claim her. You have proof that she is telling lie and you want to stop it because she is just using your case to prolong her visa. Should you just wait and keep on fighting or is there any other way.
Dansande; we are in this forum to exhange ideas and get advices if possible. I have a SOLID PROOF OF EVIDENCE but because I am troubled with the situation thats why I am here expressing my agony trying to get more advice from anyone who went through the same situation. I'm not asking you to believe me, I am just telling what I am going through right now and if you have anything to contribute or ideas then I do really appreciate it.
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My comments weren't directed toward you; they were directed to the people who keep telling you to counter-claim, whatever that even means, legally speaking. It is quite obvious that if what you are posting is true she will not prevail and that all you need to do is let the system work.
Of course it is frustrating and aggravating to have someone tell lies about you and abuse the system of legal redress. Bear in mind that for every employer this happens to there is a helper falsely accused of theft by an employer, etcetera.
I would like to ask anyone who claims that the legal system is biased in favour of helpers what specific proposals they have in mind for reforming the law? Do you suggest that we simply prohibit helpers from bringing claims before the Labour Tribunal?
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sisly
13 yrs ago
I just wanted to tell this forum how things went on at the labour tribunal. Case was finally finished on May 20, indeed, the truth always prevails, I won the case and she end up nothing. I actually tried to settle the case with my previous helper with a certain amount because its almost a year and the case was still going on and its very frustrating. Thank God because she didn't accept it. she insisted to take 80,000 in settlement of all her claims.
Though It was dissapointing and I really wanted to give up but I have no choice but to continue attending the hearing/TRIAL. I just prayed hard that God knows everything and that I leave everything on Him. until the judgment day and she lost all claims because of dishonesty. Though I felt sorry for her, still she manages to tell the presiding officer that she won't leave me. and that she will continue to trouble me more.
Dear employers, not all helpers are bad but for your safely, though you trust your helper, it's always a must to keep an acknowledgement receipt not only on salary, but let your helper sign as well all her taken day off, statutory holiday, annual leave, etc and keep it in a safe place. if possible, take a picture on it. because now a days, helper can tell the court that acknowledgement was sign by force. try to find out also if how and where she is remitting her salary, who is her beneficiary. contact number. who are her friends and relatives here in Hong Kong.
On my case, the presiding officer in court didnt base his judgment on whatever she signed because she told that I forced her to signed without money. but I could able to provide her monthly remittances and photograph when she took day off. She was proven dishonest.
Sometimes, it maybe not her idea to do this but i have to warn you employers that there are also people around them who is their mentor. I should not say this but it's a fact that even those people called a minister of God are the one that pushing to fight in court to get some money and they will share if she won. I am talking based on experienced.
I hope that what I been through will give lesson not only to employers but to domestic helpers.
Lastly, I would like to extend my gratitude to those who post and give their comments, supports and advices. I apologized for those who send pm and I couldn't reply. I would like to tell that it was very encouraging in my part sharing your experiences and your ideas on how to deal with it. Above all, thank you for this site ASIA XPAT ADVICE FORUM for at least we can share our troubles, agony and experienced. MORE POWER..... .
THANK YOU AGAIN AND GOD BLESS.
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I would say to all employers, Pay your helper through the bank, it is never to late to open a bank account for her/him, there will never be any dispute then.
Plus if you give the helper anything extra, on top of wages eg: money as birthday gift, tickets for airfare etc, make her sign for it.
Did they ban the helper from working in HK? and wasting time of the tribunal in order to get money by deciept?
I am glad justice prevailed for you.
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80,000 hk is a big amount of money if converted to your dh's country currency... almost half a million pesos. she could probably retire, buy property or set up a business back home. i guess by suing the employer meant easy money for her.
i am glad she wasn't able to milk you for that amount.
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sisly,
Thank you for taking the time to tell us the final chapter to your story.
I was thinking while reading your story, and wondering what this lady was doing for one year while waiting for this claim to be processed? It is not legal for her to work, how would she support herself? My guess is to work part time...and here is my point. We frequently ask why the HK Gov doesn't allow part time work and after reading your case, I think this is the reason why. Too many who know whow to work the system would take a LT case and then just hang around and work off the record. The employers who hire part time should beware!
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