Posted by
Ed
14 yrs ago
Hong Kong is considering an end to the rules preventing thousands of nannies from mainland China from working in the territory, because of surging demand for affordable domestic staff who can speak Mandarin Chinese.
Mandarin – spoken in economic hotspots like Beijing, Shenzhen and Singapore – is fast replacing Hong Kong's Cantonese and parents are desperate for nannies who can teach their children the language.
More http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/hong-kong-seeks-end-to-ban-on-mainland-maids-2175192.html
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Run, run!
The Han are coming!
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This change has been on the 'books' for some years, I don't think the tragic Manilla hostage shooting (as the newspaper article infers) had anything to do with the decision to start thinking about allowing Chinese from over the border to work in HK as helpers, it is a good idea, bring it on -- there are plenty of Western employers who would consider employing them also.
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You pays your money you takes your choice! The ban was concieved in a different political climate than today's and is no longer relavent. They would give a new headache to the immigration department and hit Cebu Pacific's business hard.
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dunno about you but i teach english in various kindergarten schools in hk.. im sorry to disappoint you but parents still insist their children learning english as a world language in business, etc. this trend is the same in china having taught english there for some years too. a mandarin-speaking hk like (allegedly) singapore would finally bring this city to its demise in terms of business, tourism or becoming the next "world-clash city" which will deteriorate on its own demise.
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Haven't been here for a while and as I take a look I see nothings changed!
"anythings better than the the Filipinos we have had to have"
Care to elaborate on that statement, bordering on the racist it is? You haven't had to have Filipinas, you could have Indonesian, Sri Lankan, Indian, Thai for starters as well as the no maid.
For us even if the situation changes we wont change, certainly not with kids anyway.
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Rumdoodle, hundreds of thousands of Filipinas have been serving Hong Kong for decades. Are you (again I might add) suggesting that they are "all bad"? I think if the situation were so dire we would be overrun with Indonesians, Sri Lankans, Thais and so forth. But oddly, Filipinas are still the biggest group.
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sicn
14 yrs ago
Maybe it is off topic to mention Singapore. But mainland maids are banned in Singapore. I heard it was because complains from some local women's group. Has HK government considered the social impact of lifting the ban?
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I understand this issue has been on the "table" for some time now.
Some issues to consider:
(1) Permanent residency after a few years.
(2) Hong Kong people getting a maid's visa for their lovers
(3) Security - maids with questionable connections in the mainland giving out valuable info (although this is possible for any nationality, it looks like a big concern for those from the mainland?)
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This i think will drive out most of the Filipinos and Indonesian/Non ethnic-han domestic workers in my view.
There are many social advantages and disadvantages that will come out of this change.
Pro:
-Most 95% of the cantonese people would prefer someone that have the same language skills as them, or closer even putonghua.
There will not be as much differences in culture, food, holidays etc.
-People who can afford two nannies will probably get an english speaking and a mandarin one just to get more exposure.
-More competition for domestic helpers to give best service for the best price.
Disadvantages-
-Widespread prostitution and extra-marital affairs, right now it is only popular with westerns in "wanchai", but if it were a mainland chinese girl it is what most of the population is looking for and is more accepted.
-Human trafficking will become rampant and those an expired visas will be gone into the local population forever.
-Less people will get married especially Hong Kong women (Man has maid, cook, and sex slave for 3K a month.)
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You make some valid points, but I disagree with you on some.
"-More competition for domestic helpers to give best service for the best price."
This is already happening. Also the minimum wage is the minimum wage, though I suppose you'll find even more undercutting than today.
"-Widespread prostitution and extra-marital affairs, right now it is only popular with westerns in "wanchai","
- Prostitutes are in no way only "popular with westerners in Wan Chai". There are plenty of ethnic Chinese prostitutes in HK today. In fact they constitute the bulk of both the legal prostitutes and the illegal ones (tourist visa). "Use of prostitution services" is way bigger among the local population than among expats and visitors, simply given the relative population numbers. Expats just don't tend to see (or typically even know about) the "local" prostitution because it isn't in the open like the Wan Chai night spots.
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"na nothing racist bout it at all. As you havent been here awhile I suggest you do some reading"
I read the whole thread thanks.
You still did not elaborate on your quote "anythings better than the the Filipinos we have had to have", which in English implies that somehow people from the Philippines are are rung lower than those elsewhere. Will you elaborate?
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"-Widespread prostitution and extra-marital affairs, right now it is only popular with westerns in "wanchai","
I agree with axptguy here and actually this has been a bane of many a marriage with second wives and families in Shenzhen. I have no idea about the toms in Wanchai but you'll find whole buildings full of one room, one woman places all over Kowloon as well as more blatantly open brothels in Mongkok, Prince Edward, Jordan, etc. Most house locals and mainlanders and advertise as such in the street.
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Ed
14 yrs ago
Actually... Indonesian helpers have been in HK in big numbers for the better part of a decade...I believe they outnumber those from the Philippines...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_domestic_helpers_in_Hong_Kong
I think one of the main reasons Indonesians are so numerous is their willingness to work for less than the mandated monthly wage... and to accept what are often slave like working conditions with no off days...
Abject poverty makes for compliant slaves I guess... To a great extent Indonesian's are unwilling to rock the boat because they are massively indebted to agencies when they come to HK... I have heard stories of employers paying the first 6 months wages directly to the agencies...
We have a number of ladies running our DH desk and they are exellent - I have also employed DH's from the Philippines who were nothing but excellent... and I have stayed in serviced apartments many times and the housekeepers most from Philippines were outstanding...
Once again... generalizations are useless... and lead to racism...
Momma always told me to judge someone on their individual merits...not by their colour... not by their nationality... not on what their daddy did... or how much money they have...
I am liking that message...
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Ed
14 yrs ago
Learning Mandarin is a great idea... but it might be a bit difficult for an expat to communicate with a helper that doesnt speak English...
Also I would have to wonder what sort of Mandarin would be passed along by a maid who probably would have primary education at best... I know a couple of people who are educating their kids in Mandarin from early days and they have a proper teacher coming in...
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Rumdoodle: "I think expats would be very please with mainland domestics as their children will gain far more advantage learning a Chinese language rather than Tagalog which helps them nothing at all."
How does learning Tagalog not help my kids? It's one more language which is a good thing in a child's development. Sure, Mandarin is arguably more "useful" but Tagalog is spoken by hundreds of millions of people around the world. Besides, native language is hardly our first criterion when hiring.
Also see Ed's comments. Most Filipinas speak English. Most mainlanders do not. For expats that's a big thing right there.
Rumdoodle: "If someone has bad luck with almost everyone they have employed then they are probably more than willing to change. I think they are just a bit edgy for me. Hardly racist."
It is racist. It's like going to London, meeting three or four unpleasant Londoners and concluding that all Britons are bastards.
I think Ed's Momma had it right: "Momma always told me to judge someone on their individual merits...not by their colour... not by their nationality... not on what their daddy did... or how much money they have."
Ed: "I think one of the main reasons Indonesians are so numerous is their willingness to work for less than the mandated monthly wage... and to accept what are often slave like working conditions with no off days... "
Quite. If you're willing to be even just a fair and decent boss, let alone a good one, there is no need for someone who works for less than minimum with no days off.
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This is going to be hilarious. Having lived in ML China for about 5 years I can tell you that mainland maids are 100x worse than our filipino friends. One good point is they are normally quite honest and won't try to steal anything, but be prepared for greasy plates when they refuse to use hot water to wash dishes and refuse to dry them before stacking them away.
You wont want to let them spend too much time with your kids either, unless you want your kid to learn to take a dump in the middle of the street, speak terrible bogan mandarin that no one else will understand, and generally not give a crap about any human being other than themselves.
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haha now that is racist.
Correct me if this is a wrong point of view, but of usable languages you want to be able to use for business in this region.
1.English (international schools)
2.Cantonese (spoken at home/with locals for business and everyday living)
3.Mandarin (potentially with a DH from China)
Mind you Mandarin is spoken by the 2nd biggest economy in the world.
You guys are not looking at the big picture 5% of Hong Kongs population if that is Ex-pat, this article is affecting 100% of Hong Kong.
Instead of 2 other national maids you might have 1 that speaks english and 1 that speaks chinese that could help with the daily living, going on vacations to mainland, and other things.
"Also I would have to wonder what sort of Mandarin would be passed along by a maid who probably would have primary education at best... I know a couple of people who are educating their kids in Mandarin from early days and they have a proper teacher coming in..."
Are you serious? I'm sure the Filipinos, Thai, and Indonesians are not all holding masters degrees teaching your kids perfect english.
If this ban is lifted there will be serious ramifications for the labor market as a whole. All the people working low paying, labored jobs are in danger of losing jobs.
Theft can also be a big problem with DH, for domestic helpers of other nationalities the only way you can get off HK is by boat and mostly airplane.
Imagine if you went on vacation, it is a lot easier for your mainland DH to drive your car jam packed full of valuable to Shenzhen and never be seen again, then it is for one to get a paid plane ticket wherever.
Organized crime would be rampant here also imagine all the triad "helpers/drivers" willing to come down here to make a couple bucks, doing all the illegal stuff in a S.A.R. that they know they won't get executed in.
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Expats why are you guys in Hong Kong, and China rather then Philipines and Indonesia?
Why are you learning mandarin and cantonese instead of tagolog and indonesian?
If you were American and you could get an American DH for cheaper then any other nationality, which one would you choose?
If you were Chinese which 95% of Hong Kong is and you could get Chinese DH for cheaper than any other nationality, which one would you choose?
Logic use it.
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Gaz, I think if ML chinese are allowed to work in Hk as DH's, restaurant workers etc. they will have some kind of agency who will ensure they are properly trained in the hygeine standards Hkongers and expats here would expect of them.
Most Chinese people are very clean, and proud, and very honerable to their families, and if they happen to come from an area which has no hot water, then I'm sure they can easily be taught how to use it, and its benifits for cleanliness.
I had an FDH who's hygeine standards were abominable, washing pans in cold water when my back was turned, everything else I put in the dishwasher, I caught her one day sharpening dirty garden shears with the food knife sharpener-I told her to scrub it clean then I put it in a pan and boiled it for ten minutes. She never washed her hands after going to the toilet unless i told her to in the whole of the 2yr she was with us. The number of times I pulled her up for doing anything which was unhygeinic I lost count of, we stopped allowing her to touch any of our food a long time before she finally went, the phrase you can't teach and old dog new tricks really did apply to her, she had been in Hk for over 20yrs,and she was from where the largest majority of FDH's used to come from, now they are No 2 in the masses.
The honesty you speak of would be one of the main attractions to employ ML Chinese, I am sure there would always be the odd one who is dishonest though, plus after they have been here for a longer time and learn to work the system, like some of the less honest present FDH"s do, they would also become more streetwise and crafty.
I don't think they will block the walkways of HK in the same way DH's do at the moment, as culturally they are less likely to want to congregate and party on their day off, they are more likely to be in smaller groups of friends.
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It's funny how many people like to complain about one nationality or another, and how another nationality is supposedly better. Judge the individual, not the ethnicity.
Susie1, your post is just one big generalization. Just like there are good and bad Filipinas, Indonesians and so forth there are good and bad Chinese. And you're implying that all DH of that nationality (assume you mean Filipina) are unhygienic because the ONE you describe is.
"I don't think they will block the walkways of HK in the same way DH's do at the moment, as culturally they are less likely to want to congregate and party on their day off, they are more likely to be in smaller groups of friends."
I have honestly never seen a walkway blocked by DH. There's always plenty of room to pass. And so what? Let them have a party. How is this a bad thing? Also, most DH are with a small group of friends. It's just that many small groups close together become a mass of peple.
Susie1: "Gaz, I think if ML chinese are allowed to work in Hk as DH's, restaurant workers etc. they will have some kind of agency who will ensure they are properly trained in the hygeine standards Hkongers and expats here would expect of them."
You're assuming government uses logic. ;) Also, you're assuming that such training would help. All new Filipina DH go through mandatory training nowadays. And yet, there are brilliant ones, all right ones and abysmal ones.
Rumdoodle: "Tagalog must rate at about I dunno last in language preference for expat children to learn."
Really? Why? As long as my kids learn Swedish and English, Tagalog is just fine by me as a bonus. As I said, this would not be my primary criterion for hiring.
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It's not about limiting my kids. My point is that I wouldn't hire a DH primarily on the basis of her language skills. If we were to hire a Mainland DH, then sure, Mandarin or Cantonese. If our DH is Filipina, then Tagalog.
For the record, my kids are Mandarin learning in school. So one does not preclude the other.
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Ed
14 yrs ago
We're getting people insulting people.... and making racist comments...
Please refrain otherwise we will ban...
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Axptguy38. my reply about future ML dhs being trained was in direct reply to Gaz, who infered they had poor hygeine standards,didn't know how to wash up dishes, and would allow children to 'dump in the street"
I am aware Philapinas are trained these days,as are other groups of FDH workers and only made an example of the one I had( who was in a minority) as comparison to what Gaz said ML Chinese would be like, to prove a point that they could not all be generalised, not all ML Chinese will be like that
There are many workers of any nationality,who have been here for years, without special training who are naturally excellent at their jobs, trained by employers.
I hope that if ML Chinese come to work here they are also trained, and I hope that they will be treated fairly and kept in good conditions, in their own country whilst being trained, and not have money extorted from them, the HK government need to seriously think about making sure these workers will be treated fairly by the chinese gov.. They will certainly add more interest/variety to the employment market by their culture, to suit varying needs by the multi-cultural population here, and yes the balance of workers of all backgrounds would change as a result.
Wasn't it not so long ago that there was a report about workers in Indonesia were being trained in 'Camps' in unfavourable conditions, please correct me if I am wrong, and I think if such training exsists anywhere then the main employing country ie HK or Singapore should check these places out in fareness to the people.
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Fair points Susie1.
I do agree that HK could exert more oversight on the originating countries. Certainly Indonesians tend to be in severe debt when they arrive due to some rather nasty practices fully condoned by their governments.
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I hope all Filipinos were send back home and banned in HK so that they will not felt racism here.Lets see what will happen if Indonesian, Thai, Sri Lankan, Mainlanders left here. Still have many countries they can work too.Many Filipinos are skilled workers.All over the world the population of Filipinos scattered in every country coz they are known as hardworking,friendly,God-fearing, and skilled people.
But one thing only..DONT JUDGE THE BOOK BY ITS COVER!
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"if they happen to come from an area which has no hot water"
What, they haven't invented fire yet?
Does your hot water come from the hot water factory, Susie?
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Wow, a hot water factory, how lovely, what a luxury!! I'm still rubbing sticks together to make my fire to boil water for washing my dishes.
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Precisely.
Where is the area which has no hot water?
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Another thing is that whilst this is all up in the air, Filipino helpers are going to be even more keen to work for expat families who are less likely to terminate in favour of a Mandarin speaker if the ban is lifted. Whilst I appreciate that speaking Mandarin is a big advantage, as a non-Mandarin speaker myself, I'd prioritise me being able to communicate with my helper properly over my son speaking mandarin, just because not being able to do so would throw up so many practical problems on a day to day basis.
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No expat I know would terminate a GOOD helper of any nationality in favour of ML Chinese. T
he good helpers of any nationality,will have no problem finding a job, but the mediocre to bad or dishonest ones will be weedled out and return to their home countries, that is one of the main attractions to having another nationality in the labour market, the language barrier which may exsist at first will soon be overcome, and it has its advantages also.
There are newcomers all the time to HK, who would consider more 'local' (Chinese ML) as we are HK SAR- part chinese, to integrate themselves and their Children within the culture they live, and take the oportunity to learn the language while they are here.
One of the nice things about living here is communicating with the locals, and learning about their culture, HK is not part of the West, and should keep its identity as an East Asian country, and be respected that way by anybody who comes to live here, we are the guests as expats.
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Only the language are different..But the nationality is the same..They are both Chinese..So Hongkongers warmed welcome the Mainlanders coz they are both Chinese and the culture is the same.. As the saying goes "THE SAME FEATHER FLOCKS TOGETHER"
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Steady on everyone, the message is that Chinese maids will be allowed to work in HK. It is not that only Chinese maids will be available.
Once again; you pays your money you takes your choice.
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Agreed!
What is worrying some people is the fierce competition and an alternative choice, which is good for the consumer.
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"Only the language are different..But the nationality is the same..They are both Chinese..So Hongkongers warmed welcome the Mainlanders coz they are both Chinese and the culture is the same.. As the saying goes "THE SAME FEATHER FLOCKS TOGETHER""
That's completely wrong and can only be said by someone who has not lived in China. There is a MASSIVE difference between the culture in HK and the culture in China - which is why HKers normally specify they are "Hong Kong Chinese".
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I think some good competition will be healthy, but I don't 'prices' are going to go down, no one from China is going to work in HK if they can't save money to send home.
The cold water thing is just an example, but with this particular example its not a minority - there is a 'chinese' way to do things and no amount of training is going to help that. Washing dishes in cold water and stacking them up in the cubbord without drying them is one of those things. Yeah not ALL mainland Chinese do this, but any that are at the level of working as a maid are. Its nothing to do with hot water being available or it being a luxury - that makes no difference to the situation.
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I didn't know that DHs don't get PR after working here for 7 years, that's pretty bad. 7 years is a long time to stay somewhere and still not have any local rights or even a guarantee that you will still be allowed to stay here next week. I think anyone who is needed by society and fill a need for 7 years should be granted permanent status.
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It's always been my understanding here that public and govt. opinion is very resistant to the idea of ML helpers for the very reasons/suspicions suggested - sneaking in friends, relatives, lovers. who will then disappear into the ether/factory etc. Or not...
But as someone pointed out, why would an educated ML woman want to come and work here when they can get a decent job at home? On other other hand, a DH in Shanghai makes about $12/hour, so what they'd get here is pretty good - IF they're on the maid "career" track anyway- but you're not going to get the Filipino nurses, teachers type etc who are here because they make more money as a FDH.
An American educated Filipino friend quit her job in a HK NGO and took a similar job in Manila - for about HK$5,000/month - which she was happy with (5-6 years ago). I suspect for what we pay here you have a better chance of getting a reasonably well educated person from a less developed country, than one from China, where there are more opportunities these days.
Hm, just read this back, hope it's clearer than mud!
And I disagree with the Indy article about the bus massacre being the cause of the drop in Phil. helper numbers- has the writer not heard of the greedy Phil's govt. imposing an extra insurance charge on their helpers? Could that have anything to do with it? In the end it may not be rivals from other countries that stick the boot in the Phil. helpers, it will probably be their own government.
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There are already quite a number of HK people working as part-time/ full time domestic helpers, the government has its own agency, plus there are quite a few other agencies, ie merry maids, and some lesser known ones in the phone book, I used to have one. The lady I used to have travelled all the way from NT to DB, and was glad of the money, plus the agency didn't charge extortionate fees, so she couldn't have been paid that much, she couldn't speak a word of English but we communicated well, nothing ever went missing, very honest.
The agency I found, came under cleaning companies, I can't remember the name it was such a long time ago, the only reason we stopped using the agency helper was that my husband decided it would be better to have a full-time live in helper to look after our dog when we travelled, something I will always regret ageeing to, we had a very difficult one.
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aliendavid:
"Expats why are you guys in Hong Kong, and China rather then Philipines and Indonesia?"
I happen to live in HK because of my job. I also know several expats who have lived in all or most of these countries and depends on circumstances in which (or if in any of ) those they will stay.
"Why are you learning mandarin and cantonese instead of tagolog and indonesian?"
I don't honestly know so many expats who have learned Cantonese to a very advanced level although they live in HK (most of very fluent Cantonese speaking gweilos I know are cops or former cops) whereas Mandarin is a popular subject. Based on this, I would suggest that the reasons are more commercial than cultural interests.
"-People who can afford two nannies will probably get an english speaking and a mandarin one just to get more exposure."
People who can afford nannies won't use domestic helpers to educate their kids but to do household chores.
Cowleyp
"You pays your money you takes your choice!"
Are you suggesting that HK employers (in any industry or domestic ones) are enjoying / should enjoy a free global employment market place where the lowest bidder can get a job in HK?
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Thanks for responding, but not really answering my questions.
You say you came here for your job, i'm glad you came here for your well paying job. I'm also glad for those ones who picked Philipines and Indonesia to who are there. Most people came to HK for their job, even the people from Philipines and Indonesia.
You say that learning Mandarin/Cantonese is more commercial rather then cultural. I would agree with you, but the fact is they are learning it. This could apply to learning computer programming, being a dentist, or anything else you would goto get a degree for those "commercial reasons" .
"People who can afford nannies won't use domestic helpers to educate their kids but to do household chores."
Interesting so you would let them to do chores, but not talk to your children.
"Are you suggesting that HK employers (in any industry or domestic ones) are enjoying / should enjoy a free global employment market place where the lowest bidder can get a job in HK?"
I think we would agree that people buy on "value" if they can get the most out of the least amount they will usually do that. If you do not like the way things are ran here start a movement, better yet go back west and get a high paying union job if there are any left, might i suggest the bankrupt General Motors.
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" If you do not like the way things are ran here start a movement, better yet go back west and get a high paying union job if there are any left, might i suggest the bankrupt General Motors."
I considered twice if I even bother to answer to a post that contains such a classic fallacious argument.
But I like how the things are; it's you who seemingly want to change them but I have to tell you: you have no power in HK to change anything and those who have, won't listen to you.
And there are (soon) no high paying union jobs left in the west and that healthy development that may bring me back some day. Or then I may consider a career as a strike general in PRD's Japanese owned factories - that seems to be a rising industry there. (I mean strikes).
"You say that learning Mandarin/Cantonese is more commercial rather then cultural. I would agree with you, but the fact is they are learning it. This could apply to learning computer programming, being a dentist, or anything else you would goto get a degree for those "commercial reasons""
People also recycle tin cans, cardboard and newspaper for commercial reasons.
Don't get me wrong, I'm personally interested in languages, although I'm more or less fluent only in 3 languages and have satisfactory or beginner's level in 2 more. Which is still a very limited set of languages compared with that of some of my friends who are fluent in at least five.
I truly would like to have more time to learn Chinese because you need time to learn it, the main reason being the characters. But this means also that the Chinese need time to learn the language.
Which in turn leads to the fact that the Mandaring language skills of a DH with quite a low level of education are not so brilliant and hardly something that you wanted to be taught to your children.
If I start to learn more Cantonese, I won't hire a minibus driver to be my teacher - otherwise apprx. 50 % of my words would also be "Ya mou gau cho-a, diu lei lo mo!" and I'd be shouting at people.
"Interesting so you would let them to do chores, but not talk to your children."
I was not talking about it. Going rate for an educated nanny is aroung HKD 30,000 per month and that of a FDH is less than 4000.
So you hire a DH and wish to have a nanny and still you think that you are paying too much and you should be able to hire the lowest bidder.
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Hi Aliendavid, no I am not suggesting free market where the cost of DH's is set by nationality, God forbid. My comment is meant to point out that as the employer you have the fight t choose your employee. Hopefully we choose on merit but at the end of the day the decision for whatever reason is yours.
Grytch's comment is true; HK Chinese are as the name implies Chinese. There are clearly many different cultural and ethnic groups in China, of which HK is now a part but they are all Chinese. Gaz_hayes perhaps you should visit one of the Chinatowns in the larger European of American cities and reappraise your view. You will find all kinds of Chinese living together in one area by choice.
There is a status or face issue to employing DH's of differing nationalities and a mainland worker might be viewed as less impressive, perhaps like having a Toyota and not a Merc!
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I think HK banned ML Chinese amahs to come here.Because HK is maintaining its policy to very strict in their population.Because HK and ML is under Chinas government, if the MLs are easily come to HK there will be more illegal workers, illegal migration will happened.
And I think if rich and middle class employers concerned about the language of their children to have a good english and study in an international school or high standard school, Iam 100% sure they will hire Filipino DH.But if some employers concerned only in their national language like potunghua and cantonese they will hire Indonesian or MLs.
As what I had knew most of the rich people here in HK and some actress and actor their helpers are Filipinos.
Well for me MLs are welcome to be an amahs here in HK.
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"They are cheaper too and far less orgainsed than Filipinos, not that I agree but that seems to be a big driving force for Indoneasians and turn off for local emplyers towards Filipinos. "
Indonesians aren't any cheaper than Filipinos; both have the same minimum pay and if someone gets more, it's about demand and supply.
Of course there may be a major trend among employers towards ignoring laws and regulations of HK....
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Up to 30% of Filipino's are Chinese or of Chinese descent, mostly prominent businessmen but are very influential in the whole political and immigration scene (Corazon Cojuangco Aquino was half Chinese for example). Most of the agencies I have spoken to are run by a mixture of these Chinese Filipino and Chinese persons. My experience is that they look down on the indigenous community who in turn resent their power and influence as is true elsewhere in Asia.
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Indonesians are not nominally cheaper but it is far more common for an Indonesian than for a Filipina to accept being paid under the minimum wage and get no rest days.
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Employing anyone is a bit of lottery. However you can improve the odds greatly with recommendations from people you know and good interview skills.
We are "nice" to our helper but we also know she would never steal or lie. The mistake some employers make is that they are very nice regardless of the helper's attitude. Be nice, but expect good performance in return.
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As a helper, for me, its true that if an employer is nice to you, you must return them a good attitude also and good performance at work. Even me I buy some food and give some of them to taste.If they are kind to me, Iam kind also, if they treat me nice I treat them nice also, and if they don't abuse me I return them my very good hearted person.
Only one thing is that.DISCIPLINE within oneself is the foundation of all this kind of attitude.Without discipline on yourself you cannot do what is right and what is wrong.
So whereever country you came from it doesn't matter as being a helper. Every individual has its own attitude. Cannot tell the wrong of Ana is also a wrong of Maria.It does not reflect ones behavior unto others.
Regarding about Indonesian helpers paying below minimum wage. Yes its true, but some is not. In our building here in one family they are two Indonesian helpers I asked the other one how much their salary and she told me only $2000 for her and $1800 for the other one and without a day off.Hilarious! and felt pity to those misfortunate people.Before I saw her first came in HK she is fat, but now very thin.But still its ok with here. I always talk to her every afternoon when we pick up the kids.See? that's why the number of Indonesian helpers here in HL are more compared to Filipino helpers. As in most of them are like that pay less than minimum wage. Of course! their employers are Chinese..
But Iam thankful that my boss (Chinese) is nice to me especially the kid.So they are thankful also that I signed another contract to them in returned of their good treat on me.And I do the same too.
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To all of you. Very interesting and funny.
1st get out of your box and go to live in China and try to find a proper DH (Good luck) no basic education, careless, and mostly useless.
Mandarin. Forget except if they r from north China. skills (what skills, oh! i need to work also if i am paid...! CNY sorry i go home for a month and may b i will b back)
ok Indos or Pinays might not be the best but considering how you treat them (Mostly Hong kong nationals, be happy Slaves masters) One for all Chineses should look at themselves a bit before putting all on the bad Laowai. Asian prostition 90% toward local market (karoke, massage etc... and they keep telling us Westerners are very open) world of hypocrites, all under cover(5000 years of history man). Don't misunderstand me like Asia just tired of bullshit talk toward westeners who brings all bad things (prostitution, deceases, drugs etc...) who ran drugs in the world ?? Chines mafia, decease mostly pearl river delta origin, prostitution (Asian organisation..) yes we westerners are culprid as well for all of this but we don't put that on the Chinese...
Last but not least, would take 10 times an Indonesian or Pilippines maid versus a mainland one and i have no problem neither in communication nor basic ethnic issue. 13 years around. treat well a SEA lady and she will be a nice helper, treat well a Mainland lady (thank! i will find more way to screw you).....
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FKKC
14 yrs ago
Quote from grytch 'As most of them are like that pay less than minimum wage. Of course, their employers are Chinese.."
Wonder why she is is so empty-headed and still works for a Chinese family. Maybe she wouldn't find a Western boss to prey on.
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FKKC maybe 95% of Indonesian or 98% of Indonesian helper here in HK are working on Chinese employers only as Western employers don't hired them because of language barrier.
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There is a big article in todays SCMP, Thursday 20th, about the training of mainland helpers, front page shows mainland helpers being taught to handle newborns (dolls), training is already under way up to HK standards, so I think it is only a matter of time until they arrive.
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There is a big article in todays SCMP, Thursday 20th, about the training of mainland helpers, front page shows mainland helpers being taught to handle newborns (dolls), training is already under way up to HK standards, so I think it is only a matter of time until they arrive.
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MaryO
14 yrs ago
Good! It's about time that HK employed maids from China.
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So go! go! go!..Come here quick so that Philippine helpers can go home soon..And no need to be a slave o oh..I mean no need to work as a helper anymore..;)
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So go! go! go!..Come here quick so that Philippine halpers can go home soon..And no need to be a slave o oh..I mean no need to work as a helper anymore..;)
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MaryO
14 yrs ago
grytch- your boss is, or is not nice? You're confusing me.
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And what the heck are "HK Standards"?
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Maryo hmmmm...50 50...oh maybe 60 40 ;)
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maxis
14 yrs ago
HK Standards? Seems the standard depends entirely on what the employer wants to do. If you mean walking behing the family,carrying the kids' schoolbags and the shopping, or utilising them as a food server at a resturant, or 4 times/week carwasher? Well then perhaps that is HK standard.
It is advantageous to have people who are economically disadvantaged and who are considered socially inferior and who are not nationals, to do the grubby work.
Not surprisingly, it doesn't feel quite as comfortable taking advantage of someone of one's own ethnicity, as it does to an inferior foreigner who only gets 14 days to find a new job if you fire them.
I dont think local HK people will hire a ML helper if she will only work one shift per day, like the HK native helpers, and have indigenous CN basic rights.
Not sure CN government will allow the HK government to turn a blind eye to allow HK people to treat CN ethnic DH to same "HK standard" they treat PH, ID and IN nationals who are DH.
A lot of local HK people may find they dont get the same "bang for their buck" from a CN DH as they get from a PH, ID, IN or TH DH.
Not sure the CN DH's (or the Beijing Administration) would tolerate the things 3rd world FDH put up with to make a buck.
It seems probable that CN DH would be in a safer position than FDH are now, and ultiumately perhaps FDH's social standing would also increase?
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Maxis, you obviously live in parallel universe, the majority of domestic helpers here live in a situation far above what they would have enjoyed at home and eat food in excess and of a better quality to what they would have been able to afford at home. The FDH I know would prefer to remain living here if they could afford it as it is a better way of life for them. I'm sure Chinese DH would welcome the opportunity.
I don't think frequent washing of the car, carrying children's school bags or the shopping is an offence to the domestic helper, and if the job is balanced I don't see the problem with it....but serving in a restaurant is illegal.
You only have to go and look outside of Hong Kong island and perhaps, read a little about the cage people to realise that many locals and newly immigrant chinese do a lot more of the grubby work in HK. Their accommodation defies description, their diet is terrible and the work they do is dangerous as the OHS is robust with loads of laws and ordinances but weak on surveillance and enforcement, so they end up with terrible injuries which I have seen first hand. They tolerate way more than the average FDH and their total package is lower. Just look at the older workers pushing card board on the streets, or sitting in the baking sun to sell a few flowers at the cemetery or in the construction sites.
About FDH being seen as inferior, I agree in some part but overall HK is a very judgemental place, even the locals look down on each other! Who's richer, who's poorer, who's not as smart, who's children are failures blah, blah, blah....so don't think is just a special judgement reserved for foreigners.
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maxis
14 yrs ago
Lagrue.
Obvioulsy if a parallel universe means not thinking in your mindframe, then that would be the place to be.
To suggest that treating someone at a lower standard than generally what is tolerable for the same position locally, simply because it is better tan where they come from, is wrong.
FDH are not cage people and the rest of your commets are not even based on the topic, so please keep to the issues.
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tly
14 yrs ago
I had a baby mid last year and since my FDH's visa was not ready yet, by folks were able to ask a distant relative to come help me out who was from the mainland. IT WAS SHOCKING!!!
Believe me folks, I have had one actually stay with me to help me out for a few weeks and it was a nightmare. I am Chinese myself, so I know how much lower my Chinese relatives from the mainland are when it comes to cleanliness standards. For them, rinsing the dishes with cold water is enough. She was shocked when i asked her why she did not use dishwashing liquid to wash the drinking glass because she did not understand how I was able to tell. The drinking glass was greasy! She just ran it under the tap and put it away. She used the toilet bowl brush to brush the WHOLE toilet, seat and all! I was horrified. I had to teach her what the toilet brush was for. I also had to teach her that you had to vacuum or sweep the floor before you mopped. She mopped our whole floor one day while I was still asleep and I could see the floral patterns of dried crap all over the floor. My list goes on and on. If the mainlanders start coming in, I can just imagine how this section of the forum is going to light up with more people screaming for help and venting their frustrations. It is just the way life is there for them. They do not see our fascination with cleanliness. I've lived in Shanghai, I saw what it was like. NO ONE washes their hands after using the toilet. I may have been shocked with the way our relative was, but I bet she thought I had serious issues with how I lived. I can only imagine what she must have told her family about her distant crazy relative that wanted her to wash her hands before cooking, after using the toilet and before eating.
I have nothing against them. I'm just saying we need to be ready for a whole bunch of new issues if we start to hire mainlanders. I was on edge having her help me around the house, what more if she started helping me watch the kids! That was where I had to give my folks a call and ask them to kindly ask her to go home. I may have been able to teach her all about housework and cooking, but I could not imagine having her help me with the baby. I could not trust her standard of safety, sanitation and nutrition. That was where I drew the line and decided to send her home.
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A comment on this old news
"There is a big article in todays SCMP, Thursday 20th, about the training of mainland helpers, front page shows mainland helpers being taught to handle newborns (dolls), training is already under way up to HK standards, so I think it is only a matter of time until they arrive."
If you read that article carefully, there is no indication that large numbers of Mainland helpers would come to HK but there was a shortage of helpers (in Mainland ) who would would meet the standards that are required by HK people living there and Mainland upper middle class or upper class that employ DHs.
Hence the training.
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