Posted by
ny123
18 yrs ago
my helper is in the process of bringing her troubled younger sister here as on a tourist visa. she was hoping her sister can land a job here as a domestic helper. as i am new to this - i have no idea how she is going to go about extending her visa after her sis landed in hk. can anyone shed some light here?
my helper and i are on good terms - sometimes, i wish i had maintained the employer/employee relationship better. eg she borrowed money from me but instead of repaying me on a monthly basis like she promised, she constantly came up with excuses for not repaying. is this a fairly common problem?
Now i am getting kind of worried when her sister is in hk - i don't want her in my place - but i get the feeling she will be. i have not said anything yet to my helper about not wanting her sister in my place. partly, i am afraid she will give me the nasty behaviour once i turned her down. also we travel a lot, and i don't feel comfortable at all having this stranger in my place.
another question - my helper is constantly on her mobile - more so lately - while cleaning, cooking, and even at night. i know she can talk on the phone during her rest time, but her loudness on the phone is sometimes getting into me. anyone experience this before?
please no sarcastic comments - i am seriously looking for advice here.
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Firstly - your helpers sister if she finds a job will have to return to the Philipines for the processing, and then return when all is clear - she cannot stay here while everything is getting processed.
You need to talk to your helper about the money she owes you - tell her the balance will be coming out of her pay each month over a period of how many months and that is that - you are in control of this and take it out before you give her the pay. She needs to sign for her pay each month - just make sure she has signed the loan amount too.
She will never pay you back if you do not demand the demand the money and take action yourself.
With regard to her sister staying - you need to tell her you do not want her to be in your house - whether that means at all or only when you are home is up to you. Certainly not staying. Make it very clear that this is an instruction, and if it is not upheld she will lose her job. if she turns nasty - then that is the time to let her go. And let her know that the expectation is that she will maintain her normal working temperament.
The mobile phone- you have to set the boundaries - would you be allowed on your mobile phone while working - I don't think so - so you need to tell her it is not acceptable - and give her times when she can call.
It sounds like this girl is testing her limits and unless you bring her into line, I think she will continue to take advantage of you. It is not too late to start becoming a boss, and if she doesn't like then she can leave or you can sack her.
You need to talk to her, have what you want written down, she sign that she understands your instructions. Then you have recourse if she fails to uphold her side of the agreement.
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TC
18 yrs ago
Agree with the above good words. You need to take control. Discuss the loan repayment plan with her (and by 'discuss' I mean tell her what you are going to do and try to come to some agreement on the monthly amount) and have her sign an acknowledgement of the debt and an agreement to the repayment plan. Also make it clear that your house is your home and is not a half-way house for all and sundry. Take control and good luck!
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You've had some good advice already from dimac and TC. I would add to their comments and advise you to be wary of being asked for more assistance from your helper, such as sister has run out of money and needs a place to stay/money for hotel/money for ticket home.
The Immigration Dept. is usually alert to Filipinos on tourist visas who try to extend their visas. You might be asked for assistance with this. I could go into examples but I suggest you just be aware of this possibility.
If the sister finds a job, you might be asked to give a reference for her to the potential employer. Sounds odds but it has happened and was regretted by the person I know who felt obliged by his helper to do it.
You may also find your helper neglects some of her duties because she wants/has to spend time with her sister. You may even be asked to help the sister to find a job.
All these things have happened to people I know. Each thought at the beginning that they were being nice but each regretted getting involved. And the deeper involved they got, the worse their own helper became if any request was denied.
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ny123
18 yrs ago
thanks everyone - i hated confrontations - more so if i have to deal with teary eyes - it makes me feel like a monster. that's why i always end up giving in. she is ok except for those annoying habits. is it just her or do they all cry when they need to talk about routines etc.
fyi she asked me if i know anyone who needs a helper. all i said to her was she is too young, and had no experience. but she insisted she did part time help in manila before so it should not be a problem. she always mentioned it would be nice if my children could play with her sister when she gets here - which i did not reply. i think she is testing my reaction to this.
guess i can't avoid it and had to deal with this head on.
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Wow, she's moving quickly. She's already done two of the things I mentioned. One, asking you help to find the sister a job and, two, asking for a reference (playing with your children so you can tell potential employer she is good/has experience with kids).
Ask yourself how you would deal with such an employee, say a personal assistant, in your office. Would you stand for non-repayment of a personal loan? Would you stand for tears if you asked her to be a bit quieter during her personal phone calls? Would you stand for tears because you asked her to, I guess, change the filing system?
I'm not quite sure exactly what you mean about tears over talking about routines but explain you are not telling her off (happy with her work, etc.) but just want to try to do things in another way. Remember, tears are a form of manipulation - you're a mum so you know that LOL - so hers may not be "real". She do seem to be testing you - again you're a mum so you know about this - but you don't want to make a kind of game of this. Confrontations don't work but polite, firm instructions do. It is, as dimac and TC say, about boundaries and limits. Be firm but fair.
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A suggestion - when you plan to do the talking to that you have another person with you as an ally who knows what you want (discuss beforehand) and who is willing to uphold these items - whether it be your husband or another person - if you have an advocate with you you are less likely to break down to her demands and tears. Give them permission to step in at a given signal if you want.
You also need to do some positive talking to yourself beforehand - "I am the employer, it is my home, I am in charge" say this to yourself a few times before the 'discussion' and if she starts with the tears - say it again - either to yourself or out loud (more effective if its out loud during the tears etc). This reminder will give you strength to continue and not give into her manipulations.
They try it on alot through their tears.....as children do. It is an immature method of dealing with situations which they do not want to deal with,
Good luck with it - remember- you are the employer, it is your house and you are in charge.
(I say a modified version to myself even with my own children when they try it on - it does work)
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ny123
18 yrs ago
thanks again for advice. i did talk to her - informally about her phone habits - dimac4 - i had to recite that phrase in my head over and over again. she did seem to take the cue and her habits did improve a tiny bit. i know i am such a push over about this, and that is probably why she is behaving the way she is now. i admit i am such a scary cat. so i can't blame anyone for this. it is just me. getting someone to sit in while i talk to her is a very good suggestion. we are very very new here - and i don't think any of my new friends will be willing to go this. she did put up a sour face when i mentioned her phone habits - and whenever i asked her something -she won't answer - pretended she did not hear me. although it (her behaviour) did stop the next day.
now my other problem is telling her her sis is not welcome in my place. i don't know how she will react to that. ps tell me - am i being a monster here by not letting her sis come by?
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ny123, you have got to get a grip on yourself - you are the employer and she has worked you out to be a pushover, hence the behaviour and the crap faces she gives when you try to bring her into line.
This girl is taking advantage of you and your good nature - one of two things need to happen for anything to change - either you need to change or you get rid of her and employ someone who is not going to take advantage of you. If you don't change you are going to have an interesting time when your children become teenagers.
She will be assuming that her sister will be staying with her at your house - because even though she has not asked you about this, she has figured out that when her sister arrives on the doorstep you will not turn her away, if you do she will turn on the tears and you will give in...doesn't this make you angry?? indignant??? She has worked you out to be a patsy, door mat and a pushover. Do you like being treated like this in your own home?
Doesn't matter if you don't like confrontation - no one does - but you need to take control, if only for the sake of your own children as a model of what a person should be doing in making their claim in their home. Assertiveness is not aggressiveness, it is making sure you get what you want.....
As far as I can see you want a couple of things....
1. The maid is not to use her mobile phone during working hours.
2. Her sister is not to be staying at your house.
3. You want your loan repayed within 6 months (or whatever).
You need to put this in writing, you need to explain that these are your requests, if they are not met, then she will lose her job. end of story. no tears stood for and no fussing. Have her sign the paper and leave the room with a copy of the signed document. Do not feel bad and do not enter into further discussion. When she breaks the warning/contract you need to tell her that she is breaking the agreement - with one warning letter - then the next time she is out.
You are the employer,it is your home, you are in charge.
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so NY123 - what has happened have you asked the Q about her sister yet???
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Yup, you've got really good advice already. But note that on the deductions for the recovery of any wages made by the employer to the helper but subject to a maximum of one quarter of the wage payable in one wage period, under the employment ordinance, the total of all deductions, excluding those for absence from work, made in any one wage period must not exceed one half of the wages payable for that period. So, be sure to plan now on her loan repayment schedule lest you want to be left unpaid for.
Re: her sister, there is a requirement by the director of immigration that overseas maids has to have a 2 years working experience as a domestic helper to be eligible to work here in HK. Also, if she stayed in your place, she might use your address as her residential address in her applications. You might be requested to be her referral, and if something happens to her within her stay with you, you might be liable for that. Beware..
Good luck and best regards!
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ny123
18 yrs ago
thanks for everyone's advice. we just came back from a short trip. i did ask about her sister's accomodation. and the answer was in a boarding house. i suspect she wanted me to ask further eg how much, with who etc etc. but i just kept quiet. i did tell her that it is illegal for her to stay at our place since i am not employing her. i think she is a smart girl, and she will catch the meaning. although later on i will have to tell her i don't want her lingering in my house in the day time, epecially when we are not around. but i guess there is no way of knowing whether her sis is in our house when we are not here. or are there any suggestions to this?
also what i don't understand is how did she manage to come in as a tourist - which i was told a 2 weeks visa, and her return ticket is actually 6 months later. don't the immigration officers get curious as to why this person's return ticket is 6 months down the road, and not 2 weeks? why is she constant extending her visa by crossing the border via macau or china? doesn't that give a red flag somewhere? i just find it so amazing there is such a loophole in the system for these sort of 'visitors'. and check this out, my helper told me there are so many of her friends doing the same thing. extending and extending their tourist visas, and their jobs here are part time helpers, hawkers on sundays. some merely want to earn some cash to send home, but some are actually trying to find husbands here.
i guess my next step will be when the sis is actually in hk, i will have to tell her not to linger in my apt during daytime.
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Reminds me of a friend. He met a girl from SE Asia in HK ‘on holiday’, (she was staying with her friend). Within two days she had managed to move in with him (so she could cook for him, clean for him, never wanted to be away from him etc etc). Within a few weeks she was pregnant (could not have an abortion as she said it was a sin), in a few months she was married to him & living in HK (it was for the kid’s sake and because it made the visas situation easier, it saved her having to keep going on visa runs out of HK); meanwhile he had bought her land in her country (in her name), paid for her brothers college & her parents house and had various family members coming over to stay in HK to ‘assist with the house work’ etc. Shortly after she persuaded him to move back to Europe as she explained to him how it would suit his career better(?). Upon living a short while in the EU he was not happy & wanted to return to HK but she explained to him she needed a passport other than the one from her country (due to always needing visas when the travelled) so they stayed in EU in order to meet the required residency duration necessary for nationality. She has managed to go from nothing to where she is now in just three years or so & knows if they now get divorced she will get half his savings/property, she will remain in the EU, has/will shortly have a EU passport and she will no doubt get child custody. Currently she is looking into how she can sponsor some of her family members to stay with her in the EU….
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ny123
18 yrs ago
oh my gosh!!!! sounds dreadful!!!!i sure hope none of these will ever happen to even the people i don't like. it must be hard.
does anyone have any insights as to why the hk immigration will allow people to get in with a visitor visa, and then close one eye when they try to extend it umpteen times via macau and shenzhen? doesn't that trigger a red flag somewhere??
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Assuming that they respect each other and the EU guy is not a stupid man, I fail to see anything wrong with the SE Asian girl to be in her position now within 3 years.
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Mita5chome,
You are right she has done very well for herself as her plans all worked out as she had hoped.
ny123,
ID do get suspicious after a few visa runs - I know someone who was finally refused a visa, apprently she applied a few months later however & got one. Also in my friends case ID did not grant her a HK residency visa straight away they had to go back a few times but finally one was granted.
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Yes the story of the EU man and SE Asian woman doesn't bother or surprise me in the slightest - there are a lot of very unappealing men walking around with young cute girls here - it is a trade off. These women (as a rule - please, no outraged replies) probably would not be with a lot of these men if there was not something they could get out of it. All things being equal, we'd all prefer a young, good looking partner, but we all make compromises. I am working for a company with practices I do not approve of, but I accept that working here puts me and my family in a more secure financial position. The company benefits from it too as they get me... It's absolutely no different from old gwai-man with young Asian girl (and in the above case I'd bet my bonus that looks/age-wise, the man is getting the better deal).
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Nah - the British are famous for it - I'm British and don't want to offend anyone, as I know plenty of people in very happy cross-cultural marriages, but I also know many people whose marriages are perhaps perfectly happy but based on more than the usual relationship issues. I don't think it's about being naive - if I was old and ugly but very rich, but could get a young cute husband just by sending a bit if money home to his family once in a while (OK, and buying him some land, some nice shoes, arranging a new passport, etc) then I'd probably do it too.
Also, remember there are many benefits to having a wife that doesn't carp on about gender equality (such as perhaps the British - who expect an equal contribution on the nappy changing and cooking and cleaning front) or who doesn't expect a new Gucci handbag and flowers sent to the office on her birthday/Valentine's day...
And anyway, it's nice that if you're feeling a bit down and need cheering up you can go just about anywhere in town and laugh at the fat old men (bald, w/ beer gut, generally) with young wives who are talking on the phone in Tagalog/Thai to their young lovers...
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My friend was a sports minded mid 30's college educated professional guy with a good/reasonable job but he was starting to feel under pressure as most other friends/colleagues his age were married and had kids and primarily due to work and travel he had not been in a serious relationship since he and his fiance split a while back. I just wanted to post a true story that I thought may have had some relevance and interest to those who read this forum, no more from me on this subject!
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Voila - he found an incubator for his children and she got an EU passport. Point proven.
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But I don't think they are divorcing, are they? Sure, IF they divorce she can get all that... but perhaps she has no intention of getting divorced. I know plenty of English women who would stand to do very well financially out of divorcing their husbands, but it doesn't mean they will..., and it doesn't mean they are wrong...
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Good point. And good for her for being prepared (house, passport etc) for when he moves onto a newer model.
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Just watch out for AIDS - Asian Induced Divorce Syndrome while you ar ein HK - quite prevalent amongst Cathay Pilots who work around and go away with single,beautiful young asian women of all persuasions all the time - these girls are aggressive and know what they need to do to get the man they want...they are not too concerned about breaking up families etc. The men need to be very strong and in love with their wives to fight off such temptations....
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I don't really understand women who employ young and cute helpers - when I was first pregnant and getting my first helper there was no way I was getting anyone young or remotely attractive when I was bad-tempered and the size of a house. Why take the chance...?
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So on your list of criteria "fat AND ugly (and stupid??), can cook, clean and look after kids!"....hahaha but a fair point I think!
I do know of a few relationships after being here for so long where the husband found the maid to be quite a temptation - I am sure with a bit of flirting on her side and rose coloured glasses on his, but it is also the case with bar maids, flight attendants etc. where they need to capture a man who earns far more than they do - and even after a messy divorce with 1/2 of assests being siphoned off - they are still way better off than before. And then men get "looked after" much better by their own judgement. The ones who lose out are the wives and children who get get traded in.
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Ah - so the mother/ mother in law still has the last say... ;-) funny!
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this has been a very sensible and interesting discussion until foolsevery1 (the biggest of them all) stepped in... went downhill from there
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(I didn't want an ugly/fat helper, but I did make sure that my first helper was 15 years older than me (and very religious) so I though that would make sense.)
I do find it funny that a lot of the helper pictures on this site are in skimpy outfits posing provocatively on a beach - I mean really, am I going to hire this person?
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