Neighbour's helper being hit

Our next door neighbours are forever screaming at their 2 Indonesian helpers on a daily basis. We have also witnessed them hitting the helpers in their yard. As our yards are adjacent, I am also almost certain that the helpers do not get a day off weekly as entitled, but I have of course not kept any records to confirm that - I just hear them screaming at the helpers every day without relief.


Recently the 2 helpers have been asking our helper and other helpers nearby for help. I am reluctant to get involved in a neighbour's affairs, but do feel sorry for the helpers. It is patently obvious to all around that they work from at least 6 am to sometimes 1 am.


I am sure that if the mistreatment had been directed at say, dogs, over the same period of time, someone would have reported it to the relevant authorities. We have suggested through our helper that the 2 DHs contact the Labour Dept. but there is a difficulty in communication as our helper is Philippino & also a practical difficulty as the 2 don't seem to have any time off in which to lodge a complaint.


Does anyone have any ideas / suggestions?

You can report it to the police and they will take it up from there - if they are being hit it is assault and battery in the first instance, then the Labour Dept can take it from there.


You have a responsibility to these two people - how will you feel when they are beaten so badly and you did nothing about it even though you knew what was going on? You have a human responsibility to be involved - your neighbours are not deserving of the respect for you to keep out of their affairs

Are you certain you yourself have seen them being hit (sure enough not to start doubting your own memory under harsh cross-examination... for example if the ladies lose their nerve and tell the police the hitting never happened)? If you are certain they have been hit, report it to the police and let the police know that the ladies need an interpreter. Hitting is a crime, pure and simple. If you see them being hit again, call 999. And as dimac says, how will you feel if someone else (your own DH?) reports the crime and you are questioned/cross examined? Will you just tell the police/court, "Yes, I saw them being hit but I couldn't be bothered to report the crime." Or will you lie? [For heaven's sake don't tell your DH not to report it - that could get you into all sorts of trouble.]

If you contact the labour department about these issues then you best make sure your neighbour know that you initiated this - otherwise they will think the helpers did and there will be hell to pay...


http://www.jobs.gov.hk/eng/domestic/content.asp


Another comment on this - dont be afraid to stand up to people if you see them doing something wrong - if they were beating their kids I assume we'd all be stepping in...


I once was on a tram and a maid was struggling to get through the door to exit because she had a cart full of groceries - instead of helping her the tram conductor screamed at her as if she were a dog telling her to hurry up and get off. I went over and gave it to him in his face and gave the lady a hand... the conductor didnt say too much because I am sure he knew his behavious was unacceptable...


Not sure if you want to do that with your neighbour but you might want to let them know you will go to the labour dept if you see physical abuse...

Write a letter to the Labour Dept, cc your neighbour ( so they know it's you and not the helper), the police (in case there's any trouble from your neighbour), your lawyer (mythical if necessary - again, just to make your neighbours think twice about retaliating)and take it from there. As others have said - if something worse happens (and it probably will) how will you feel if you haven't got involved?

Oh, and I wouldn't warn your neighbours that if you SEE them hit the helpers again you'll go to the LD, because they'll just get beaten even worse, but inside the house. You've seen it already, that's enough.

VIDEO TAPE IT!

then, you can be sure you really saw it, and if they are afraid to testify, you can just had in the proof. In fact, that way you can do it annonymously. report it, send in a copy of the tape, and no-one (expat the people here) will be none the wiser.


Unfortunately if I saw a neighbours wife being beat, I would stay out of it. That is a totally different category of being helpless.

Whoa! A lot of hasty judgements here, given that the full situation was not provided initially for want of brevity.


Firstly, I asked for constructive suggestions, in order to be able to help. Accusations based on unfounded assumptions will help no one, least of all the 2 helpers. Granted, I didn't explain the whole scenario, but I was really looking for advice re the next step, not accusations of "why didn't you do this?" when you don't know whether I did or not.


OK, the neighbours moved in about 10 months ago. They hired Indonesian DH No 1, who underwent the screaming, etc. My husband saw the woman of the house shove the maid once while screaming at her early one morning (6 am on the weekend); my daughter saw her hit the maid with her hand once, and I did as well - once. In between there was a lot of screaming at the helper from the female employer, which stopped after I commented out loud within earshot that I found that kind of treatment disturbing. Unfortunately they also have a Chinese housekeeper who continued to scream at the helper. The helper managed to talk to our helper in passing a few times and we suggested that she contact either the Indonesian Helpers'Assoc and the agency that hired her. After about a month, the helper happily said that she was returning home, which she did, although we were never too sure of the entire circumstance.


Indonesian Helper No 2 arrived (BTW the nos are in no way meant to be demeaning; as I do not know their names this is just a quick & easy method of identification - before I get more accusations) and appeared to be working well in that we seldom heard any screaming and yelling and no complaints emanated from the helper during the 6 or so months.


Recently Indonesian Helper No 3 arrived to work with the 2nd helper. This is when the screaming & carrying on resumed and when both the helpers started to complain about being hit. I have to say that this time we didn't see the hitting. With the first helper, my daughter made sure that she was seen observing the hitting incident, and I made a loud comment after my witnessing of the incident to make sure that they were aware of my presence as well. However this time we have not witnessed the hitting, which would presumably have occurred within the airconditioned walls.


It is also highly impractical to videotape this, unless I stand at my balcony 24/7 with my videocam waiting. By the time it occurs and you are aware of it, it is too late to get the videocam, unless my life were to revolve entirely on observing the neighbours outside their house.


There is a real communication problem for the 2 helpers. Their only opportunity is when they are outside the house carrying the shopping from the cars, or washing the cars, or throwing the rubbish. That appears to be the only time that they are outside the house. There is only 1 other Indonesian helper around that they can communicate with, all the rest are Philippinas and snatched conversations are conducted in Cantonese - the 2nd language for all concerned. They do not appear to understand English from the few times that I have managed to meet them. Also they appear to feel safer talking with the other helpers instead of their employers. The info I have obtained about these 2 helpers' situation has all been 3rd hand (except for the verbal abuse which the entire neighbourhood can hear). Today I was told by my helper that only 1 of the 2 helpers gets fed a day, ie they get to eat on alternative days only - which by way of mistreatment is bizarre.


The trouble is, one has to be sure of the facts before making an official complaint and I am not at all sure of the accuracy of the information I have been given. Things I think I know, eg that they do not seem to get any days off, I am not certain about.


Ideally I would like to be able to give them an opportunity to talk to a member of the Indonesian Migrant Workers'Assoc (from today's SCMP article re the treatment of Indonesian maids) so that facts can be ascertained and separated from speculation. Practically this will be difficult from the point of access.


I think it will be detrimental to the helpers to confront the employers. A large bulk of the ongoing verbal abuse is given by their housekeeper anyway.


Finally, the police have turned up and spoken to the neighbours on about 4 occasions, but whether this was to do with complaints about barking dogs or anything else, I am not sure.

One suggestion for the the Indonesian helpers is to use a mobile phone to record the abuse if they can. ( Discreetly, of course.)


If they decided to bring the complaints to the Labour Dept, the recording can be a supporting evidence.


It's not an easy task to prove someone has abused the helpers by pushing or hitting (unless they can provide a doc's certificate .) One Indonesian helper I know would like to bring the case to the labour dept but finds it difficult to prove it.