Posted by
smsm
16 yrs ago
She's way out of league here and taking you for a complete ride i think. Leaving child unattended is a comp no no and obviously cant be trusted after this. I think you are being extremely generous and good with her but if despite of that her behaviour is unsatisfactory, you should probably look for a change.
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i would say a warning and then let go - but then can you trust her? would you want to wait and see if you catch her again - prob not - when it comes to children, there is no two ways about it - we are trusting the helper with our kids life - she has to go i think...
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Agreed with Idsllvn. Warning, and if it continues let her go. Make sure you come home at irregular times.
To give an example of "how it should work", our helper will sometimes shower while watching the kids, for example after being in the pool or playing outside in the heat. But it's typically a 3 minute thing. When my #2 was really small, she would put her on the floor in the bathroom just to be sure. Nowadays she doesn't need to, but the environment in eminently child proof so it's not really an issue. She would never leave the child unattended for long, or at all if the environment wasn't safe.
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maz27
16 yrs ago
I too would give her a warning that this is not acceptable and would also bring up the other issues you have a problem with. My helper has her shower before the children get up at 7am and it lasts merely a few 5 minutes or so and never leaves my youngest unattended unless someone else is around.
It sounds like she is not the right person for you and she obviously doesn't care to change her ways. There are good helpers out there - thankfully we have one whom we all adore.
By the way I must warn you, 2 friends of mine have recently dismissed their helpers for a varity of reasons and I'm not saying all helpers are like this, but both of them stole things when they were packing up to leave. Whilst I agree it seems harsh but please make sure you are around to watch her pack up and leave and check her bags!!
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
If what you wrote is the fact, I don't think she is suitable to work for your family. You need someone who is not too overtired to babysit for you and to do the house-work well in your home....you are not getting it.
Apparently, after you let her off from your place at 1800 to go home to hers, she is still working (for her own family) so she really have no time to rest so how can she cope well when she has to be at your home at 0650 the next morning.
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
My mistake as I got the wrong impression of your helper staying out and returning back to your place the next morning. Sorry!
Nevertheless, it still came to the same result as she is working in 2 households and have no sufficient rest. Her obvious poor performance tells it all.
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Joeuk
16 yrs ago
I would give her a warning, but keep a check! Just drop in as if you have forgotten something, if she know's you are keeping an eye she may become resentful and you could have more problems. My helper did have shower's whilst looking after the kids but as soon as I found out I asked her not to, as far as I know it stopped.
But if you are unhappy with her work in general maybe look for a new helper anyway.
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I'm afraid I would start looking for a replacement. It's not easy when you and your kids have adjusted to sharing your home with a particular person, but I think in the long run you be much better off.
It sounds to me like you are extremely fair employers who are prepared for a bit of give-and-take with your maid and who are willing to take her personal circumstances into consideration. What you need is someone who really appreciates that, and is happy to work hard for employers she likes and respects. What you have is someone who is taking the xxxx.
She's obviously not committed to the job or professional in her approach to tasks. In the short term, I would try putting in writing exactly what you expect of her, but in the long term, I would prepare to find someone else. Best of luck!
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It is important in the beginning to set out exact rules as to what you expect from a helper. This includes duties around the house usually on a timetable basis i.e. wash bathroom tiles every wednesday. With minding your child you have to very clear that there will be no tolerance as to what is expected.
As for the helper now. No question; she has to go !!! The sad thing is that it will only you that will learn from this experience.
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Sack her straight away. Her having a kid in HK sounds strange too. And a whole load of relatives giving her advice on how to shaft you ? Get ready for sullen Filipino behaviour, demands for money etc. Don't give in. Give her notice in writing citing reasons for summary dismissal. March her to door by the scruff of her neck and change all locks immediately. Send copy of letter of dismissal to immigration department. this is important. reason for termination is loss of confidence. she'll have to leave hk, if she's under normal immigration terms as a maid. but don't take any prisoners! good luck.
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"Welcome to the hell that all expats go through by trying to 'look after' their helpers. Give them an inch & most will take a mile - and will NEVER appreciate what ou ahve done."
While it is true that some helpers take advantage, it is also true that there are others who do not. In many cases bad experiences are due to bad management on the part of employers. I'm sorry to hear you have had bad experiences but quite frankly if that's the way you treat your helpers no wonder.
"Do not let them take time off when they should be working and pay them minimum wage. if you want to pay more then make it a monthly 'bonus' so when they do the wrong thing you remind them by paying minimum."
Paying minimum wage is a sure way of ensuring the helper will make a minimum effort. If you give them trust, respect, and a decent wage most helpers will respond with hard work and dedication. If they don't, then absolutely take measures. But just going ultra-control and minimum wage will not get you very good results.
"Expats get silly. I have an Australian friend who goes for a long walk daily to give her helper 'some space'. The helper cooks then goes to bed, does not make breakfast for the family of four as she is asleep. It is pathetic & they laugh at you....."
I will agree that this is silly. I'm all for respect but she is hired to do a job.
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Sorry axptguy, but I have to disagree. I pay my helper minimum wage and couldn't be happier with her. She works hard and in return we respect her and treat her like part of the family. This year (she's only been with us 9 months) we gave her 4 weeks off for summer vacation to go back home and spend time with family. Every now and then I give her a bonus. She's appreciative of all we do for her but mininmum wage does NOT mean minimum effort. Part of the problem in finding a good helper these days is that xpats throw money at them and pay well above the minimum wage and then when they need to find a new employer they expect the world and then some. Not all xpats here in HK can afford to pay above the minimum wage.
Andy_HK I would get rid of your helper ASAP. Having a shower is one thing but falling asleep is a different ball game. Would you be so forgiving if something had happened to your child? I think not!
I may seem cold but I never understand why people are so willing to overlook situations when helpers are clearly either not doing their job properly or taking advantage of kind employers. If you owned a business you wouldn't let employees get away with half the stuff they can get away with as helpers. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone mistreating or overworking helpers in any way whatsoever but they need to work for their wage and abide by your set out rules. At the end of the day they are employees.
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hkjazz, I was unclear perhaps. It seems you are treating your helper respectfully and giving her some good perks. That will compensate for the minimum wage. The important factors are trust and respect. A helper (or any employee) who is trusted and respected will typically perform well. Most people crave trust and respect more than money. Money is a rough measure of trust and respect but not a replacement for the real thing.
I think we basically agree on this point but are just formulating it differently. However I do think that if one can, one should pay more than minimum wage. Having said that, if you cannot, a good helper will accept this as long as you are a good employer. It is one thing not to be able to pay more than minimum. It is another to easily manage this and still not do it.
"Part of the problem in finding a good helper these days is that xpats throw money at them and pay well above the minimum wage and then when they need to find a new employer they expect the world and then some. Not all xpats here in HK can afford to pay above the minimum wage."
It's not personal. That's just the market. Same with any employment market. There will be higher paying employers that lower paying employers have to compete with. This is not "throwing money at them". Just like any good employees, good helpers can command a higher salary.
"I may seem cold but I never understand why people are so willing to overlook situations when helpers are clearly either not doing their job properly or taking advantage of kind employers. If you owned a business you wouldn't let employees get away with half the stuff they can get away with as helpers. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone mistreating or overworking helpers in any way whatsoever but they need to work for their wage and abide by your set out rules. At the end of the day they are employees."
I agree with this 100%.
However, many employers treat helpers like slaves and still expect to be treated as employers. That is just as weird.
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Andy_HK,
I just want to ask, what are you trying to insinuate by this :- "Our maid (filipino)" ?
Are you saying that all filipino domestic helpers are slackers? There are a lot of domestic helpers in HK, and yes the majority of them are Filipinos but let's not forget the ones from Indonesia, Sri Lanka, etc. NOT ALL Filipino helpers like to nap, while their employers are out! I have had the same (and yes she is Filipino) helper for the last 7 years and she is nothing like the one you have. She is appreciative, respectful, hardworking and genuinely care for us and our children. So do her other friends who are also working as helpers. Never ever generalise, it's not fair.
Another question I have for you is, if you have caught her a FEW times not looking after your child when she should've been, what is she doing still working for you?!
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:/ nothing much to say. Glad axptguy is here :D
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cc77
16 yrs ago
"Over the last 11 years here in HKG I have employed Filipino, Indonesian, and Sri Lankan maids, so I think I have a rough overview of these different nationalities. I might also add that every filipino maid that we have ever employed have actually been ( you said it - Slackers!), so its not generalisation AT ALL for us its just our experience has been unpleasant. "
Having said that, I must ask, How many of them had their contract finished? You said that EVERY filipino maid you employed was a slacker, then you probably had 2 or 3 filipino maids, am I right? not to mention the other 2 nationalities.
You are generous and kind enough to your helper, as you said you provide a comfortable room, etc., etc., thats why I keep on wondering why those helpers treated you that way. (really curious)
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i agree with dadda. i have had 2 filipina maids and they were both taking me for a ride. give an inch, lose a mile....same story everytime.
have sworn off maids. rather be tired and happy than have big headaches that come with maids. If anyone has a good story about maids, do write me. i believe the bad stories outnumber the good. Sorry if i sound biased. That's probably because I am suffering loss for my mistake of hiring a maid.
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my 2cents:
some expats in hk never had the oppurtunity to hire helpers in their home country. they have zero to none ideas about thow to manage their helpers and they do the most common things that epxtas do. they hire someone who has been here for over 5 years. they do that for the experience that the maids has. theres nothing wrong with that as its the most perfectly logical thing to do, BUT coz of the experience of these maids they tend to get paid above minimum and wont even dare think of reciveing minimum wage.
another thing is that first time employers often take employee management for granted seeing that the maid have been here for say 10yrs.. she obviously knows what to do right? but then again as soon as she sees that her boss leaves her alone, the good maid will do a good job, the "bad" ones will take advantage seeing the employer's supposed ignorance to the employer-helper dynamics.
and its not about nationality either. everybody does that regardless of where they come from.
so my advice is first employers are better of with maids who have been here for less than 5 years. at least the maids form that bracket are less inclined to fool around and run circles around their bosses.
anyway i am speaking in general terms.... so dont shoot me down.
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Good story here too:
Our helper is fantastic. She works hard, she is always cheerful, she is great with the kids. She is a great cook. She is trustworthy and never forgets anything she needs to do. She has long experience in child rearing which we are happy to tap into. She can joke and chat but she is aware that she is an employee. She always asks permission for things that are outside the normal boundaries (such as using our kitchen to cook for her friends).
We treat her as an adult and give her very wide leeway to use her initiative. If she is unsure, she asks if she can or she makes a decision. She knows that we won't be mad if she makes a call and it's the wrong one (this almost never happens btw). Otherwise she runs things. We talk frequently (several times daily) about the kids and the house so we are on the same page. We are happy to leave things to her. She is happy that she can take charge without someone looking over her shoulder.
The key thing here is that she is RESPONSIBLE. It is her job to make sure things work. She won't get it right 100% of the time but at least she stands or falls on her own merits. This is much more fulfilling, and leads to better performance, than having the employer hanging over her shoulder telling her how to do every single thing (I've seen it happen).
Good employer leads to good helper in the majority of cases. Don't micromanage. I hear of employers following their helpers around, directing their every more, etc... Do you really need to tell her how to clean as long as it is clean? Not really. Get out of the way and let her do her job unless things aren't going quite right.
"Every single employer (in any trade/business) I' ve met in my whole life, who has complained that "these days it's impossible to find good employees", hasn't been that great employer him/herself either...."
Well said! Very very well said! Have you noticed how the good bosses always seem to have the "easy teams to manage". Mhm. And that just magically happened...
"another thing is that first time employers often take employee management for granted seeing that the maid have been here for say 10yrs.. she obviously knows what to do right? but then again as soon as she sees that her boss leaves her alone, the good maid will do a good job, the "bad" ones will take advantage seeing the employer's supposed ignorance to the employer-helper dynamics"
Indeed. There is no substitute for good management. You can't expect the helper to read your mind.
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Get a new maid. Cant be trusted, and get one that doesnt have kids.
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"get one that doesnt have kids."
Why shouldn't she have kids?
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excuse me nicolemiyazaki but I think there's a lil bit discrimination with your post beside have you read the good stories above before posting?! Throwing your pessimism to filipino maids is not nice. Filipino maid market is going down not because were displaying bad attitude but other country maid market are now open so there is a balance and filipino applicants are targeting Canada instead of HK nowadays..Although filipino maid are more aware of their rights and more vocal with their thoughts, we have good attidudes as those maids from other countries as well plus we can do english tutoring.
"So Hong Kong government should change their rule and regulations to control the maid. For employers site eventhough we have try to find good attitude and obedient one end up most of the maid gave trouble in many ways. "
Hongkong goverment and immigration are doing enough job to balance rights between employers and domestic helper. If one have a higher benefit then that goes to the employers. At least knew the laws and regulations first before suggesting such...
Indonesian maids more likely are victims of abuses and are being underpaid, for your information nicolemiyazaki. So Im wondering why societies don't help them as well. Is this the scenario that you want?
There are some maids who cant be trusted. They can be Filipinas, Idonesians, Thais etc. we're not counting in here but lot of us also are doing great jobs.
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From what you wrote, I think that without a doubt your maid is taking advantage of you. Yet, you are also responsible for this, as you let standards slide, condone her behavior and even do her work for her. In such a case, of course she would take advantage of you, irrespective of her nationality. You are really both at fault.
Even more alarming is that her poor attitude in respect of domestic duties extends to the care of your children. I assume your children are young enough that they still need constant supervision. In such a case, her showers (no matter how short), naps while your children are in her care are taboo.
FYI, my helper takes care of my baby while we are at work. We set out clearly in the beginning what from her and as a result, she does all that we ask her AND some things that she feels she should do. This will include daily: - cooking breakfast, lunch and dinner for us, washing floor and clothes (by hand because she wants to make sure the clothes are really clean and wants to save us $ - her idea, not ours), dusting, mopping, and vacuuming. While doing all this, she also makes sure my baby is well-fed, happy and gets plenty of interactive play time. She would never think of leaving the baby unattended or in a dangerous situation, because she will feel upset whenever the inevitable falls, scratches happen. Though she hasn’t said so expressly, I know that my helper keeps the door open if she has to use the bathroom and there is no one else to care for my child.
She does all this because she knows it is important to us, because she wants to do well at her job, because she takes pride in keeping a well-run household and because she likes being a part of our family and she loves my baby a lot. This is her mindset. As for us, we let her know that we appreciate her hard work, and treat her with respect. And we don’t pay her that much more than minimum wage.
So, I think it is matter of attitude and setting standards, which should have been done in the beginning.
If you don’t let her go immediately, I think you have to give her a strict warning with specific instructions on what your want and a deadline for compliance.
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another point:
i use to fall asleep a lot while minding my 3 yr old ward during the afternoon bu the thing is he was always asleep and seeing his mum doesnt come till 12md at the earliest.. needless to say i was tired... so id catch some shut eye to have energy for when his sister would home from school and well play games and get dinner done (kids have to eat dinner at 5pm) shower and home work.. then put them to bed..
its all a matter of being responsible i guess.. i always had my alarm set.. make sure stuff i need for dinner are ready..
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let's not forget about the employers who take advantage of their helpers, most of the posts regagrding this subject are making it out as if all helpers are out to take advantage of employers....what about employers who make their helpers sleep on the kitchen floor/ bath tub? make them work 6 1/2 days a week? underpay them and also expect them to pay for their own food? i have heard a lot of horrible stories first hand...and the sad thing is that most employers who treat their helpers badly get away with it, hmmm funny that....i have also met a lot of 'superior race' type expats who have never had helpers before - especially where they came from and then they come a to a place like hk, hire a helper and expect to be treated as if the sun shines out of their arses!
what im trying to say is, not all helpers are bad, and not all employers are good either. you get a helper that is good, responsible, hard working, respectful etc- then you hold on to him/her and make sure you treat her well and make her feel like she is not just a toilet scrubber but also part of your family. if you think you are being taken for a ride then make sure you let your domestic helper know that you are not happy about it!
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i had a good helper don't get me wrong. She was perfect till she resigned and then injured herself on the same day. then all hell broke loose. she stabbed me in the back, betrayed my trust and lied about resigning! went on to report me to the labour tribunal and claimed i had sacked her while she was on medical leave!
thankfully i won that case. still it's a bad experience. had her for 5 months. she had me in court for 8! who among you thinks that is fair!
i treated her too good! gave her the phone to use and she talks all night! had her prepare nutrition drinks for my son and she drank from that too! gave her a room of her own with a bath attached! yes she was good till she decided that she should seek out greener pastures in canada and terminate the contract after 5 months!
i say never trust them and always keep a close eye on them. don't get too close cos they will betray you.
they are not family!
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"i treated her too good! gave her the phone to use and she talks all night! had her prepare nutrition drinks for my son and she drank from that too! gave her a room of her own with a bath attached! yes she was good till she decided that she should seek out greener pastures in canada and terminate the contract after 5 months!"
I'm sorry, you gave her her own room with a bath? That's like the the minimum you need to offer anyway!
As for the rest, that's not "giving too much". Did you explain to her that she shouldn't talk all night? Did you tell her the drinks were for your son? If she still did these things you say, then yes, she was a bad apple. But that does not make your decisions to be generous bad.
"i say never trust them and always keep a close eye on them. don't get too close cos they will betray you.
they are not family!"
They are not all like that. You are just setting yourself up to be "betrayed" again by not trusting. A new helper shouldn't suffer because an old one was a bad apple.
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"i say never trust them and always keep a close eye on them. don't get too close cos they will betray you.
they are not family!"
so what, you're supposed to treat each and every one of them as if they're going to steal from you all the time?! grow up! learn from your last experience and make sure it doesn't happen again! like axptguy38 said, others shouldn't suffer because of the action of ONE individual. DO NOT GENERALISE!!!!! IT"S AS BAD AS SAYING AL CHINESE PEOPLE ARE RACIST. think about that one.
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Hi Andy_HK
If you hired the helper via an employment agency, you are entitled to change another one if you are not happy with her performance.
If you did not go via an agency, you should still replace her with another helper as is obviously not "helping" you and doing her job. Either ways, she was contracted to do a certain job, and if she is not doing them, then time to replace her.
More importantly, she has left the children unattended, which in my opinion is a non-negotiable thing. It only takes a few seconds for a situation to go terribly wrong with an unattended child.
REPLACE THE HELPER! And keep replacing until you find one that you are happy with. It is all a part of the process of finding the ideal helper for your family's needs.
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mdap
16 yrs ago
She is living the domestic helper's dream - find a soft foreign couple (or single guy) who probably have never had staff before and take them for a ride! Yes you are nice - too nice. She is taking you for a ride and putting your child's life at risk - FIRE HER - TONIGHT!
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Absolutely not normal and not acceptable!!! Get rid of her; there is plenty of good hard-working helpers out there who might appreicatre more your generosity.
Good luck,
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mdap
16 yrs ago
and Island Hopper - you're totally right - plenty of maids come here to work, to send money home, to be loyal, honest, trustworthy and respectful. All the same attributes we apply ourselves to our employers or employees. Taking 30 minute showers and leaving a child alone is negligent and this maid should be fired as she is ruining it for those who come to work.
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RLR
16 yrs ago
Hi Andy
Read your post with interest.
These are your babies! Never to be left unattended - never! If anyone was to take 30 min shower and fall asleep in any other job they would probably have a warning if not automatic dismissal. So why are you questionning your instinct here? I think you want to see the best in people - i understand that but these are your children and you are their ambassador - give them the best quality of care you can find. Good Luck.
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jcmum
16 yrs ago
Hi Andy.
You made the right decision to get rid of her. Never ever pay above the market price!! Let she works for you for at least 2 years with standard pay. With 2 little ones, you might want to consider full time maid that lives in your home ... you might be better off with this type. But it's difficult to find a good one these days, so insists on trial before signing anything.
Good luck.
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In case you are feeling guilty - we had the exact same situation a 2 years ago when we first moved to Hong Kong. I came home unexpectadley and found our helper asleep in her room while my two year old was wandering around the apartment. We gave her a warning. Two weeks later our family went away for the weekend. When we returned on the sunday night we found all our beer exploded in the freezer (she had had a little get together and used our alcohol). Another warning. Two weeks later she was in her door with the door shut while our two children were playing in their room. When I questioned her she started bawling and said "I'm sorry - give me another chance". We fired her that night and have never looked back. Our helper now is fantastic and we couldn't be happier. AFter she left we realised that she had been using our computer and loads of other things. I felt so guilty for a few months then found out htat she had badmouthed us all over the playground saying "we mistreated her e.t.c". WE were so kind to her and it just didn't work out. YOU MADE THE RIGHT DECISION.
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God, it's tough in Hong Kong.... People have time to stress about their domestic help who get paid 100$ per day.
I love the start of this thread "So relaxed".. but she has to work from 650am to 6pm and get "above the minimum" of 100$ a day. Very generous indeed.
Still the best quote here has got to be below. I can only hope people like him lose their jobs in current climate and go back to wherever. I'm 100% sure he would not talk like that in Oz/UK etc. Gives expats a bad name. My guess is it has to be a joke.
"Posted by dadda (8 days ago)
[ Message | Report Abuse ]
Welcome to the hell that all expats go through by trying to 'look after' their helpers. Give them an inch & most will take a mile - and will NEVER appreciate what ou ahve done.
Sack her immediately & get a new one. Do not let them take time off when they should be working and pay them minimum wage. if you want to pay more then make it a monthly 'bonus' so when they do the wrong thing you remind them by paying minimum.
I reiterate - get rid of her. She obviously does not care about your child, and if she starts to resent looking after her, she could take it out on the child.
Expats get silly. I have an Australian friend who goes for a long walk daily to give her helper 'some space'. The helper cooks then goes to bed, does not make breakfast for the family of four as she is asleep. It is pathetic & they laugh at you.....
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edelg
16 yrs ago
The whole helper culture in HK, really a polite word for MAID, is absolutely wrong. There is nothing wrong with having to have a childminder while working but someone to walk your dog, do your laundry, clean up your mess is very wrong. Every capable adult should be doing his/her housework, nevermind walking his/her dog. HK is without doubt a messed up society where such emphasis is put on material wealth and working stupidly long hours that there is no work life balance. Maids are employed to try and address this problem. More often than not they are educted women from countries where they would probably only earn a fraction of what they earn in HK so they leave to make better money. While there is a demand in HK for these maids these women will continue to take up these demeaning, underpaid posts for people that have no problem with the idea of a live in slave. I don't blame these women for slacking of on their jobs, who could blame them when the terms and conditions they work under are sub standard. HK needs to wake up to employee rights all across the board.
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"The whole helper culture in HK, really a polite word for MAID, is absolutely wrong. There is nothing wrong with having to have a childminder while working but someone to walk your dog, do your laundry, clean up your mess is very wrong. Every capable adult should be doing his/her housework, nevermind walking his/her dog."
If you treat her with dignity and pay her a fair wage, what is wrong with having a maid?
"HK is without doubt a messed up society where such emphasis is put on material wealth and working stupidly long hours that there is no work life balance. Maids are employed to try and address this problem"
In our case, we have a DH mostly so that a) we know our kids are well taken care of when we cannot be home and b) we can spend more "quality time" with our children. What is wrong with that?
Also, I have found that, despite the hype, the hours in HK are no different than the hours in New York or London.
"More often than not they are educted women from countries where they would probably only earn a fraction of what they earn in HK so they leave to make better money."
So you're saying that it is a bad thing they can take a job that makes them much more money?
"While there is a demand in HK for these maids these women will continue to take up these demeaning, underpaid posts for people that have no problem with the idea of a live in slave."
While there are certainly many who abuse their helpers, don't think everyone is like that. If being a DH were such a horrible thing, you wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of women doing it.
"I don't blame these women for slacking of on their jobs, who could blame them when the terms and conditions they work under are sub standard."
Slacking off is not excusable. If a DH cannot stand her working conditions, she is free to quit.
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maxis
16 yrs ago
As an educated professional person be prepared to take a job which required no use of my professional skills but paid me 6 or more times more money?
It'd be tempting......
I wouldn't like it, but yeah sure I'd clean some rich guy's toilet in Dubai for 6 times my professional salary, I guess......
......and sure, for that kind of benefit I'd pobably allow myself to be degraded and do extra things not in my contract, and let the rich guy take advantage of me a bit - well a lot more than I'd put up withn it in my own country, that's for sure!
the point is, the market exists here, that's for sure. And don't forget 500USD/month is a hell of a lot of money for a non-formally educated or trained young lady from a rural area of the countries these people come from, they can do a lot with that amount of money if managed right.
So, the market exists, the girls are here like it or not, so you just have to treat them right and not abuse the new power you have if you are an Xpat. And if you are a local and the power is not new to you, then you have to assess whether your conduct is how you'd like one of your daughters to be treated if she when abroad to work as am "Xpat" in a foreign country.
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Have to agree with Cheesypeasplease and edelg people seem to loose all touch with reality when they come to HK.
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"Have to agree with Cheesypeasplease and edelg people seem to loose all touch with reality when they come to HK."
Some certainly do. But hardly all. And one has to wonder about the nature of "reality". All the stuff discussed is "real" in HK. Perhaps a more accurate expression would be "lose touch with decent behavior".
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Maybe so axptguy but is that not just nit picking? you do after all know exactly what i mean...
Of course not all but many do expect far too much from there helper, i see it every day around me and read perfect examples on this forum of spoilt, selfish people who think there helper is nothing more than an object that hey own to do with as they wish. We seem to think that 10 and 12 hour plus days is perfectly acceptable plus babysitting when required. there is no thought at all to the fact that it is a job and that helpers should be afforded free time to relax and enjoy life the same way we want too we convince ourselves they want to work 14 hours a day as they are bored. This is a very sad reflection on us all as people
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Agree with axptguy38 - it's your behaviour that counts, not whether or not live-in domestic help is affordable.
Also, isn't "domestic helper" interchangeable with "maid" - since when did "maid" become so unacceptable that we need a "polite term" for it?
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"Maybe so axptguy but is that not just nit picking? you do after all know exactly what i mean..."
Fair enough. And I do agree that many people go off the deep end.
"Of course not all but many do expect far too much from there helper"
Also true. What amazes me is that few people make a realistic work schedule ahead of hiring a helper. This might give them some idea of the amount of work they are asking for. Our helper works hard but there are certainly many household tasks that we do as well. She would never have the time to do "everything" withing a reasonable amount of time.
Another thing: If your helper has worked especially long hours for a few days for some reason, why not give her some extra money on payday? She deserves it.
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To Maxis
Would you pay your secretary the equivalent of what she would earn in Sri Lanka if she was from there? We have plenty of Filipino journalists in my company and I am sure they are paid HK market rates. I do not imagine during their appraisal their manager will say "well, in the Philippines this is triple what you would get, so you should be happy".
Time and time again people use this feeble excuse to justify very low wages or conditions. FDH live in Hong Kong and what the salary equivalent back at their birth country, has absolutely nothing to do with their salaries here. Imagine if that rationale was employed in HK, most the people reading this post (expats), would not be here as they are captilising on opportunities overseas.
PS- I am the biggest fan of someone else cleaning up after me... as most are, but I appreciate and respect that person.
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Out of curiousity; who is paying their helpers the same as they would earn in the Phils? Moreover, who is coming from the Phils to earn what they would earn at home? I think the whole point being made by Maxis, amongst others, is that they only come here because of the fact that the earn 10 times (or 6 times in the illustration) the equivalent salary in the Philippines, otherwise they would not be leaving their families behind. That is why they do jobs for which many are overqualified. There is no way that anybody would be enduring much of this hardship for the money that they could make in their local village. So even if unscrupulous employers tried to get away with paying their 'home' salary, they would not get away with it.
Incidentally, plenty of companies out here pay local packages to expats; some of us are here for the experience rather than the cash.
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maxis
16 yrs ago
Cheesy-pea,
re-read my post and then yours
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There are good ones out there, available to deserving employers. Let me know if you need help... :)
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thank you MUM of 2 for your post! do people really &^%$ think people who work here as helpers would come here, scrub somebody's toilet, and be away from their children, partners, parents, etc? for years?! I just noticed MACZULU's post too, and I quote:
"And a whole load of relatives giving her advice on how to shaft you ? Get ready for sullen Filipino behaviour, demands for money etc. Don't give in".
Oh yeah, so Filipinos are a BUNCH OF CONS right?! And the Brits? The Yanks? The Chinese? Everybody else?! No?! So you're saying everyone else is pure and can do no wrong?! How very narrow minded of you. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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know
16 yrs ago
Interesting to read all these stories and discussions but the bottom line is you are talking about leaving your children in the care of somebody who thinks it's okay to sleep when they have been trusted to look after your most precious things- what?!! I would not get through the day knowing my child's minder (whoever it was- my mother, my helper, my best friend) was asleep when they were looking after my baby- and who knows what else they may/may not be doing when you are not there?
I can't believe you're even asking the question as to what to do- there is only one answer if you put your children first.....
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RPT1
16 yrs ago
if you have not already done it, fire her. plain and simple........what would happen if your unattended child had come to harm whilst she was resting her eyes!??????????????-
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I think it should be viewed as "Nothing Personal It's Just Business"
If a person is hired to do something, they should deliver. Nothing more Nothing Less...
Nothing to do with nationality nor treatments... every nationality has the bads and the goods..
your just unlucky.. replace and try again. ;)
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going back to the topic. agree give her a warning. a WRITTEN warning, and let her acknowledge it, and give her a copy. so there's no surprises in the end if you decide to let her go. there are some who resort to making up stories about their employer's treatment to them.
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Well the issue is very simple. An honest day's wages for an honest day's work. The 2 legal Philipinos I have tried out were a total disaster. Both have legal status in HK thanks to "kind" Western boyfriends of friends of friends years ago. That's what they both said.
The first one could frequently be found doing the "linternet dating, love on line" thing at our local library. My neighbours saw her whenever they went to return books their children had borrowed. The 2nd one left to get married. she met her husband at some wanchai bar on one of the 2 nights that I let her off. Imagine my surprise to find some of my things were missing after she left. Presumably gone with the wind.
A long conversation with various other expats have made think differently about DHs. I am interviewing some Thais and Indonesians and I must say, I have been impressed by what I have seen so far. References that could checked thoroughly, good cooking skills and they didn't come to the interview wearing anything inappropriate either.
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Get rid of her! This is not a case of a maid having a sleep and not cleaning the house well this is YOUR CHILD we`re talking about. What would you do if it happened again and your child was hurt or worse? Could you forgive yourself? No matter what you did to this woman it would repair the damage. There are many many excellent maids who will treat your child as if it was their own. This woman obviously doesn`t care. Think carefully but if it was me in your position I know that I would have acted on the spot.
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If I were in your situation,I will only have 1 sentence to say to her. "You are FIRED!!!"
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She is extremely taking advantage from you . she is not a helper anymore .she is just a worm. Get a new one! You should have breief new one what is your expactation and make a guideline what she should do in a day. otherwise they don't do anything.Good luck
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Totty
16 yrs ago
Why aren't these maids showering BEFORE starting work?
Imagine if we went to work and popped out for a shower during the day......na ah!
Our helper lives in, showers before she starts and is a doll! Loves, nurtures and cares for my kids like their her own and i have a hard time making her leave in the evenings. People take helpers for granted and treat them like something on the bottom of the shoe. I have friends that are blantently rude to theirs in front of their children so the children have no respect for her either.
People need to seriously consider how diffferent, and restricted, their life would be without these people that are helpers.
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Andy_Hk how about an update? Did you fire her or warning or nothing? We need to have closure.
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possumemi your comment "she is not a helper anymore .she is just a worm"
is disgraceful and unwarranted.
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Bellina...sorry for my rambling only I am too busy to read through all the posts especially as they were well off the original subject.. Maybe you can tell me what happened?
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"Another thing: If your helper has worked especially long hours for a few days for some reason, why not give her some extra money on payday? She deserves it."
This can back-fire!!
I tried that and the helper then wanted extra money every month, starting 'stringing out' her work (like ironng super-slow) so as to pretend she was working especially long hours in order to justify her hinted demands for more cash. When I refused to pay up she turned very hostile and I was obliged to terminate her contract and was left without a DH for quite a while before I could have a new one start ...
Some of these ideas are nice in theory but if you actually do them you can get seriously burned.
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I find this whole debate to be futile and childish.
HK as a society needs to take responsibility for nurturing and taking care of their children and their household. Unfortunately, HK familes feel they need to employ a helper ' to keep up with the Jones' and be fashionable. I suggest that about 33% of HK families ( local people) employ a helper, even though only one parent works. In many cases there is no need to employ a helper.
Expats who move to HK, then follow local customs and are needlessly drawn into this vortex of employing Helpers, when it is unnecessary.
How many times have parents fallen asleep whilst nursing their children ? Or have been sleeping long after their children wake up in the morning ? But of course the parents are beyond reproach but the Helper is pilloried for the same behaviour.
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can't help commenting. Do you fall asleep while you are working in your office?! Obviously you don't have children so you don't understand why parents in HK need a helper, doesn't matter they are locals or expats. However, I don't think your view is relevant to the issue. I think this helper should go, she's abusing her employer's trust and generosity, takes everything or granted. She's not a responsible person for sure. I don't think we should expect the helper to be the same as our parents, but they at least should carry out their duties.
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Dear the person who posted the original 'issue'. Words like 'bone idol', spring to mind, you that is, not the maid. if you dont like the situation fire her & do the work yourself instread of complaining about under paid, exploited people who due to economic conditions have little option other than to work for the likes of people who come to HK & suddenly think they are some kind of privilaged 'royal family' elite. get real, keep it real, one day you may have to go home, hope you kept the instructions of how to use the washing machine, dishwasher, iron etc etc. filipant, but possibly some truth in that. btw I dont want to start a debate on the whole subject of home helpers./ just replying on the original issue.
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ok, I'll bite as you clearly want a fight. I presume that you are saying that the OP is bone 'IDLE' (not someone who is worshipped by bones). If the OP is to be believed, they set reasonable expectations and the helper has decent work conditions. The employers also do their share, so hardly 'bone idol' as you say.
If this was a store employee who fell asleep 'on the job', would you give the same unconstructive advice?
I'm sure the helpers that depend on their wages here to pay off their mortgages, feed their children etc will be thrilled with you for advocating that they should not be employed here. There are plenty of helpers out there who are happy to work here in HK and whose familes would be a whole lot much worse off if everyone took your advice. Our first helper breasfed her child for 3 years because she could not afford to buy milk for him. When she worked for me, she earned 10 times what her husband was earning back home. I'm guessing that she would cringe if she read your advice.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having help if they are treated well but it works both ways. Viewing helpers as:
'under paid, exploited people who due to economic conditions have little option other than to work for the likes of people who come to HK & suddenly think they are some kind of privilaged 'royal family' elite'
is condescending and unconstructive. Decent helpers want respect not pity, and they in return do a decent job.
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Get read of her now, wirte your letter to immigration stating the reasons, and wathc her pack her bag or even better ask your husband to do so the moment you give her the letter. Not one day or two after. Or you will find things missing that she wanted to keep as a "souvenir". It is a cultural gap there, and we westeners get upset at situations we did not handle the appropriate way with filipinos.
I fired a helper years ago who was running the hot water only in the bath tub, had something on the stove, and when I walked in my 2 years old was standing up on a chair on the balcony. It took all that much for me to realize things were going plain wrong. She then tried to sue us at immigration saying we were treating her "like small potatoe". The immigration officers did not buy it and confirmed she was fired and i hsould not even have given her any money at all. Good luck, and please do not wait for an accident to happen. They are plenty of good helpers in great need of a job here!
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randd
16 yrs ago
You can't keep someone to watch your children if you can't trust her.
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dont miss judge all filipino helper,dont you know that 90 percent of them are educated they just came here as a domestic helper bec.they want to earn better salary even they knew that being a helper is so difficult and its not really related to their education.dont discriminate them,to andy its a good decision that you fired her,but to all the commentor try to analized what you are commenting first before you post it if it is relevant to the issue or not.
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I'm in a very similar situation right now. I came home early w/o calling & found my helper in the shower, with my 2 year old left unattended in the house. I sat with my daughter for over 20 minutes, just waiting to see how long she would leave the baby alone, before I was so angry about the situation that I went back to see where she was. I found her resting in her room, getting dressed after her shower. I certainly don't mind if she showers during the day, but I had specifically told her before that she was not to do so while my daughter was awake & they were alone.
There was a history of her acting negligently with regard to my daughter, and this was the final straw so I terminated her contract on the spot. As others have said, you just can't be too careful with your kids.
Anyway, now we're in the midst of a huge Labour Tribunal mess with she said/ she said...Does anyone now how things go with a my-word-against-yours sort of situation? How can I prove she was being negligent if therwa was no one else home?
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i say don't give out a warning ................just yet.
gather evidence, photos, video, nannycam - have witnesses before giving out written warnings. make sure she acknowledges those warnings
but i guess as this post is over 90 days old - a lot of things could have had happen by then
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tt930
16 yrs ago
I can offer a simple solution and this will eliminate all possible potential problems arise from your domestic worker. Whether you want to replace her is a decision lies upon you. I wud setup 2-3 cams in the house, and make sure your nanny knows that she will be monitor when u are away, and the setup is very simple, by letting her know is not consider spying on her either. Don't forget, as a parent you have an unconditional responsibility to your child, I would do anything to ensure my child's safety, and well being.
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I feel that setting up cameras is intrusive and just shows the helper you do not trust her.
If you can trust your helper, you don't need cameras. If you can't trust her, and thus need cameras, that helper is not for you.
As for "eliminating all potential problems", I think not. It can actually create problems of surliness and bad performance. If the helper feels she is not trusted whatever she does, why should she make an extra effort to gain your trust?
"I wud setup 2-3 cams in the house, and make sure your nanny knows that she will be monitor when u are away, and the setup is very simple, by letting her know is not consider spying on her either"
It may not be spying since you let her know, but it clearly is monitoring.
"I would do anything to ensure my child's safety, and well being."
Sure, but I would rather have a helper with initiative that feels that she has my confidence than one who knows here every tiny mistake can be seen by me. I don't need an employee who lives in fear of retribution.
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Hello,
I haven't read all the comments.
What an unpleasant discovery you had !
I would definitively give her a written warning, sit down with her and make her understand that either she changes this or you're not going to continue to hire her.
You can observe her attitude when you talk to her (best with your husband), it'll tell you a lot if she's willing to change or not.
After that, you have to make a few "surprise" visits during the day and see how it goes.
However, I think that once the trust is lost it's very difficult to get it back...
Good luck !
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The best thing for you to do is not hire a helper,just do all the work by yourself. so you could attend to your kids,hiring a helper is so stressful having a complete stranger at home with your kids which you dont trust at all,is horrifying makes you crazy.fire her thats for the best.I know you could do all the household chores taking care of kids the easy way.
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"The best thing for you to do is not hire a helper,just do all the work by yourself. so you could attend to your kids,hiring a helper is so stressful having a complete stranger at home with your kids which you dont trust at all,is horrifying makes you crazy.fire her thats for the best.I know you could do all the household chores taking care of kids the easy way."
Well, that is one solution. But most people with helpers find it really boosts their quality of life. So there are advantages.
If your helper remains "a complete stranger" for very long things are not working out too well.
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Look after your own children......??
Whats the point of having them if you need someone else to raise them for you?
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"Look after your own children......??
Whats the point of having them if you need someone else to raise them for you?"
I don't think you understand how a helper is "supposed to work". She's not a replacement parent. She's a HELPer.
What if both parents work? What if the helper allows the parents to spend more time with the children? What if we have enough money to hire a helper and it makes life easier?
If the helper is "raising your kids" without much influence from you, you're doing something wrong, but this has little to do with time spent with them. Parents who are "absent" will be so whether they have a helper or not.
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