Employer duties

Hi,


Am pregnant with my first baby, and we are thinking of getting a helper for cleaning / laundry / babysitting etc after the baby arrives.


I am due in Spetember, so would really like someone to start in August to get a feel for us before it all goes crazy! So, some questions:


1) When should we start looking


2) Is it best to use an agency, or how else would you find a helper


3) While I am at home, I do not want someone there all day, every day- will she be happy to come and go as I require?


4) What is the average pay, and what else are we responsible for in terms of cost?


Thanks!

1) When should we start looking


About 13-14 weeks before the start date. Finding a helper is normally fast since the supply is plentiful. The red tape takes about 10-12 weeks. Note that good helpers are snatched up fast so don't dawdle if you have a good candidate.



2) Is it best to use an agency, or how else would you find a helper


Agency is a good idea the first time since (a good one) does all the paperwork for you. Referrals are great too, but you can still use an agency for the paperwork, going to immigration etc...



3) While I am at home, I do not want someone there all day, every day- will she be happy to come and go as I require?


Well, she has to live in, but of course you can tell her that you want privacy at certain times and you would like her to say in her room, in the kitchen. You can tell her that she may be outside the home at these times, but you cannot force her to be out of the home.


If you are not comfortable with her presence in your home, you don't have the right helper. Of course this doesn't mean she should be looking over your shoulder the whole time. ;)



4) What is the average pay, and what else are we responsible for in terms of cost?


Minimum wage is just about 3600/month, but I recommend paying much more for a good helper (you can always start low of course).


- You are responsible for food. This can be a) eating with the family, b) providing food or c) giving a monetary food allowance, typically 600-1000/month.

- You are responsible for a trip from home to HK at the beginning of each two year contract, and a trip home at the end of each contract. You can just pay money if the helper agrees.

- You must have helper insurance. This is about 1000 per two year contract.

- You need to pay for any medical tests you require before the candidate starts.

- You must provide furniture for the maid's room, bed, closet and perhaps a desk. I recommend spending a little extra time and money to make the room nice.

- You must pay for any expenses while working, for example transportation to and from errands, school pick-up and so forth.


The above are all things you have to do, but it is well worth offering some perks if you want a happy employee. These of course cost money.

- Yearly bonus.

- TV/computer/DVD player.

- Extra trip home for annual leave.

- etc etc...

Some further comments to complicate matters for you (!):


1. Many organised helpers start looking for jobs 2 to 3 months before the end of their contracts to maximise the chances of finding a suitable employer. The result is that you may end up waiting for one of these helpers to come out of contract.


2. In addition to using an agency you can find a helper by word of mouth/firend recommendations, dollar saver ads or supermarket notices. It can be very frustrating setting up interviews on a Sunday only to find 1/2 the helpers don't show. The benefit of agency interviews is that you get to interview all the helpers the agency has selected for you plus any walk-ins. In my view much less time-wasting involved and helpers are less likley to back out because they don't wan tto get the agency off-side.


3. A helper who is given lots of time off at the start of a contract may well become used to those hours and resent being asked to do more later on. Some helpers with a lot of time on their hands get part-time jobs to earn extra money in their down time. So address these matters in the interview. Also, right from the start make the timetable unpredicatable so the helper does not get used to having set times off (unless this also suits you).


4. At the start of the contract it is almost impossible to know if your helper is "worth" more than minimum. The conventional wisdom is to start with the minimum and offer bonuses and raises as incentives. Always ask about previous salary and job duties. A helper on more than minimum wage will be reluctant to accept less even if the job is easier (effectively part-time in your case).


5. Only one of my previous helpers cared about the aesthetics of her bedroom. Although we have a nice room my feeling is that most helpers are not, on the whole, houseproud and, as long as their room is clean and functional, it will be fine.

"1. Many organised helpers start looking for jobs 2 to 3 months before the end of their contracts to maximise the chances of finding a suitable employer. The result is that you may end up waiting for one of these helpers to come out of contract."


Good point. You can of course just ignore those helpers that don't fit your schedule. There are plenty of fish in the sea.



"The benefit of agency interviews is that you get to interview all the helpers the agency has selected for you plus any walk-ins. In my view much less time-wasting involved and helpers are less likley to back out because they don't wan tto get the agency off-side."


Very good point. We interviewed ten candidates in just over an hour. Two were walk-ins and they were just as good as the ones we had read about before.



"Only one of my previous helpers cared about the aesthetics of her bedroom. Although we have a nice room my feeling is that most helpers are not, on the whole, houseproud and, as long as their room is clean and functional, it will be fine."


I think the important thing is to have made an effort. While it need not be fit for an interior decoration exposé, it helps if the helper feels you have put in a little time and money. A nice room tells the helper that you care for her well-being beyond "she is breathing and able to work". A happy employee who feels appreciated tends to be more productive.

JJALD, I'm sending you a pm.

"You can of course just ignore those helpers that don't fit your schedule. There are plenty of fish in the sea."


Yes, but not all those fish are going to be right for you!


Finding someone whose job expectations and personality fit with your own is harder than finding someone who happens to be looking for a new employer at the same time you are looking. Sometimes all the requirements fit neatly but more often they don't. Excluding those who aren't ready to start when you want could be very limiting - better to either wait for the one you want or sign someone earlier than you need, i think.


Another point about timing interviews with starting date:


Many expat families leave HK at the end of the school year (end June) so helpers working with these families start looking around in May, June, July. It may be worth interviewing in June as there could be a number of good helpers becoming available then.


You might be able to line up one of these helpers up to start work with you in August and allow the helper a month's (unpaid) holiday in July, between contracts.

Do pop into the Labour Department. They are nice, have some very informative leaflets outlining your legal duties as an employer.


It can be a little overwhelming, but does help remind you that at the end of the day you are an employer, and that you have legal responsibilities.


I have just settled at the Labour Tribunal. There were definitely things I would have done differently. If anyone would like details of the whole process, send me a PM, am happy to share.


I want to finish by saying that the majority of people I know have fantastic helpers and are very, very happy. They have no reason to check this board or leave a message. Thus, it does seem, when reading this board, as though the overwhelming majority have bad helper experiences when the complete opposite is true.

JJALD -


If you are going to be a stay home mum, and esp. if you can speak Chinese, I would suggest you get a PT cleaner, as the live-in will involve almost total loss of privacy. Even if you're going to work PT yourself, you might find a PT nanny and a PT cleaner a better option than a live-in helper (although that would be more expensive).


"the majority of people I know have fantastic helpers and are very, very happy"

This is certainly not my experience!! About half the people I know are reasonably satified with their helpers, about a quarter are dissatisfied and a quarter have fantastic helpers. Changing your helper can be very difficult, especially after the baby has arrived, and especially if you are working and don't want to lose your job, or if you have any kind of special situation where you really need a helper - which is why lots of people feel they can't terminate their DH even if she's not working well etc.


If you do get a live-in helper, but want some privacy, some ways of achieving this were discussed in a previous thread (I think it was "My children and my helper" on the parenting board). You could also openly discuss this at the interview stage. A helper with relatives in HK, or hobbies / friends, will probably be more willing to go out and give you a bit of space in the week. E.g. my helper's sister is married and has her own flat about 15 min from my home, so if I want the afternoon to myself I can just ask her if she fancies visiting her sister and the answer is always 'yes'! Some people's helpers are very involved with their church and go there during the week to organise activities. But the reality is that lots of employers tolerate the loss of privacy and it's a downside of having a helper. The good side is that you don't have to wash up!

"as the live-in will involve almost total loss of privacy. "


I agree there is some loss of privacy. But this depends on a lot of factors. Many helpers are very unintrusive, for example. Also many employers don't really care much about what others feel are very private things. An example is how some employers don't like the thought of a helper tidying up the underwear drawer, while others couldn't care less.


Personally, I don't notice the loss of privacy much. But perhaps that's just my personality. In the first few weeks I did think about it, but now I realize she has better things to do than "watching" what we do all the time.

same! My helper watches it when it's on the next day when it's on. I always have it on so she can watch it. GO JORGE!!

I know, I was devasted that Peurto Ricon who can only think in Spanish is gone!!!! No way on Adam, he is a little rich kid pushed by his parents. I also think he may have had work done on this pretty face. mmmm,,, who can i barrack for now, maybe the Anoop Dogg!!

But going back to the privacy issue, I think it is only fair to let the OP know what it will be like, since she asked ... Many helpers are unobtrusive, mine is, but I myself don't like to encourage her any further in that direction because I worry that she may feel lonely. Since the deal is, in my household, that she does the housework + cooking + laundry and I do the childcare, if I'm not careful she could spend the whole day not interacting with anyone at all. That's why I try to include her a bit more, even though of course I do have less privacy that way.

oh, if incase you're interested in hiring a filipina I'm afraid you still have to deal with agencies. Our gov't banned direct hiring. Shame on them, ops!!!


Yeah, Im a helper too and me, including lots of my friends, have this "mind your own business and I will mind mine" attitude.


For my case, I stayed with my employer for more than 5 years now. With that long period stay with them, they got too used with me that they can do their stuff even with my presence. Except bedroom businesses of course.