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Helper is pregnant...

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ORIGINAL POST
Posted by meiji 15 yrs ago
Need advice urgently.


1) Helper is married. She is pregnant by a bf in HK.

2) My helper is EXCELLENT and my kids love her.

3) contract is almost completed in 1 month. We never doubted that we would renew and that she would also renew without hesitation.


The news come very suddenly, and now we have to look for a new helper. However, she is wishing to stay in HK to give birth. She mentioned something about us helping her be a sponsor to allow her to stay ?

Anyone heard of this? Can she stay after her contract is completed with us to give birth ?


What other options do I have? The reason I cannot have her in the household anymore is because the other helper in our household is a relative of hers, and she doesn't know how to break the news to her family. She is considering not letting them know at all.


I have no idea what she wants to do, I just feel very sad for her. She has a very difficult road ahead of her. I cried when I heard the news, because I know we will miss her alot. She has been a pleasant, reliable, and very good helper. I am still trying to think what options we have.
 
 
ED's NOTE - The HK Labour Department on helper pregnancies has good information to guide you through this 


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COMMENTS
axptguy38 15 yrs ago
aussieinla, the employer IS responsible per HK law. For example an employee cannot be fired when pregnant. From a purely self-serving point of view, the OP is lucky the helper wants to quit. Many pregnant helpers shamelessly exploit their employers by sitting on the bums all day while collecting pay.


Note that nothing stops a helper from working while pregnant, just like any other employee. If your helper is great and wants to stay, and keeps working well, there is no significant problem.

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punter 15 yrs ago
The OP has the option not to sign a new contract (renewal). At the same time she can sign a new one and be responsible for the helper just like her own daughter. If she really likes the helper and would like to help, then the second option is a good one. Just be ready for unforeseen consequences and complications not thought of in advance.

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Starbucks2 15 yrs ago
punter - makes sense but to clarify for my own info, if a helper becomes pregnant towards the end of the contract, the employer has the right not to renew her and doesn't have to pay any maternity leave or other pregnancy related costs? An employer is only liable to pregnancy costs and maternity pay etc (and is obviously prohibited from terminating her) where the helper is due to give birth during the contract period?


SB2

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punter 15 yrs ago
Starbucks, yes. Once the contract is complete, there's no law that can force an employer to sign or enter a new one. Employment ends when the contract ends.


It's harsh on the employee's side, on the other hand, it was not the employer's "fault" that the employee got pregnant.

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Starbucks2 15 yrs ago
Thanks for the clarification punter. It does make sense. All benefits stop once a contract position ends I suppose.


SB2

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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
Apologies for missing the "1 month left" part. punter is correct.

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jassy67 15 yrs ago
Have a talk with the helper. What is her plan after the baby is born? Since she is married, is she interested in giving the child up for adoption.?

I think having a good chat with her about her plans and what she wants to do now and after. Can the bf support her while she stays in HK? If so and she is willing to give the child up, she could then continue to work for you after.


Since your other helper is a relative, won't she be suspicious if the helper doesn't renew with you?

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Susie1 15 yrs ago
What will be her husbands reaction, and her extended family back home when they find out she is pregnant by a boyfriend? she won't be able to hide it for long!

quite honestly the problem is really hers and her boyfriends not yours the employer. If she only has one month to go on a contract, think really seriously about whether you want to renew it,(or sponsor her) if you do you take on someone with all the possible ups and downs of pregnancy, and all the extra bills, that is the harsh reality.

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missdj 15 yrs ago
Yes, what will the husband's reaction be?

Since she doesn't want to renew because she doesn't the relative helper know, what are her future plans? Keep the baby? Give up for adoption? Can you talk to her to see. Since you really like her, IF her plans are not to keep the baby, can she return to work for you after the baby's birth? Then you won't lose her as a helper. Can you make do without 2 helpers for a few months? And then sign her again.

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tpol 15 yrs ago
Ask her what her BF intends to do.


Offer her the choice of an abortion in which she can pay you back.

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Susie1 15 yrs ago
If helper intends to give birth to the baby, she most likely won't be able to send it back to her 'home' country, like a lot of helpers do, because this baby won't be her husbands, so where is the baby going to go? to her boyfriends family?

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missdj 15 yrs ago
Good suggestion, ask her what her bf's plans are. Is he a local and want to take care the baby or family?

Although it really isn't your concern, I would be there for her to ask or talk to. Maybe she hasn't thought clearly about it or told the bf. Or doesn't know some options that are available.

We adopted a baby here in HK, and she is Filipina. So you never know, what she may want to do

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adele78 15 yrs ago
In one month she is no longer your employee as far as your responsibility goes but if you want to help her and want her to do what's best for herself she has to make a decission....Does she want to leave her husband and start up with her boyfriend? Does she want to stay with her husband and end things with her boyfriend? If the 1st is the case then you have a lot to discuss, if the 2nd option is what she wants then she needs to very quickly organise a termination.


Did you know she had a boyfriend on the side here? If not, that opens up a lot of other questions like what else might she be hiding from you. Could boyfriend mean 'john' and she's been 'working' on her days off?



Be careful about signing any agreement to sponsor her child too as you may be bound into a legal agreement until the kid is 18.


I personally would advise her to terminate and then think about her decisions regarding fidelity in the future. Had she not been with another man, this wouldn't have ever been an issue.

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Hat Trick 15 yrs ago
Meiji,

You are really lucky that you are in a position to walk away in one month's time. Look at previous posts regarding pregnant helpers and all the problems they have caused - other employers have all been angry about being stuck in an undesirable position.


As Adele said how do you know there even is a boyfriend - or just one? Strong possibility she is hanging round bars in Wan Chai on the week end and doesn't even know the father. Furthermore the person in question probably did not consider her as a "girlfriend" and was just using her for sex.


Your helper has not remained faithfull to her husband and has deceived her family - there is sure to be a big problem when they find out - which they will. You will be in the middle of a major drama if you don't walk away.


She has not been honest and stuck to marriage contract so you must question her moral values - she will probably try to take advantage of you also when she needs to. Clearly she is of bad character, she has created a big problem for herself and you would be crazy to continue to have any involvement with her - you have the ability to walk away - just do it. It is only going to get worse and you will be bringing problems on yourself and your family - is it really worth it for someone you don't really know and who is clearly not trustworthy.

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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
Hat Trick, while I agree there may be some cross fire, I disagree that her being unfaithful means she will intentionally create problems for the family.

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AngieC 15 yrs ago
Yes she might be a lonely person, but still that's no excuse for cheating.



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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
Personally I think that one should not openly judge such things as an outsider. Her own moral compass determines what is acceptable to her. It is not the employer's business apart from where it affects her work.

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tpol 15 yrs ago
I agree with Cara but she could've used protection?


If her religion does not permit her to use protection, then I wouldn't think it would allow her to cheat.

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miao miao 15 yrs ago
Re the OP's original question as to how they can sponsor the helper to stay in HK after her contract is completed: I don't see how that's possible, unless you sign another contract with her, in which case she MUST continue to stay in you house as live-out is not allowed in her case.


I generally agree that it's not the employer's business to pass judgment on an employee's personal life like this. Only thing is that in the case of a live-in helper, if I have children that are old enough to understand this sort of things, I'd feel a bit hard to explain this to them and ask them to still respect and listen to the helper despite the fact that she's done something quite big that my children have been taught is wrong.

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miao miao 15 yrs ago
But then I WOULD BE passing judgment on my helper's personal life by telling my children she made "big" mistakes (which she herself may or may not think so). . .


The dilemna lies in the fact that when the helper is dealing with children, the employer probably cannot stay from judging her personal life completely if you are concerned that your children may not be getting the right influence from her. . .

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miao miao 15 yrs ago
"if your helper doesn't think it's a mistake, then you just tell your kids it was her choice."


- these are things that I probably would want my kids to know are wrong, not something that they can freely choose to do. of course the helper can have this choice since it's not my business to dictate what is right or wrong for her, but problem arises when you have to tell your kids that it's wrong for them to do so in the future, but it's nothing wrong (or her choice) for auntie to do so.


"compassion, respect, tolerance are not bad things, and are things that should be taught."


- sure. no problem if only adults are involved. but i'm wondering whether it would blur the line for kids when you teach them that some basic values are fundamental and at the same time that breach of these values should be tolerated.


"if your helper doesn't liver her life the way you would have it, doesn't make it wrong... just different."


- true as far as I myself is concerned. but again when kids are involved and things so basic as cheating on your spouse are the issue, i probaby would want to tell my kids these are wrong, not just different.


anyway, this is way off topic, just something i randomly thought about. it would be a difficult situation if it ever arose, and different people surely will handle it differently.

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miao miao 15 yrs ago
"my concern would be down the road as your kids get older what would your reaction be if say, your daughter got pregnant or your son tried drugs? i would worry that they might be afraid of coming to you/me because of strict ideas of "right & wrong"..."


- what my reaction would be in that case is a different question from what i would teach my children beforehand. hopefully most parents including myself, as well as schools, will teach their children that (generally) getting pregnant as a teenage or taking drugs is not the right thing to do. if, however, despite what i and the school teach them, my children still unfortunately get into those, i would still tell them that those are not the right thing to do but, as a parent i still love them and would like to help them get over the problem. but they should also recognize that what they've done is not right.



"however, when it came time to explaining to my children, i would do just as i said above. "auntie is having a baby." if my kids are very young, that's all they need to know."


-- i would say the same.


"if they are older and ask questions, then maybe i'd let them ask her and then i would add my own caveats."


-- that's exactly the original question that bothered me. like said, i'd be worried what she's going to tell them and, if it's different from what i believe my children should be taught, how i should let my children understand the basic values that i deem important without degrading the helper in their view. this is just a hypothetical question; i just haven't found the answer to it yet.

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meiji 15 yrs ago
Thanks everyone. Just kind of want to update on the situation.


Had a serious talk and genuinely concerned for my helper......


First of all, this helper is definitely NOT working as a prostitute. The relative knew about this bf on the side, and did mention that she suspected her having a bf in HK. Informed me awhile ago, and my husband and I 's position was, what helper does in her private life, unless it interferes or disrupts our family, is NONE of our business.


The most important thing is, she is the more caring, careful, considerate, and gentle person.... she takes care of my kids even better than myself sometimes. My children love her, and we value her very much in our family in the past few years. I asked her what her intentions are, she said, she wants to continue with this pregnancy, and her bf and family will support her all the way. She intends to give birth back in Philppines, then come back when baby is settled with bf's relatives.


I asked her to think.... whether this is really the path she wants to take, and whether this bf is worthy of her giving up everything to do this ? And this baby, unless she has her marriage annulled, and marries this bf, the baby is basically illegitimate child. She said, her marriage was long gone before she came to HK to work for me, but because of the kids, she wanted to maintain her marriage best she could. But now, she said since she love her bf, she doesn't want to end this pregnancy.....


She cried, and I cried, I told her anything she needs or our help in the future, let me know, just call us. I worry so much for her, and cried because I do know what a tough path her life will be..... I appreciate her honesty because at her stage, if she never told me, she could have just renewed with me, I offered already. Instead, she told me the truth because she says she loves our family very much, and that she knows I will need to find a new helper immediately.


I intend to let her finish the contract, give her a lump of money to go home.

Thanks all !

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miao miao 15 yrs ago
meiji, giving her a lump sum to go home is probably the best help you can give her and she'll definitely appreciate it. given what she told you, she had an unfortunately situation to begin with even before she came to HK. like any one with a failed marriage, how she's going to deal with her marriage/bf/baby, she's the only one that can decide what to do.


life has to move on, for both of you. good luck.

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adele78 15 yrs ago
Good for you meiji. I think you're doing the right thing. I feel bad for your helper now that I have a more full picture. I hope she finds her feet.

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heidz 15 yrs ago
i just hope one day the immg of hk will put an additional do's and dont's of a domestic helper here in hongkong. that if the domestic helper is married woman she should avoid having having a relationship with man. and those single domestic helper should not have a relationship with married man.

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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
Agreed with cara. Seriously, even if the Immigration Department had such regulations, would that be a stronger obstacle than the social norms that already exist?

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starries 15 yrs ago
warning ...it was a major headache full of half truths and dysfunctional relationship dramas when I got sympathtically involved in my former pregnant helper's private life...I will never do so again...

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Amparo Kia 15 yrs ago
Meiji, I think you have done the best decision and have done all u can to assist the woman, I am not so sure but it seems there is no divorce in the Philippines???

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notyou 15 yrs ago
I wonder if the helper will be back in a month after the baby is born. If she were, maybe you would want her to come back?

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