Posted by
guest
20 yrs ago
Shall we start somewhere for the list of bad maids?
I really have had enough. If we can identify the name of all bad maids, then we can protect ourselves from mental and monetary sufferings.
Any ideas?
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md
20 yrs ago
Not really a good idea - defamation laws and all of that and then we will be met with a "bad employers" list! It is so subjective - what is "bad"? I think the best way around it is to only go with verbal references from the immediate past employer. What do you think?
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Gandalf, I totally agree with you. Sometimes, the problems lie in ourselves but we dont realise it. It might hv to do with our expectations. We might expect too much from our helpers but our helpers are only prepared to do the bare minimum. But this does not make them bad. You work overtime and work hard in your company because there might be a promotion in your career and might be in yr income too. For helpers, where and what can they be promoted?
I think we have to be realistic. As previous thread suggested 'Good' and 'Bad' can be so subjective in this case. My family loves my sister-in-law's helper but my sister-in-law doesnt like her at all. So how to decide?
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guest
20 yrs ago
Gandalf, sorry if I have misled you but so far I have just fired one DH.
This maid shouted at my wife, who just gave birth to a lovely baby girl mid May, was very dirty and always answered back.
On the day I let her go, she's all ready and asked me to pay her agency fees back in her home town, which is definitely not required.
The money was ready for her to take but she insisted to get the agency fees. Result? She left my apartment without taking anything.
She even asked me not to expect too much from her because according to her, nobody is perfect! Holy!
If you want that maid, I am sure she's still around although it's already more than 2 weeks.
I need to meet her at the Labor Department this coming Thursday. And you know what!? I don't have to pay that agency fee after all these stupid and time-wasting exercises.
Anyways, thank you for suggesting that I am the problem.
I'm managing 30+ staff in my company, and I clearly know who and where the problem is.
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Guest - Have just send you a private message
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guest
20 yrs ago
Gandalf, please re-read your first message. You're suggesting that I'm the problem, right? I apologized in my reply that I may have misled you, and then continued to give you a thousand facts that I may be the innocent and victim.
Defensive?
Well, who's being offensive in the first place?
And gosh, you've been here for 20 years doesn't mean you know everything too.
And as my "bad" maid Esther says, nobody is perfect. Ha!
I obviously don't know all and see all, so do you!
Good luck.
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But guest, your thread did suggest to me as well that you have had a lot of bad experience with helpers. May be your problem is your English, just like mine (^-^).
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Guest- Thanks for the tip. Thank goodness its not the same one!! Goodluck on Thursday.
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guest
20 yrs ago
Mighty, can we please stop suggesting what the problem is here?
This is really annoying.
Yes. I have had a lot of bad experience with DH. But it's not necessarily expressed in terms of the number of helpers but the number of days.
Fact is, both my wife and I suffered since day one.
I'm really tired of discussing this issue here. After all, I just want to look for ways where we can protect ourselves from hiring bad DH.
However, can I suggest that you guys have problems understanding my meaning?
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Ed
20 yrs ago
This idea of a 'bad maids' list has come up before and we will not allow it.
How do we know that the bad maid is really so bad and that the employer is not unreasonable?
God knows we hear horror stories from the lady who manages our helper section on the site of both bad helpers AND bad employers. Putting up a black list of bad helpers is akin to convicting people without a trial and we wont do it. There are nearly 200,000 expats on our HK site each month and the helper channel is one of the most popular areas - such a blacklist would almost certainly ensure that a maid put on it will be sent packing.
Instead of a black list I suggest you check the reference letters of any prospective hire and, ideally, speak with the last employer before you sign a contract.
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guest
20 yrs ago
Ed, thanks.
What if the reference check isn't available?
The DH community in HK is growing, and just like every other labor unions, it's not really healthy.
We always try our best to protect DH, because we believe naively that if we treat them good, they will treat us right.
But let's fact it. They will take it for granted and start to abuse our kindness.
Just because nobody is perfect!?
Who's going to protect the employer?
Anyway, I respect your decision.
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That is disgusting, lumping all DH together in a "we versus they" argument.
How can you claim all DH will take your piddly $3,500 a month "for granted" and abuse the employer's kindness, which usually consists of terse commands and perpetuated class difference?
I hope you abandon this "bad maid" idea and tone down the comments on Hong Kong's DHs, who always fight an uphill battle here.
You must be a high school student pulling our collective legs.
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guest
20 yrs ago
Pathoftherighteous, are you sure that ALL DHs in HK won't abuse? If so, then be it.
FYI, I ain't no high school student.
And please be assured that I am not trying to give hard times to DHs.
I assume you have been living a decent life with nothing to worry about. You got a nice job, nice environment, nice social circles...
You may not even have to care about nothing.
But sorry, I ain't as lucky as you are.
I just want to protect my own rights, as an employer.
An employer may not be necessarily better off than DH.
So please stop this stupid assumption if you don't know the intentions behind.
And please stop making stupid assumptions when you don't know all and see all.
Good luck.
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I'll let your post be the final one for our conversation, seeing as how you have to get up early for school tomorrow.
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Ed
20 yrs ago
Guest > if a helper is unable to provide a reference letter from their previous employer and/or the contact tel of that person then I suggest you take a pass on hiring them.
Hiring a helper is no different than hiring any other employee...if someone showed up without a CV and reference letters then its unlikely they'd even make it past the first interview.
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guest
20 yrs ago
Pathoftherighteous, I am sorry for your stupidity. Bless you. If you are a foreigner working for a MNC at a senior management position, bless your company.
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sometimes we have to check what we say & how we express ourselves esp when dealing w/ a person w/ different culture. Have you (guest)ever thought that there might be a reason why the helper shouted at your wife? I am not taking sides here, its just that from an experience I know some people they will go at great lenghts to impress! From reading your postings, I have the feeling that you see helpers like second class citizens! they are human beings too!
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guest
20 yrs ago
HKNET, thank you for your understanding.
Coquinne, thank you for your suggestion, but please again stop making unnecessary assumptions when you don't have all the facts.
The reason she shouted at my wife was because my wife pointed out her wrongdoings. She forgot to switch off the gas tap and my wife smelt it...
And if you've forgotten, my wife just gave birth to a lovely baby girl mid-May!
Do you know what the consequence would be if we didn't realize the gas leak!?
Please share with me exactly which sentences give you the feeling that I regard DH as second class citizen!?
I was a second class citizen many years ago in Canada, and I know how it feels!
And you know what!? I am a pure Hongkongnese, but I don't really feel that I am a first class citizen here in my homeland since the company place I am working for is full of foreigners and they think they are the first class!
Stop making wrong assumptions!
We hired a DH from Indonesia, and she was on board a few days ago.
She's doing great so far, and my wife and I have no complaint!
Please don't get me wrong. I ain't suggesting that Filipino DH is no good. My grandma got 3 Filipino maids, and 1 was good, and the rest was bad because they stole things.
Anyway, whatever.
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well good luck w/ your new Indonesian helper, be careful though they are known for making potions to make their employers like them. By understanding the title of your posting "Bad Maids List" it sounds like you have had more than a dozen of helpers already.
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:-)
20 yrs ago
I heard that they going to spit in your tea.coffee and in your food..so be careful.
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Spitting in the coffee,tea and food, that is true..
My daughter used to play with my neighbour who have daughter too same age,go to the same school etc.sometimes my daughter my daughter go to my neighbour's house and she saw (Indonesian) the maid spitting on the girl food/so my daughter run to me and told me what she saw.i called my neighbour daughter to my house to have lunch instead of eating the food that maid prepared and told the employer.so they thought that she's been doing it since she started working with them,thy fired her.
So just be careful.observe you maid..
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Angel
20 yrs ago
Ha!ha!
Well that's true. my friend's maid did that to my friend.
My friends's hubby is very very strict in terms of everything,he yell at the maid evry minute. and maybe the maid pissed off so she spit on my friend's husband tea.my friend caught her in the act, so they fired her right away..they're really mean if you don't treat them like as a person.
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guest
20 yrs ago
Hic, thank you for your comments.
Let's wrap up...
When your finger points at someone, three point back at yourself.
I don't really care if I am a dick or not.
But Ultra8, I hope you ain't. And I also hope that you aren't unemployed.
Good luck.
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let's face it, no matter how we try to be good to others there will still be misunderstandings. I heard about helpers rubbing chili in their madame undies.. why? well some madames treat their helpers unjustly! some stuff loads of butter in the pipes to revenge. Yeah right helpers don't work for free, but not because employers pay them that they need to work every penny of it every second. However as employers you have the right to impose house rules like not going out after work especially on weekdays.
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employers and would be employers be aware that anything could happen, pointing at someone who does this potion is not about an ignorant prejudice or rather being small minded. Its happening, its real! Who knows if this potion really is effective but just the thought of it is creepy.
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tly
20 yrs ago
Guest, I would like to ask you about that DH... can't seem to send you a personal message. Any other way for me to contact you? Thanks.
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guest
20 yrs ago
TLY, I just sent you a personal message. Please check.
FYI, that maid will return to her homeland on 23 Jun, unless she can get herself a new employer, which is very unlikely.
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I have been working in Hong kong as a helper for fifteen years and my suggestions to all employers who will always have problems with their helpers is "YOU DO NOT NEED HELPERS". Have your wives look after your families and get an English nanny to babysit when you need one. Yes they are expensive but you will pretty much "get what you pay".
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s8899
20 yrs ago
My goodness! The problem is many domestic helpers take things for granted. If employer only pays the minimum, many Dh are just not happy and do nasty things for granted.
Employer only has the duty to pay the minimum wage. It is on the contract. Both party agreed. DH should do her work properly on the minimum wage, otherwise, don't be a domestic helper!Paying extra by an employer is a bonus, for good service by DH, DON'T TAKE IT FOR GRANTED.
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If DH's don't like their conditions of pay be like the rest of us.......don't do the job!
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guest
20 yrs ago
cara, is there something wrong with you?
you give all canadains a bad name instead because your comments gave me the impression that you, the so-called canadian, are better than me, and that in your eyes, i am simply a jerk!
well, if that makes you feel better and makes your country more glorious, then i'm the jerk!
just hope that you are not.
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guest
20 yrs ago
cara, my wife is doing well.
regarding your "respect" issue, i only hope that you show more respect to others, but not only to your families and friends.
peace!
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Wow, it's hard to understand how factual incidents posted by quest could attract so many personal attacks. Just by a single incident of requesting for agency fees, how many of you actually think what this helper expect from her employer is reasonable? Perhaps most replies are from helpers in the helpers section who will go great lengths to defend themselves.
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Dear Guest,
You don't sound like a nice person.. from the threads you posted.
there is a saying.... what comes out of our mouths is a reflection of our hearts.
so, what you wrote, whether in defense or whatever,.... sure is evidence you are someone I would not want to work with.
so, take it easy
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guest
20 yrs ago
Dear Tiara 123, noted with thanks, and believe it or not, I greatly appreciate your comments. However, it's definitely not YOU to judge whether I'm nice or not. I have a very good maid now, and both my wife and I are happy.
Don't worry.
I also don't like to work with anyone who knows nothing but thinks he or she knows everything and makes irresponsible comments.
You take care, and hope you'd be able to find your ideal employer and live a good and decent life.
You take your life easy.
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Life
20 yrs ago
A lot of people with too much time on their hands.
Guest: there was nothing wrong with your original post. It could be read two ways. Either you have had several DH’s or you are really fed up with the one you have, and you have had that person for a long time. So all you “supposed English speakers” get a grip! Once he clarified what he meant that should have been enough. I am sure we have all said things that have been miss-interpreted some time during our life.
Cara: Your statement completely shocked me. Or is this someone using your nickname? What do you mean by “you give Canadians a bad name”? Followed by ‘at uni I tried to befriend some HK Chinese students because I thought I might end up here. They looked at me as if I had three heads… so maybe you thought you were a “second class” citizen when in actual fact you were just a jerk”
That is such a hateful statement to make after saying someone else gives Canadians a bad name. You have just reinforced the “I must be better than you, after all I tried to make friends and you didn’t accept my friendship.. so you must be a jerk”. Did you just lump all HK Chinese into one lump with your statement? Did you try to make friends with Guest and he personally was ugly to you? He is Canadian of HK Chinese descent but your statement indicates that he is one of “those HK Chinese”, who are unfriendly. Ever stop to think that maybe these students could not understand you very well and rather than show their differences shied away? Besides the fact that most foreign students tend to shy away from natives and it takes some time and a lot of confidence and trust on their part, to be able to make friends. Or maybe, you had a "bugger" hanging out of your nose, which they saw and you did not.
Most of you might not realize it, but a lot of maids do not like to be criticized, and the way you go about criticizing them makes all the difference in the world. I am sure many of you do not want your bosses coming into the office and blatantly calling you an idiot and criticizing you.. the same goes with your maids. They might not make a lot of money, but you should still treat them with the same respect that you expect from others in your work place.
Here is a better example, for the Ladies. If you spent quite a bit of time cooking a meal for your husband, and felt really good about yourself and the effort you made, and he sat down, took a bite, made a face, and asked you not to cook the meal like that again. How many of you would not either respond with.. “then next time you cook dinner yourself” or at least not think.. “what a jerk!”. Surely you could have found a nicer way to tell me you didn’t like what I fixed.
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I have to say that I think the majority of Hong Konger's with maids are totally spoiled and don't know when they are well off!
Many employers treat their maids like little more than slaves and pay & treat them very poorly.
I know employers who make their maids work 12 hours a day six days a week and still expect the maid to be on call on their day off!!! Is that fair?
I would like to see some of the people with maids have to do the maids job for a month!...I doubt if they could handle it. I am not a maid but I have knowledge of the abuses..making maids sleep with four dogs on a shelf...I don't know if there is such a thing as a judgement day? but sometimes people should at least take a good long look in the mirror or try to imagine themselves in other peoples position. Most domestic helpers are nice people who are doing their best to earn a living away from home...so be nice to them and respect them as human beings!!!
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Life
20 yrs ago
Honest: it is a superority complex that people get when for the first time they own a slave. Because everyone is doing it, it must be okay. Like you said, 12 hours a day (and ones with kids 15 hrs/day). Who in their right minds is going to work for such long hours with out overtime pay, or a chance for advancement? 7 vacation days as opposed to 30? The worst part is people know good and well that how they treat their maids, would not be acceptable in their home countries.
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my my my.... Guest... why so defensive? take it easy....relax
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Life
20 yrs ago
Gandalf, you are correct, stay at home mom's and in some countries, working mom's have the same hours. BUT! in the end, if the marriage is a good one, you end up with a house that is paid for, a retirement/ social security /pension plan to take care of you when you are old.
The pay may be less, but the fringe and overall benefits are greater.
Plus those kids you raised, (if you raised them properly) will always be there for you.
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As someone who has had bad experience with helpers (I found one of mine partying and the house in shambles at 3am in the morning when I returned earlier than originally planned from a business trip and another who is very rude and shouts everytime you try to correct her), my sympathies are with you, Guest. Also, you've got mail.
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I do not mean to jump of the bandwagon but I suppose that it is already too late. I think that personalities conflict in so many ways from characteristic traits that the have gained throughout upbringing, culture, current situation etc. I still believe in the old saying one man's trash is another man's treasure. I might knock heads with one (helper) that another person would love to have or vice versa...
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