Where Do We Stand

Our domestic helper was with us for 4 weeks. One day of the last week my husband came home early to find her at home and our 4 year old daughter not there (this was after KG hours) It turned out she had sent our daughter to another helpers with our daughters friend to come home and prepare some food. Since this we have dismissed the helper as she is not capable of taking care of our daughter.

The helper has been to the labour dept. and is claiming that we owe her 1 months money. We have piad her $4000 from 1- 17 Nov inc airfair.

What ae our rights on this matter?

Also we need another helper as we both have to work and have been informed if this goes under investigation we cannot employ another helper until this ends?

inkpot, I think you are taking this a bit too far.


Had the OP spoken to the helper about leaving the child with someone else without prior consent? I mean, our helper does this without asking us, but she knows we are fine with it. It's a playdate...


Assuming the OP didn't agree such an arrangement, the helper did go against the employer's instructions, but I don't think it was gross negligence. She didn't exactly leave the daughter out on the street. She left her in the care of someone she obviously trusted.


inkpot88, you wrote "owner of the other helper". I hope that is a typo.


"Just stir things up and that maid will turn against your maid.."


Seriously?

Thanks for the advice. I will have to bite the bullet and pay her the months money. I really need to get another helper and fast, so don't need this lingering on.


Actually she didn't have our permission to leave her with another helper and there was really no reason for her to do so.


You live and learn.


There really should be some clause that if the helper cannot perform the duties assigned to them, they can be released from their duties, especially when they have only been employed for one month.

curlysue2, just to clarify my earlier statement. If you hadn't given prior consent for your helper to leave your daughter with someone else, it was wrong of her to do so. I just don't think she was grossly negligent.



The clause you call for exists already. Quoting the "Guidebook for the Employment of Domestic Helpers from Abroad (ID 969)”, §56 Clause 11".


"An employer may immediately terminate a helper who:

- “willfully disobeys a lawful and reasonable order;

- misconducts himself/herself, such conduct being inconsistent with the due and faithful discharge of his/her duties;

- is guilty of fraud or dishonesty;

- is habitually neglectful in his/her duties; or

- has caused the employer, on any other ground, to be entitled to terminate the contract without notice at common law.”


I think this case could fall under "misconducts himself/herself, such conduct being inconsistent with the due and faithful discharge of his/her duties;"

inkpot,


maids are not slaves and are not "owned" by employers.

Thanks axptguy38 I know I am in my rights to terminate her under Clause 11, however she has been to the labour dept. and it seems that if I don't pay her the money in a week they will take action. It seems they don't want to know the reasons why she was dismissed as I asked her if she had informed them that she left my daughter without permission and she did not.


So how long would this thing drag on before I could even start looking for another helper. (there's one week already).


Sometimes it's just best to admit defeat.

My daughter is my main priority and it was meant to be my helpers.

At this point labor has only heard her side. Call immigration and also send them a letter informing them of what has happened. Do this regardless of whether you will terminate for cause or not.

While writing to this forum seeking guidance is good, it would be more prudent to write to labour dept and immigration explaining why you let her go. You have to tell your side of the story and you must highlight clause 11 and your interpretation of this clause.


Just becuase you didn't tell someone NOT to do something does NOT mean they can go ahead and do it. They should ask permission.


She should have sought your permission first - to me this is obvious. If you had granted your permission and she did it again then I think it is a totally new story. However, she never sought your permission and she had no right to arrange the care of your daughter with someone else.

beancurd, i could be wrong but my understand was that if there was reason or grounds for termination, then that 1 month's salary in lieu of notice is not applicable.

curlysue axptguy is correct


Termination of contract without notice by employer

47. Clause 11 : The employer may terminate the contract without notice or payment in lieu if the Helper, in relation to his/her employment:


1. wilfully disobeys a lawful and reasonable order;


2. misconducts himself/herself, such conduct being inconsistent with the due and faithful discharge of his/her duties;


3. is guilty of fraud or dishonesty;


4. is habitually neglectful in his/her duties; or


5. has caused the employer, on any other ground, to be entitled to terminate the contract without notice at common law.


There are some helpers who think that they can act in however way they want so they will get dismissed and get a month's salary in lieu of notice, what they don't know is that there are instances where they will not be entitled to 1 month's pay and may be dismissed immediately; or maybe they do know this but also know that some employers will just pay up and not deal with the hassle.

Curlysue2, in my own opinion what your helper did equates to gross negligence as she did not have permission to leave you child with another helper in an environment that you may or may not approve of. As a parent I make sure that our house is toddler proofed, special plugs in the electricity sockets, special winders for the blind cords (as they are a hanging risk), detergents etc locked out of the way, windows locked ect. When my daughter goes visiting for playgroup our helper goes along and is vigilant to make sure our daughter doesn't break other people's belongings nor is injured in our friend's home. When one helper is looking after two children (maybe more), one of which she may not be familiar with she may not be able to cope when the slightest thing starts to go wrong. It is the parent's prerogative to assess the risk and make the appropriate decision for their child. If together you decide that your helper is capable of making these decisions then fine, but in all other circumstances I agree with bob the builder


Just because you didn't tell someone NOT to do something does NOT mean they can go ahead and do it. They should ask permission.


Beancurd, the fact of the matter is domestic help is a profession and not a charity, one can not have it both ways. You can either choose to be professional about your job, do it to the best of your ability and KEEP your job and all its perks. The converse of this is to be incompetent, and then summarily dismissed without a month's pay due to gross negligence, and have no where to stay. I am sorry but if domestic helpers wish to be treated as a profession (which is my philosophy) it comes with both the perks...higher pay if you perform, a supportive working environment, longevity of employment....and the problems when you don't. If I sloughed off the supervision of my juniors in my office to someone else with no good reason, then I don't think my boss would care whether I had a mortgage, school fees, bills to pay, it would be out the door!


Also about the labour department, having dealt with them about disputes involving locals (not domestic helpers) in the course of my profession, I can tell you first hand that they do investigate some fairly groundless cases, which eventually they found in our company's favour....but so they should, there needs to be mechanism by which workers are able to challenge a perceived unfairness in the labour market....but to assume that a case taken on by the labour department definitely has merit is incorrect.


Curlysue2, I understand why you would wish to pay the one month and get on with it....as you have a job and a child on the line, but I would urge you to do as bob the builder suggested and have it on file why you dismissed your helper, so that should anything arise in the future DESPITE the fact that you paid her off, it would not come back to bite you. Also it would serve to leave some record on her history for the next employer should problems arise later on, because as employers we should all work together in a civic minded way to help each other flag out the troublesome helpers which taint all the other great, hard working ladies by the same brush......unfortunate black swan effect.


Good luck curlysue2, keep persevering, you will eventually find a good fit for your family and when you do it will be life changing!

Beancurd,


Until the Labour Dept has heard Curlysue's side they cannot possibly decide whether it is worthwhile or not to pursue. At present they have a DH saying "my employee sacked me without a good reason and didn't pay me me month in lieu". So of course the Labour department will pursue Curlysue to ask her why she hasn't paid her. It doesn't mean it is a "Won" case for the DH because they have written to Curlysue.


Curlysue,


You need to speak with the Labour department and put in a letter explaining why she was fired for cause. It may mean they ask you to go and speak with them, but they may not. Or they may hold a mediation meeting with you and the helper explaining to the helper why she hasn't been given a month in lieu.


In the mean time, just start hiring again. As long as you have written to Immigration (within seven days of firing her) saying you have fired her for cause, paid her travel expenses, flight costs, then you can hire again. The case at the Labour department will not stop Immigration from processing a new DH Contract for you.


"Also we need another helper as we both have to work and have been informed if this goes under investigation we cannot employ another helper until this ends?" Whoever told you this? It is not true! The two elements are totally unrelated.

curleysue2 has already paid the wages owed and the outgoing airfare. The only likely reason why the labour department has accepted the case is because as spurtio said that the helper has gone and claimed "my employee sacked me without a good reason and didn't pay me me month in lieu", which is totally untruthfully. I can't see the labour department saying well you've a reasonable case if the helper had said 'my employer sacked me without paying me one month in lieu as I left their 4 year old child with another domestic helper outside of their home without their permission and knowledge'.

Thanks again to everyone for their input and advice.

After we fired the helper we did send a letter to immigration stating the grounds upon which she was fired, so they do have it on record.

However, we also called immigration and they informed us that we can only terminate the helper without a months payment if she repeats the (lets call it offence, cos I can't think what else to call it) more than once, which of course I had no intention of letting it happen again.

Do please note that imm. are also tracking employer's record as well not inclusively for helpers only. If a certain employer is considered 'terminator' then there is a point that imm. will give warning. In the OP's case, imm. perhaps think the situation that happened was bearable so imm. esked to pay a months payment to the helper...