Posted by
cookie09
15 yrs ago
this is not called fraud but supply and demand for labour. i don't know what's wrong with you but you could have kept her here if you were willing to match the canada salary.
of course you are not, hence you lost her.
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How is this fraud? I agree with cookie09. Your helper has the right to quit; same as you have the right to lay her off. I don't see any reason for complaint. When you hire a helper it's like hiring any other employee. There is a risk that she can quit at any time. Treat her well and you decrease that risk, but it will never go away.
I do not agree that all Philippine helpers want to move to Canada. Many prefer to stay in HK or Singapore, which are closer to home and where there is a large Philippine community. Also going to Canada is probably not a bed or roses either.
"Why can't Hong Kong Government do something like this to provide a bit high quality oversea domestic helpers for us since they allow so many to come over."
I don't see the Japanese model as desirable. DH salaries would go through the roof, meaning fewer people could hire help.
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Never understand all these complaints about DHs..
For 4k a month, what do you expect them to do? If they can get 4 times that salary, why wouldn t they go for it.. As cookie said, you have the choice to keep her if you re willing to match. (Im pretty sure that a bit less than 18k will get her to stay as she s close to home..)
Would you not quit your job if you could get 4 times somewhere else?
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It's crazy to me how people treat domestic helpers like their possessions.
As if they dont want to make as much as they can doing as little work as possible, just like us.
how dare she want more money! Fraud lol beware!!!! :)
Come on! She fired you!?! Was she paying you? how exactly did she fire you?
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tpol
15 yrs ago
I too agree with Cookie. If someone offered you less work time and 5 times your pay, would you leave?
I know many people in finance who use jobs as stepping stones. So why not FDH?
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I agree that it is very frustrating when a helper, who you feel is not very good in the first place, resigns in a situation such as this. It happened to me at a very inconvenient time some years ago and i had to make all sorts of expensive alternative arrangements over a period of about 6 months until we employed our current helper.
I know you can't help but feel resentful but, as others have pointed out, the helper is within her rights to maximise her earning opportunites and employment in Canada clearly offers a number of benefits which simply aren't available here.
We are now paying our current helper HKD 11,000 per month. The story behind this is that we told her we were leaving HK and she applied to work in Canada, starting from the leaving date we gave her. Our plans then changed and we asked her whether she would consider staying on with us for another 1 to 2 years. We then negotiated a deal which we are both happy with.
The $11K represents the salary she would have earned in Canada (I saw the contract). We also compensated her for her Canadian agency fees (about $18K). We will pay this salary for one year. If we have not left HK at that time, her salary will revert to $6000 per month. Long service and/or severance pay will be calculated on the contract rate of $4500 per month. Our helper would still be eligible to apply to work in Canada in 1 to 2 years' time.
We are fortunate in being able to afford this option and I appreciate that other employers would either not be able to afford it or would not consider it good value for money. All households are different and we could not afford this as a long term solution. However it works for us in our particular circumstances.
Fundamentally, it depends on the relationship - i would not have offered this deal to the first helper i mentioned. Although it was troublesome at the time, her leaving was actually a good thing, given her performance. You might find the same thing!
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It seems what made the OP most frustrated was the fact that her helper had signed the contract with her only for the purpose of processing her Canadian visa in HK, with no intent, from the very beginning, to form a genuine employment relationship with her.
Like others have said, though, I would not call it a fraud. I would probably consider it an unethical or unfair behavior on the job market. It's one thing to start a job with good faith, but later feel unhappy with it or find a better offer and quit (or bargain for a better deal with the current employer). It's even fine, I think, to settle for a job you don't like very much but has to do for financial or whatever reasons, with the intent to keep looking for other opportunities (we all have to do that from time to time). But in my opinion the line is crossed when you procure a job that you have no intent to do at all (and be slack at it), just in order to facilitate another plan you are carrying out. That I would consider some sort of bad faith, unless you have told the employer about your intent from the beginning. And it's one thing to have to offer better package to retain an employee who has got a deal elsewhere in the normal course; that's a normal risk all employers have to be prepared for. But it's another if you have to buy over someone who never intended to work for you but only used you as a stepping stone; that's not a reasonable risk an employer would expect when he spends all the resources to hire an employee to do a job he needs done.
It's similar to purchasing an expensive camera for use on a trip, with the intent to return it immediately afterwards, or buying a set of fancy suit for an interview planning to return it right after you are done. Not possible here in HK but perfectly doable in countries like the US. Sure you are within your customer's rights to do those kinds of things, but I would think it an abuse of your rights and dishonest. Fine if you buy a TV set and feel not like it even after a year and return it, but if you plan it before you make the purchase . . .
As Axptguy38 said, desiring to go to Canada is probably not as common as the OP thought (in her frustration), and even less common is this kind of behavior. If this type of practice really becomes widespread, some reaction can probably be expected from the employers' side. Just like some stores in the US now do not allow you to return clothes unless the tag is still on.
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To Nikki,
I think from the description you gave of this helper anyway, it is a lucky break for you that she is going, she doesn't sound that good, lazy!
I would contact immigration and find out what you have to pay when she breaks the contract, because she has only been employed a short time by you and has obviously gone through the application process for Canada in the very early time she has been with you.
I think you might even be able to get rid of her without her working notice, into a boarding house or something,why should she have the pleasure of the comfort of your home while she waits to fly off elsewhere, I am not sure whether you will have to pay her air fare to Phils, but if you do it will only be one way, and it will make it more inconveinient for her to travel to Canada fron PHils.
Also make sure she has signed a letter, stating that it is her who left job, with a witness present, so that she can't start making accusations against you, because some are very crafty and dishonest This letter should be given to Immigration Deptwithin a week of her resignation. There are plenty more honest Dh's out there,and for your DH"s information , it doesn't always work out for them in Canada, but let her go and find out! good riddance I'd say
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Actually this is not a new trend as it happened to my daughter about 6 years ago. The helper had the intention from the very start and of course she withheld the truth and then told and resigned from her job when she got her permit to go to Canada after working about 3 months or so. She felt guilty as my daughter and son-in-law treated her well but her ideal job was definitely based in Canada as after a certain period working there, she can process her whole family to start a new life in Canada which is a great future for them. She left in good terms and wrote & called my daughter & son-in-law from time to time in the beginning and eventually faded out as expected.
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miao miao
"I would not call it a fraud. I would probably consider it an unethical or unfair behavior on the job market. It's one thing to start a job with good faith, but later feel unhappy with it or find a better offer and quit (or bargain for a better deal with the current employer). (...) But in my opinion the line is crossed when you procure a job that you have no intent to do at all (and be slack at it), just in order to facilitate another plan you are carrying out."
This very common behavior in the HK job market for low level/low paid employees. Employers deserve what they are willing to put in - whether that's a university graduate or a DH
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Mabe it would be a good idea, if processing helpers to go to Canada could only be done diretcly from the Philipines, they are making a mockery using HK Immigration to get a job here and then go elsewhere. Maybe that is one of the reasons HK imm. are thinking of training more local helpers, to stop these little scams by FDH's.
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beerboy, nobody is cheating anybody, it's a give & take, supply & demand situation. Please don't blemish the whole scenario.
I like my Filipino helper a lot. She is in her 5th year working for us (my husband & I - no children or pet) and we are paying her $4,000 per month but I will have no hesitation if things go out of hand to change to Mainland helpers if government allows the issue. We used to have 'amahs' way before the FDH came into HK.
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What does Hong Kong government got to do with Canadian consulate business?
Should other workers even professionals like engineers, programmers, accountants, bankers, etc. not be allowed to apply for jobs in other countries too?
imho, this is no scam/fraud.
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maxis
15 yrs ago
ha ha! good luck to her!
earn more, work less.
It seems local HK people are predominently those who tend to think of DH as chattel.
Note, plane loads of HK people stayed in Canada in 90's, and guess what! it wasn't CA$10/hour they got - they passports, their kids got the coveted "overseas education" and all the benefits generous countries like Canada offer !
HK people exploited Canada for their own benefit, so why shouldn't a Filipino DH get a bit of the good oil eh?
It turns one's stomach to hear the self-righteousness of people.
QUESTION:
who on this earth would stick around cleaning someone's bathroom in a cramped HK apartment and bartering in a stinking wet market, when you could go to a country like Canada where DH can get RESIDENCY and have THE SAME RIGHTS AS OTHER EXPATS,and earn much more and work much less and have a better standard of living?
it's hardly fraudulent to increase one's standard of living by migrating for a better job.
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most of the above posters seemed to have missed the point a bit. as the OP's pointed out, the problem does not lie in her helper's desire to have a better job/life, but rather the fact that she got her Canadian job offer first (so knew that she'd go to Canada) but then signed her contract with the OP for the purpose of staying in HK to process her Canadian visa. as I said earlier, I would consider that unethical/dishonest behavior on the part of a job seeker and unfair to an employer who spent all the resource to hire the employee in good faith. Of course part of the reason people missed this point seemed to be the OP's sarcastic comments about the Canadian working condition in her first post, which I think was counterproductive to her presentation of her case.
To cookie09:
"This very common behavior in the HK job market for low level/low paid employees. Employers deserve what they are willing to put in - whether that's a university graduate or a DH"
maybe so, maybe not, nobody has the statistics. but in any case I would still consider that an unethical practice on the part of the employee (whoever he/she is). whether or not that practice should or should not be blamed considering the low level nature of the job is another question. it's like most theft is commited by poor people but we all know stealing is morally wrong and some may think it's acceptable in special cases while others may disagree.
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tpol
15 yrs ago
Miao Miao, it happens in finance, IT and most other industries.
In Banking in China, it is very common.
Alot of friends and colleagues are also biding their time now in jobs that they have just taken and when the finance market picks up again, they are already determined to leave.
No difference in my book. It is the onus of the Employer to keep their staff.
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IH and tpol,
I agree it's no difference whether this practice happened in the DH industry or any other industry. What I disagree, though, is that to me, this practice IS unethical no matter who's the employee that's engaged in it. In my opinion, intent matters and there is something called "good faith". We seemed to differ as to what constitutes a breach of good faith. I agree this is a fine line to draw. Just to repeat what's said my earlier post:
It's one thing to start a job with good faith, but later feel unhappy with it or find a better offer and quit (or bargain for a better deal with the current employer). It's even fine, I think, to settle for a job you don't like very much but has to do for financial or whatever reasons, with the intent to keep looking for other opportunities (we all have to do that from time to time). (and this is what tpol mentioned his friends/colleagues are doing) But in my opinion the line is crossed when you procure a job that you have no intent to do at all (and be slack at it), just in order to facilitate another plan you are carrying out.
Again think about the analogy of a fake purchase. In the US virtually every customer has the right to return any product, but it's (to me) unethical if you pretend to make a purchase just in order to make a free use of something you are not willing to buy.
And as to "It is the onus of the Employer to keep their staff." Agreed, too. But this is not a case of keeping a staff. When the employee starts a job without even the slightest intent to actually do it as a job, it's a different game that the parties are playing from the performance -> incentive -> even better performance mechanism that an employer would reasonably expect to work in place. Same as it's the onus of the merchant to make the customer happy about its product. However, if the customer simply wants to free ride without paying even a reasonable price, the merchant cannot possibly make the product good enough so that the customer does not return the product.
Guess a lot of you still don't agree, but just what I thought.
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I agree with you, Miao Miao, it is unethical. and i empathise with the OP as it is very disheartening to find that you have been trying hard to make an impossible situation work - you do feel bitter and cheated.
However, if the DH wanted to get to Canada, she had very little choice other than to pretend that she wanted the job with the OP.
My helper (the one who did not go to Canada) said that the agency had told her several times NOT to return to the Philippines before leaving for Canada as there would then be a long delay in processing her papers by Canadian immigration. She had to leave for Canada from HK.
Given this, what else this helper do to get to Canada other than pretend she wanted the OP's job? Maybe she could have worked harder at it but, if the OP is upset at the deceit, it seems to have been necessary to achieve the aim. Presumably, the OP would not have hired her if she'd been honest about her intentions.
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that's a fair observation smallfry, and nothing in conflict with what i said before. admit it's unethical but think whether it can be forgiven considering the situation. everybody in their life would face some situation where there is tempting cause to do something not quite right. it's a test of one's moral standard and people fail all the time which may or may not be forgivable, and i will not make that judgment in this helper's case.
this discussion did remind me of another thread a long time ago where people were talking about an employer's options re work coverage when their helper gets pregnant/is on maternity leave. someone suggested hiring another FDH and terminate her when the pregnant one comes back. my response was that it's either impracticable or unfair. it'll be impracticable if you tell the new FDH upfront that you'll only need her for a few month and has to terminate her once the pregnant one comes back; is any (reasonably good) FDH out there that would want this job? it'll be unfair if you don't tell the new FDH about your plan but simply hire her under a two-year contract and terminate her once the pregnant one comes back. in that case is it fair to the new FDH just because you give one month's notice or pay in lieu? i don't think so and hopefully most would agree. the new FDH enters into a two-year contract with you, expecting that she will not be terminated except for the normal reasons, i.e., poor performance, your financial inability; your relocation, or your other change of situation which was UNKNOWN at the time of signing the contract. (so my conclusion in that case being that the only fair and feasible option is to get a legal part-time).
isn't that same analysis applicable here? or do people think differently depending on whether it's the employer or the helper who breaches the contract? or would you say it's nothing unfair for the new FDH to be suddenly terminated and it's her onus to out-perform the old one so that you keep her instead?
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meiji
15 yrs ago
well, Nickki, welcome to the trend. It's not new. That's why if you don't want your helper to USE you as a middle step to Canada, find out her intentions by testing her during interview, and I avoid hiring college grad.
Indonesians are also the other option.
There are many Filipina helpers who choose NOT to go to Canada. My helper's sister keeps asking her to go, her sister has already got residency, and her kids are now going, she worked 4 years as a caregiver, she used to be a helper in HK over 10 years. Now she owns a car, and she is bringing her kids to college in Canada. How they manage to pay for all this I have no idea, I recall when I lived in Canada, what made us leave was the taxes! No matter how much we made, after taxes, it was alway the same as the lazy neighbour next to us.... (almost!".It's like a communist country, you make lots, they tax you to be the same as the ones who aren't making as much.
My helper chose to stay in HK to work with us because I give her a 3 week vacation each year to visit her kids back home. It would be too hard for her to call home, or visit from Canada.
She also says she hates the cold weather.
So, good luck, just hire a non-college grad with years of experience working in HK, you will be fine!
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tpol
15 yrs ago
She mentions:
"Basically she only needs to attend one healthy person (me) and my son (20 yrs old) whom will come back for 3 months summer holidays each yr."
So for 9 months of the year, it is 1 person
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Nickki, why did you pay her HKD 5,000? If she resigns and breaks contract YOU don't have to give her any pay in lieu. She has to give you one month's notice and work the month's notice, or else if she leaves immediately she has to pay you one month's salary in lieu of notice.
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The helper did give the one month notice.
This case is just another one of the many that employers will have regarding helpers. Some issues are asinine to some but are big deals (or made into big deals) by some. In the end, each employer has to handle situations like this their own way.
However, posts like this also gives us a view on how some employers treat/view/see their helpers.
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Ms. Leung you are just upset that a Filipina had the unmitigated temerity to behave like a true capitalist and look out for herself despite how it affected you. You had a contract with her. A contract is a business relationship, not a personal one. She made a good business decision. If you have a problem with how capitalism works maybe you don't belong in Hong Kong.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
There's no needing to conduct a gramer and speling lesson on the fourums... thats' condecending to thows of us 4 who inglish is knot hour ferst lagwage...
Thanks...
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Let's get one bit of naivety out of the way first. There is a belief that FDH who are not paid the full amount can have everything sorted so easily which is actually not quite the case. An FDH who reports an employer to the Labour Dept pretty much immediately loses their job and has to stay in HK until the case is heard with no salary.
So to those who believe it is so easy please explain why a helper who is maybe $20,000 in debt with agency fees and knows they may have 6 months stuck in HK with no income if they complain, has all options open to them? Simple case is, they don't. If they do then there is pretty only one option open to them to earn money and the majority of these women would never go down that route.
So please try and understand the reality first before making baseless claims that people are well protected. The simple case is they are not.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Fortunately when we re-launch the sites there will be an option to close off the discussions when they degrade into non-constructive mode...
For now, please stay away from the personal insults as I am deleting them...
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tpol
15 yrs ago
can you add clauses into an agreement with an FDH like you can with Tenancy Agreements?
something to protect against something like this or at least weed out the one of have the same intentions as Nikki's ex-helper.
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Ed
15 yrs ago
Ed's Note...
It's of course ok to disagree with someone - but please don't ridicule or insult them in doing so
And in particular please do not mock someone because their grammar/spelling is not correct - we have many expats (and locals) on here who's first language is not English... keep in mind not all expat hail from the US, UK, Europe, Canada and Australia.... over half of our members are holding Asian passports... So dont expect perfect English... if you are concerned about spelling you can join http://www.freewebs.com/mujer17/GT%20Links/spelling.jpg
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Nickki Leung just doesn't get it. People view things differently and you can't force people to think and see things the way you do. You may have used the word "fraud" wrongly, but readers/posters in this forum can gauge/guess how you feel/view this case.
So after so much discussion on this point, what should have been the right word then (instead of fraud)?
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tpol
15 yrs ago
But we must thank Nikki for letting us know that this is going on.
I was at the post office the other day and in front of me was a Philipino lady with an envelope that seemed filled with a stack of documents.
It was addressed to the Canadian Consulate.
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I agree with tpol that Nikki was just trying to share her unlucky experience with us and letting people who hire helpers know that there are cases like these (my earlier post also stated that this same issue happened to my daughter). Everybody deals differently and Nikki finds it harder to accept which is OK and she was kind enough to take the time to write on this column to warn us or just to air out her feelings. No matter what, even if some of you don't agree with her, at least have the manner of not attacking her so fiercely.
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tpol
15 yrs ago
Furthermore, I am guessing but she was probably quite angry when posting it originally.
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i will finish my 3rd contract with my employer on sept 2010,,,,i am not planning to work in canada but i want an employer who doesnt have any small kids...anyone here who needs a helper by that time?
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I had a helper whome I paid to do a first aid course(she still scalded my boys leg in shower and didnt run cold water for 10 mins)hmm.Anyway after signing 2nd contract and having 3week holiday back in Philippines plus my hubby paid 2 year levy upfront,she came back with a different attitude.We found out that 2 weeks being back here she applied to a Canadian agencey via office here cost her maybe $20,000 plus had to pay own airfare etc.
She started lying,gave her notice Xmas day night,left her letter open on our paper on the stairs saying she was going back home to her daughter.We found out (via our computer she used )applying for Canadian citizenship etc.to have a job has a caregiver, a firstaide certificate is required(ironic).
When we confronted her she cried said she was sorry and that she would stay bhla,bhla,bhla.When push came to shove she left within a month of telling us leaving us in the lurch over Chinese Newyear.She even lied to our other helper her Auntie who got her the job.We treat her well,like family....I would not of held her back I understood she wanted a better life for her and her family,it was just the way she went about it all.
So do be aware Hong Kong is just a stepping stone for some people for the lands of the green and the free,good luck to them Karma will happen and bite them in the bum.
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@sarah jane im sorry to hear your experience
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You live and learn,take the good with the bad...Karma(still waiting to win lots of money)ha ,ha.With 2 sets of twin boys under 5 you need humour and 2 helpers for the sake of your sanity(which I must have lost a long time ago).
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tpol
15 yrs ago
wow both time you managed to get twins.
Are you going to try for a pair of girls?
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Too old and hubby had the snip :) got an older boy and girl,so 6 is enough for anyones body to go through thankyou.:)
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just a thought....
It is a fact that working as in Canada or elsewhere may seem to be lucrative, and finding work first in HK may be a stepping stone to attain that.
in the same manner, mainlanders find it ideal to work in Hong Kong for some reason or another example because they have family here. I would think that they would have "less" desire to migrate to Canada as their filipino or indonesian counterparts would have.
So if mainlanders were allowed to HK to work as domestic helpers, then the chances of domestic help abandoning their posts to pursue better opportunities in other parts of the world within a short period of time is minimal .
Wouldn't employers then find mainlanders a better choice to hire if they knew their helper wasn't using them as a catapult to elsewhere?
Here's my two cents, and i know it is going to open a can of worms
There is nothing wrong with anyone or anybody wanting to improve themselves and or to move on to other better paying jobs and opportunities.
HOWEVER, there is a very very very thin line between that and people finding an opportunity to use someone as a stepping stone
What I see is that the OP's helper wasn't serious about her job, she just used the opportunity to work in Hong KOng so that her application to work in Canada would be processed easier.
Here's the facts from the OP
She finished her 2nd contract
She worked for the OP for 4 months.
She resigned at 4 months
I bet ya that she was already planning to move to Canada before the 3rd contract (the one with the OP). but this meant that she would have to go home after the 2nd contract if she didn't find another employer in HK... thereby jeopardizing her chances of successfully applying to Canada.
Again as I said, there is nothing wrong with having ambition to work for better opportunities elsewhere. I think it was just the execution and how the helper used the 3rd contract to reach that goal that made the OP "mad".
my two cents as i said.
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And in a territory where a huge proportion of the population wait until they get their 13 month bonus before leaving for other jobs........? Not mentioned.
Or the bankers who use one company to get to another. Not mentioned.
This is a situation that happens everyday here, and let's be honest the leaving after the 13 month bonus one is the most dishonest of the lot.
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maxis
15 yrs ago
The "13th month scam" is disgusting and greed at its worst.
It is not the same as the DH trying to get to Canada - it is a massive inconenience to the employer compared with the perpetrator getting a lousy extra month salary.
we dont give the 13 month bonus to stop this behaviour
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Hi WizBang, Maxix and Evildeeds, You are all absolutely correct, that is what Nicky tried to explain in her original post, and she appears to have been very kind to her helper, even though her helper did not appear to have too much to do!
I would go as far to say her helper had a very cushy life there, so I can well understand why Nicky was so upset, many other people would be furious, and would not be as kind as Nicky has been.
You mention this '13th month scam" for a bonus, this is the first I have heard of that, are employers expected to pay some kind of bonus after 13 months?, could somebody, please explain. Thanks
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The 13th month is called the double pay paid out by companies every year end near Christmas or the Chinese New Year to the staff after working the whole year with the same company. Some will be paid on pro-rata basis depending on the months worked which I think is fair.
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In the old days, we paid amahs double pay too but not with the FDH as the monies went to their tickets and their entitled paid-for holidays. My understanding only.
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Thankyou for explaining that
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As mentioned, any bonuses are entirely at the discretion of the employer. Of course, if your helper has done a great job padding the lai see is not a bad thing to do.
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Oh Ricky! Do you think any of these girls would clarify the truth before signing a contract, I don't think so, If they want a job they will say eg. they like kids?, like dogs and cats?, and they are honest and hardworking ??? and Yes Sir or Madam to any questions you ask, with a big smile on their faces. It is only when you employ them, you will find out to the contrary. I am not saying they are all like that, but some of them are practiced liars. I would recommend not having a helper if you don't really need one, just get legal part-timers, at least you don't have to have them in your home 24/7.
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nickki,
i didn't read all the posts, but certainly it stinks to invest time in a helper and then know that behind your back she was planning to leave. it sounds like you really tried to make it work. i get attached to people too and hire them with the intention of keeping one person for at least 2 years.
She is allowed to leave and everyone understands why she would, but I also think it's normal to feel a bit tired at the prospect of investing your time, money and emotions in a new helper. If you hadn't been attached emotionally, I'm sure it would've been easier. I find it hard to balance things out. I'm female. Helpers are female. I want to be reasonable but there are fine lines which get crossed if your helper is your best confidante. Still, it's hard not to speak to a kind person in your home when you are stressed out, but a little distance can be good too. I've had helpers who want to speak to me all day long about personal things like when they have their periods and if their children are passing or failing, etc. Other helpers don't say 2 words. Find someone who you like and who has the style you are looking for and the work ethic and follow your head and heart. I hope it works out better for you next time.
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Nicky,
You publicly asked for advice. Island Hopper is trying to help you even if you don't like what he says.
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If the original intension is to take advantage of a HK employer in order to obtain a Canadian work visa here in HK, it IS a fraud against HK law, since the DH has no intension of honoring the two-year contract in the first place.
No one should blame DHs for wanting a better life or higher pay or respect they deserve. On the other hand, we expats can be so self-righteous about all this. Just imagine how you would behave if this were happening in the US, UK, Australia, etc, etc.
We recently ideintified a DH candidate. We paid for her health check, fees the Philippine Consulate charges for reviewing the contract. We had met her several times for interview, paperwork, etc. And each time we remibursed her for bus fare, etc. We offered a salary way above the minimum and would give her a regular bedroom (not one of those closet spaces). Alas, she bailed on us the last munite without the courtesy of telling us why. We can only guess. We're not angry but certainly disappointed. My wife got concerned about her wellbeing after many failed attempts to reach her. The DH would turn off her phone or reject a call from us. Such is reality. Let's not be judgemental but be happy that there are still many foreign DHs who are willing to work for a pittance, oftern not seeing their young childre for a long while and missing many important dates in the family.
For those fellow posters who sound like DHs, would you pls make a fair disclosure? I think your perpectives are important to an open and enlightened discussion of the DH situation in HK.
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How in hell is that fraud? People have the right to sell their labour and they have to learn to work around the laws. Perhaps HK could pay helpers better…Philippines is poor. How can u blame them for looking for the best job? And notice, Canada isn't racist. They can bring their family, etc…you said that like you feel Filipinas shouldnt be treated as human beings. Of course, they should come over, be your slaves and go back to their homes when you want rid of them. Its disgraceful the way HK doesn't let them stay. But then, a survey just found its the most racist place in the world...
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Wow, this thread is ages ago. I think it's being resurrected because of the increasing numbers of domestic helpers changing their minds and resigning lately.
It isn't fraud but I think the OP feels that way because it isn't cheap when a helper resigns after only a few months of employment. You pay so much to hire her and then when she resigns you have to pay for her airfare and agent fees again to hire a new one. Then if you factor in no pay leave and a part timer, it really adds up. You understand about opportunities but it's also disappointing for the employers especially local ones who aren't on an expat package and can't afford all these extras. The OP is lucky because she's alone. Lots of employers hire helpers because they need to work to support their kids. A lot of working mothers are left hanging when the helpers give 1 month's notice and it takes at least 2.5 months for a new helper to come. I love my current helper but she's leaving in two weeks. I have to take emergency leave and I've only just got back to work after my 10 weeks maternity leave. I still treat her nice and I still thank her every night but my heart aches.
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I found this website just today and was looking for a domestic helper when I stumbled upon this chain message going back 6 years ago. I must say HK employers are at the mercy of those who have the intention to cheat their employers. I had a very capable maid, who, as I learnt much late, failed in her application for being a domestic helper in Canada while she was in the Philippines before her coming to HK. She decided to come to HK to process her re-application, and of course I had no idea. I was very good to her, determined to train her to be a good cook, sending her to a cooking class at Towngas at my own expense. Then one day she told me that her daughter was applying for a scholarship and she would need my recommendation letter for the mother. So I did a beautiful letter for her. As it turned out, the letter was to be shown at the Canadian Consulate in HK. All that cheating under the table without my knowing it, and sure enough, before the contract was up, her application was accepted by Canada and out she went!!! I felt so much like a fool having done so much for her without realizing that I was adding more and more value to her application to Canada while accelerating the death of my own contract with her. I felt very much used, and you can choose to call this fraud or otherwise.
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DURACELL,
Are you saying that as long as a person is moving on and up in life any actions they take at work are morally and ethically acceptable? Where is the line drawn ie as long as it is not illegal is it OK, no matter the impact on others, provided the person is moving on and up?
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here here Greene King!
Don't know what your point is Duracell. Laiwaiye has just shared a personal story where she has been betrayed by a helper she invested training in, was asked to do something nice for her daughter, and was disappointed to learn that she had been lied to. Furthermore she is out the money she has paid for the training and the expense of replacing her unexpectedly. Undoubtably her ex maid is a smart maid but she is obviously a versed liar as well and ahppy to do whatever it takes to get her to the next level. That seems to be condoned by you. Well each to their own.
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Hi! I think your problem is a matter of attitude and chemistry. No matter how luxurious you provided, if she has an ambition in life and you cannot stop her. The best solution is to let her go and be happy for the success of your housekeeper. I can say that it is a matter of attitude because you are complaining of your helpless situation. I had an experience that I wanna share that we can say that its a matter of attitude. I was once a housekeeper in europe, free back and forth ticket from philippines, free education, free hospitalization when i arrived there. My employer told me that I am the 15th housekeeper on that year. They even experienced a housekeeper from russia that stayed only 3 days and just go. I am the only housekeeper that last for 1 yr and they want me to stay for 2 years. And i said I still have a lot of friends, brothers and sister who would like to come in this country and they said, "we love you, but if you're happy to find another employer, then we will make sure that you can find satisfaction on your next employer. We will drive you to make sure that you are safe. In case you don't like your second employer you can come back to us." We had breakfast together with their two sons and daughter. We still communicate occasionally until after 10 yrs of leaving from them. I miss them. They took my brothers and even helped them to settle to other countries. All I can say is please don't be selfish. I also remember they said that they are lucky that they were born in europe, because if it happens that the situation was reversed, they feel pity with themselves. I hope you understand what I mean and if you are a God fearing person, you will not complain, instead you will help without complaining. Be happy that you become an instrument by God to help a person to succeed.
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