How much to pay and how much to expect?

We are new to the concept of having a DH as it is not normal for our culture (New Zealand) to have a live in maid.....


We are expecting a baby in July and will both be returning to full time work in September. Hence why a DH is needed. I have heard that it is cheaper to have your helper 'live in' rather than pay for the accomodation for them elsewhere. Is this correct?


Secondly, what should we expect to pay? The duties we expect are that she helps briefly in the morning (breakfast, preparing lunches) before we leave for work at 8am. He main task throug the day would be to care for a new born baby and a small amount of housework (laundry, keeping things clean and tidy). At 3pm she can bring the baby to us at work and return home to prepare dinner. We would not expect her to care for the child in any way when we are home at 4.30. After dinner her day would be finished.


We will also have dog that would need to be walked afew times a day.


Another point to make is that we are thinking of offering her the weekends off? What are your thoughts on this? Finish at 4.30pm Friday and beginning again on Monday morning. Would this appeal to a helper?


We consider ourselves to be a very friendly family to work for. We would not expect her to work like a dog and do job that we wouldn't do.


Also, our apartment has what was described to us as 'maids living quarters'. Presently it has a single bed in it with some storage space. It is approx 80sq f - is this actually acceptable for her to live in?

to get you started - you can read the following info


http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/faq_fdh.htm


a more practical guide can be found on the labor dept website

http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/FDHguide.pdf

I would recommend buying the book "Hiring and Managing Domestic Help", which goes through all this stuff and much more.



To answer your questions:


"Hence why a DH is needed. I have heard that it is cheaper to have your helper 'live in' rather than pay for the accomodation for them elsewhere. Is this correct?"


More accurately, a foreign domestic helper must by law live in your residence. Disregarding legalities, it is typically cheaper to have one live in anyway.



Minimum wage is currently $3590 plus a 770 food allowance (or you can provide food). Then you have helper insurance (about 1500 for two years), and you must pay for the trip from her residence to yours and back at the beginning/end of the contract. Finally, you have ancillary costs like providing a bed and so forth.



"Another point to make is that we are thinking of offering her the weekends off? What are your thoughts on this? Finish at 4.30pm Friday and beginning again on Monday morning. Would this appeal to a helper? "


Yes it would. However I suggest you start with the normal 6 day work week, and perhaps offer that after a couple of months. You can always give her some Saturdays off anyway on a "case by case basis". You don't want too many candidates who are only attracted to you for the cushy hours.


I'll make a personal reflection and say that we find Saturdays quite nice with a helper. Don't deny yourself this luxury without at least trying it.



"We would not expect her to work like a dog and do job that we wouldn't do. "


Helpers expect to work hard. If you respect them and treat them like a human being there are normally no big issues. As mentioned, don't be too "soft" in the beginning or you'll get candidates who want to take you for a ride. This does not mean being mean or having her work excessive hours, but there is no need to feel bad about her working for you. It is her job.


Most importantly, be clear in your requirements and expect her to do her best while allowing her the leeway to figure things out. Be respectful and generous, but expect hard work from her. Just like any employer would. Do not make the mistake of being to familial in the beginning. This is an employer-employee relationship. She is not a house guest.



"Also, our apartment has what was described to us as 'maids living quarters'. Presently it has a single bed in it with some storage space. It is approx 80sq f - is this actually acceptable for her to live in?"


Believe it or not, that is pretty large for a maid's room. Most are 30-40 sq.ft. The law states that they don't even need a room, in fact, just a "private space". If you furnish that room decently, most helpers will find it more than they would expect. It may seem small to you but many helpers have never had their own room, let alone large, before they came to Hong Kong. They come from what Westerners would consider very poor backgrounds.

If you employ a foreign domestic helper, they can only be live in, it would be a wise thing to look at the above websites Wiz Bang Has provided you with.

There is also a hand book you can buy, it is called a helper guide ( I thinK!), and is available at Dymocks.

As you are new to employing a helper, ask around friends for recommendations, maybe an employer trying to find their helper a new employer because they are leaving HK.Preferably an employer who can give you a verbal reference, as written ones are not always that reliable, they could be written by anybody.

I would advise you not to rush into finding a helper, because you want to be absolutely sure they are going to be able to manage a new born baby, and the right sort of personality you like to have sharing your home.

There is a recommended minimum wage, plus extra for food allowance if they don't eat your food. Paying them either minimum wage or just over is a good start point, you can always reveiw the monthly wage after a few months if you like, depending on their performance. Always pay wages/food allowance directly into a bank account, avoids any dispute.

Remember the helper is your employee, not a friend, so manage that from the start, and be specific on 'house rules'. Explain to the helper how you would like things done, and show her if necessary.

A helper is normally allowed one full 24hr period off per week, mostly Sundays, if you start to give Saturdays as a 'norm' from the beginning, then in future times when you might need her for some reason, there is the possibility she might complain, as she will think she entitled to all Saturdays off, also she may think it is OK to find herself part time work if the employer doesn't need her, and it would be illegal for her to do this, with big fines.

As you also have a dog, make sure the helper really likes dogs, and can handle it, as when you go on vacation you may want to leave the helper in charge of the dog and house.

The employer pays the helpers airfare one way, into HK at the start of the contract, also the processing and visa fees, but an agency can also do this for you-helps with the mounds of paper work!, Keep all the receipts you pay out in a safe place, the employer is also responsible for the one way air fare and door to door travel expenses at the end of a 2 year contract. The new helper is allowed 7 days holiday per year worked, plus public holidays off, a lot of helpers like to save the 7 days to add at the end of contract, the employer is not responsible for any other air fares home during the contract. The employer is also responsible for the medical care of the helper should she fall ill or have an accident, although a medical is not always obligatory, for the peace of mind of the employer and helper, knowing they are fit, not pregnant and disease free is helpful, medicals and medical insurance are best done before the final signing of contract, then if there is a bad problem you are not tied to anything.

It really is best to know the 'rules' of employement well, and be a fair but firm employer from the start.

"There is also a hand book you can buy, it is called a helper guide ( I thinK!), and is available at Dymocks."


Just to clarify, there are actually two books but they have different target markets. One is "Hiring and Managing Domestic Help", which is a handbook for employers. It is pink and white and can be found at most bookstores, plus CitySuper and so forth. The other is "The Helper's Helper" which is a handbook for helpers. I have only seen it in a couple of places.


"The employer pays the helpers airfare one way, into HK at the start of the contract, "


Technically the employer pays door-to-door, not just airfare, including food allowance during the trip. And it is both at the start and at the end of each contract.

I suggest that you think of what you really want to have this helper do for your family. Is it child minding, cooking, cleaning or all of it?

Have a clear idea of what you want makes it easier to find what you are looking for.

Rules for employment are clearly stated on the contract as well as the salary which is set by the Govt. right now it is $3580 per month.

Good luck

PS I also suggest the book

I would chime in, start with the minimum and have the helper 'earn' her extra days off after a couple of months and a higher salary. If you advertise that you'll pay way above the minimum, with all weekend off, shortish days, you may not be attracting the best of the talent pool....and in your situation with a new baby due in the fold, it is more important that you attract a hard working, honest helper who is willing to put in the elbow grease to prove to you that she should be justly rewarded. Believe me the stress of being over generous at the beginning and not setting clear boundaries/expectations is really stressful for you as the employer as well as presumably your helper!

Just a thought! it normally takes 6-8 weeks to process a new helper, before she can start work for you. Good luck with it all.

Please learn from our mistakes. We hired a full time helper when I was quite pregnant with our 2nd child and were adamant that we would be the best employers ever.....we were taken for a ride. We were much too nice and lenient from the outset and it caused us so much stress you would not believe. Our 2nd helper we hired has been also treated really well but we started her with a rather basic salary and no really impressive perks and within a few months were giving her long weekends off (Ramadan for example as she's Indonesian) and 2 weeks paid holiday after 7 months. She's really happy with everything we give her and any bonus we give her is treated as exactly that....not a right!



Trawl through some old posts here and you'll see some common areas that catch up naive and generous new employers with the best intentions at heart. Good luck!

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR....


4000 Dollars, don't get you A LOT in Hong Kong. So stop bitching about your employees.


Start fighting for their human rights instead. And their right to be treated with same respect as any other expats in Hong Kong. And at least to be able to take up residency after 7 years working in Hong Kong.


DH's are people, just like everyone else.

bardur, your comments in this and other topics. are not very helpful. Besides which, they are not specifically relevant to the topics. All you seem to want to do is rant about what you see as unfair treatment.


Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but coming in on a forum shouting and insulting is not the best approach.

Hmm, Guess I was in the wrong topic when this was posted! LOL, but still I stand by what I wrote.

Never the less, I fully agree with Susie1, this is strictly a employment, like any other. And should be treated the same way.

I agree with that. Helpers are first of all employees and should be treated as such.

I think its a two way street. There are good employers and there a good employees. There are bad employers and there are bad employees. The unfortunate circumstances is when there are good employers and bad employees or vice versa.


The DH's generally prefer to go with expats because they have a tendancy to treat them a bit more humane than the Chinese counterparts who tend to look down on them, and are frankly rather cruel.


I do think that even the 'good employers' at times forget that these poor girls are only human and really expect a ridiculous amount to be done for such a small amount of money. (I'm not slotting anyone into this in this forum...just stating my own observation) ....


I read one ad by an employer that stated: Part time helper wanted - Work 9am-7pm Monday - Friday and 4-5 hours on Saturday. I had to send her a msg asking if she is sure she meant Part time when stating 55 hours/week. Yes, it may not be the 16 hours a day some of these poor girls work, but I think many employers forget where they came from and that they themselves cannot do that week after week....so why have that expectation of others?


I see so much complaining going on at times about helpers and some are warranted, but others...I think we need to step back and take a look at what kind of mistakes would we be doing if we are working from 6:30am to 9pm six days a week or whatever hours the helper is working.


So I applaud any employer that treats these girls like family, rewards them generously and genuinely cares for them, and will help them to better their lives if possible, cause I can tell you personally that the good ones love and respect their employers and feel like they are family to them.


Anyhow...I'm getting way off topic....it was just an interesting sub-topic.