Posted by
ladyfrog
20 yrs ago
I'm looking for a helper and I've contacted one that seems to be really nice (found on this website). I've talked with her over the phone and I have a very good impression. We're going to meet this week-end.
I've also talked to her employers (westerners) and have asked them why they do not renew her contract.They responded that they want some "change" after 6 years with this helper. They say she's fantastic but honestly, would you get rid of your helper if she's that great ???
It worries me a bit.... Should I be careful ?? What do you think ?
Thanks in advance.
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blcwc
20 yrs ago
Don't know about these particular employers, but many employers do not continue after 6 years because that's when the long-service bonus starts to kick in. I can't remember the formula, but according to labour laws,employers have to pay a significant amount of extra pay at the end of each contract after 6 years of service by the same helper, so even the good ones do not get their contracts renewed.
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blcwc, thanks very much for this information that I didn't know. It gives me hope she's really good !
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I agreed with blcwc as well. The long service bonus is quite costly....
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Ladyfrog,
I think that Mighty and blcw are right-but, just in case, I would call the employers again and ask if there is anything negative you should know before you hire their helper. Sometimes employers (especially Western) are anxious to find a maid a new job and ease their guilt so they may not be completely forthcoming about why they are not renewing the contract. It might ease your mind to talk to them one more time, since this is a big decision and I think you just went through the termination process, right?
Hope she works out though!!!!
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Hello all,
I had 2 interviews this morning, 1 didn't show up (and didn't even call) and the other one was there with her sister during the whole interview. And when I asked her if she had babies, she replied "not, not yet"... She wants to go back to the Philippines in June and I'm scared she'll come back pregnant to be honest !
So I'm still with my sour-puss helper..... Can't fire her now as I have family visiting for 2 weeks... She seems to try to behave better but I think I'll still look for someone else as her character won't change.
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It's a headache, isn't it? What happened to the helper you interviewed before? You deserve to find someone great.
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blcwc
20 yrs ago
ladyfrog, as you've still got a helper at the moment, (and it's already been 3 weeks since you wrote about looking for someone new), my recommendation is to hire someone directly from out of Hong Kong. I've written several posts on the other threads about the advantages of going this route, although it is still a pot-luck deal, as we don't know anything about them and have no chance for a face-to-face interview (agencies do oblige if you insist on a phone interview, although, once again, you don't know for sure who the other party is on the line, whether she's really the candidate or the agent!). Personally, I'm just sick and tired of all the helpers who are available in HK. They are such a c*cky, arrogant bunch of fusspots, and 'enquirer' from the other thread was right - the ones on this website seem the worst! Almost all agencies provide a 2-year satisfaction guarantee, ie. if you're not fully satisfied with the helper, you can get a replacement free of charge from the agency (just cost you a single journey plane ticket to send her home) so that's incentive enough for the helper to perform to expectation as they know what will happen if they don't.
Personally, I wouldn't employ anyone who creates any kind of doubt, no matter how small, as these niggling doubts tend to get bigger later on. My motto is to err on the side of caution.
Have you phoned her employers once more? Are you still going to go ahead with her? Good luck, whatever you decide to do. In the meantime, just don't be too nice to sourpuss. I've learned that in Asia, one really has to do what the Asians do. In a perverted sort of way, helpers tend to have more respect for employers who keep a distance and treat them like scum as that's what they expect from their employers. Try to be friendly to them ? Well, you're either taken advantaged of, or abused, as they don't know how to behave when there are no clear boundaries between this employer-employee relationship. I'm a lot less judgemental now towards the local Chinese employers who all seem to keep their helpers on a tight leash - that's the only way that seems to work for a vast majority of these helpers as that's the only culture they know. They don't like it, but they tow the line. It's such a sad society, where personal integrity and individual self-control seem so sorely lacking. Control has to be externally imposed upon them or you'll get nowhere with any of them.
I know I've made a lot of blanket statements, and realise that there are those odd exceptions scattered over HK, but generally they're still employed and are not so readily available. But I still stand by my observations about Asian society / culture on the whole being a very hierarchical society. As an employer, you're 'higher' than the maid, so they expect you to behave as an employer would. Being friendly with them and treating them as your friend or family member confuses this relationship and they'll not always treat you as their 'boss', which is when conflicts arise. Sorry to sound so preachy. I didn't see things like this 6 years ago, and have come a long way since then.
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Amyvalentine, I've interviewed a nice helper but she's a bit too old and I want to see several before to choose.
blcwc, I can't hire someone I don't meet. It's too important for me.
I'm in contact with another helper who is working for a chineese family in the NT (for 4 years) and they don't want to increase her so they let her go (is that the true reason ??????). She sounds very nice and I begin to think like you do, Chinese people know better how to handle their maids because they don't try to become "friends" with them. So maybe this helper knows how it works... Hopefully.... I'll meet her next Sunday.
Also, no helper can do interviews during the week which is a pain because it's taking a lot of time !
But my decision is taken, I'll definitively terminate my current helper. She just doesn't want to look after my baby. She's very good for the house and an excellent cook but when it comes to playing with the baby..... I can't stand it anylonger.
So I'll continue my holly quest ;-)
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Ladyfrog: good for you for making the decision to terminate your cranky helper. Good luck finding someone else!
blcwc: once again, you make some excellent points. I have experienced exactly what you've described with the helper we have decided to terminate: we were too lenient and friendly, and now she takes advantage of this. However, I still don't want to take on the role of being a parent or a dictator. I have friends who have found helpers that they trust, are reliable, straightforward, and love children. They do exist, though granted, some of these were hired from Singapore.
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ladyfrog - if you like you can log onto www.jobuzz.com - I used this company along with a number of our friends while we were living in Singapore to hire our helpers - that is if ou want to get someone from Singapore. I myself am thinking this seems to be a better route as I'm having no luck here in HK. But I do know the feeling of not being able to hire someone without meeting them first.
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Archana, thanks but I definitively want to meet the girl before to hire her.
I should have interviewed a helper this morning but she didn't show up, nor phoned.... I'm getting really concerned how I will manage this issue... And I'm loosing so much time.... :-(
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I'm in the same situation as you ladyfrog. I have spent many a day waiting endlessly for helpers to show up for interviews. I can't understand what is it with helpers in HK. I never once encoutered any such problems with helpers in Singapore - the people the seem so much nicer. I'm wondering whether I'll ever find a suitable person. Just finished interviewing a lady who had worked with the same family for 7 years. She seemed quite nice, except my 9 yr old daughter will be calling me non-stop if I ever have to leave the kids alone with the helper. She just wouldn't have a clue what to do to keep the kids entertained. I'm really starting to give up on this whole issue!!!
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Archana, I have the same problem with my helper, she just doesn't want to "entertain" my little boy. She just sits and stares at the wall while he plays.... Not even looking at him ! I'm quite depressed about this problem and it seems I can't find anyone to replace her, so I have to keep her but I can't stand her anylonger :-(
Goodluck and we'll see who finds 1st then ;-)
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I so agree with kags - I think we really should learn how to deal with our helpers from the chinese!!!! Goodluck to you ladyfrog & kags
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Kags, I'm pretty sure I've also interviewed the girl you're talking about !!! Her name is Myriam isn't it ? I liked her too but she told me the same day that she already found an employer.....
I'm also looking for someone who has worked for a chinese family as they seem to be much less fussy !
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Oh my gosh! I interviewed someone on Sunday who seemed wonderful, and then when we told her it would work for us, she asked if there was a phone (with separate line)and television cable in the room. At the time, I was a little taken aback with the phone question, and then when I called her employer it turned out, this has been a huge issue since she got her own phone line in her room!
This is what I hinted at in another thread: Sometimes the helpers who have not worked exclusively for Western families are actually more adaptable. And of course I would be happy to provide phone, TV and other treats if the work merits these rewards.
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blcwc
20 yrs ago
My helper is finally arriving today !!!!! Hooray, hooray, hooray! We've been through all of the above nasty experiences with trying to find someone from within HK, and eventually gave up before we murdered any one of them, and went to an agency to employ an Indonesian. We deliberately chose someone who had worked for a number of years in Malaysia, where they work in virtual slavery, under atrocious conditions. We hope that she will at least be happy and appreciate our treating her like a normal human being instead of complaining about lack of amenities. Well, I'm picking her up after work today, so all fingers crossed that this will work out!
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That's great news, blcwc!
How long did you need to wait for her, and how difficult/costly was it? How old is your helper? (I am having a bad experience with a young one!)
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blcwc, please let us know how it goes with your helper. What's the agency name ?
I'm starting to think about using an agency as I really can't find anyone through the web or even through friends...
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Kags, as for Myriam, I asked her if she had children and she said "no, not yet" ! Maybe her June holidays are at high risks !!!!
When does your helper start working for you ?
I'm looking at the same profiles now and hopefully will find someone good :-)
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Amyvalentine - I would be very careful about giving treats to your helper - I have found that they tend to not appreciate but take it more for granted. I know how we feel about treating them right, but the reason that the Chinese manage to keep their helpers under control is that they kepp them on a straight & narrow path. I know my last helper in S'pore used to be continuously on the phone, this was because when I saw her do it in front of me I didn't object to it, after that it was too late to do too much about it anyway. I must say though she was very good in every other respect so I didnt want to worry too much about the few small issues there were.
blcwc, good for you - hope your helper works out well!!!
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blcwc
20 yrs ago
Thanks, Amyvalentine, kags, ladyfrog, Archana, for your good wishes (boy, do I need them!). I went to the agency for the first time on Saturday 22nd Jan, and signed this helper up. The Immigration dept rang me last Saturday (5th) to say it's been approved and she flew out to HK yesterday, so the whole process took exactly 6 weeks. The agent was excellent and the total cost was only $500 as I chose the cheapest package which only covered the costs of getting her here, processing her HKID and basic training upon arrival in HK (3 days). I have to do the medical thing on my own and get my own insurance, but that's fine with me as I prefer to send her to my own doctor (don't trust them agency doctors) and I already have an insurance policy taken out for the maid I terminated a few months ago, so I just have to get that transferred to this new one. This is one of the few agencies that offers the option of a comprehensive package or a 'no-frills' one which suits us a lot more.
Kags, I hope things work out this time round, and that you don't have to wait too long for the visa to come through.
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MC
20 yrs ago
My maid has been with me for 6 yrs. She is now 48. I went through everything that were mentioned in the above posts and I'd like to share with you the following:
1. no perfect choice. the older ones are usually reliable and know how to "take care" of children. The younger ones can play with the kids but in general are not so good at other things. I had 2 helpers at one point, one old and one young, worked out great. I let my young one go eventually as she started dating and eventually got pregnant (after I fired her).
2. Never hire anyone who worked for Western families. (I am Chinese).
3. Also "talk" to the employer. Many of the helpers pay to have someone write a good recommendation letter.
4. try to get someone whose family is poor so the person really needs the money as she tends to work harder.
Well, it is so so so difficult.
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man...some of these comments make me squirm
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I agree with Gandalf about looking at the big picture & if my helper walks thru fire for my kids, then I'd pretty much tolerate anything. But if she's leaving kids at the park & going grocery shopping then I seriously wonder what she'd do if she had other stuff to take care of instead of my kids.
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wz
20 yrs ago
It's late, but I couldn't help to say something as I finally found a right place to learn and talk today.
I'm not a local Chinese, nor a western. I'm from Beijing, studied and worked a few years in the western countries. Came hk with my husband and my 7-mth-old daughter in 2002. I was never never able to imagine the beginning life with my ex-philipino helper is the biggest nightmare in my life.
Many of my problems are exactly the same as what you guys mentions above. I didn't like to accept a 'stranger' live at my home day and night at the beginning. After I knew it's the 'main' life style in hk, I tried to treat my ex-helper friendly and tried to count her as a family member, becasue that's my education which is everyone's equil, everyone should get the same respect, no masters and no slaves in the world today. However, the outcome is obvious as you all know-- my helper is out of control. Anyway, after I desparately struggled for more than 1 year(it almost hurt my marriage -- very stupid, isn't it.), I finally decided to fire the Philipino helper and no matter what I will find a new one by myself. (My husband recruited her just before I landed)
It took me 4 mth to get my current helper, a 24-yr-old Indonesia girl (I'll tell her stories later). I here want to share some interesting experience about recruiting a helper in hk.
First, hiring a helper is kind of a gambling. It's hard to say which choice is the best. Age? I saw very good young helpers and old helpers, as well as very bad young helpers and old helpers; Meet in person before you hire them? I saw very good and bad helpers recruited out of hk, as well as very good and bad ones recruited locally. Hiring someone who has experience in western families or Chinese families? I also saw good and bad from both. I was told not to use any helper from X'pat families because most of them are 'spoiled', but I'm afraid of the helpers from local Chinese families too, because they will bring the different values which they are irrigated by the local culture to your families. Sometimes it's hard to accept. (By the way I would by no means want to offend anyone.) Nationalities? I saw good and bad Philipinos as well as Indonesia. Agents? the same, good and bad from popular agnets as well as small agnets. Through friends? the same...actually my Philipo helper recommanded by a friend. You know we even have to feel a little sorry to our friend at the end when we fired the helper.
So, I finally decided to try my luck kind of like "my mother told me to pick you up" -- You know it's very time and energy comsuming to hunt a "right" helper. OK, frankly say I have a few basic rules: 1. I must talk to the references. I must know she doesn't have very bad records, such as: abuse bb, stealing, refuse to work, can not understand English (which we use to communicate with our helper)...2. An Indonesia girl with Singopore work experience. This advice from friends, and I do know a girl like that is very good. By the way, I would like to try a girl with 4-year local work experience if I don't have so much time to train her next time. You will see trainig a new hand is such a tough work. 3. I picked up a cheap agent. If it's a gambling by all means, why don't take a cheaper one. Anyway, they do provided OK services.
Maybe you've been a little tired to read this long msg. I'm so sorry if so because I just have too much to say. I still have the stories of my new Indonesia helper to tell, but it's too late. I'll tell you more interesting things next time.
good night (moring)
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wz
20 yrs ago
My new helper doesn't cook well, doesn't know how to dress my baby in winter, doesnt' speak English well...if all of these are not big problems to me, lying and "quite" really annoy me. From time to time, she lies a little bit, most of time, for veiling her mistakes. However, she doesn't know I'm smarter than she thought. I can find out right away that she's lying. I dont' know how I can trust her if she keeps telling lies. I know almost all helpers lie more or less from time to time. I really want to know how their employers get along with them.
The other problem is she seems never have any questions. She is just so "obedient" and so quite. No matter what you say, she all the time watches the floor and repeats the only word "yes, yes...", but right after she just makes the same mistakes again and again. It's really frustrating sometimes, because I never know whether she's really listening to me or not???!!!
By the way, I heard all the laws here protect the helpers, but none of them protect the employers. I just don't understand why?
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blcwc
20 yrs ago
wz, referring to your question / lamentation about not having laws that protect employers, well, it's because employers can terminate a helper's contract at any time. We don't even need to provide a reason; just a letter to Immigration, with a copy to the helper, and that's the end of their job. That's why.
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Hi all,
Just wanted to tell you that I still haven't found the new helper.... Many girls just don't show up at the interviews. I had 2 interviews on Sunday and nobody showed up !!! So I'm still with my current helper and haven't fired her... She's leaving to the Philippines at the end of the week for 17 days of holidays.... I'll continue to look for someone else but I begin to wonder if I'll ever manage it !!!
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blcwc
20 yrs ago
ladyfrog, how on earth did your helper get 17 days of holidays?????? How long has she been with you? To have that number of holidays, she must've been working for you for at least 10 years or more - is she taking you for a ride??
General message to all - my new helper, who started with us last Friday, is GREAT !!!!!! Well, she's pretty good so far, but I'm far too cynical to think that it will be like this the whole way through. She's from Indonesia, so right now, she's working without pay (have to repay loan sharks $3000 @ month for 7 months) and she's still too new to HK, so she's been fantastic. Her English is most limited, but she speaks 3 different dialects of Chinese! I finally realise why I slogged at school in Oz all those years ago, learning Indonesian! Pretty rusty, but we can get by with a bit of Indo, a bit of Cantonese, a bit of Putonghua and a very little bit of English. Her work attitude is excellent, and I've had to tell her to go to bed these past few days as she wasn't going to stop working! I'm really happy I made the move to go to an agency and got a new person directly from outside HK. Best move all year.
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blcwc, I'm SOOOOO jealous ;-) Well done !
my helper has been with us for 8 months only.... I know she shouldn't get that much holidays. We've been too passive...
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wz
20 yrs ago
blcwc, thanks for your reply. Helpers have the same right to terminate contacts at anytime. However, always we loss money no matter what, isn't it?
Also, good to hear your new helper's good. Actually, my new helper is the same as yours. sometimes I have to tell her a few times to go to bed at night. I even feel bit of guilty because she doesn't want holidays. She said she doen't knwo hk and has no money. She prefers to stay at home and help in the holidays even if I told her that I can't pay for the extra work.
As I know most of them are very good at the beginning because they need to work for 6-7 months to pay off the money to their agents. However, after they have their own money, things may change. Some will still be good, but some else may be totally different. They may be not showing us a really face at the moment. Anyway, I do hope your helper will stay constantly.
ladyfrog,
I think you may have to go to interview helpers at agent office on Sunday. I have a neighbour had the some problems as yours. She tried a couple of time to interview them at home, but they never appear. Good luck!
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