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helper room size / bed size

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ORIGINAL POST
Posted by Armadillo 9 yrs ago
Dear all,

I am about to have my first baby, so am looking at also getting my first full-time domestic helper.

I am concerned about the helper room size in my apartment. I know we can ask her to live-out but I also know this is illegal (even though many do it), and I also think with a newborn i might actually need more help but if it's really not nice for a helper to be in such a small room, I will of course find someone who is happy and willing to live out.
 
I don't feel comfortable with someone living in such a small room - however moving is not an option so I am not sure what to do.

The room is 2 meters by 1.2 meters. (78 inches by 47 inches). It makes is 2.38m2 or 25.66sf.

A standard bed is 190 x 90, so that will fit (with 10cm to spare at the end and only 30cm spare to the side. What size is your helper bed? it is unfair if it is much thinner than 90cm in your opinion?

The room is currently our utility room (and storage room) and there is no where else to put the items, so the bed would have to be built on top of side-by-side washing machine and dryer. Plus i think I would have to lower the ceiling (we have very high ceilings ) to be able to find somewhere to put our suitcases etc.

I would also have to have utilize the space for her belongings. there would be an 80cm space alongside the washing machine, but i guess that will have to hold all the laundry detergents and other stuff we already have in the room. The vacuum cleaner, ironing board, ladder etc also have no other home!

There is also 30cm (if we go for a 90cm wide bed) "spare" alongside the bed...

What do you think? If its done cleverly and considerately she can fit, but i wonder how humane that is! I would never have considered this EVER but i really don't know what to do.

Thank you for your input.

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COMMENTS
Armadillo 9 yrs ago
Hi,

I just wanted to add, i just phoned SEAHORSE who custom make any size mattress and they told me their "standard" small size helper bed is 30" x 72" which is 76cm x 183cm).

this gives more space in the room, however it still seems unfair to ask someone to live in a room so small...

For the record this is nothing to do with me having to pay for a helper to live out - im more than happy to do what is best for her.

Many thanks

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Wazzato 9 yrs ago
How would you like to sleep in a room like that?????????????????

There are plenty of Helpers who can and will live out.

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asiaXdreamy 9 yrs ago
Four foreign domestic helpers were arrested in dawn raids in a morning in January 2015 for breaking immigration laws by not living in their employers’ homes.
 
Three minibuses with at least 20 immigration officers descended on Ma Wan village around 7am, accusing the helpers of breaching employment legislation and their contracts.
 
One Hong Kong resident, understood to be an employer of one of the helpers, was also held for obstructing officers. Immigration officers arrested his wife in the afternoon.
An immigration spokesman confirmed that four foreign domestic helpers were detained for making a false representation to an immigration officer.
 
The government requirement that domestic helpers live in their employers’ homes was tightened in 2003 in a bid to boost job opportunities for local domestic helpers. Only those helpers who have been employed continuously by the same employer since before 2003 are allowed to live out. Under the same laws, employers are also targeted for letting helpers out of their duty of care.
 
The government insists the laws prevent abuse of helpers working part-time outside of their employment.
According to Hong Kong law, employers hire a domestic helper using a standard employment contract – a legally binding document. Clause 3 states that the migrant worker must reside in the employer’s residence with a stated address. The visa application states that the helper and employer must comply with clause 3.
 


Related link




Similar operations ongoing - link

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Armadillo 9 yrs ago
Thank you asiadreamy.

I think that my room is not big enough for someone to live in, and I also am not comfortable hiring an illegal live-out helper.

Do you know where I can find a legal live out helper?

Thank you

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Albury 9 yrs ago
Hi Armadillo,

If you do not want to break the law, there is no such thing as legal live out helper in Hong Kong. Fullstop.

I recently interviewed a helper who has finished 2 years of contract and I asked her the reason why she changes empolyer. She said the couple with new born are lovely people but she has no privacy sleeping in the sitting room sofa in a 500 square feet flat.

I am not mean, but the reality in HK are such small apartments, no storage space etc. The answer? Move to a bigger flat if you could afford the rent / price.

Good luck in HK.

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asiaXdreamy 9 yrs ago
Yeah the tragedy is from the unreasonable high housing cost, we certainly cannot excuse ourselves to break the laws by retionaling such act.

God bless

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Armadillo 9 yrs ago
thank you asiadreamy and albury,

i could really not every ask someone to live in those conditions. Its inhumane, thats my main problem, and no i do not want to break the law (even though many do). I cant believe that someone would ask another human to live on a sofa in a 500sf flat, it makes my little room look like luxury! Actually my home is 1600sf, but the helper provisions are unfortunately too small and just not a "home' for someone. If i am inviting someone to co-live with me, i would want them to feel at home. After all, i am essentially asking them to co-parent my child and i have respect for them. We only have 2 bedrooms in the space, so one is for us, and one is for the baby. I also would never ask the helper to live in the baby's room. Its just not fair.

I thought that there was a way to employ a live-out helper (who has PR), or a local (rather than foreign domestic helper) but it would cost a lot more money.

Am i wrong about this?

Unfortunately moving is not an option at this point.

Thank you again for your input and advice.

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asiaXdreamy 9 yrs ago
Yes , local certified nannies are also good option.

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Albury 9 yrs ago
Armadillo,

I really appreciate your caring nature. I agree with your point of view too. I have not employed a live in helper since arriving here in 2000 based on the same reason. I live in a 3 bedroom apartment while my children studied abroad. Yet I did not hire a helper because I do not have a helper's room. My children said they want to keep their rooms their personal space. The only choice I had was to employ part time local helper and cook. Yes, that cost me lots more than a FDH.

Put it this way, you help employ some locals.

Good luck

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Mac-010 9 yrs ago
Its small; but its a room to sleep in.
Perhaps it can be made to work with aircon, Fan, and some lighting.
There are beds that can fold down from wall (single) that would free up space at day, and you can wall mount a TV.

OK; its not big, but better then sleeping on sofa in living room.

We don't have that space available so use outside boarding; no other option.

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Greene King 9 yrs ago
AEMADILLO,

Just a couple points to add:

-most FDH who are employed to look after a new born I believe would expect to sleep in the same room as the baby.
-a 1600 sq ft flat with only two bedrooms is very unusual, most 850 sq ft flats have two or three bedrooms -'family' flats are being built in HK of 400 or so sq ft (parents, one kid)

Not sure where you are from or how long you have been here, but I bet HK is not like your home! Things are sometimes different here.

Hope you find the solution you are looking for, I am sure you will.

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Armadillo 9 yrs ago
Greene king, and Mac

thank you for you input.

Mac - yes it is a room, and honesty I have seen smaller but it doesn't make me feel comfortable with it.

Greene king, I've lived here 10 years actually and the reason why my apartment is unusual is because I bought it in 2006 and fully renovated it to my needs at the time. So I knocked out all the bedrooms and reconfigured the apartment. Hong Kong is definitely my home now :) I hear what you are saying about "normal" living conditions, but it doesn't make me want to make a helper live in my tiny room.

There were maids quarters when I bought it, but I decided to make a big kitchen instead: I do have a "large" utility room, which would be possible as I said to make into a maids room but really it would be horrible for her.

With regards to the bedrooms, I did the same. I had more but I knocked them out and moved everything around.., of course this is my fault because I made the flat like this, but for the past 10 years it's been perfect for us.

I could change the flat again but it would cost me at lot of money... So that's why I'm trying to work out how to employ a local or PR helper.

It's a sad situation to be in that I have no desire to break the law, and I would have no problem paying more to hire a local or anyone qualified but it doesn't seem possible.

I think that maybe the helper might spend a night or so in with the newborn to look after her but it wouldn't he a permanent bedroom for her... (Well it shouldn't)

So it's either a case that I break the law, or I home a lady in essentially a large cupboard

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asiaXdreamy 9 yrs ago
Oh , riddle solved

You were the magician to cast the spell , not you don't wanna dispel it but resort to unlawful means?

Think again what u have done for your kitchen but not your forthcoming helper

You just cannot have your cake and eat it. Sacrifice, make choices .

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Armadillo 9 yrs ago
Sure Asiadreamy,

You are right. I could spend on renovating my kitchen you are right. But as I said I did this 10 years ago. It would actually cost a lot of money that I honestly don't have right now. So it's just not a case of me "having me cake and eating it". That's said cake sounds very good to this pregnant lady right now!

I'm also very pregnant and I really couldn't Renovate my kitchen now anyway even if I could afford it. It would also be a case of moving windows as well as rerunning gas lines. So it's not an easy fix...

My point still stands - the current room is not sufficient for a helper, I can't afford to change it, and I don't want to break the law.

Anyway I think I've fully exhausted this without finding a way to hire a legal live-out helper.

Thank you all for your input.

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Mac-010 9 yrs ago
Our DH like living outside; i suspect its the same for most ?. More freedom after work etc.
OK, its a risk; but we got no choice now (short of her sleeping on couch in living room).

BUT; interview some DH and see what they think of room. It might work; its only for sleeping etc

You seem to have a big place overall so i understand you are feeling guilty :)

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asiaXdreamy 9 yrs ago
Yes talk to them on temporary sleeling areangement frankly. Or arrange a large and comfy foldable bed or sofa .

Talk and find one .

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Rayhiz 9 yrs ago
Single bed with built in drawers, shelves and cabinet for sale. Excellent for small studio apartments or maid's room. Good condition.

Dimensions:
Width 95cm
Length 189cm
Height 220cm

Price List:
Bed $1500
Mattress (optional) $1000
Mattress Protector (optional) $100
Beddings (optional) $500

Images available on request.

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orchardarea 9 yrs ago
I am someone who had a live-out helper because our maid's quarter is small. A few points:
1. it's against the law so you need to have an understanding/trust with your helper in advance just in case.
2. Discipline: arriving on time, a lifestyle that you agree with (late partying, drinking, etc while not under your purview)
3. Cost: whilst you might agree with the initial rent, there is no lease and rent can go up quickly
4. Exhaustion: depending on your schedule, getting up very early in the morning to get ready, travel time
overtime these factors take their toll on motivation.
When my chance came to change helper, I hired a live in one. Our maid's quarter is small but I had furniture made (3 ft bed, set of small table + foldable chair, shelves). No TV but radio, wi-fi. I asked a contractor to change the bathroom door to give more space and the new helper was very happy with it. it's been 6 months and working out for both os us. she is very neat and tidy so that helps also. We also knew another helper who live out. She had to report to work at 730 and she has get up and queue up for the toilette etc at 545. She doesn't finish until 9-10 at night and after 6 months she got too burned out. She started too lose hair. The boarding house is noisy and she can't sleep properly.
Hope this helps.

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sunshine929 9 yrs ago
The solution is simple.

Go rent a suitable apartment. Rent out your own apartment.

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