Posted by
kenwin
14 yrs ago
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I'm with kenwin. While your intent is admirable grytch your post is outside the scope of this board.
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I don't think anyone in the right mind would terminate a helper because of the tragedy that happened in the Phillipines?
You'll have to be mental to do this, not cruel.
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I read something in a news report yesterday suggesting that Filipino FDHs were being terminated in retaliation for what happened in Manila. Frankly I took that as idle gossip and tittle-tattle as I cannot believe that even in HK anyone could be so mental (as GemmaW correctly describes it).
If there is any documented case then the FDH concerned should certainly protest against such an action to the Labor department.
Until a documented case is highlighted I will certainly still consider it to be idle gossip and tittle-tattle and will not believe it.
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Agreed with spurtio. It is gossip. There are no "confirmed" reports.
This reminds me of a post a few years ago where someone thought HKers should terminate Filipino helpers because The Philippines claimed sovereignty over the Spratly Islands, as does China (as well as Malaysia, Taiwan ROC, Vietnam and Brunei).
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lace
14 yrs ago
"Its a conflict between two countries..."
What utter bollocks. This was a horrible and tragic incident and my heart goes out to the people who lost loved ones. But this it NOT a conflict between two countries!
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I'm with lace. This incident is in no way a conflict between two countries. That would imply intent by one or both governments (or factions of such) to do harm to the other.
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Ed
14 yrs ago
I came across this when hunting for news this morning:
The fury that some Hong Kong people feel over the hostage debacle has spilled over into racist appeals for retribution, with Internet posts calling for Filipino maids in the city to be sacked and sent home. There have been reports that some Filipino maids were hurled insults on streets by local people, so much so that some maids have been advised by their employers not to go out. Philippine President Benigno Aquino's Facebook page has also been the target of a torrent of incendiary attacks, some of which carry clearly racist overtones.
About 140,000 Filipinos live in Hong Kong, most of them working as domestic helpers, so mass sackings and deportations would have a major impact on the city's way of life while also bringing Hong Kong international opprobrium.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LH27Ad01.html
What happened in Manila is disturbing and unacceptable - but I do not understand why we would want to take out our anger on domestic helpers...
Instead the HK and China govts should focus on the so-called 'govt' of the Philippines... which is controlled by a small group of families who dont pay taxes and who are dedicated to enriching themselves at the expense of tens of millions who live in abject poverty....
They are the reason the police force is both incompetent and an embarrassment to the country and why these 8 people are lying dead in a morgue...
To start with revoke this moron's bail (and btw - how did his coke stash go from 26g to 6g and the charge drop from trafficking to possession...) and let him rot in jail until trial time
http://asiancorrespondent.com/breakingnews/philippine-legislator-given-bail-on.htm
And put a travel ban on all Philippine govt officials who try to come to Hong Kong - it wont achieve much other than letting them know we know who is responsible...
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Agreed with Ed. In fact, those rich families you speak of are the main reason so many Filipinos have to leave in order to find work. There is no way for them to find decent jobs in the Philippines. Typical corrupt third-world kleptocracy.
As for HKers, there are always childish sheeple who get riled up at this sort of thing, and act irrationally in response to aggressive rhetoric designed to strike fear. I suspect that when it blows over the vast majority of HKers will realize that they like having their maids more than they like venting over their maid's nationality.
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Of course they are innocent. Unfortunately though, lots of sheeple are only too ready to take on a cause if it involves looking down on other people. History is full of examples.
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Some hysteria is developing over the tragic deaths of these Chinese tourists, at the hands of ONE EMOTIONALLY DISTURBED MAN!, yes there was a bungled attempt to rescue them which needs investigating, and hopefully improvements in the type of training this particular police force gets.
Unfortunately it only takes one slightly mad person, of any nationality to cause this type of tragedy anywhere in the world, we have all seen shocking reports similar from across the globe.
My husband is the only Gweilo working in an office of all Chinese, he was saying lots of them are very scared, and have taken out more life insurance as a result of what happened on Monday, Sheeple is a fantastic description AX38.
Then I got stories from our FDH last evening, messageing each other with terror stories, I won't even repeat them, because as yet I have not seen any evidence in the Newspaper or on the website and TV to support this, but i think they are building 'mountains out of mole hills', more sheeple examples! I can believe that the odd FDH has been terminated, but not in the numbers being imagined, and probably by people who have very close connection to the unfortunate victims of this tragedy. But in general i think most people are sensible, and will not terminate a good helper for no reason.
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grytch: with all due respect, i really don't see how comments like yours help the situation. there are grieving families (not just the HK families but the gunman's family - his father is inconsolable and his family has to apologise on national television), injured victims in hospitals and a young man still struggling for his life after 2 brain operations. there are mixed emotions and confusion - all understandable.
your report on the FDH situation is still hearsay and don't you think if indeed that is the case it will be investigated? And don't you think if a FDH has been unlawfully dismissed he/she is not going to file a complaint (has every right)? frankly your approach and comments are neither helpful nor positive. you are fuelling a fire when you should let the dead rest in peace and let the living rebuild their lives.
and by the way, your "freudian" slip of "a conflict between two countries" says a lot.
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"My husband is the only Gweilo working in an office of all Chinese, he was saying lots of them are very scared, and have taken out more life insurance as a result of what happened on Monday, Sheeple is a fantastic description AX38. "
I have to give credit for the word to author Michael Z. Williamson, but thanks. ;)
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I completely agree with Ed too. You only need to take one glance at the domestic help section in Asia Expat to see people are disapointed enough already with some of their helpers. This recent news plays no part what so ever.
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Not to throw petrol on the fire, but I have heard way worse stories than just termination. SHEEPLE!!!
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Considering how it's been raised to the diplomatic level by some people and parties eager to make political hay out of it, OP has a point.
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Quite a pointless post, not sure what the objective is; aleslie has nailed it to a tee.
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I fully agreed with Aleslie and Muchado and HK beautiful.
One thing I am sure is Filipina DHs here in HK would never take an unlawful dismissal quietly. They probably have more knowledge of labour law than most employers.
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During over 10 years n HK, my wife has picked up dozens of Filipina Domestic Helpers from the streets, that have been unlawfully terminated, abused, underpaid, denied their only and 1 weekly day off... among others, a filipina that was forced to eat from the Dog's Bowl, countless beaten filipinas, denied their days off, forced to work in 2 or more households for 1 (pity) salary... All of these abuses and human right violations happened in "normal" times. One can only imagine what is going on now.
Last but not least.
My full sympathy and respect for the families of the tourist killed in Manila and Shame for the Philippine Govt (and past Governments) for ther incompetence, corruption and indifference in this and many other cases....
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Ricoletto, with all due respects, but your post sounds as if it's always the Filipina's that is at the sharp end of workplace/human rights abuse. I am sure that if it happens to FDH, then it will almost certainly happen to the Indonesians or Nepalese as well. Yes, I've heard stories similar to these and it doesn't paint HK employers very well. The abusers would still abuse no matter what race or colour, it's just them.
On the other hand, there's always two sides to every story, just a couple of months ago an employer posted for advice regarding his maid who always shouted back when spoken to.
On the whole, I think you will find most HK employers are far more reasonable than the ones which the mentioned unfortunates had worked for.
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how can it be "confirmed" unless the employer blatantly admits that..which I doubt.
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Muchado, you are absolutely right, it is not only Filipina's but also the other Indonesian, Thai and Nepalese helpers that are being abused. (I hope you dont' reply by telling me, that I forgot to list another ethnicity of helpers...). They are all being abused. And yes there are good employers (the majority, probably). But my point is that nothing has been done for these "sufferers" over the course of the last decades. The sympathy and protection of rights and demand for apoligies, seem to be quiet unilateral, don't you think so ? Where are the protest marches for abused and even killed helpers, and workers in mainland China for example ? I love that every human being is treated with respect and dignity and every human being rights are protected.
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The Phil consulate has said that the termination was not related to the hostage incident. Even if it was I am sure the helper could not claim that as she has no proof. As carmine said, it can never be confirmed because the employer will never admit that. But employers don't even have to give a reason for termination. Dismissal only requires 1month notice or 1month salary in lieu of notice. I agree in general HK people will act reasonably at least when interacting with Filipinos. My helper and driver have encountered acts of rudeness in the wet market and the public carpark from a couple of locals, but those people could have biases even before this incident. I hope for peace and sobriety in these challenging times.
I understand what ricoletto is saying. But unfortunately the other FDH abuses and worker tragedies in China were not widely known to the public like the hostage incident so the trauma to the public's emotion and psyche is far less. In Beijing for examply a family of Filipino tourists were stabbed by a local criminal killing 2 and seriously injuring 3 near Tianamen square. That was not in the media in China or HK or the Phils.
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Tune
14 yrs ago
"for examply a family of Filipino tourists were stabbed by a local criminal killing 2 and seriously injuring 3 near Tianamen square." - Short memory, I myself forgot about this incident.
I have the feeling that the 'Manila incident' is manifesting itself as an excuse for mere nationalism. Demonstrations, such as the one on Sunday, are at best, unhelpful. And are of no use to those that need to mourn.
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I think it's a incident philipin goverment need to say sorry about this case this all happen because of philipin system.
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Hong Kong is a city that has been raised by maids. People here soon forget that. What would happen if all the maids quit or were terminated by paranoid employers? This city would crumble. Way too many parents are too busy pursuing cash to take care of their own kids, clean their homes or to cook their own dinner. I never understood how someone could hurl insults at the person who is at home with their child. I realise that this is a tragic event but people need to think before they open their mouths. No maid here had anything to do with the Manila hostage taking, plain and simple.
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Totally agree with Madtown, the over reaction of the HK Govt is laughable and a pathetic attempt to show its 'human side'. To put the Philippines on the travel black list is bizarre as it now says the Philippines are a more dangerous place to visit than Pakistan.
A cynical, mismanaged attempt by Donald and his cronies to show that they are one with the Hong Kong people; and hope the resident population ignore all the other c*ap they come out with.
Mind you, can you imagine Donald's reaction if it there had been some rich HK businessmen or tycoons killed?
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Recent poll showed Donald Tsang's popularity rating to be at a two year high. This after all the anger over alleged government/business collusion and favourtism for the rich and powerful.
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To you Starhkg,
stop talking if you have nothing good to say. These Filipino Domestic Helpers here in Hong Kong has nothing to do with that incident. If you had watched & read their own comment about what had happened then youshould know that they are angry as well. They did not contribute anything to the outcome of that hostage. Why naming them and bomebard them? Think of this. " These Domestic Hleper" brought and still bringing great revenues to Hong Kong". Look at shops, fast foods and malls during their holidays, they are the great spender. They are a big help to us Hong Kongers.
Nothing more to say but if you Starhkg says more I do will say more.
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Fixer
14 yrs ago
mrcynic & madtown, what you fail to grasp of Manila’s tragedy is that this was no touring incident where some tourists are mugged or even stabbed for their wallets and cameras.
This was a kidnapping and hostage taking situation, of international stature. Nationals traveling under a passport of any sovereign nation are protected by that country. The HK government got involved when their citizens came under attack and when they felt that the government of that country did not do all they could to resolve the issue in the best possible manner. You may laugh at the black flagging, but this is only to get resolve from the Philippine government to act in a responsible fashion rather than brushing it aside as a trivial matter. The black flag serves as a warning to prospective travelers to that country warning them of the dangers they may face and, more importantly, the reliance of the local authorities to deal with that threat. The HK Government’s stance is not to punish the people of the Philippines, but to assert a legal standing against their government for a fair and transparent investigation into this matter.
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There's a lot to be said from all the comments on this thread, but Fixer said it best.
I was not aware of what happened as I was in London that time. I only learned from it after reading the paper.
I've read back issues of SCMP and other newspaper and I can say it's been sensationalized.
Everyone could look at it from the more emotional point of view, or the more rational (?)/logical one as Fixer stated.
The only thing I could say is, it could have been dealt with much better.
@ gyrich, learn to doge when you're being wound up. The best retort, often is silence.
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Starhkg,
I am not from Philippines Mr.Starhkg, but I do have a filipino helper who work for us for so many years. The topic am talking with you is how you named and talked about the Filipino Domestci Helpers not the facts about the government officials. Read properly moron and reply as to what is being said.
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"Its almost as if the people of Hong Kong feel their lives are that much more special than anyone elses" madtown, that is a very unfair statement coming from you, given that you have lived in HK for such a long time and you should know most HK people never find themselves superior to anybody. This is a very special case explained clearly by Fixer which I fully agree. I also want to praise souffeQueen because although she is a Filipina, she can distinquished the black and white of this case and does not blindly defend something that is not right or ridicule certain situations. My sincere respect to you, souffeQueen!
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I can say most if not all helpers from the Philippines working in HK know or are aware of how bad their government dealt with this kidnapping as they saw all that had been going on on the telly. My helper was more excited than my husband and I when we watched the news together. She shouted & exclaimed 'get him' 'grab him' and 'shoot his leg' as she watched quite a numbers of scenes where the ex-cop could have been stopped. He was in full sight a couple of times at the entrance of the bus door. The 2 negotiators were so near him when they talked to him...two against one....could have grabbed him as my helper said. Yes, he could easily be stopped in the beginning and only became agitated & turned dangerous when the police captured and forced his younger brother so roughly.
My helper dared not go out the next day to the market and I had to soothe her saying HK people are reasonable & the scenes are crystal clear to what were happening over in Manila, so don't listen to idle gossips and to some people who like to dramatize everything to get attention.
Surely, those tourists need not die in vain if the police had acted otherwise. No one should have died in this particular incident.......not that HK lives are more precious as someone wrote earlier - all lives are precious but to be taken away like this is really not right at all.
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Wouldn't it be great if every time China did something stupid we punish Hong Kong people for it.
Why can't HK people understand that Filipinos have been killed in China before, and the Chinese government on every occasion acted to cover things up or just completely ignored the situation and took no responsibility. If HK people want to keep professing to be Chinese then they will be treated as Chinese. Manila has done more than required in this situation. If it happened in China we wouldn't even know about it for a week, and there would be absolutely NO chance of allowing foreign investigators in.
Grow up HK.
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gaz_hayes
Are you anti-HK & China - so why are you HERE? Going into history is stupid & cruel! You grow up!
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No one wanted what happened to the tourists in manila. However, people in hong kong are over reacting. Gaz_hayes has a point, no need for hong kong people to be so sensitive. The Filipino tourists who were killed and injured in Tiananmen Square a few years ago never came out in the news. China I found out about it only because I knew a relative of family. In no way was the Philippines allowed to do their own investigation of the incident.....So, what makes the the Chinese think they deserve better?
The Philippines and Hong Kong are doing their own separate investigations. I'd say that's a whole lot better than how China handles incidents.
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mike204, do enlighten us regarding the Tiananmen Square incident. First time I heard about this. How many were killed and how many were injured? Did the Philippines asked to go to investigate? Would appreciate for more details since you have first-hand information and we don't want to be in the dark regarding this hidden news. And Chinese (I am one myself) certainly do not think they deserve better. We are all humans on the same planet.
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viper, it's not surprising you hadn't heard of this incident. To make a long story short, a family took a trip to China, went on tour, got off the tourist bus and a man immediately attacked them, stabbing the father, daughter and mother. The daughter died on the square, father (corrected) brought to the hospital but did not survive. No investigation was allowed. I am sure no one wanted this to happen. No apology to the family nor to the Philippines from China. In fact, nothing about it came out in the news.
Another thing to think about would be the numerous acid attacks here in Hk. Several tourists from the Philippines have been victims of this acid attacks. HK also failed to protect tourists.
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mike204, thanks for the information - would be terrible and also very unfair if that was true - am trying to digest same and will ask around.
As to the acid incidents in HK (victims include locals & other nationalities, not just Filipinos as I was told)and the recent manila kidnapping, I think it is two completely different issues and cannot be debated together as one subject.
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Viper, the tiananmen sq incident happened 5 years ago. and yes it is TRUE.
All incidents are different. In manila, the police totally f***** up and as a result hostages were killed and injured. However, the acid attacks, manila hostage incident and the tiananmen square incident all have 1 thing in common....that the countries where these incidents happened failed to protect the tourists. One big difference, would be the reaction of the people.....some are rational...others overreact beyond belief.
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starhkg
I already said, the incidents are totally different. Manila police in front of the whole world screwed up and showed how incompetent they were. The elite force was on hand waiting for orders but some dumbass police chief decided to against their president's orders to utilize the elite squad. Deaths could have been avoided. The point is, the reaction of a lot of hkers against the Filipinos who had nothing to do whatsoever with this "f**** up is beyond belief.
Now I am merely agreeing with what gaz_hayes said. Because there was no media blackout, the entire world witnessed this f***** up of the Manila hostage incident. Had this happened in China, it would have been swept under the rug, no investigative body from another state would be allowed in, similar to what happened to the tiananmen incident. The Philippines has acknowledged their f**** up, the head of state apologized. An investigating team from hk is involved. Actions after the incident and reactions are different.
The acid attacks wherein several tourists of different nationalities were injured, tourists were not protected. We all know, in Mongkok the acid attacks happened in exactly the same place, so yes it could have been avoided from happening a second time and a third time etc. BUT everyone knows that apart from the acid thrower, no one wanted these incidents to happen.
Some people forget that these Filipinos in Hk had nothing to do with the incident. They strongly condemn it just like everyone else. So why the animosity towards the Filipinos who had nothing do to with this incident?
Everyone makes mistakes. Chinese are no different. The important thing is to acknowledge your wrong doing; learn from it to avoid a repeat; apologize; if possible, do what can be done to rectify it; punish the guilty individuals so the long healing process can finally begin.
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If A Filipina domestic helper is terminated because of this Hostage incident, then.. bless her... because she's better off looking for another employer than living with an Employer who is unreasonable...
The Hostage situation was mishadled in thousands of ways... and The Philippines will pay the price in tourism dollars because of it.
Regarding Tianamen Square incident where Filipinos were killed. That situation was different.. It was a random act of violence.
The Police in the Philippines had more than 10 hours to diffuse the situation. However they failed in every level... From President.. Mayor... Police chief... and the self righteous media. All contributed to this botched, bungled rescue mission.
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@grytch
No one is Generalizing here...
You cast the first stone if you think you haven't done this yourself about other nationalities
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starhkg
your grammatical errors are not any different from those of grytch. What's your point?
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you can tell from the choice of words and grammatical error where somone is from especailly here in ASiaXpat
Oops! i'm not generalizing... I'm just flippin'
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starhkg
grytch is a helper working in HK. She has a very lively spirit and cannot be stopped by anyone whenever she wants her views expressed. Right grytch? Actually, that's quite OK as we are all on the same levels for our own opinions but we should also listen to others too as no one is perfect and must accept that we could be wrong sometimes. I was not aware of the Tiananmen Square case and mike204 kindly pointed out to me and I do feel for the family, especially (my assumption only) when they had no-where to ask for support, even from their own government???).
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@ viper342
Good one...
"when they had no-where to ask for support, even from their own government?"
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Ed
14 yrs ago
This thread is going downhill into racist comments (deleted) and this therefore
CLOSED TO FURTHER COMMENT.
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