Posted by
revola
19 yrs ago
I really do admire those employers who have consciense of giving more allowance than the one stated by the govt. I started working since 1992 and the 300 stated in contract was there already.My gosh, a 10 dollars for one day , I bet how can a helper fulfill her job well.
Employers got no business when its the day off of the helper as she can avail it herself but I heard from some DH that their employers allowed them to cook before their day off esp. if they have get together. God bless those employers who are not mean.
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[quote='revola']
My gosh, a 10 dollars for one day
100’s of Domestic Helpers with References & Photos here!
[/quote]
But it is not 10 dollars per day it is 300 dollars per month and that is a substantive difference. You can buy large bulk staple goods at a much lower price than buying a cup of rice a day.
Now here’s what I have bought for just 298.80 in my local Parknshop. I am certain I could have cut at least 30 dollars off in the local markets.
3000 grams Noodles
5000 grams Rice
1800 grams Potato
6500 grams assorted vegetables including Chinese green vegetables, carrots, lettuce, cucumbers and squashes.
4 liters UHT full fat (same price for skimmed) milk
15 gala apples
15 oranges
3000 grams assorted meat (Pork, Chicken, Fish and Canned Ham)
Daily Nutrition (better than the RDA of any western country on all aspects)
326 grams carbohydrate (excluding fruits and vegetables)
230 grams fruit and vegetable
100 grams meat per day (fat & protein)
133ml milk per day (fat & protein)
Monthly expense $298.80
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Good one chefcrsh...LOL you are a true thorough chef!
Wish you could do my food accounts!!!
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Monthly expense HKd 298.80 and you got everything but the problem is could you stock all those veggies and fruits till end of the month? sure it will get rotten.
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Please don't be ridiculous, we are talking about the sufficiency of a helper food allowance, not if the helper should have a refrigerator or fridge space allotted. But since you asked, carrot potato and onion could be, but it is unnecessary as all veg can be bought by small portion for same price (same is true of the meat and fish) Fruit can be bought one 8 pack at a time and will certainly last. Please if you are going to try and poke holes THINK first.
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ritad
19 yrs ago
i am sick of people talking about 300 a month food allowance..pls..you think the helpers don't eat other stuff.....i have said before already..first of all..it is not really 10 dollars a day..remember sundays????and all the time you eat outwith her.......and really get over it..
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Please also think if you are the helper,can you manage to have only those food listed above,with working hours mostly 7am to 11 from monday to saturday?I am just being realistic here,coz you cant get all you listed above at one time since it will not be fresh anymore or else you need to spent 11 dollors breakfast,lunch and dinner.
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Yes I agree with you,some of them shared thier food to thier employer but some of them really giving 300 dollors a month.You may not believe it but its true.
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Because the basic salary of a domestic helper is absolute peanuts?? You also need to take into account that a lot of these women are supporting families back in the Philipines not just themselves.
I take you point that we as 'employees' don't get an alloted food allowance and pay out of our pocket. However, having a domestic helper is a luxury and if you cannnot afford to support one to a reasonable standard of living, then do not employ one.
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I used to give my previous helper $500 food allowance every month but I found out she was not really using it but eating other food that I had bought for the family. She used to just buy milk, bread and noodles. I eventually stopped giving her allowance as the allowance wasn't included in the contract and just ate what we did.
I know that many DH send money back home to their families and you hear many sob sob stories, but then you see many DH with the latest mobile phones. My previous helper had more pairs of shoes than I did and always came back every Sunday evenings with bags of shopping! Granted that not all helpers are like this and this isn't what the thread is about, but if helpers can spend like this, then they can certainly use their own money to buy their own food on top of getting any food allowance.
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Most of the helpers who get 300 for food spent thier own money to buy or else how can they survive?working almost 24 hrs a day monday to saturday with less food? even waking up in a mid of the night to take care of babies.
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MayC
19 yrs ago
This is only my thought but I could be wrong..... the thing is $300 is a basic allowance ON TOP of their salary. If this is the case and if they want to eat better than what their $300 can offer, they still have their salary earnings to top it up. It's just like a meal allowance from a company... it may just be enough to cover an average meal... but if we would like seafood dinners, we'd have to pay part of those ourselves with our own salary. Same deal with helpers.
In regards to depriving helpers who work hard: I think the majority of employers do not mind if their helpers eat what they have at home. It's unfair to say that they only get $300 a month because they also get a salary to use.
My helper eats what we eat and we don't give her this allowance. She's free to eat whatever we have in the fridge: cheese, milk, biscuits, honey etc.
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Dear Vulvic, My partner his two sisters and brother all work full time to support their own families and their parents home rather than making their parents a burden to the social welfare of Hong Kong tax payers. To do this they needed to hire a fulltime domestic to care for the ill and aging parents. I hardly call that a luxury expense.
It has been confirmed that $3,320 plus $300 per month for food will provide a reasonably standard of living by the government and by the numerous helpers tripping over each other for the chance to come to Hong Kong and work.
As many have pointed out a lot of FDH have better cost to income deals than the lower income staff in our own company's or in the businesses we support through our patronage.
If you want to have a little charity why not start with the native Hong Kong people? If you want to give your helper more you should do so, but please get off your high horse asserting that only rich people should be allowed domestic help, or that anyone not going over and above the minimum wage should be ashamed. Both counts are false.
Vulvic Said: "having a domestic helper is a luxury and if you cannnot afford to support one to a reasonable standard of living, then do not employ one".
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it is a luxury.
But some people who can hardly afford this also need the help.
So there you have it.
people from both ends of the spectrum use this service.
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luxury n 1: something that is an indulgence rather than a necessity.
Sorry, fails the test of definition for MOST people. Most people have a clear and confirmable NEED for a domestic helper, regardless of weather you think they have too much income from having a two income family.
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I said a need not a luxury (something you do not need) not a right. People have to find ways to pay and secure domestic help. In many other places ( not necessarily west or east) people have and pay for the equivalent. Cleaners, child care services, play schools, pet walking services, yards. In those places the service industry has blossomed to provide many different cost effective options other than importing helpers, so importing helpers in those places has become somewhat of a more luxurious expense.
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Ok Barbara and same applies to you, though I don't see how it matters as one should feel free to respond to any comments on this message board not have to wait for a direct invitation.
By the way, I do wonder why it would seem more right to stifle the career of one partner asking them to stay at home and look after the chores, or to stifle the economic prospects of the family for the same reason; meanwhile offering no opportunity to those individuals who are looking for just such domestic work, forcing them also to remain home and unemployed, perhaps even starving. Right? Right.
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I dont see hiring a domestic helper is a luxury.We hired DH out of neccesity,I need to help my husband to meet up our needs,and save some money for our childrens future.But I agree to you Barbara,if I could have a chance to take care of my family I will be happy.Also,I treated my helper as one member of our family,I make sure she had enough rest and not giving her too much work in our house.I did our laundry and she do the ironing.We ate together in the table ,shared our food.She is very good to my children and took care of them and i really apreciate that.We are open to each other to avoid misunderstanding,my husband and me took her out once a month to have a special dinner in that way we can talk if there's any problem then we can discuss.It works in this way and my helper is happy for this arrangement.
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Mingming that seems like an excellent arrangement.
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MC
19 yrs ago
I have to say that I find this whole discussion of "luxury vs. necessecity" total not necessary. Having a helper is a way of life here. What is there to discuss? Of course, they have to be treated with respect. Whether you raise your children by yourself or by a helper is a totally personal choice. Some women want to have a career which I happen to think is quite important whether for finacial reasons or simply for personal satisfaction. Just because someone works does not mean the person is not a good mother. On the other hand, these helpers need these jobs. Each society is different. Just because there are no helpers in the West doesn't mean having one here is not right.
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MC
19 yrs ago
What is a reasonable wage? The average HK family makes far less than what families make in the West. Actually helpers in HK get paid a lot more compared with those in other countries in Asia. Plus they have no expenses!! I do agree that many of them are treated badly which is a shame.
As for raising children, of course it is always better to raise them yourselves. But again, the average family here does not have that luxury as they need both parents to work. Even in those families where they can afford it, the women choose to work. Raising children to some is not the only important thing in life. Having a career is also very important. Just look at those who are dumped by their husbands (happens a lot in Asia) and then have no means to support themselves.
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MC
19 yrs ago
However much Westerners on this form are paid is irrelevant. This is Hong Kong, a Chinese society!! There is a reason why helpers are paid what they are paid. As Westeners, you can pay them Western wages if you want, it won't change anything foundamentally. Actually most women stay home to raise their children in the West, in particular the United States. You said it right, look at all the crime and etc. Maybe helpers raing children is not a bad idea.
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MC
19 yrs ago
Jbebeb: Well said. Absolutely true!!!
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Sorry to keep this going, but back to the point about who my child (for example) would prefer looking after him, a helper or me. This is not the point - we both take care of him. Neither of us has to be round him 24 hours a day, and therefore both of us have far more energy and time to play with him, read to him etc than if it was just one person. I think he is far better off than if I was at home being a stressed housewife having to do everything. I can come home at night in time for us to play together, have dinner together and we have a much better quality of life because of this. I feel sad for my helper that she has felt that she has to leave her husband and son to come and work overseas to make a better future for her family, but I am very grateful for her being here. I treat her with respect, I expect her to follow my guidelines, I pay her the minimum wage, and I think it is a thoroughly satisfactory arrangement for all of us, baby included.
And all this stupid argument about salary - you know, if I could go and work overseas for 5 times what I could earn here (or in the UK, where I come from), I would do that like a shot. I would work whatever hours were required, doing whatever work was required, I would save my money for 5 years and then come back here and retire comfortably. I don't think I would feel exploited, regardless of what people around me were earning.
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No Barbara in fact the immediate family I was referring to at this time is my partner and myself. We have no kids of our own yet. We do have a large and important extended family that we also consider when planning our future, which includes care of the elderly, care of ourselves in later life and care for others in emergency.
We do have a full time helper to care for our home, cleaning etc. I’m surprised that you want us to work her harder than we do, or rather that you suggest we couldn’t possibly have enough for her to do.
We actually got tired of the trouble with employing a FDH and have taken all that cost (levy, flights, room, board) and hired a very nice Hong Kong resident who is doing an excellent job for us and seems quite happy with the arrangement. I have found we are spending no more (possibly less in utility bills) and have a much more happy healthy home environment.
I think you should try to work around your prejudice. I am a westerner who left his home, family, and friends for much less (especially considering cost of living) than I was making in the States. I did so because there is a whole world out there to experience. I then first fell in love with Hong Kong, worked like a mad man for 8 years to gain permanent residence and in the mean time fell even more in love with a native Hong Kong person who (lucky for me) agreed to marry me. I also have opened up quite a few businesses and in doing so created hundreds of jobs. Every time I get some success I sell the darned thing off and build another one (horrible addiction). My Salary today is actually less than when I moved here in 1994, though I own the business and was just a line level employee back then. Without my partners job we could not have bought a flat together or started saving for a reasonable retirement some day.
Both my partner and I have had to survive before on $300 per month in the past so we know: 1. It can be done 2. It is far from a starvation proposition. 3. When we did it we still had to pay rent, gas, water, electric, transportation, worked 12 or more hours per day, and had no days off or vacation.
I am glad for anyone who has it in their means and heart to pay above what is required. And I think that those who pay below are wrong. But I am tired of hearing that those who do pay the minimum are somehow unworthy.
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While I agree with you that $300 is a sufficient food allowance for a helper, I am confused by a couple of comments.
First, I think the average expat on this site (at least those in this particular forum) is paying (far) more than 15000 per month in rent.
Second, are you saying your husband manages on only a $300 food budget per month? (we're not talking per week or per day, right?) Unless your husband eats breakfast and dinner at home and packs a lunch to the office, it would be practically impossible to spend only $300 per month.
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I think caesar is thinking in USD when the rest of us are talking in HKD.
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Monthly rental $15K and $300 only for food? Is that for real?
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green, you are probably in the minority here in terms of how high your rent is (I could be wrong of course). I suspect those who pay that much probably are too busy trying to get into Hong Kong Tatler to visit this site. You can certainly find suitable accomodations in Hong Kong for HK$15K and you can feed yourself on $300 per month. The latter is more challenging for your average office worker but is a reasonable (though not necessarily all encompassing) allowance for a helper.
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Indeed I never paid over 14500 (and that was 1100 sq ft old bldg causeway bay) until I got the mortgage and now just a few thousand more than that. For two years around 97/98 when I was trying to maximize my savings I lived in a Sheung Wan 250 sq ft studio apartment (new and clean with lift and security) for 4500 inclusive.
Most of the staff I work with either live at home (with parents, etc), rent a room (150 sq ft) for a few thousand a month or share a 5-7K apartment with a few friends. The majority of domestic rent in HK is below 15K per month.
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ritad
19 yrs ago
for the people who complain about domestic helpers working for peanuts.....alot of people in hong kong have families to support as well..that is why ther eis a need for helper...we also barely survive....also....the ones who say helpers shoudl get this and that more are the ones makin g much more then the average hongkonger...
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I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone paying 15000 USD/CAD/AUD (or even half of that amount) for rent is making much more than the average Hongkonger. But, all is not lost, as I am sure the Ed loves to cite this demographic to potential advertisers.
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Barely survive? But in this same series of discussions we have learned of helpers getting fat and supporting their whole families, including putting siblings and children through education, and buying real property with the surplus from their wages. I doubt this can be termed subsistence wage under any measure.
I have put the question to a lot of local low skilled staff (mainly restaurant) and they think room, board, and 3320 per month is as good or better than what they have. But they also don't consider themselves barely surviving.
There are people in Hong Kong on government support who live in $100 per month cage rooms and have a total income of less than 3000 per month... they don’t even have a bank account! Now that’s more like barely surviving.
Domestic help in generally does well in terms of similar low or no skill labor in Hong Kong, compared with the opportunities in their homeland they have a remarkably improved life due to the opportunities afforded by being a FDH in Hong Kong.
BTW Ed does target these people (and good on him), at the very least through his emplyment agency.
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Hmmm interesting every helper I have had has an HSBC account. The banner at the top of the page is an HSBC ad. Seems like a likely target audience.
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ritad
19 yrs ago
miss vulvic..and others with same ideas...
peanuts...dh make peanust ...and they have to support families..and we don't...we just like to work for fun...we don't have families to support...the reason we have dh...most of us have them is to support the family....and most people in hong kong don't even save that much money...personaly i mkae over thirty but i dont' save a penny..not cause i ever go out to eat....or go to moives...or even drink...or anything luxury....but with 2 kids...that is how it is..i live in a small two bed room house...
why don't my employer start giving me food allowance..
HELLOW>>>wake up...we are not all here on packages...
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