CHECK ALL REFERENCES GOING BACK AT LEAST 5 YEARS

Hi all

this is just a quick message to say you all need to check every single reference when hiring. Dont take any letters/story that the family have left HK and cant be contacted. if a helper has been terminated from their last contract, you will also know from the immigration department. Being terminated means something bad happened otherwise a family would just let someone go on a months notice. Our ex-helper is currently advertising herself out their as this "amazing/excellent Help" which she wasnt and we fired her after almost 4 months of torture. I logged/wrote down every single issue we had so she didnt have a leg to stand on when we fired her. She is claiming to still be working for us now (in her adverts on this site and geoexpat) and is basically lying about her current referee (shes found someone who speaks English and is claiming to be us). Ask lots and lots and lots of questions and if something STILL doesnt feel right, dont hire anyone for the sake of it. We have someone wonderful working with us now and the contrast is incredible. Our last "Helper" was out partying nearly every other night until 5am and sleeping during the day. I have 7 month old twin babies and the horrible atmosphere this silly cow created in my own home was unbearable. Dont let it happen to you.


Hire/fire anyone like you would in any normal work place. This is your home/family/children, which is far more important than anything else. Its a shame we cant have a website dedicated to naming these terrible, totally unprofessional DH.

I am totally against a centralized database against perceived "bad" helpers. Helpers are in a weak enough position as is. This would just open them up to more abuse.


Unless of course there was an equivalent database of abusive employers.


Yes, you can and should check references when available. However references don't replace a good rapport during the interview. There is no 100% safe bet employee. In the end, you have to make a leap of faith.


"Being terminated means something bad happened otherwise a family would just let someone go on a months notice"


I disagree. It can indeed mean something the helper did something that was wrong. It can also mean the chemistry was all wrong and a decent helper just didn't mesh with the family. It can also mean that the employer is "impossible". I have seen employers who go through a new helper every few months, and then that helper is suddenly fired. They can't possibly all be bad.

I appreciate your comments but it had nothing to do with not meshing or being "impossible". This woman abused her position and took the piss. We even rang her old employer after 2 months of her non-stop partying who saw her on Facebook (with photos of our kids) and said we should fire her immediately. I have been in previous jobs which I wish there had been a database of the horrid/unprofessional/affected employers I worked for. People cant get away with treating others like crap. We are not those type of people to keep hiring people every few months, although nor are we the type to carry on with someone for a year and then say we should have fired them sooner. Our new Helper is treated with kindness and respect always. We wish we had got her from day one but then we would never have experienced, or understood, what we shouldnt put up with. The fact the ex-Helper in currently advertising her services and lying about everything she did (never cooked for us but apparently she does excellent French Cuisine & gained a University degree in 4 months), shows her character. I'm not saying everyone out there is bad (in any work place as we get that in all areas of our life), Im just saying, delve as deep as you can and rely on your instincts.

Don't get me wrong. I understand you had a bad experience with this particular helper. Unfortunately such things happen. From your account she certainly seems to have deserved termination.


However I think it is important to remember that not all helpers who are terminated before end of contract have done something "bad".


"Im just saying, delve as deep as you can and rely on your instincts."


Agreed!

I have also encountered a helper providing false references.


A while back, I contacted a helper I found on this website, and she provided me with what she claimed to be the name and telephone number of her most recent employer so that I could call for a reference. When I called, the woman I spoke with had a very heavy (Philippino) accent, even though the previous employer was supposed to be English and from the UK. The woman was unable to give me any specific answers to even my most basic questions. Sensing something was not right, I asked the woman how she spelled her surname, and she snapped "What you mean surname? I'm no good at spelling and besides I'm busy now." The woman then urged me to hurry and sign the helper, and to make sure I paid her at least double the minimum salary. Obviously, I did not.


I agree with Shaz26.


Employers should be very cautious and take the time to carefully check references before ever signing a helper. If it doesn't feel right, keep looking.

Our ex-helper has been calling our apartment in the middle of the night recently & interrogating our new (and oh so lovely) Helper. I mean, is this woman for real?! This is the same helper who told my Husband when we terminated her contract that there are "thousands of employers out there who would hire her". Shes been out of work since we fired her. I believe in Karma and her ringing our house when we have 2 small babies asleep (shes drunk too...but no change there!), is just bad taste. We were incredibly lucky to find someone so kind and lovely to replace her but, really, anyone worth their salt will be given a good reference and will be happy to talk to a new employer. Keep looking until you employ someone you are going to be comfortable with in/out your home.

Unfortunately such people are in fact for real. Thankfully you have much better now.


Turn off the ringer at night and be thankful. That's what I would do.

hi Shaz26

I can really symphatise and feel like I am reading a bit of what I have endured in the last few months. I had to terminate our helper after five horrific months. I am not into helper bashing however, when you have someone in your home whom you have tried to bring into your family nest and treat them fairly and kindly and yet, you are subject to their continued abuse and complete hysterics is really psychologically damaging to me and my family, but most of all, our young daughter.

I sometimes wonder who has the upper hand, the helper or the employer. Some - and I say some - not all - really hold us to ransom. Before everyone starts chiming in about not stereotyping or generalizing, there are some really bad helpers out there and it is our right to speak up or offer an opinion about bad helpers without being beaten up by other reviewers.

Our current helper is wonderful and we managed to speak to her old employer. She is in her late 50s but we do not care as she is kind, cooks brilliantly and like a mother to the kids.

The old helper is ringing up at all hours of the night, she rings our now new and yes, thankfully wonderful helper to interrogate her, she has spread rumours to other helpers in the block who now give me the evil eye..

As I work, I am basically at the mercy of helpers. This helper of us physically hit my daughter, took her to run personal errands, was on the phone all the time, one time when she was out shopping with my daughter, she bumped into our neighbour who promptly reported to me that she was at the mobile shop buying a mobile phone with my 3 year old in tow who was crying and fussing that she wanted to go home. She would also come back at midnight on her day off and once, did not get in till 1am. Once she came to me holding a knife and saying she found it in her bedroom – I was a bit frantic as she seemed almost psycho!

My old helper gave me the same old drill about loads of people wanting to hire her - she is apparently now working for an Australian family, who incidentally interviewed her when she brought my daughter - who was in her uniform - to the employment agency on a weekday... Poor little bubs told me that the helper dragged her to employment agencies for hours on end in her interview after school. She even was asked to go to a Mcdonalds to sign the contract with the lady of the house. (why that did not create alarm bells to the interviewing lady really begs belief! If she can secretly go out to and bring the employer’s daughter to run her personal errands she can surely do that with your child too!)

Anyway, in addition, we keep getting calls from mobile phone and finance companies chasing debt and I today received a letter from a solicitor of the debtor she owes. When I contact her to let her know this, she keeps sending me rude text messages –to tell me that she does not care, does not want to know and to ask me to stop contacting her.

I cannot stress HOW IMPORTANT it is for new employers to speak to the old employer. I did not - and boy, did I pay for it. The helpers will always say the old employer has migrated, does not want to be contacted. As Shaz is saying, anyone good will have employers lining up to provide good references for her.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, especially in the case of helpers. Many employers say bad things about previous helpers, or refuse to talk to prospective employers. So you can have a great helper who wants to change jobs and the old employer is talking crap about her.


Don't get me wrong, we can agree that a good, verifiable reference speaks strongly for a candidate.


There's also the matter of source. A glowing reference letter with a personal touch is one thing and certainly worth a lot. A cookiecutter letter from a person you have not spoken to for some reason should be taken with a pinch of salt. The best reference is of course one from someone you know or have at least spoken to at length.



As for "faking it", certainly most people are on their best behavior during an interview. But a good interviewer can see through fake and tease out the real person underneath.



For the record, our helper only had cookiecutter letters. Her previous employer was annoyed about her quitting and did not want to talk to prospective employers. So we hired her essentially without "good" references. However my wife, who has extensive hiring experience, knew after five minutes that she was the right person. As I said a good interviewer will tease out the real person underneath the "interview persona".

I totally agree everyone should just go with how they feel suits them the most when it comes to interviewing and hiring helpers.


But just my two cents worth. I feel that if you totally cut out any prospects the moment they cannot come up with a proper reference, that you might be missing out. Also in terms of going with your gut instinct, if your instinct tells you this is the right person, even if all the references aren't solid, that you can take a leap of faith too.


Our current helper had a cookie cutter letter from her previous employer. She was only employed for 3 months and it was her first job overseas. She was terminated with no cause listed by the employer. The employer did not want any prospective employers to contact them for questions. If I didn't care enough, all these were alarm bells that said no way should I hire this person. But I did.


I might have shared this in previous posts, but thought it is appropriate for this one again. First off, after going through close to a hundred pictures and CV's, when I saw her picture, I stopped and had a good impression of her already. I called her on the phone and she seemed pleasant enough. I invited her over to interview her. She explained she was helper number 3 at her previous employer. The first was the cook/cleaner, the second was the nanny for their only child and she was suppose to be more of the personal helper of the missus. She explained it was really difficult working for them because the employers were clean freaks, screamed at all of them constantly and expected them to live on $100 between the 3 of them for meals each day. She was called in to do random trivial stuff in the middle of the night, like 2 or 3 am. They were expected to be up at 6am to do the cleaning in absolute silence because the family members were all asleep. She also claimed the missus was often drunk so that added to the verbal abuses she got. She bared it because it was her first job and she had 3 kids and a husband to support back home. She was literally kicked out of her place of employment. She had Thursdays off and when she took it one day, her employer called from overseas to ask where she was. The other helper said since it was Thursday, she went on her day off. The employer got upset, called the building security and told them not to let her in. She spent that evening on the streets. She was given her stuff the next day and terminated.


Of course I took it all with a grain of salt. Since I couldn't speak to the employer, I spoke to the other helper instead. The story coincided and didn't sound fishy. I thought REALLY hard about it. I was totally worried about whether the story was true. I worried about not being able to talk to the employer. I worried endlessly about things I was told I should worry about; all the standard things everyone in this forum strongly suggest I look into. I asked my friends about it and in the end they all told me to just go with my gut instinct.


I just felt good when I spoke to her. I had a really good vibe with her. In the end my gamble paid off. She is wonderful with my 3 kids. I can tell that she really loves my baby and offers to stay behind on days off when my husband isn't around. She isn't the best cook, but she likes to learn and so far I can't complain. She said after I hired her the other helper at her previous employer asked if I was looking for another helper. She often tells me if it wasn't for her previous employer kicking her out, she wouldn't have ended up working for me.


We can keep debating on what is the best when it comes to hiring. I say it all boils down to a lot of luck!

Shaz26 and everyone: Thanks for the heads up!! I think we should all be careful when hiring someone who has the keys to our home and the responsibility for our family members!! I hope I'm lucky to find a good helper too!!