Unreasonable?

We hired a new helper about 3 months ago and just wanted some advice as to whether or not our concerns with her are reasonable or not.


She came with glowing recommendations from her first two employers both whom she had worked for for 10 yrs plus. The third employer she worked for for 8 yrs but eventually left as the wife was verbally abusive towards her. This I might add never came from the helper herself, but from several other people we know involved in the situation.


However, since she has been with us her reputation has not matched her work! She is a very nice person who is pleasant to have around the house but she has no ability to think for herself and her work has been incredibly sloppy and she has to be asked to do the simplest tasks 3 or 4 times. My husband's theory is that her previous employer has scared the wits out of her and she is so worried about doing something wrong she doesn't listen when she is being given instructions. Part of me agrees with this but even writing instructions down does not help and some of her work (or lack of) is truly sloppy/lazy.


She also slightly took me aback when we gave her Sat off (if we are in HK we normally give our helpers Sat off as well as Sun) and she disappeared and didn't come back until midnight on the Sunday. When asked she said that she was staying at her friends boarding house. I felt she should have asked us first but my husband said she had been given teh time off and it was hers to do what she liked with so I never said anything more to her about it adn she has continued to stay there whenever we give her teh extra day off.


Anyway, we were going to sit her down and have a proper talk to her about her work the weekend before last but she came back utterly distraught as her brother had died after a long battle with illness. She then announced that she had to go back for the funeral and had booked a flight leaving the next day. Fair enough but also terrible timing from our point of view as I am heavily pregnant and have been put on bed rest by the doc and so had my husband who has damaged his back.


No matter, off she went and with the help of some neighbours my husband and I limped through the week! She was due to return on the 4th but never appeared. We called and SMS'd her phone but it was switched off. My husband finally called her friend who owns the boarding house on the 5th and she said our helper was back and staying with her as it was a public holiday. My husband was initially furious and asked her to come back as amongst other things he had a client from out of town who was coming over to the house which despite our best efforts was not in a great state. She arrived 3 hours later with a friend, flicked a mop around the living areas and then announced she was off and would see us on Monday morning.


I am pretty annoyed with her for a combination of all the reasons above. Moreover I am worried that I am about to have a baby and have a helper who cannot even follow simple instructions. My husband having been furious with her initially for not coming back home when she has just had 10 days off and knew that both of us were pretty much bed bound, now feels guilty for calling her to come back when it was a holiday she is entitled to. He also thinks that her brothers illness could well have affected her work and we shouldn't sit down and criticise her the moment she is back from burying him. I do agree with him to a certain extent but part of me is frustrated and angry by her. Is this pregnancy hormones doing the or do you think I have just cause to feel like this?

I think you need to give your helper a warning in writing,

Give her a certain time to improve her work standards, make a list of the jobs you expect her to do, and show her how to do the things properly that she does 'sloppily'.

If you let her have a Saturday of as well as Sunday, she should respect the fact that many others don't get this much time off. You must tell her when is the latest time on a Sunday you would like her to come in, and that you will not tolerate her leaving her phone turned off.

Whilst I have certain sympathies in her 'loosing' her brother, she should not have assumed that it would be alright to stay with her friends when she should have returned back to your place on the 4th.

I think you will have to really be tough but fare, on this helper, 3 months into a contract, and already this much messing about, she must know where you will 'draw the line', and if she crosses it she goes.

When you have your baby and her work load is increased, do you think she will be able to cope with that? and do the housework to an acceptable standard.

Good Luck with having a talk to her, if she doesn't improve you may have to find another helper.

fully agree with cara points 1-6, but actually the emphasis should be on point1 1+2.


given her standard of work and the way she is treating you, i would suggest two things:

1. stop being nice with immediate effect. write down and announce the rules to be followed from there onwards. no more sat off, no more substandard work

2. i would seriously consider to let her go right away and get a new one before the baby arrives (you could always get a pui yuet for the first month). then practice point 1 on the new one


i suspect you are new to managing a helper and have been too lenient on her. she has taken full advantage.


on a separate note, have you personally spoken to the previous two employers about her references?

Two considerations about your helper. Firstly, if she has worked for a total of 28 years it means if she started when she was, say 20, she would be 58 by now and age/fatigue ect may be impacting her performance

Secondly, sometimes with helpers who have been with another family for many years they become set in their ways and may or may not be able to change to fit your family. For instance my helper previously worked for an extended family with elderly care, so was excellent at working very quickly but without much detail, she could clean 3 households a week, bath 2 elderly people every day, second day, pick the grand dau up from nursery, cook, shop......seriously, but took loads of time to adapt to a situation where she doesn't have the high volume of work but is expected to do it to a higher standard.......so my point is that it may take some time and it may not be 100 percent possible.

Agree with cookie09 as to whether you confirmed the references.

Just a math correction. If she started at 20 she would now be 48.

Hi,


Thank you all for your input.


Yes we had confirmed (verbal) references with the 2nd employers and also several close friends know here well as she previously lived in their building and they saw her on a daily basis with playgroups etc.


Lagrue, yes agree with your point as from what I understand in her previous jobs she was very much involved with teh children and so perhaps house work took a back seat. Her age (50 was a concern to me as well when we hired her) but she looked after 2 children and dogs before and assured us she wanted to start from teh beginning again. Our previous helper (with us for 4 years) was actually older (59) and often complained she didn't have enough to do and wanted to cook more (we both love cooking and so tend to cook ourselves most nights). However, some things just don't fit this pattern. For example, when I got back after Christmas, I found a random pile of neatly folded dirty clothes hidden under a pile of jerseys at the back of my cupboard (we were away so it wasn't like she didn't have tiem to wash them). I have to chase her all the time for up to date accounts and quite often they have been added up incorrectly (and quite often in a week there are only 3 additions to make - I have asked if she had a problem with accounts and she said no and when I ask her to do them again she comes back sheepish acknowledging the mistake and normally has some weak excuse for it). If I need her to do anything I have to write it down, then verbally take her through it and then sometimes it gets done and sometimes it doesn't.


Cara, yes, we did realise we were in the wrong asking her to come back on Sat and he did then aplogoise to her when she got here (yes, I know a little too late, however I beleive it is not illegal to ask a helper to work public holidays if you give them another day off within 60 days, not that that is the point!). However my husband was not angry or demanding on the phone to her. He explained that he was worried first off when she hadn't appeared back here as she was supposed to (we knew there was a big family argument going on about the burial and who was paying for it etc) or been in contact. He also said that she was really needed here and would be appreciated if she came over as we had this client comign over and were both really struggling.


What he didn't say is that we both felt quite disappointed in her. She knew the situation we were in - my husband when she left was on some serious medication that meant he could barely function (very drowsy) and had to be pulled up to even sit upright and could not even go to teh toilet without help. On my side, I have some pregancy complications meaning I shouldn't get out of bed for any length of time (and it is very painful when I do), plus am scanned every few days as if any of the complications get worse then they will have to perform an emergency C section (I am 34 weeks). We also live in a fairly remote area, 15 mins from the nearest shop which doesn't help. It is probably expecting too much but we both felt that given the state she left us in and the fact I could well have given birth whilst she was away it was disappointing that that was obviously the last thing on her mind and she a) didn't appear at back at home when she said she would and b) turned off her phone adn didn't reply to any messages.


Latest addition to all this is that she has just appeared for work about 10 mins ago having stayed last night out as well. Have no idea if I am in teh right or not (never ever had this (or any) issue with our last helper) but afraid I told her I was not happy at all. What was also strange was that when she walked in she looked very suprised and said 'oh, I thought you'd be at work'..!


We need to talk to her but my husband wants to wait a week before we do so as to let her get settled again after. However from my point of view, I could have a baby at any point (though hopefully it can hold on another few weeks) and at teh moment, no, I wouldn't trust her with a newborn.

fire her, seriously. you're not helping yourself but rather complicating your pregnancy/life

Thanks axpatguy, 48 duh!

I think just fire her. She's not a good fit for your family and its entirely irrelevant what her previous references have said. The fact that after such a long period off, she is late coming to work is also unacceptable, but she probably thought you wouldn't be in and so would have got away with it.

Also with the accounts, are the bills balancing out? If not tell her that if there is a deficit you will deduct it form her salary. There are some helpers who feel they have the right to skim the grocery bills.....my ex helper being one.....so this is a huge issue for me. Don't be a soft touch about it, firm but fair as I think when you keep cutting them slack in the end they just take advantage of it.

Also if you decide in your heart and mind to fire, you'll gear up and start searching for new help, but in the mean time the indecision is probably really affecting you.

Dear Clarita,


If I am, just fire her. Regarding not coming back to your home on the 4th and reasons it's a holiday the following day is unreasonable. She should have return to your place and if you do not need her the following day ( statutory holiday) as claimed then she just can have her off but in some instances that she is needed and given money in liue of her day off or other day day off. Please you should not have any guilt on this, this is unreasonable on her part. Terminate her. Give a month pay and other things that is entitled for her and let her leave rather than you and your husband suffer.


Best wishes,

Fire her and fine another helper who can be more reliable. You don't need any troubles especially with a baby coming. Goodness gracious. Made my blood boil to read all that!

If you can't trust her, fire her. Here's a thought. It sounds like you need a live in nurse for you and your husband for the next month or so. A helper cannot be expected to look after 2 adults who are on bed rest in addition to all the other work which needs to be done.

Ok so everyone says FIRE HER, GET RID OF HER. In fact, this seems to be the common response to narly all of the posts on this forum that ask for advice. Have you noticed that?

For me, I would say if you have given her fair warning that you are not satisfied with her work. (It should be written and specific) and you have reminded her again when you need to repeat something that you've already said....If there is a break down in your trust, then you would release her. But, before you shoot yourself in the foot showing her the door, make sure you have a plan B in place. Find another helper first before you fire her so you don't suffer.

Many DH who have years of experience do not adapt as well to a new job simply because they are so ingrained in their old ways of doing things. This is common for most people as they get older or have built up expertise doing one job for many many years. She is acting the same toward you as she would toward an employer with whom she has worked for many years already. Yank her up short and let her know that you don't know her personally, only what you found out be references. That she is not living up to her references and that you need to have assurance she can meet your expectations.

Use these words, "meeting my standards" or "my expectations" as these are common wordings to most helpers and they will understand how important you are taking this matter.

Remember you are the employer and she is working for YOU. She is not your houseguest, she is being paid for a specific job. Keep is professional and not emotional.

While I think that 40 pages may be a bit overkill for a helper, I do agree with madtown on this one. Clear contract and clear job description are key to a successful relationship. I would add frequent and frank communication.


You know, just like a "normal job".

A written contract is mandatory when hiring a helper. Most people don't bother with a job description because the job is perceived as menial. As madtown says this is a mistake. Write a description of duties and set up a work schedule before you even look for candidates.

Please excuse me if someone else has asked you this, but are you certain that her brother died or that she even had a brother? A friends helper last year pulled this one on her saying that her favorite aunt who was like a 2nd mother had died and she had to go back to arrange the funeral and affairs and it was all a big bunch of BS to get a 3 week holiday (with full pay because her employers were lovely).


We also in the past hired a helper with 12 years with one family and 6 years with the next who was 49 years old and so rude and stuck in her ways that after 2 months we were at our wits end. I was also very pregnant when we hired her and felt like I had no other choice. We eventually fired her and went without a helper (with a toddler and a newborn whilst renovating -not easy!) for almost 3 months until we found the right helper and now things couldn't be better. We had hoped that we would be hiring someone mature and well versed in her job but instead we hired a lazy, corner cutting cheat who answered back, couldn't cook, couldn't see the dirt and dust in front of her nose and had no idea how to even hold a baby after saying she was great with kids. I actually wondered if you were describing our old helper when you were describing yours! Does your helper have a lazy eye that looks off sideways? If so...it's a tiny world!


I say let her go and don't look back. You can hire someone who wants the job and wants to work hard and well to your standard. We were also questioning ourselves and wondering if we were being too tough but after hiring our friendly, hard working and efficient DH we know that in fact we had been too nice and had been taken for a ride. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Sounds like you're being taken advantage of. Also she's being disrespectful and inconsiderate to you and your husband. Helpers are suppose to help - not cause grief and frustration. It's too bad that you're worried about your helper, rather than relaxing and preparing for the birth of the baby!!!


I would quickly look for replacement and get a new one and go from there!

some of the onus lies with you the employer -- i think you need to be clear to her and you can let her real;ize that Saturday off means she should be back in the night and then go on sunday again for here weekly holiday-- that the extra holiday is a previlege and not a right.


also she needs to be put inplace as she is the employee she needs to ask/request your permission to go back home not just inmform you after she has arranged her travel already be it for whatever reason, sickness death etc.

as for not coming back to work on sunday after returning back from Phil-- ask her questions as whether what she did she thinks is right etc--so that she realizes and understands what is expected of her -- and also that you have been more than kind and fair to her in her time of need wherby she should happily reciprocate when yoy need her


also do not compare one maid (previous) with another. we are all different with different personalities and natures.


margaret

The only thing that matters is whether you feel you can trust her with a new born in the house for the coming two years not just the next few day it is a commitment for two years.


If it had happened to me I would put her on a one month notice and seek another helper.


Can you trust her to be in the house with a new born baby if she cannot follow simple instructions - I would not take the risk.