Posted by
cherubic37
12 yrs ago
I want to know if i am being unfair here.
I recently hired a helper to take care of our baby and household.
I gave her food allowance but said i will also provide water and rice. But then unlike other helpers who uses common sense in this free benefit, My helper uses our volvic water for even her coffee and instant noodle. ( even i use boiled tap water for such things). Also she eats twice as much rice as our couple eats. Just seems like she is completly taking advantage of the free water and rice. So. I bought her britax water purifier so she can just drink purified tap water and i also asked her to buy her own rice from now on.
Also given that we dont have a maid room she has to use our guest bathroom. But again. We have Manynguests coming over so i like to keep in clean and fancy. Our maid thinks its her own bathroom. She displays all her items (toothbrush comb deoderant soap etc) in the bathroom sink and always leaves her clothes hanging in the bathroom. Not to mention that she goes in the bathroom for almost an hour everynight to use her phone etc, completly making it very uncomfortable for us to use the guest bathroom. ( we have two bathrooms so sometimes me and husband need to both use the bathroom to look after the baby asap)
Also she. Buys so much food for herslef which is fine with. Me. Just that shetakes up like half of the refrigerator (which is tiny). She even puts her cookies in the refrigerator,,,why?? And all her juices (i told her she can just put what she wants to drink for the day)
She always leaves her shoes out side our door. (wegave her space in the shoe cabinet for her three shoes)I dont think she has any idea of what clean and tidy means. And that this is our house not hers,
As for the baby caring. I had to warn her several times about washing her hands before caring for the baby and making baby food. Also the right way to clean bottles. As she obviously had no idea how to di it right ( even despite the fact that her resumE says she has experience with babies) And i had to warn her not to leave the baby alone when i am not around. All these things i think are pretty much basic common sense.
Now yday. Our concierge tells us that our maid has been throwing away garbage without tying the end and just putting it in front of the door which leads to the trash room. Instead of going all the way into the trashroom where you throw away the trash in the trash can for the building cleaners to pick up.. This is common sense,, i have no idea what the hell she was thinking,,,
The other night. I came out to find our living room flooded with water as she did not properly tkae the water out of the towels before hanging them. To make the situation worse there was an electrical cord right next to the laundry hanger,,
I dont think she thinks twice when she does her job.,, water is dripping and the laundry are all still wrinkled when she hangs them.
Im now trying to decide whether her lack of common sense or laziness is something that can be changed over times or its best to just let her go now at early stage,
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First of all, let me classify things from a devils advocate’s point of view:
- Water: not common sense to use tap water (even boiled) where she comes from. Did you give her a clear instruction?
- Rice: completely not common sense that you compare her rice usage to yours. Palates and cooking styles are different (e.g. I eat about 1/10 of the rice that my wife eats)
- Guest Bathroom: not common sense again. Did you give clear instruction that it’s not her room, where to put her things, not to use it for other things than phoning, etc?
- Where can she do a private phone call anyway by the way?
- Usage of Fridge: again not common sense. In her country she might never had a fridge, so did you explain how it works, what goes in, what doesn’t need to?
- Shoes: Did you tell her that you do NOT want her shoes outside the door? Maybe she saw your offer of the shoe cabinet as optional?
- Hand washing: Seems common sense indeed, but do you really track her that much to know whether she has washed her hands or not? I would have no idea what our helper did even 1 minute before baby food cooking
- I would also venture saying that experience in caring for a baby has not much to do with knowing how to wash bottles. Maybe her previous family never used bottles?
- Baby alone: Agree this IS common sense (kind of) though both my wife and me do not observe it all the time right now with our new baby – and frankly that’s right so, e.g. if our 10 day old baby lies in the middle of our king bed without anything around her, you do can leave the room for 2 minutes
- Trash: I have no idea why you would think this is common sense. Did you show her where the room is and how it works? I would not know either if you didn’t.
- Wet Towels: Sounds like common sense indeed but could also have been an oversight/mistake
Look i am not trying to defend her since some of the things are really common sense. However i really think you (and your husband) should think a bit more on how you manage your helper and what kind of assumptions you put into her. Your text above sounds as if you haven't much instructed her at the beginning, always blamed her thereafter and now pick on small things.
If you do let her go - and that might indeed be the best for BOTH of you now - maybe worthwhile to think through how you get started with a new helper. Else you end up in the exact same situation again.
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Thanks for your reply
Actually yes we did give her clear instruction as to the problems above.
However im a little stressed out because the same problem keeps reoccuring or New problems occur which makes me wonder if she has common sense or not
Bottle trash. Keep ther things tidy etc. are things i have already given clear clear instructions to which she, feither forgets or simply does not do as told
For example.
The bottle. I tell her to wash it with babybottoe cleaner and sterilize in hot boiling water. after the water start boiling and that she should not leave in the nipples for more than 30 Seconds as it damages the nipples However she either puts all the bottles in cold water and then turns on the fire to start boiling them for 10mins. And then adter i tell her AGAIN. She then puts in about 1 cm of water so that it boils in 1 'min. Which is useless because ow cna you sterilize bottles in such shallow water? She simply finds it too long to wait till the water boils.
This is just one example of work that is not done thoroughly and makes me wonder everytime if she did something right,
Also as to washing her hand, she is obviouslycleaning the bathroom with strong chemical. But when i ask her to take the baby she just tkaes him. Without even washing her hands. And si when i tell her. You should wash your hands before you tkae the baby from me as you were cleaning. She just wahses her hands with water and comes back. Making me frustrated and asking her to go back and wash with soap.
As for the rice. Now that she is using her own rice i see that she is beinga lot more frugal and reasonable in the portion she eats,
As for the baby. We know for a fact that she spends almost 30 mins in the kitchen while the baby is in the babyroom (quite far from the kitchen) Using wifi. So we had to strongly ask her to stay only with the baby.. Which is only like for 2,3hours While i am out
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hmm sounds reasonable and more like a lazy helper (than one without common sense). i think she knows that she is taking short cuts, so on that basis i would say, let her go
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actually there is common sense. if you have worked in hk before as a helper. my previoys helpers surely had common sense when cleaning and taking out the trash. as my current helper is an experienced one i had to assume i didnt need to look after everything she does to see if she is using common sense. also. there are actualproblems. such as warning from ldg management on trash issue. and. wet electrical cord.
and actually given that this is her first month here and i have a new born. its only right i take a cliser look at everythinh she does to correct if she is not doing it right (in many case she wasnt). also i share all the baby work so i dont see why its wrong to ask her to do baby things my way.
and trust me i have always smiled and asked nicely. yet she does not seem to remember anything i said. also she uses the nicely furnished baby room which my baby does not use yet as the baby share the room w us. so i dont understand why she cant just go in the room to do her personal things.
anyway dont want to whine about this and that. i just wanted to know if thislack of commonsense is common to all helpers or only ours. thnks
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FIFIB
12 yrs ago
I think the helper is just being lazy and you better let her go. She is not going to change, you are going to become more and more frustrated because she is not doing the things as you asked her and if you keep repeating she is going to think you are a pest. Just let her go and write all these things that you don't like or expect so when the new helper comes in handle them to her.
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Firstly, Castingasparagii...I think your comments to Cherubic above are a bit harsh and undeserved, as my read into this matter, is that that are no underlying tones of racism in her remarks whatsoever. Must we always bring in "racism" into these discussions, when criticisms of a DH are raised.
Fyi, Castingasparagii...before you jump to any conclusions and started throwing term "racist" at others (including myself), I have lived in Asia for over 24 years, including over 6 years in the Philippines, and am married to a Filpina. My guess (though I could be totallly wrong) from your defensive attitude above is that you are from the Philippines.
The purpose of these discussion threads is not to hurl accusations at each other, but rather to provide the OP with a non-judegemental 3rd party perspective on the issues rased, through our own experiences.
In terms of the issues, which have been raised by Cherubic on common sense matters, I think alot of it has to due with cultural differences. My thoughs on these matters are;
1) Rice is a staple food of most Asian countries, Cherubic, so I would not give your DH a hard time about consuming what you may perceive as an excessive amount of rice. It's not like she is consuming the Angus beef in your fridge.
2) Water from the tap in the Philippines is not considered safe. Your DH was probablyy unaware that the Volvic water she is using is not the cheapest water. In any event, this is a very minor issue and looks like you have already properly addressed it.
3) On the matter of washing and sterilizing the baby bottles, as a recent father of a newborn baby girl myself, I can relate to your concerns. We have purchased a baby bottle sterlilizer (Dr. Brown...there are many other good brands out there, such as Avents etc.) and I suggest you buy one of these, to resolve this issue.
I am not going to comment on maintaining cleanliness in bedrooms and/or bathrooms, only to say that everyone has different standards of cleanliness and order in their households...but employing" best practices", in terms of cleanliness and hygiene is never a bad thing.
My personal take is that your DH is being lazy, and since you have asked her nicely and she still does not comply, perhaps she doesn't fully apprectiate that there are tens of thousands of other DHs who seek employment in Hong Kong, and she IS replaceable.
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thank you discobay. i just really needed a 3rd point of view.
i guess there are somethings i should have taken into consideration.
and maybe. she really has no clue at all on how to throw away trash etc.
i guess i will try to nicely give her more clear and thorough instruction and everything so that hopefully she can start working to adjusy to how I normally do thigs around the house.
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Thanks cara. I just needed to know if this was common for other helpers or not.
Water/ bathroom/trash. I have already Taken care of. I just needed to know if this action is common in other helpers.
Rice.. We already provide food allowance. And on top of that we were trying to provide rice as well. Thinking she would only eat as much as we do. (we are also asian we eat rice for all three meals). But she eats much more .. And we. Uy expensive rice. So although it might not bankrupt me. Ifpt does not make sense for us to cook rice everyday when we usually need to cook rice once every three or four days.
As for washing hands... It is common sense to wash them whenyou are dealing with new borns.
I have asked several several times. That is why im asking online whether this is my helpers laziness or just common among other helpers dealing with babies.
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FIFIB
12 yrs ago
In my personal opinion she is being lazy, but anyway give her the benefit of the doubt if you think it is worth it.
Buy her the thai regular rice and keep the expensive one for you and your husband.
I honestly never pay attention to the rice.
And regarding the hand washing I do not care what 1/20 people do in HK, USA, Canada or whatever. I think it is your right to ask her to wash her hands before handling the baby, after changing the diaper, or throwing the gargabe.
Maybe I've become a maniac, but i see in the buses, people specially guys picking their nose, then they grab the hold bars, we all touch them, so we should wash our hands.
Nothing wrong with learning or getting use to good hygiene habits.
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FIFIB
12 yrs ago
Cara,
She did not ask if this is a "helper" thing. She is venting about this particular case. And I did not say either this is a particular thingh of helpers. I said I see specially guys (men) picking their nose. The helper or whoever is taking care of the baby should wash the hands before taking care of the baby
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amyrr
12 yrs ago
I do think posting your complain here about your helper is one way to release your frustrations, loneliness and depression in life.You are talking about common sense but you ,yourself has no common sense at all. Why i said this? because, why post here about your problems regarding your helper when you could talk to her politely or in a nice way about her misdoings and i am pretty sure she would understand and change for the better , that is common sense.
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FIFIB
12 yrs ago
Hi Castigasparagii,
I do not exactly get what you are saying, but yes common sense depends on the upbringing.
I remember I was a teenager and while staying on a Mexican beach I was just entertained watching all this gringas (American ladies) getting of the boat when reaching the shore. Instead on seating on the edge of the boat and jump they were trying to put one foot down a leave one leg inside cannot tell you how many of them fell since of course the boat keeps moving. This I would think is common sense but not to these tourist.
But back to the subject what can you say about hanging the towels in the living room when they are still totally wet? I mean is not that the helper cannot notice the living room is getting floaded, that's pure laziness.
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amyrr ,.. im trying to be polite here,, as this is a 'discussion forum'
but can you READ my post all the way?
I DID NICELY AND CLEARLY ASK HER SEVERAL TIMES TO RECTIFY THE MISTAKES.
what i am wondering is if THIS IS A COMMONLY SEEN PROBLEM AMONG other helpers,, and that I SHOULD JUST CONTINUE TO tell her again and again until she gets it,, OR IF THIS IS NOT A COMMON CASE AND THAT I NEED TO CONSIDER FINDING A NEW MAID.
what is SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND< i JUST NEED PEOPLEs opinion,, PEOPLE WHO HAVE HELPERS AND HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE SAME SITUATION,
just so i KNOW IF THIS IS our HELPERS problems or COMMON PROBLEM>
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castingasparagii ..
I feel like i dont even really need to reply to this.
I dont think this matters at all, but im NOT from HK and im not a local 'hong konger', nor chinese. Geesh,
Just TRYING to DECIDE whether to let go of my helper (WHO IS LOOKING AFTER MY NEW BORN AND I HAVE TO GO BACK TO WORK SOON) or whether I CAN try to WORK WITH HER.
and given that finding a new helper is a hassel, IM TRYING TO GET THE OPINION OF OTHER people who had experience, to see if these situations get BETTER/ if this has all happened to them before,
and please dont call me RACIST,
We discuss about the lack of common sense for the helpers/nanny from our country when we had cleaning lady over ( OUR NATIONALITY)
WE TALK ABOUT this so that i KNOW whether my cleaning lady is being lazy and out of line OR WHEHTER its COMMON with my friends' cleaning ladies as well. its not about being racist to a new culture or nationality, its being totally in the clouds about what I should be expecting from a nanny in hk.
I really think you being HOSTILE about this and curving off the point is more ignorant,, if you REALLy think something about what I am saying is not right, please let me know in a civilized manner, as this is what the 'dISCUSSION' forum is for.. calling people racist and ignorant ,, is really not the answer to a 'DISCUSSION forum', i would be more than HAPPY to hear your point to see .
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You could consider upgrading your "tiny" fridge to something that could accommodate you all.. even her biscuits.
Wet towels "flooding" the lounge... is this a slight exaggeration? Perhaps the spin function is not working on your washing machine.. maybe you could replace this at the same time.
Also, in some (poorer) housing estates in HK its completely normal to leave rubbish bags outside your apartment door where its collected by management. Maybe her previous employer was from such an estate and she just needs more time to adjust to her new environment.
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My livlihood is within this industry and just inhe last two weeks, I know of three girls who have engineered themselves out of a job b/c of food. They are not given enough food in the morning (one employer counted her bread slices) and mostly allowed to eat only left overs. Which was OK but if you were asked to eat slimy choi, I doubt if you would be too happy. The truth of the matter is that food is very important to Filipinos. They will eat rice three times a day. They work hard and this is the fuel that feeds the energy for a DH. Now about your comments, you quoted
"Just seems like she is completly taking advantage of the free water and rice"
You are under contract to feed this woman, get over it and let her eat the rice! In this case it is you who are lacking common sense...
You quote:
She always leaves her shoes out side our door. (wegave her space in the shoe cabinet for her three shoes)I dont think she has any idea of what clean and tidy means. And that this is our house not hers,
Helpers who come and go will need to change shoes and will not wish to constantly put them away whilst coming and going all day. Is this really that big of a deal to you? If it is, you need to say that you do not want to see any item outside of the door and then clearly tell her where to put her shoes. Case closed, a matter of training, not common sense.
Last one here, and it's just my opinion, you quoted:
The other night. I came out to find our living room flooded with water as she did not properly tkae the water out of the towels before hanging them. To make the situation worse there was an electrical cord right next to the laundry hanger,,
I dont think she thinks twice when she does her job.,, water is dripping and the laundry are all still wrinkled when she hangs them.
If your floor is flooded from towels after washing, I think you ought to consider checking the spin cycle of your washing machine to see if it is spinning enough water out at the end of the cycle so the towels are not so wet they will drip and flood your floor.
Not being aware of water and electrical cords IS evidence of not having common sense.
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FIFIB
12 yrs ago
Well yes and no.
There are plenty of helpers that get the same $4,000 salary and they do a great job. You can teach someone new things but if someone is lazy how can you change that?
As for the OP taking care of her own child, there are plenty of families where it is really not an option and these families back in their home country would put the baby on a daycare center or a direct family member will take care of the baby.
Seems to me the OP is on a tight budget, small fridge, washing machine that doesn't spin properly, small flat so for her the bottled water is a luxury so she pays attention to it.
I would like to suggest to the OP to buy a water dispenser, the initial investment is about $2,000 but watsons delivers weekly to your place and the 18 lt bottle is about $45 i think.
Rice give the helper a 5kg bag a month, would it be reasonable? Sorry we do not eat rice have no clue.
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castingasparagii,
I couldn't agree more. Well said.
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Hi all ... To the point I don't really know WHY? I'm a helper , I've been here 6,5 years , but I've never heard things like this , I can eat what I want to eat, I don't need to buy the food by myself , I can use washing machine to wash my clothes , I share room with childs but I can put my things in that room also, I don't need to buy shampoo, shower gel, sanitary napkins also, boss buy for me , but not for clothes and shoes , I must buy by myself , and I get more than 4000 salary per month.
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Rice rations?? Oh my goodness.. just let the poor girl eat as much as she needs.
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Cherubic.....I would not even spend the time and effort, replying to individuals here, who are being judegemental, simply hurl accusations around and perhaps have a hidden agenda RATHER than just to provide you with some basic advice, based on their own experiences and different cultural upbringings.
I think issues like rice consumption and water use, are very minor and easy to resolve. Though, I will add that having lived in the Philippines for over 6 years and being married to a Filipina, yes they do eat alot of rice and "eating" is a favorite past time in the Philppines.
Only YOU know if the "lack of common sense" is the reason behind the problems you are having with your helper, or if she's just being lazy and not complying with (in some cases), very simple requests like "please, please wash your hands, before you handle the baby.
Don't bother replying to anyone here, who is trying to read between the lines or psyco-analzye what you mean by "common sense" !!
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Slightly going off the point here, but if the OP is stringent about hygiene then food hygiene also needs to be carefully considered: it is all too easy to get food poisoning from eating re-heated two/three-day old rice. Why not allow your helper to make it daily - which would also free up space in the fridge? Quote: (we are also asian we eat rice for all three meals). But she eats much more .. And we. Uy expensive rice. So although it might not bankrupt me. Ifpt does not make sense for us to cook rice everyday when we usually need to cook rice once every three or four days.
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I have been in the same boat. My last helper drove me insane with her lack of what I called, 'common sense'. She cleaned the kettle base with water and fused the whole house, I tried to explain it could have killed her but she kept doing it! I shouted at her fearing for her safety, but she still did it!! I caught her cleaning the loo with the dish cloth. She would just 'let go' of the mop and let it fall where it may, breaking things constantly. I ended up making her pay for her breakages, she then became a LOT more careful.
I explained to her why we had rules for hygiene and the consequences and eventually she understood. She now has her own baby and is very thorough with her cleanliness.
We have gadgets, appliances and sometimes extreme hygiene in the West and it seems ridiculous to people who survive without such measures. In my opinion, tell her and show her, if she still refuses, tell her she is on a warning, if she wants to remain employed with you, she has to follow your rules and not continue ignoring them.
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about your rules, when someone works in my house, I am the boss and I set the standards. My new helper had to adapt to the way I do things and she said it is different in every house. She is brilliant and I try to give her everything I can to make her enjoy working for us.
Regarding the wet washing, my helper did that quite recently but she put everything straight into the dryer. Thankfully my dryer has a drawer which catches the water and as it filled very quickly it switched off. When I asked her about it, she thought the machine was supposed to leave the washing that way. I asked her in future to tell me if there is a problem, if its very wet then to tell me.
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selda
12 yrs ago
OP, if you ever visited the Philippines you would realise how difficult it is for these women to adjust to such a different working environment as HK's, especially if they come from a rural area. Make some allowances and help her adapt.
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selda
12 yrs ago
i forgot to say that you are paying her just over HK$ 100 a day, which is less than the minimum wage. For that kind of money you cannot expect a trained nanny, just a helper. How much would you pay a trained nanny in your country of origin?
As the job title "domestic helper" implies, she is just helping you, and learning on the job. Think of it as an apprenticeship. You are training her to meet your standards, don't expect her to know your standards already. I have never had a helper, but friends who do have amazing helpers told me that it took at least a year to train them. They taught them how to cook their favourite dishes, how to shop for foreign food, how to use electric appliances, how to care for and play with their children, how to set the table etc. Basically they didn't take anything for granted. You shouldn't either. Effective instructions, patience and respect are paramount in any kind of training.
If you cannot train her effectively, ask a friend for help. Not everybody is good at training people.
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thanks for the very helpful advice willaim and selda
after giving more more effort to train her and get her use to my standard
she is now starting to follow through.
i am begining to be a bit relieved that maybe she is not a lazy person hut just did not know.
i am pretty much happy with her. although i still have to point out this and that. i think we are begining to understand each other.
thanks everyone
and for anyone who might have a similar problem. i suggest. for a month or two. you should have patience and try to teah her everything from a to bc. it might be that she really has. no clue.
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That's good that your problems are easing.
For anyone hiring a helper, of course there is a transition period. Both people need to get accustomed to each other - I mean, think how difficult it is for a helper to live in someone else's house, it's like living with your boss 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
He/she cannot read your mind and know every little way that you like to do things. And they surely can't remember everything you tell them, which means they will have to be reminded for a while.
And after some time, you can build up a relationship/friendship together. But it all takes time, patience and understanding on both sides. Of course, sometimes the relationship doesn't work out and if you can't solve the problems, then you just have to move on to another helper. But I always think employers should at least allow some times for both parties to get to know each other first.
I didn't think you were being fussy Cherubic. Everyone has their own standards and you hire a domestic helper to try to work to your standards. It's a personal thing and no one should judge you.
Good luck - I hope it works out. If not, keep looking and you'll eventually hire someone who will suit your family - personality and skill-wise.
We hear lots of stories of frustration about helpers - sometimes,
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BTW, I thought it is illegal to have a helper and not giver her a separate room.
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omairhr , who says she doesnt have a seperate room. then where do you think she sleeps, she has a nice room to herself and comfy fluffy mattress and blanket, and memory foam pillow we bought for her. i take the newborn who wakes up every 2 hours with me to sleep so she gets a good rest, if you are worried about that.
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perhaps because of : "Also given that we dont have a maid room she has to use our guest bathroom...."
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I am assuming your housekeeper is not from Hong Kong. I suggest that you try to find a local worker to live with you and clean up your mess. See how much that would cost. What you have here is 'you get what you pay for'. You want your toilet paper folded nicely, hire some one from the Four Seasons.
I know this will ruffle some feathers, but I think HK needs to really re-consider how it exploits the cheap labour in the region. People using housekeepers should treat this people with a bit of dignity and respect. The way some people talk, you'd think this was the era of slavery. Just because the market economics and legal systems allow this, does not mean people should be abused or deprived of basic dignity.
And while I am getting people worked up, let's keep in mind what this complaint really was: My hired help is eating too much rice and water! Oh heavens me, you poor thing!
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Based on my experiences to-date, I have concluded it that all the helpers are the same. You can try to train and educate, etc, however, they will all end up the same...either you give her another chance and try again by show and tell, or terminate her and hire someone new, but just bear in mind, that the new helper may do other things "w/o common sense" which will annoy you. So the question you need to ask yourself, is how much can you tolerate ?
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I agree with spambeano. Ridiculous that OP would complain and accuse helper of taking advantage by eating too much rice and drinking too much water when OP agreed to provide rice and water. Sickening how some employers look down on helpers.
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If you are giving her food allowance - tell her to get her own rice.
As for water, HK tap water is suitable to be used for boiling her rice. She can also boil water for her own regular use.
It is a fine line between your sense of cleanliness and common sense. You can't expect them to know your sense of cleanliness which you refer to as common sense. They have been brought up in very different circumstances - so explain to her your rules and tell her to follow them. You are the employer, it is your house, you are paying her - end of story.
She should have seen that the clothes were still dripping from the washing machine. Are you sure she used the machine right as she could have stopped it in the middle of a wash...?
In all of Asia, helpers in HK are the best paid, most protected and are given statutory holidays. Singapore (supposedly a free country) has a minimum salary for helpers which is a fraction of HK's, don't require employers to offer their helpers a day off in a week.
People in this forum blasting the OP after asking for help - shame on you for twisting the story and attacking the OP. Her request for other ppls experiences and assistance was never racist or an attack on a particular country.
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Dear Cherubic37,
I do understand how you feel, and had experience a similar case on our first helper and its totally much better on our second helper.
First helper:
Around early 40s, educated , experience in working abroad ..
We had a room and own toilet for helper.
My helper has major attitude and lots of compliances;
- complained about HK housing has no privacy and requested for a addition 2000 allowance to say out.
- asked for food allowance because she don't like pork because pork makes her FAT. Fish must be cod and loves beef.
- she wants her choose Branded washing detergent for her own clothing even though in the contract its written provided by helper.
- woke up only at 7:30 even though we asked for 6. a.m ; We allowed her to sleep at 9:30 but once a week when we eat out she will show tantrum. (broke one or two of Westwood glasses., )
She work is totally bad even after training. She only interested on whats the dress code for our christmas party.
It had totally over my limits after 8 month. Finally got the second helper.
She has a family to support, language not as good but good learning attitude , treats my children well and always has a smiling face which is very different with the first.
Cleanliness both not up to my expectation but acceptable after adjust and adapt and learning.
No need new bed, no need additional food allowance, no need to stay out and overall acceptable.
in Sum, its in the person attitude and self responsibility.
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Just want to point out that you are trying to make your first helper work 15.5 hours a day (leaving 8.5 hours to bathe, relax, wind down ect 6 days a week), just because the second one doesn't complain doesn't mean what you are doing is right - I doubt you work 15.5 hours straight a day! Then on the one day a week when you go out she will be working 17-18 hours depending on when you get back in......I mean reread your post and see if your working hours demands are reasonable.....
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I think you just need to take a step back and have a think and feel. It sounds like you need a helper but don't want a helper (there could be a lot of emotional / mental conflict going on within). She sounds like she is irritating you and you are going to find faults regardless. Yes yes, some you can fix. You need to ask yourself - is the chemisty and trust there? If not, nothing else matters, you need to find another helper to support you and your family - especially as you are going back to work. I hope I have helped.
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My 2 cents:
I only find 1 thing out of the many described from the OP, Cherubic37, as having lack of common sense -- leaving a puddle of water in the living room (or flooded as per original posting)
All the other items seem to fall under "insufficient training" if the OP considers them to be common sense. Regarding shoes left outside the house -- actually, 1 or 2 pairs of shoes are routinely left outside the flat accross the hall from ours. Using volvic water, taking up space in refrigerator, leaving her items out in the bathroom: were any of these originally explained as not to do? If so, then there is a problem with the helper. If not, then OP needs to advise helper on the expectations.
As for complaining about helper eating too much rice....really? In my opinion, however much rice she eats cannot be enough in my mind to revoke the "free" rice offer. Everyone consumes different amounts of food. OP has indicated helper buys a lot of food, so clearly she needs to eat a lot. Doesn't seem like she's taking advantage of the free rice, but eating until she's satisfied/full.
In summary: I believe there's not much to rely on as "Common sense" in domestic work. One family's way of doing things can be completely different than another's. The most common sense is to follow the instructions of the employer.
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The only lack of common sense I can see, is the whole idea of exploiting women from poor nations and bringing them to richer nations to work under seperate labor laws.
This in what is suppose to be a 21st century global city? When will Hong Kong stop this archaic practice? Why can't the helpers come from Hong Kong or China? Why do they have to be Filipino or Indo? Easier to exploit perhaps?
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Of course most Hong Kongers don't want to work 16 hours days, 6 days a week and have to sleep in a crawl space with a so called "helper bed". Why would a local want to join the FDH scheme when they are under the protections of the Hong Kong labor laws. That is the issue, Hong Kong has two sets of labor laws. One for its own people, another for the darker skinned SE Asians she imports to do the dirty work.
If Hong Kong were to hire locals, or even the mainland chinese. The working conditions would naturally improve. People have a harder time being mean to their own race/culture. It would be harder to shove your helper in a sleep box at night after a 15 hour day if you knew your daughter could grow up to be one......
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selda
12 yrs ago
I am not surprised many people choose not to have children in HK.
The HK government does not provide affordable childcare care centres and women are expected to hand over their kids to a domestic helper who works crazy hours, is away from her own children and therefore prone to anxiety and bouts of sadness, is expected to juggle housework, cooking, laundry, shopping, walking dogs, etc.
In other countries people who can't do their own housework hire a helper just for that, pay her/him a decent wage and send their children to child care centres where they are looked after by trained nannies, play with other toddlers, and are stimulated.
HK has a lot of catching up to do to become a world city.
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If Hong Kong were to hire locals, or even the mainland chinese. The working conditions would naturally improve. People have a harder time being mean to their own race/culture. It would be harder to shove your helper in a sleep box at night after a 15 hour day if you knew your daughter could grow up to be one......
Uhhhh sorry but no, in the bad old days in China and in the West servants were pretty much your country men and the treatment DEPENDED on the employer!
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I think you can forget your helper. Terminate her with one month notice & try to find a replacement. Our helper after 6 years did not re-new her contract & she has left some time ago. Now we have found out what a "comfortable life" she created herself in our household in doing everything extremely slow. It seems she was following the slogan: If I do fast I will only get additional work. We have asked her to tidy up the cabinet under the kitchen sink once because it was a MESS. She did it and it was the same MESS as before. Now I have asked the same our new helper. She did it & it is now completely tidy & clean. There can be big differences from helper to helper.
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Get a new one. And make everything clear in writing if you have to.
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Why do people assume on here that if someone has a problem with a helper she is automatically being abused? Not following instructions? Thats because she works 15.5 hour days and is beaten and left to starve on a mattress. Come on, I appreciate some helpers are living a crappy life but on the whole, certainly with all the helpers in my circle are treated well and are happy to be where they are.
That will no doubt encourage the 'would you be happy etc etc' well maybe not. I have worked jobs I hated, made to work stupid hours and in the west been paid less than my male colleagues, but it was better than working in a shop or in a factory. There are alternatives wherever you come from. They come here for a better living, and for the most part are looked after by employers wanting to do right by them.
There is good and bad on both sides of the fence, lets not forget that. I object to the 'all helpers are thieves and liars' as much as I hate 'all employers take advantage and make their helpers live in cupboards'. The self righteous are usually the worst offenders.
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my 2 cents -
in answering OP - NO, not all helpers are alike. We have an incredible helper we hired from the Philippines. She is in her 30's 2 kids who are teenagers and a husband with seasonal labor on his CV. She is good to the kids, she is very clean and she thinks for herself. If she is in doubt, she asks.
This is all because from the start I told her what was expected. We expect her to hoover daily, mop two to three times a week (this is HK, its gets dusty as hell), do laundry every other day and not wait until the hamper is full and we are underwearless. She washes up after we cook. She eats what we eat, be it Japanese, Korean, Chinese or Italian. She is very adventerous with her eating habits and that has worked out great for us. We provide her with unlimited rice if she would like to cook meals herself, she can use our Brita filtered water to her hearts content...and well, anytime we order groceries online, she is welcomed to request things she likes, including toiletteries.
She has been told that we prize a helper who can think for herself and shows initiative, and cleanliness is important to us, also, our main deal breakers would be dishonesty, stealing and throwing wild parties at the house when we are not there!
I can tell you, she is simply awesome, and in order to keep her that way, we send her back to the Philippines every 3-4 months to see her family, and for this, she is super appreciative of the job she has. Tickets there and back can be had for as little as 1K, so really, no reason why you can't look at a helpers bonuses as coming in flights. DH's are treated as subhuman here. They are expected to spend 2 years away from family, children and lousy husbands...and then, in most cases, given a "food allowance" of a meagre 700 something bucks. What the F***!
I mean, seriously, that can be spent in one meal out as a couple at a nice place or at a cheap place with your family. You expect someone to live a month on that and still work the hours you are up til you sleep? Our helper works from 8am to about 8pm, if not earlier...we don't need someone to be at our beck and call for a glass of water, can get it ourselves.
I see too many folks who complain about Sundays and "Oh, Sunday was exhausting because we had to look after the kids ourselves!" *SMH* Dude, they are your kids, you chose to have them. Now act like a parent! And FFS, if your helper is not doing what you instructed her to, its either poor management or crap employee. Which either means you sort yoursh*t out, or fire her.
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nice post justin credible. that was refreshing to read.
- far too many people with helpers who can't financially afford one, and thus they try to expoit the system to the limits
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OMG...You see how much rice she eats? WOMAN, LET HER EAT AS MUCH AS SHE WANTS!! She is a human being too, she has feelings AND SHE HAS HUNGER THAT NEEDS TO BE SATISFIED. I dnt know why you are making such a big fuss of her eating. I bet you don't give charity!!
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abl
12 yrs ago
The explanation for the rice is simple - you give your helper a food allowance plus rice. She will try to eat as much rice as possible so that she can save money from her food allowance. Once she has to buy her own she will cut down the amount she consumes to suit her budget. That is the reason why I don't give my helper a food allowance but allow her to buy her own food provided it's within a reasonable amount (I check her bills only very occasionally). Otherwise they will try to scrimp and save and may end up eating cheap bad food if they are given a separate allowance just to conserve cash. I presume it should still be affordable to most employers to feed their helper reasonably well and it pays in the long term to do that.
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good point abl. i have actually instituted a rule with our helper that out of her food allowance she must spend at least 75% (tracked against receipts).
of course she could still play the game with that one by submitting receipts from her friends, etc, but i think it did instill the right behavior.
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I was thinking of what Justin Credible wrote. It brought to mind a book review that I recently read. I am forgetting the title but it began as a couple of Eastern Europeans who had helpers for everything since the labor cost was and is redicuoulsy cheap in that region. They left for a better opportunity in the US. When they arrived they unfortunately didn't know how to cook and had to eat at cheap diners because they no longer could afford the wages of a helper nor afford a better place to dine. Some locals and people who have no idea what the cost of labor is in a "developed" country have no concept of worker or human values. They believe 12 hours days, 6days a week for US$500.00 is rightgeous. Obviously, HK law allows it so they believe it is so.
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really cookie? you take the time to ensure that your helper spends 75% of her food allowance by checking receipts? Do you also make sure she brushes her teeth at night before she goes to bed?
With all due respect you sound like a control freak! How would you like your employer verifying your dietary intake through receipts?
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tred
12 yrs ago
Hi,I just don't get the idea that from the very start, how did you ever go about the interviews and all? After the processed papers, it was when you found out that she has no" commonsense". So, was it the same when you should be choosing the very best from the rest? Perhaps, your sense was not just that "common".
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"really cookie? you take the time to ensure that your helper spends 75% of her food allowance by checking receipts? Do you also make sure she brushes her teeth at night before she goes to bed?
With all due respect you sound like a control freak! How would you like your employer verifying your dietary intake through receipts?"
yes unattendedbag, it's what i did and i did it for two reasons: a) when she was new to us and we had to build trust, i wanted to ensure that she eats enough and not just the free good we give her. this is to ensure she had a good health and partly also because helpers like to save every cent, especially at the beginning when they need to pay back the agency loans in the philippines.
secondly, the accusation of not providing enough food is a common one if your helper tries one on you. so a certain level of control in my mind was warranted to get things started.
i didn't check what she bought but asked her to tally up the receipts once a month. we did this for about 2-3 months until there was enough trust built between us. since then i have left the requirement in our commonly agreed guidelines but don't check against it anymore.
i don't think the above constitutes a control freak but rather someone who understands where the focus of helpers could be in the early months, cares about her health and builds trust between employer and employee in the early months.
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abl
12 yrs ago
It seems some people are incredibly naive about what desperately poor people will do to save money, which includes underfeeding themselves. How would an employer ensuring that her helper eats well constitute slavery? The employer has a choice of providing food OR an allowance. The allowance IS meant legally to buy food to be eaten! Sheesh!
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No, it seems some people have way too much time on their hands. Demanding receipts to prove your employer is eating is absolutely crazy, a complete violation of privacy, and a complete waste of your time.
Your helper should be judged on her work performance, not her diet. If her dietary intake is causing her work performance to suffer, than you should consider finding a new helper. She is your employee, not your human slave to control 24 hours a day. SHEESH!
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abl
12 yrs ago
It's not my helper we are talking about here if you bother to read the posts. You just seem blinded by your hatred for employers of helpers for whatever reason. And it's a FOOD allowance, but you are obviously not interested in an adult conversation.
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OP, my personal opinion is your maid is not a person without common sense, she is just plain lazy and has this "Why would i care" attitude, Philippines probably is a third world nation, but generally Filipinos are sensible people, unless your maid comes from a very remote province which is unlikely as she speaks English, she must know the danger of dripping water near the electrical cord/socket, she just doesn't care. One thing I learnt from my experience is lazy people can't be trained; they just don't want to be trained.
On a separate note, you may wish to lower your standard or expectation from a helper/maid, bear in mind they have very different background and culture from us. For me a maid who is 75-80% performance is acceptable. Perhaps you also need to advise her which is her primary concern, the caring of the baby or the cleanliness of the household and etc… , so she has a clear understanding of her priority, again, caring a new born is very tiring and between the two of you, you should work out a schedule which enable both of you to have sufficient rest. If you do happen to have a new maid, you should be firm right from the beginning of your expectation and make sure she understands… there is absolutely no need to keep on repeating rules and expectation, this would only stress the employer-employee relationship, either she can do it or she can’t… and BTW, do not trust 100% of what their resume states, talk with previous employers to grasp a general knowledge how a maid perform. This is by far the most reliable way that I can think of.
Although the monthly salary is HKD3,740, adding up the daily expenses (water, electricity, meals, shampoo and etc), medical expenses, insurance, flights and long service payment… I would consider a monthly expense of about 5-6K, it is not cheap to have a live-in nanny but if you do get a good one, it is money well spent. Otherwise, as in OP’s case, it could be an added burden…
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Maybe you can find another helper if you are not comfortable with her anymore.
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The rice thing baffles me. How much is a bag of rice anyway and how much did she eat in $ terms?
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