Posted by
Momoftwo
17 yrs ago
Our good driver of 1 year now (he's been driving in Hong Kong over 10 years though)... scratched our car while parking. The incident is purely because of his own poor judgement (no outside factors causing it).
The damages were $ 3000, but there is still evident damage (tiny paint off).... our driver paid for the damages already. Do you think I should reimburse him ? All of it? None ? or half ?
Please support our advertisers:
OK, well you pay him and insure him presumably. So you should be covered for this sort of thing. If he is your employee you should reimburse him. Accidents happen in jobs.
Please support our advertisers:
At the signing of the contract, we agreed any "extra" expenses incurred on the job that is a result of HIS mistakes, we wouldn't pay for it.
However, I just feel bad for him because it was so expensive.
He hasn't asked us to reimburse him. We are worried, if we reimburse him completely, how are we protected from any reckless driving, or carelessness on his part in the future?
Please support our advertisers:
I think yopu should reimburse him it was an accident after all, just tell him that you are happy to pay for it this time as you appreciate it was an accident but the next time it would be down too him this should keep him being careful. Or offer to split it with him at worst.
Please support our advertisers:
Well this being HK accidents will happen, so easy to drive over rubbish in the road etc and scratch a car - I know, I've done it myself. BUT I was insured. It seems the driver in this case is not insured (illegal) or else this could be dealt with quite easily.
Please support our advertisers:
You really can't charge an employee for accidents at work - not fair at all, as long as it was in the course of his work.
Please support our advertisers:
We will reimburse him, but I will have to warn him to be more careful. Each careless mistake he makes costs us thousands of dollars, but luckily, it's just the car, I am more worried about the safety of our chlidren if he is careless like this.
It's just simply due to his "carelessness" and not paying attention, that's the case of this accident.
Insurance- yes, I have insurance for the car, and for the driver, however, how does this cover my damages?
Please support our advertisers:
Well if you have fully comprehensive insurance you will be covered for damage to the car whether you were or weren't at fault. This includes scratches.
Please support our advertisers:
If your driver is legally insured as an employee, I am wondering why you would have a clause in his contract that means he has to pay to any expenses due to his own error? Surely this is bordering on illegal?
I'm sure he is embarrassed if the accident was due to a moment of misjudgement and by doing the absolutely right thing and paying him back for the damage, he will be humble enough to take more care?
There should be no question at all in this circumstance - you get the insurance to cover it, or you pay it. Your car, your employee, your responsibility.
Please support our advertisers:
Transhk, I have no excess on my own insurance and have protected no claims which allows me to make claims without losing my NCB. This is common, although for $3000 I'd probably do it myself.
Things are different if you are employing a driver for work. That requires cover for business. And that is a different set of rules anyway!
Please support our advertisers:
I am not at all sure that the insurance will cover this. For example, my own motor insurance states that if I scratch my car whilst parking it, I have to pay the first $5000 of the repair bill. Which basically means I have to foot the whole repair bill each and every time, because all my scratches are little ones.
If I were going to hire a driver, I would probably set a cap on what I am willing to pay for damage caused by him. For an experienced driver, I would probably say about $3000 per year. If he were to exceed the cap, I would charge him the extra and if the problem continues, think about getting a replacement.
I learned to drive 3 years ago, in the first 2 years I scratched my car quite a bit. But now I only do it about once or twice a year. And the scratches are small, about $1000 - $1500 to fix. If the OP paid $3000 I think she's either going to an expensive repair shop, or her driver made a really big scratch. In my opinion, an experienced driver like the OP hired really shouldn't be clocking up bills for more than $3000 a year, or $5-6000 per 2 year contract.
Anyway, in this case maybe give him the money back, and use that moment to have a chat and set up a cap for repairs for scratches. But I wouldn't worry about your kids' safety just from this, scratching a car whilst parking is not in the same league as driving too fast or recklessly, making seriously errors of judgement, not wearing seat belts etc.
Please support our advertisers:
Snow Rose, all insurance companies have different excesses and ways of doing things. Thing is if you hire a driver you insure him for business driving as that is his work. If you insure as personal then it's actually illegal and insurance will not pay out.
Think of it this way, at work you carelessly fall or bump into something and damage it. Are you expected to pay as it was your carelessness that caused it? Of course now, employers should be insured against these things. The same goes for a driver. My cars have been scratched quite a bit, sometimes whilst parked and someone knocks the door, sometimes through road rubbish or things falling from other vehicles. It happens. Never scratched my own car but have had to repair many times myself
Please support our advertisers:
Transhk, subject to a maximum of 2 claims in a 12 month period and no more than 3 in a 36 month period or something like that. Not at home so would need to check it all. Quite normal in the world of insurance! Same as in the UK.
Still this does not apply as the OP was talking about a driver and that is business insurance and not the same as individual.
I'm insured through Manulife and one of their re-insurers. Transferred my 60% from UK a few years ago. Been insured with Axa and Sun previously here. Axa I dropped because of their stupid excesses.
Excesses always follows the premiums paid. You pay top dollar you get low to 0 excess. You pay less and your excesses will be more. Very normal and insurers use this as well as a variety of other information to generate your premiums.
Please support our advertisers:
I like Snow Rose's idea. I will pay for the damages this time (reimburse him) and have a talk with him that per year, I don't expect to pay more than $ 3000 damages... hopefully, none at all. Because any more than that, I would let go of the driver. Think he will understand my point.
Thanks all.
Please support our advertisers:
Monoftwo,
I think you are really missing the point. By all means, talk to him about his carelessness and even talk to him about letting him go if he keeps having little accidents, if that's how you feel.
But legally, you CANNOT expect him to pay for any of it out of his own pocket, now or in the future. He is your employee, and you inevitably are financially responsible for his actions whilst on the job. Have you actually insured this person (as an employee?)? You are legally required to do so.
You don't get to pick and choose what you are prepared to pay for.
Please support our advertisers:
According to the Law, you are not allowed to deduct more than 10% of the salary per month for damages incurred by your contracted helper, I assume this also applies for a driver who is under the same type of contract.
Please support our advertisers:
http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/FDHguide.pdf
This link has the most commonly asked questions about damages (and lots of other stuff) Chap 3 is about damamges and wage deductions.
Please support our advertisers:
Rachrobin, what point did I miss? I said I am reimbursing him. However, as an employer, don't I have the right to choose an employee who is "less" careless, and less costly for me to employ ? I am simply saying, I am putting a "budget" for ourselves, if this driver costs us "unpredictably" more than what I set, then it's time to let him go.
Of course, I have insurance for 3rd person liability, and a policy for him. However, I don't have comprehensive insurance for our car, which means I have to pay for the damages on our own.
It's a "human" nature question, if your helper washed your favorite sweater in the washer, (when it should be dry cleaned or something).... it's ruined. Then you ask her to pay for it? I wouldn't, but time after time she does it again, my resentment and dis-satisfaction certainly will build up, resulting my wish to terminate the contract with the helper. However, he offered to pay for the damages, didn't even show me the receipt, I am offering to him our reimbursement, and no hard feelings towards him as I appreciate his efforts and good intention.
Case closed. I am reimbursing him completely for the damages.
But it doesn't mean we cannot warn him about his driving and being more careful !
Please support our advertisers:
Momoftwo,
I was referring to the point you made about making a 'cap' on what you will pay in regards to accidents. Effectively saying that if he has another scrape this year, you will not pay it. I do not believe this is legal or fair. (Particularly after reading subsequent posts on this subject).
As I said in my previous post, you have every right to discuss your disappointment, expectation and the fact you will look for another driver if it keeps happening. I completely understand that. I would do the same.
The point is that whilst he is under your employ, you do not have a choice on whether you pay for damage to your car or not. It is ultimately your responsibility, not his.
It is your choice, however, not to have comprehensive car insurance and thus you face the consequences when accidents happen.
I know in this instance you have decided to reimburse him, it bothers me that you actually had any hesitation in doing so in the first place.
Please support our advertisers:
meiji
17 yrs ago
how about speeding tickets? how about getting parking tickets? (all result of the driver's actions).... how does one negotiate these? I think it's unbelievable how many of these replies indicate unconditional "love" for their drivers!
I think half and half is fair enough. By the way, the $300 damages clause, isn't that just referring to DH in the houshold? Not applicable to drivers? They do have a different salary, amendment to the contract, and special permit than the average DH.
Please support our advertisers:
maxis
17 yrs ago
It is noted you say "our GOOD driver of OVER 1 YEAR now", and also says "there is still evident damage (paint off)"
1. A HKD3000 scratch in one year is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
2. Take it back to the repair shop and have them fix it properly
3. Whether or not you manage to squeeze caps and conditions into contracts in HK and someone agrees to sign, doesn't necessarily make it legal and certainly doesn't make it right.
4. Anyone could make an error at work, and his job only involves a car. Many of us could make an error and cost our employers very very large sums of money (like more than our own entire assets could possibly ever be).
5. If you make him feel nervous and paranoid, he'll drive further to find bigger parking spaces so the car couldn't get a scratch, and also make him lose confidence and we all know what that would result in.
6. As they say, "just roll with it" and be thankful we live in a country where we can so affordably have the luxury (as indeed it is) to have other people drive us around, and do many the things in life which are tedious and undesirable.
7. Add up the cost of running the car in total per year, plus the drivers salary and the expense of housimg him too, then divide 3000 by that total and see what % increase he has caused in your car budget. It will turn out to be less than 1.5%.
8. If he has been driving in HK for 10 years and is a good driver as stated, and hasn't done any damage in 1 year anyhow, it would be highly improbable that reimbursing him would make him now become reckless and negligent, and endanger the children.
9. If he was just a contractor, not an employee of yours, then you should make him pay.
10. As scratches happen easily to cars and it is his job, it would be a very uncomfortable feeling for him to know that on any day he could end up losing a significant porition of his salary to pay for it.
Please support our advertisers:
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail