Posted by
circleimc
18 yrs ago
sometimes i need my helper to work on a sunday or public holiday i was wondering how much people pay their helper for these odd days.
Is it the same for a sunday and a holiday?
thanks
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Remember that legally you can't do this - she can work the Sun/PH, but you need to give her a day off instead. But, if you want to do this and you have a good enough relationship that you can be sure if it all goes wrong you won't get in trouble with the Labour Dept, then I would work out what she gets paid per day, and then work up from there. When I was younger and working in casual jobs, public holidays always got double pay.
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I really don't understand how can people hire an FDH but never bother to find out the responsibilities involved...
All the information is the Government's FDH Guide. The English version is in pdf form below. A hard copy in other languages is available from government offices. Read it.
http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/FDHguide.pdf
Edited highlights for those employers who ...
Q4.3 Can I require my helper to work on his/her rest day?
A No. Except in unforeseen emergency, you shall not require your helper to work on his/her rest day. An employer who compels the helper to work on a rest day is in breach of the Employment Ordinance.
You may however, with the consent of your helper, substitute some other day for the appointed rest day. The substituted rest day must be granted within the same month and before the original rest day or within 30 days after it.
Q4.6 Can I require my helper to work on statutory holidays?
A Yes, but you have to give him/her: not less than 48 hours’ prior notice; and
an alternative holiday within 60 days before or after the statutory holiday.
Q4.7 Can I ask my helper to forfeit a statutory holiday in exchange for extra wages with his/her consent?
A No. You must not make any form of payment to your helper in lieu of granting statutory holiday.
An employer who contravenes this provision is liable to prosecution and, upon conviction, to a fine of HK$50,000.
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because of my line of work my helper almost never has off on a sunday or on a PH. However she if fully compensated by a rest day in every 7 (actually usually more than 1)and a PH before or after the actual day. It is harder to find helpers ...but they all know upon signing the contract that Sunday off will be rare. They also know that if they have church or community needs on sunday and their work is done well I am fine with them skipping out for a few hours during the day.
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ritad
18 yrs ago
However she if fully compensated by a rest day in every 7 (actually usually more than 1)and a PH before or after the actual day.
yes she did
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Thanks Rita, but unless you know something I don't, you are mixing up 2 different posters. Circleimc is asking her helper to work PHs/Sundays as well as the other 6 days of the week, hence the need for extra pay. Chefcrsh isn't, and so doesn't.
So, no, she didn't.
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when my husband is away on business trip, my helper always work for me on sunday or public holiday and i pay her $120. she actually prefer to work for me and get the extra cash than to have her day off because she claimed that she has nothing to do on her day off anyway. she gets to have her afternoon nap while working for me, better than staying under the hot sun in victoria park and have no nap no matter how tired she.
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ritad
18 yrs ago
oops..ut if your helper does not mind working..i think it is only fair you pay her double..i mean the holiday pay and the working extra pay...double salary day basically,,and also add one day holiday at end of her contract..instead of 7 days...give her the added days for working..( of course this added holiday is not paid)..i think that is only fair
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ritad> What mother 2005 is doing is against the law, therefore the amount is irrelevant.
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Q. from Eureka:
Does rest day mean every Sunday?
A. No. This is the same for any employer, even a major bank.
Q. from Eureka:
Or every 7 days you are allowed a rest day. What if an employer needs a rest day to be during the week and the helper agrees at first but later changes her mind.
A. From the Government's FDH guide:
"Rest days shall be appointed by you and may be granted on a regular or an irregular basis. Unless the rest days are on a regular basis, you should notify the helper his/her rest days before the beginning of each month."
You decide at the beginning of the month. She doesn't decide for you.
Q. from Eureka:
What do you do if she stays out later than the agreed time as a revenge for not giving her Sunday?
A. You don't have to give her Sunday off. You can give her another day off instead. She should be aware that Sunday is not "guaranteed". If you find your maid is seeking "revenge", reconsider the maid or your demands.
Q. from Eureka:
Isn't the rest time already over 24 hours if you count the night before rest and the night of her rest day until she works the next morning?
A. Twenty-four hours is the minimum. You could agree to her rest period running from 6pm on Saturday to 6pm on Sunday if you don't want to give her any more than the minimum.
Q. from Eureka:
What is the gov saying by no less than 24 hours?
A. From the Government's Guide:
"You should provide your helper at least one rest day in every period of seven days. A rest day is a continuous period of not less than 24 hours."
Twenty-three hours is not permitted. A few extra hours is permitted and given at your discretion.
Q. from Eureka:
Does it mean all helpers can stay out for 24 hours?
A. Helpers may do what they wish on their rest days. Presumably your employer does the same.
Q. from Eureka:
But they are not allowed to live out?????????
A. Correct, it is against the law for an FDH (contracts since 2003) to live out. Again, a helper may spend a rest day how he/she chooses. The odd night out on a rest day is not regarded a "living out".
The laws are there for protection and, as with any jurisdiction which has the rule of law, should not be disregarded under a "flag of inconvenience".
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MayC
18 yrs ago
Eureka, I think what generally happens with helpers is that they will go out early in the morning, like say 7-8am, then they will come home around 10-11pm, sleep and work again the next day at 7-8am. This means that their sleep is also included in the 24 hour calculation. Someone please correct me if this is wrong.
Hmm, I haven't had the problem of my helper staying out till the wee hours of the morning. If that happens, I would be concern because she has to look after my little girl the next day and she may not have the energy to do so. I think the law helps us in this regard because it states that they are not allowed to live out... meaning they won't be wandering off in the night. This would prevent them from being too tired the next day but also so that we don't have to worry about their safety.
I do allow her to stay out if it's the long weekend or if she has two days off or more. It's too expensive for her to return only to sleep plus she'll enjoy her time with friends...
But what am I talking about... I'm about to terminate mine :-(
I guess another way of considering the 24 hours is that she gets time off after 6-7pm on Saturday night up until 9-10pm on Sunday night with two nights sleep in between before she works again on Monday.
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What does your boss do if you are always late? Or do not show up? Or go out till 4 am and then go to work?
Your boss would fire you (ok first warn you) for being habitually late, for not turning up, and for being unable to do your work.
Q. Are we to let her stay out 24 hours and pay for her to sleep elsewhere?
A. Of course not. You provide free accommodation, if she chooses to stay elsewhere she pays, although I'm sure a few FDHs may try to pull a fast one and get their employers to pay.
Your FDH is an employee and you cannot "ground" her as you would a naughty teenager. But you can terminate her contract. Teenagers you have to wait till they leave home...
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cd
18 yrs ago
My helper often leaves sat evening if we're not going out, to go and stay with his wife, and usually comes back at 6.30 mon morning. It doesn't matter that he doesn't come back sunday night, as its still his day off so wouldn't do any work anyway. You can't stop your helper staying over at a friends on her day off, and you can't dictate what time she can come back.
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Family of 5 = 2 loads a day?!?!
Anyway... if you are not happy with your helper, terminate her contract rather than posting ALL IN CAPITALS (equivalent of shouting at everyone here).
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And I still don't understand why she can't wash her clothes in the machine with your family's clothes...
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guys, please, give her a break. we all have different style of doing things, let's not judge others if we dont like to be judged. this is suppose to be a forum where people sincerely come for an answer. Am i right, Ed?
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What's this 'let's not judge'? I hear this far too often and it genererally means 'let's not get involved - we're ok so why should we care what happens to other people?'
Bad behaviour should be pointed out and stopped where possible. If your neighbour was beating his children, mother_2005, would you'judge'? Nah, you'd probably just turn the music up.
Please...
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ritad
18 yrs ago
eureka gold...the thing is you can't win anyones approval here..if you know you are okay..that is good enough...i know this site well enough to say that....i think what you are doing is okay in your ways....i am sure you keep it balanced...
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Balanced? Did you read his/her threads?
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MayC
18 yrs ago
Eureka, I think some of the comments you made in your latest post is fair. I only had a quick glance at your schedule. I think it's how it's been worded previously that may have caused a stir. I agree that if there are only 1-2 items of clothing, it would be such a waste to put in the washing machine which will use electricity for up to 1.5 hours. It's much quicker to handwash. I know that I handwash my little girl's clothes for the very same reason. If I've done a load full of washing already and she happens to dirty 1-2 t-shirts afterwards, I handwash them.
It may be "okay" for others in terms of mixing our helpers clothing with ours but I think I wouldn't do it. I put my undies in with my wash (after rinsing and soaking for a few hours in bleach that is) and if she puts hers with mine, that would not be hygienic. At the moment, apart from hubs, I don't even put other family members' undergarments in. It's a big "no no" in my hubby's traditional chinese culture and I think it's sensible. I've told my helper she could use our washing machine to wash her clothes anytime she wants but she chooses to wash her own clothes by hand but she does use the washing machine to dry her clothes before hanging them out to dry.
Regarding eating in the room, ours eat in the kitchen. We've offered to let her eat with us but she prefers her own privacy and wants to eat there. It could be the same as yours. She finds it more comfortable eating in her room.
Mine also leaves her door open when she sleeps because initially the idea was that she would help me if baby cried and then sleep in the afternoon to make up for it while I was at work. But I've always looked after baby on my own throughout the night and I've never really needed to use her in the last 2 years.
I give mine a lot of freedom, you set rules, but the outcome is the same. Our helpers do want their privacy either with the washing, eating etc.
I think as long as we respect them and respect the importance of the job they do, it can't be all that bad.... having said that, my first didn't work out, but I still have faith in finding the right partner in my little's girl care.
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Ed
18 yrs ago
Bans have been imposed on this forum.
Sarcastic comments are not allowed - if you cant post something helpful then refrain from participation.
I am getting seriously frustrated with those who are constantly abusing other members - going forward I will not issue any further warnings - we will see you off immediately.
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$120 for pay on a Sunday? Isn't that below the minimum, if you assume 26 work days in a month?
Also, where does it say in the contract that a helper has the right to stay somewhere else overnight on her rest day?
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tsuiwah> the amount is irrelevant as mentioned above, it is against the law.
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