It may be Dubai

Yup, looking at an option to move there. Wondering if there are folks around here who've moved from Dubai recently. Looking for some tips on places to live, cost of living, rentals etc. etc.


Can pm or talk too....


Ed, kinda belongs to HK expat :), but mainly coz ME expat doesnt look like its live.

No problem posting that here

Hi Ed,


Former HK Expat who moved to Dubai about a year ago (and will be moving back to HK in May). Dubai is extremely different to HK and have found that it is not at all what it is promoted to be. It's one big construction site with bad traffic. Generally, a very difficult and frustrating lifestyle. You must have lots of patience to live there! There are some positives though; cleaner air, nice beaches, nice dry heat and you can rent larger apartments.


If you are still keen on moving, I would check out the following sites to get a real feel about the place:


www.7days.ae

www.bhomes.com (expensive real estate agency, but will give you a good indicator about the different areas in Dubai)

www.dubizzle.com


If you have any more questions let me know.


Andrew

Hi Andrew,


Looks like you clearly prefer HK to Dubai and have heard something similar from another friend too :)


My office will be near the DIFC. What are some good places to live and what should my outlay be for a good 3 bd modern apartment with good facilities?


Are rentals relatively cheaper than HK or would one spend the same and get a bigger apartment?


From what I read living expenses seem to be more or less on par - is this right?


Thanks, Kram

Thanx Andrew for those links. Esp. the last one....

Hi Kram,


DIFC, nice location, in the centre of town, near Emirates Mall (the equivalent of the Statue Square, IFC, Jardine House, Exchange Square) area.

It depends on what lifestyle you want. If you want an apartment "in the city" I would recommend looking along Sheikh Zayed Road (the main road), I don't know the real estate market that well, but I would say that you need to reserve AED150,000 (HKD$300,000) per year rent. Keep in mind most landlords in Dubai require you to pay the full years rent upfront.


If you want to experience Villa style living, I would recommend a Villa along Al Wasl Road, Jumeirah 1, 2 or 3. Again, you would be looking at AED120,000 - AED200,000 per year (HKD$240,000 - HKD$400,000).


Rentals are different in Dubai. In Hong Kong, if you want to live in a nice area, you can do so affordibly by choosing an older Chinese building. In Dubai, the majority of the apartments are huge and new and the size of the apartment generally doesn't have a huge impact on the price.


Living expenses are half of what you would pay in Hong Kong - very easy to live cheap and good.


Let me know if you have any further questions.


Andrew

Great. Doesnt sound like a bad deal. Now to sit back and wait to see if there's a good offer :)


Thanks Andrew. Will probably ping you again if I need some other inputs....

Hi Andrew,


I've visited Dubai many times and I would not agree with 'nice dry heat' comment. The humidity during the summer is quite unbearable.

Wow, my new employer will be better off learning all that about the place :) The more I read about the place, the more it looks to be an interesting place.


Thanks Mobile.fidelity for that detailed long post.


I am told that 150k AED is a good amount to get a very good place for rent - does it look right esp. for the good areas you have mentioned? I keep seeing posts for 3 bed apartments at 200k also!!


I lived in the US for 4 years (in the suburbs that too) and I love big supermarkets :) Not that I needed most of the stuff, but just the fact that its a more 'wholesome' shopping experience :)

Wow Mobile Fidelity, do you work for the Dubai Tourist Association?


I've been out here 18 months after living in HK for 10 years and frankly, Dubai isn't what it is cut out to be. I have to agree with Andrew on all his points. Don't be seduced by all that you read.


To be fair, it is a city that is trying to emulate itself on Singapore and HK and it has done a fantastic job is such a short space of time. However, for it to claim to be a world class city, it still doesn't infrastructure or service yet in place.


If you want to live well you need to be on a decent expat package. If you are coming with a family, then you'll have to worry about getting your kids in the right schools. They are expensive and the waitlists long. If you want your family to live in a villa/townhouse, take a look also in Springs/Meadows/Emirates Hills/Green Community areas. They are very popular as they are gated communities with facilities. Rent for 3 bed start around DH180K. DH150K would get you a decent three bed flat in say, The Greens or a two bedtown house in the Springs.


Rented accommodation - leases are for 1 year only. Expect to be chucked out after 1 year by your landlord who claims he wants to move in himself and then rents it out at a much higher rent after you've gone. Luckily you can go to the Rent Committee to air your grievances and they usually favour the tenant in most cases. Rental prices are still going up and it is getting to the stage where people cannot afford to stay in Dubai as incomes cannot keep up.


Food - Chinese food is not 'the least popular here', it's because we can't find decent Chinese restaurants like HK! Why? Because most restaurants do not have a pork licence and you can't get decent fresh ingredients for Chinese cooking. There is nowhere as good as HK for dim sum. China Club at Radisson is ok; Lankwaifong in Deira is pretty good; Noodle Bowl in Satwa is closest you can get to dai pai dong style and Zheng He is best (and most expensive) for 'authentic' Chinese out of the lot.


Great coffee culture here and spoiled for choice. Yes, good supermarkets but do miss getting deli stuff from Olivers and that new place in Landmark.


Driving and traffic - the main topic of every dinner conversation....v stressful and you need to be defensive the whole time. I've seen some spectacular accidents happen right before my eyes due to speed, carelessness, rudeness, talking and texting on the phone and basic stupidity on the roads. Sheikh Zayed Road has a fatality every other day.


What's to do for leisure? Well, unless you play golf, tennis, gym or swim there's not much else really. In the summer months? Stay indoors and hang out at the air-conditioned malls. Go to the beach? Well, that's all now being redeveloped so public beaches will soon be a thing of the past. Cinema? mainstream films but expect anything controversial relating to sex or religion to be cut out. Experience people bringing in crying babies to watch movies and talking loudly on the phone (just like HK so you'll feel right at home!).


Shopping malls? Overrated in my opinion. Each one stocks the same stuff that's one season behind everywhere else. More expensive than HK but cheaper than UK. Oh, and if you're a smoker, you're in paradise as smoking is pretty much allowed everywhere! Even while you're crusing the malls. And don't bother going at the weekends because you'd be lucky to get a parking spot. Unlike HK where you can go hiking at the w/ends, get on a junk, there's none of that here as it's all flat and desert. So also expect to put on weight as you drive everywhere.


Infrastructure and public transport - the city has expanded at such a rate that it cannot keep up with building new roads. There is no efficient public transport except taxis at present. They are building a metro now but that won't be ready for a few years yet.


Cool markets? Please tell me where.


Service - it has a long way to go. Don't expect the efficiency you get in HK or Singapore.


Recommend you read up on the culture. Two great books to get you started are "The Explorer" by Explorer books and "Don't They Know It's Friday?" by Jeremy Williams which is insightful for how to cope with living in an Islamic country and doing business here.


Having said all that, I am lucky to be in Dubai to experience this amazing boom and be part of history in the making.


Good luck and hope you enjoy being here.

Mobile Fidelity & Dragon

Thanks for the respective perspectives! I'm a UK+Aus citizen who lived in AbuDhabi many years back and saw the beginnings of the new Dubai. My business is currently based in Singapore (yes, it's clean, blah, blah...) ...but I'm eager to re-experience the DXB boom....Can you/anyone please recommend any reliable recruitment agencies in Dubai? The ones I found via the net are all crap and unresponsive. My background is Technology marketing and I specialise in e-commerce. Thanks.

Hi Kram,


I would recommend contacting Connected Group. www.connectedgroup.com


Mobile Fidelity, just out of curiosity, how long have you lived in Dubai and Hong Kong for?

From speaking to people who have moved to and within the UAE, most seem to have found employment through networking (eg. at trade fairs), cold calling and word of mouth and the Gulf News. Find out who are based in Media City and start from there?


Good luck!

agoldste/Dragon....thx, (I assume your posts were meant for me!) I'll let you know jhow it goes.

Andrew, Mobile Fidelity, and anyone else who has an opinion - I may have opportunities in both Hong Kong and Dubai, and will be relocating from Canada with my husband and 2 preschoolers. Our motivation for leaving is to have an adventure, do some interesting work (hopefully) and earn some $$. I am nervous about Dubai - we are active people who love to be outdoors - and so are our two boys. The $$ isn't so important that I want to blow 2 years of my kids being little - I want to have fun, too! Any thoughts? I am trying to do my research, but find it difficult to get a true picture of what Dubai is like. If we moved to Hong Kong, we would likely live on Lamma Island.


Thanks for any info you can give me!

Hi Sarah36. Unfortunately being single with no kids, I can't really comment from a "having children" point of view. Personally, I would pick Hong Kong over Dubai. While Hong Kong is more polluted than Dubai (although Lamma is a lot cleaner than Kowloon or HK Island), you may find life in Dubai very frustrating and difficult. For the outdoors, forget June to September as the tempatures soar in Dubai. The highest I've ever seen the thermostat in my car was at 50 degrees!


Hong Kong has more of a friendly and welcoming expat community with easily accessible social clubs. You can do lots of hikes and go exploring around HK Island and in the New Territories. Cathay Pacific also have some fantastic weekend flights (usually departing HKG of a Friday afternoon and returning Sunday afternoon or night), where you can travel around the region and gain exposure to the different asian countries. I've tried to do that in Dubai, but find it very difficult because of the traffic to the airport and airline schedules.


Hope this has been somewhat helpful.


Andrew

Hi Sarah36, I personally agree with Andrew. However, if your kids are pre-school, I think Dubai is great when they are at that age. There are lots of expat mums here so you'll find new friends in no time. There are quite a few nurseries here but they do have long waitlists. When your kids start school, they'll be starting early and finishing around 2pm. Although Dubai is trying to establish better international level of education, I think the level is not on par with HK or the UK. Because of the weather (I can't see the problem as there is aircon!) schools finish early. Schools also close for early for Ramadan. If my children were going to be studying O/A levels, GCSE, then I would definitely send them elsewhere. I think their education would be compromised here.


Andrew is right, there isn't a whole lot to do. Pool, beach, bit of cycling, bit of offroading, wander round the malls. At least in HK you've got lots of greenery and can visit somewhere different each weekend. And the summers here are a bit grim. You spend your time running from one airconned place to another. In the cooler months, Oct to April, then it's great to be out esp. if you're a keen golfer or enjoy tennis. You can go camping in the desert, snorkeling in Oman, ride dunebuggies.


If you're planning long term Dubai, I don't think it's good for children (or your own sanity!) - it's La-La land. Children get spoiled, domestic help is cheap, they get driven everywhere and do not develop a sense of 'street'.


To be fair you need to come visit Dubai and see it for yourself. Like any place, you might love it or you might not. Compared to HK, it's a much slower pace. I'm looking fwd to returning to HK.


A good website for info on Dubai is: http://www.expatmum.com. It's a bit like asiaxpat. It's not just for mums either.


To mango2, there are loads of jobs in construction here. There is a magazine called Construction Weekly. All the major players are here.


Good luck!

Dragon

Mobile Fidelity, I'm an Australian and definately do not share your viewpoint.


How long did you live in Dubai, or were you here on holidays?

Funny, I've know at least 5 expats that have moved back to Hong Kong in the year I've been here, everyone having the same complaints (Like those of "Dragons")


Glad you're enjoying living here - for me, it's a lot like the Gold Coast on steriods.


Cheers mate!