Posted by
ASIMO
15 yrs ago
Would be grateful for some clarification re: red packets. Do i give one to my part time helper? the doorman at the apartment block (concierge)? my secretary? anyone else? and if so, how much?
Thank you in advance
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Easy answer - yes to all the above. I normally have a collection of red pockets in my bag and restock my suit pocket as I give them away. I give out $20 pockets and $50 and $100 pockets wrapped in rubber bands to avoid confusion. Different people receive different amounts.
$40 for the doorman and security staff, $100-$200 for my key staff, $20-$40 for other staff, $100 for the cleaning lady who empties our bins and tries to talk to me etc.
It does turn into an expensive few days.
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As bob says. Red packets to anyone reporting to you and the people reporting to them and so forth all the way down. Also cleaning staff, guards, gardeners and so forth in your building.
Remember it has to be new bills. Also if memory serves it cannot be "uneven" amounts of bills. In other words not a 10 and a 20. One or two of the same bill is ok.
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my understanding is that $40, or any combination of bills totalling $4(XX), is not auspicious tho, because of the association of the Chinese word for '4' being similar to the word for 'death'....I try to keep it to $20, $50, and $100 depending on the level of service and relationship...
also, if you are single, you get packets from married couples, but you give to the children of married couples (in regards to personal relationships)
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It's money, most people take money and don't worry so much about $40.
If someone felt it was not auspicious to accept $40 (2 x $20 red pockets), they can always return it back to me.
However, I don't see that happening.
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I wasn't trying to criticize your choice, just pointing out some traditions...I (being western) don't really see the big deal either, but I feel if your going to follow the tradition of giving lai see, might as well try not to offend...and they may not return it to save you from 'losing face' (another aspect of Asian culture i could do without!)
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What I know about red pockets is that they are not opened until the 7th day. During these 7 days all the pockets are collected and then opened on the one day. Almost impossible to know who gave what. The idea of giving 2 pockets at the same time is a sign of generosity ( 2 is more than 1) so if most of your pockets are full of $20 notes, then $40 will be what is given. Our doorman receives hundreds of pockets - no way knowing who gave how much.
Special pockets, like those from parents, or some generous employers are normally easy to identify, so $40 is not an issue as these are sometimes $500 or again, 2 pockets x $500
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I was told by local friends that, with a married couple, both husband and wife had to give a packet separately (ie that each person gives a packet from her/him only - not jointly with their spouse). However, when we each went to give our guard a packet, she said that one packet from both of us was sufficient.
Can anyone clarify the correct protocol about this?
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I thought that if you were married you didn't get any packets at all ?? They were only for unmarried people ??
Maybe that's why I'm so unpopular?
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if you're married with kids, the kids will get packets, but yes, if you are married with no kids, you just get to give, in family/friends interactions...but before you get all freaked out, there is a gweilo caveat...you aren't REALLY expected to follow the traditions to the letter...Chinese people will appreciate any effort you make, but most would understand and accept NOT getting lai see from a gweilo...as for the double packets from husband and wife, my wife (local) just gives the two packets on behalf of each of us. i rarely have to/am expected to give packets...
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I live in a big estate and most of the year we have the same 3 or 4 guards rotating shifts in our tower - but this time of year we get a different person every few hours! Obv. they rotate them round the estate so when it gets to CNY, we have all these guards who supposedly are there for us all year- but of course we won't see them again till next year. Does this happen everywhere, or is it a special feature of Hutchison Whampoa?? As usual, will be giving lai see to "my" guards only!
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Didn't happen in my former place. Just the usual guys. What will happen in our new place remains to be seen. ;)
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Our guards seem to be extra nice the day before and day of. There also seems to be more of them walking around the estate rather than sitting in their lunch room.
I would do the same - good luck to them.
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I totally agree, cara. Lighten up, short time.
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Short time, of course it is your prerogative not to follow the custom. It is my prerogative to think you are being rather disrespectful of the locals. Plus you come off like a whiny child.
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Please tell me that Short Time is winding us up... if not, please tell me who has a harder time making ends meet- the average gweilo (and I don't even mean the big package expats) or the average building guard?
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Ed
15 yrs ago
While there is a lot of wealth in HK, many people including security guards, people who pick up trash from buildings etc... get by on very low salaries - I personally believe its a nice gesture to show some appreciation with a $50 or $100 packet once a year.
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i agree Ed, and I'm happy to give generously to the staff who help me every day, holding deliveries, talking to my baby girl, giving treats, opening the door and calling taxis, working hard to keep our building clean...it's the staff who suddenly 'show up' around CNY for a handout that get no attention from me...to me that smacks of begging...
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It's amazing how many people will spend $1000+ on one dinner for two, but cannot find just 5% of this amount, once a year. Scrooge comes to mind those people who say - it isn't my custom so why should I etc.
Give without expecting anything in return and your life (and the recipients') will change. You won't be such a negative person to be around.
When I read comments like one of these above, it shows me this person should never have left their home country, they are just not suitable for working in a foreign country. Maybe they should only be in HK for a Short Time and leave quickly and be replaced by someone who is nicer.
I enjoy this time of the year.
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Yes, it's amazing how on the one hand Short Time doesn't like the "silly old customs" on HKG, like showing a bit of gratitude to the locals once a year, yet on the other hand is happy to pay with the custom of paying only 17% income tax, unlike his country of origin (I am making the assumption of course that he's an expat here).
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We locals are very into this tradition. And it's also a wonderful opportunity for us to show our appreciation to people who serve us. It's always a blessing to be able to give than to receive.
Frankly, for me personally, 15 days of this custom is a bit too long to hold as I need to carry some red packets around in my handbag all the time during the whole 15 days in cases where I may meet some acquaintances with children whom I do not want to disappoint, going to places where people open doors, a helper I bump into inside a lift that I know who works in our building etc. etc. Also I have to carry different de-nomination packets for different people. What a task! For me, one week of this would be more appropriate.
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cd
15 yrs ago
Although I think short time could have worded it better, I agree to a certain extent. I am not Chinese, red packets are not part of my tradition, so we should not be made to feel wrong for not giving them out. Although I normally give a small amount to our security guards etc, I do not give them to anyone else. And it bugs me when people I've never met before actually put their hand out and ask for a packet which has happened before.
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vabu
15 yrs ago
I didn't know the tradition of giving red envelopes lasted for two full weeks.
I understand the custom for doormen, security people, and cleaning lady at the office.
Two weeks are long, who else I should think of? Would the occasional taxi driver expect an envelope? The occasional waiter in a new restaurant?
For the DH, I'm still confused as neither I nor she are Chinese and I gave her a bonus at Xmas (as we both celebrated it).
Thanks.
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personally we give packets to family, close friends, familiar service staff in our building. random cab drivers or waiters won't expect it from you for sure.
if you gave a bonus at Christmas, I would think it not necessary 6 weeks later...
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cd
15 yrs ago
For our helper we give $100 for laisee. As you say its neither yours or your helpers tradition. And as I understand it, a huge amount is not important, its the actual giving of the red packet that brings goodluck and wealth.
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"For the DH, I'm still confused as neither I nor she are Chinese and I gave her a bonus at Xmas (as we both celebrated it). "
A bonus should be enough. But as cd says you can just give a small lai see.
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vabu - yes this Chinese New Year tradition is a 15 days' thing and I think only most of us locals need or try to keep it as it's been like this for generations. For expats it should only be a fun time by blending in with any local tradition in the countries they are in as long as they are comfortable and within their means.
ASIMO - $20 per packet for people you want to give would be fine during the period. I mentioned in my previous post that it is a wonderful opportunity to be able to give a bit more to those people who serve me is by choice, not a compulsary thing. People are happy to receive a red packet, no matter the amount for the gesture of luck - in the old days when people are poor, or for some scholars - they just write a lucky sentence (usually 4 Chinese characters) and put the strip of paper into the red packet instead of money which was totally acceptable.
For those receivers who are greedy and expect more or take it for granted that they are entitled and must be given a share of your $$ - you can disregard their feelings.
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tpol
15 yrs ago
most people open their lacees straight away just to check who gave what.
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of course common sense would suggest to people of any culture that this is rude...
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Mick!
15 yrs ago
how do you keep track of who's received a packet and who hasn't? i'd expect for a a doorman who apparently receives hundreds of these things to loose track of who gave and who didn't.. where do you get the packets? supermarket? do you come off as an a** if you don't offer them? I'd feel a bit odd handing out cash to the guys at my buildings front desk..
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"how do you keep track of who's received a packet and who hasn't?"
Use that thing between your ears. ;) Seriously, that's the way to do it. I try to get all the packets done as fast as I can so I don't forget anyone. I have also been known to ask questions like "I gave you already right?".
"where do you get the packets? supermarket? "
Yes. Also stationery stores and those little seasonal stores that crop up. Heck, businesses will give them out just to get advertising.
"do you come off as an a** if you don't offer them?"
Yes, probably. And don't feel odd. Most local staff members do understand that you are trying to do the right thing but may get the details wrong. They are grateful for your effort.
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"where do you get the packets?"
Newspaper stalls.....banks give out free
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HK777
15 yrs ago
Who would I give to? I'm male, 23 and single, my boss says I don't have to give any out but I feel bad receiving 40 red packets and giving away nothing at all. This would be helpful for next year. thanks.
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tpol
15 yrs ago
HK777 - Anyone who provides a constant service to you - e.g. staff/colleagues, security guard, maid, cleaner, children of friends/family.
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keep in mind that Saturday is the last day (traditionally) for giving/receiving lai see...
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Actually Sunday is the last day and if going with the traditional flow, you can stop giving out CNY laisee on Monday (1st March).
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To cd - are you sure they are putting their hand out or just wishing you a happy new year, the latter is not a plea for lai see just common courtesy. I don't have many people ask "Where's my laisee?".
I see nothing wrong with putting 2 $20 bills in the same envelope.
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2 $20 bills means $40 in one - no. 4 is bad luck. My daughter got a ton of twenties, sometimes 2 together, but always in 2 separate envelopes - how many trees got chopped down to keep the evil no. 4 away from us? The parents of the kids I teach all gave her $40- 2 x $20....
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