Posted by
wombles
14 yrs ago
According to The Standard, the average expat earns almost HK$2,000,000 per year. Every expat I know earns at best 250,000 to 700,000 per year and these are your average expats, ranging from teachers to engineers to local business owners. How do they get the figure of 2mil per year? Do they only question people in finance?
Labeling the average expat as earning so much just makes it so much harder for the 'local expat' as most Chinese think we earn that much and therefore label us rich when in fact we are only as well off as the average local.
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Actually, that number may not be that far from reality. There are many people in banking that makes 5x or more than that average. For every one of them, you could support 5 expats working for free. There are many more expat bankers than there are expat teachers. Actually, some of their housing alone is that much or more, not counting salary, bonus, education, home leave, medical, etc.
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The journalistic standard in HK is pretty pathetic. Case in point: Page 9 of today's Standard is a full page (obviously!) infomercial for a London real estate sales exhibition (get this) at the British Consulate. I guess the British government is bleeding dry from all the "humanitarian" wars against humanity and is so broke that it is now in the property business.
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What on earth is wrong with the British Consulate being used to promote British commercial interests?
By the way, have you forgotten that the main reason that your income tax is so low is precisely because the Hong Kong Government is in the real estate business in a HUGE way.
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That is true my uncle who used to work in HSBC is paid 900,000.00 HKD a year, including a big house and a garden in South Bay which is 170,000 a month plus two kids in HKIS. But I don’t think companies nowadays are willing to pay that much money especially when the economy is volatile. Most of the companies are hiring singles/bachelors expat because they don’t have to give school allowance or moving allowance if they have to give housing allowance they cut it into half.
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HSBC expats enjoy the best perks out there. A HSBC Intl Mgr is treated like a visiting diplomat wherever they are posted. Bank provided quarters on Plantation Rd on the Peak. Corp debentures plus 80% of tuition paid for. B-Class airfare home for entire family once a year. Club memberships (AMC, HK Club, take your pick). Heck, even newspapers, telephones, fax machines, and everyday appliances are paid for. And this is not for the most senior guys, but for run-of-the-mill business managers, risk managers, etc.
Imagine 25 year old guys given quarters at Bamboo Grove - looking at $80k month easy.
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A very small percentage of Expats I know get perks as mentioned and not to the level quoted, I sure don't. Most are employed locally but because most are skilled professionals earn a reasonable salary. Firms will employ local skilled staff if possible on an apples for apples basis. Local peole in my company earn on the same pay scale as me, I had a sic laugh with my manager about this bit of journo trash.
Woodds99 good point but it doesn't make it right and NuinHK also right where does the cash come from for jets and bombs when the UK can't pay NHS staff?
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Well guess we are here to balance things out....I run my own very small and ahrdly profitable business in HK, my husband studies, writes, and tutors occassionally and homeschools our two boys.....goes camping, kayaking and hiking with them regularly...I work at most 30 hours per week at my dancing studio managing that. And we are very happy and content in HK...Some days I wonder if these other super rich expats could just have a week in my life wouldn't they be so jealous!! hahaha
And to balance things even further, recently met a few homeless expats living here in HK sleeping under bridges, in parks etc.....so expat sure as heck doesn't mean rich in my we world. Shame on the Standard for being so over generalised.
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The Standard reports today that HSBC's 3000 cuts will also include some expats (ie the International Managers and overseas assignees). So it looks like the middle manager types will get a hit and not just the locals. Makes a lot of sense if you ask me. They cost at least double (closer to triple) a local in the same job yet their productivity is not nearly close to their cost differential.
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The local media mill reported that the HSBC cut would follow the formula of 20, 40, 60: if you've logged in over 20 years of employment with HSBC, or if you're over the age of 40, or if you make over HKD60K a month. Go figure.
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madtown - you're so right. I'm am totally jealous, envy as green as St Paddy hisself. Damn, I just realised I can't prove St Paddy is actually green - can someone please confirm that?
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Once upon a time, the term "expatriate" was only used to describe those employees who enjoyed special privileges because they were working away from their home countries.
I worked as an expatriate for many years, in Hong Kong, and also in Thailand, and received free housing, health care, travel allowance, and so on. I wonder whether there is a problem of definition here?
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The use of average is deceptive. A small percentage with very high salaries can cause a high average. I think the 50th %ile would be a better indicator. I believe it is something like $HK60,000 per month, still high, but nowhere near the Standard figure.
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You make a good point Dave and madtown, however, I am referring to locals and expats in the same firm, same grade level at one particular place. Speaking of HSBC they have just lost their CEO in HK - an overseas appointee - granted only a few know for sure but looking at the press release vs other leavers' press releases, it certainly appears the departure was not on the best of terms. Only 2999 more to go.
Woods - expats to me means international appointees, not Am/Cdn/UK/Aussie/etc that are here on local terms
Yes, there are many well paid locals. These tend to work in the family business. But since many HK companies are family run (and not publicly traded), their salaries are not required to be disclosed publicly. Or they don't take much salary (enough to live on) but get other non-taxable benefits (eg Li Ka-shing). But that wasn't the point of this discussion was it?
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No, I am saying some companies need some skillsets that are not readily available in HK. To get it you have to send internal appointees over from other regions. It seems you are keen to stigmatise me in a negative light which as Serena says is not cool. Nowhere did I mention race or whatsoever.
Unfortunately you have to give these people housing, education etc. The cost of housing and education has risen so much these days that the cost of the international appointee is multiple times a local salary. There is no way that that person can match their productivity to their cost differential.
The problem with this model goes away if you localise people once the need goes away. Some banks do a better job of this - eg i know at some US banks expats are given 2 year contracts and then they are localised (fairly strictly enforced). HSBC has a policy such as this but given their historical culture, they have a much bigger pool of international managers and don't necessarily enforce it as much.
The other difference is that the Bank owns many of their staff housing. Some think since it is owned there is no cash outlay for rent so what is the problem. But the issue is one of opportunity cost - ie to fairly measure it you have to look at surrounding market pricing not just your own cash outlay, since you could decide to rent that out to externals.
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My husband runs his own business in Hong Kong. He employs both locals and expats. However, whilst many of them have the same academic and professional qualifications, he has struggled to find locals with the same skills/expertise as the expats he employs. He has been unable to find locals with the high level that is required in his field of work. Hence, the expats he employs do, quite rightly, get a higher salary. They do not, however, get 'expat packages', they have an agreed lump sum salary, with the only extra being private medical insurance (which the locals also receive). If he were able to employ locals who could do the job as well as the expats he employs, it would save him a lot of hassle. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
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