How does home renovation work in HK ?

We renovated both our bathrooms with new tile, glass shower doors, fans, covered the pipes, and installed new toilets, sinks and cabinets.


First we asked a contractor for a quote for the tile and installation of the above items.


Went to Mongkok and Wanchai and ordered all the items, which were delivered while the contractor removed the old fixtures and installed the new tile. Found it was cheaper to buy supplies directly rather than asking the contractor to buy on our behalf because we would also be using a lot of his time running around to shops plus we could negotiate ourselves.


We paid one-third up front and the balance upon completion.


Whole job took about 2 weeks per bathroom but a lot of time was spent building the new shower floor and installing the tile.


Hope this helps. Good luck!

Whatever you do, stay away from WP Engineering and anything or anyone endorsing Wolfgang and his company. So many people have been screwed by this man, so stay away.

Get a few quotes from various contractors and make sure you get timings and penalties put in your contract.

Also, do some research on how to correctly renovate a bathroom, as too many HK contractors cut corners. They will make the aesthetics look fine, but what's behind the tiles? We bought a place and the owner told us how much she'd spent on the bathroom renovations - a lot - a year after we bought, the bathroom started leaking, ripped up the tiles in the bath and was amazed at the job that had been done - zero waterproofing and crushed tile etc to fill voids - as soon as the crushed/broken tiles used for fill started to settle, the grout started to deteriorate the water poured through. Got in some contractors and told them what I wanted - cost a bit more but is worth it in the long run. So don't go for the cheapest quote and do your research - if you know what you are talking about and follow the work progress closely, you'll be less likely to get screwed.

The previous replies have been remarkably sensible (am I on the right forum?!!) I would only add two practical things.


Firstly, I'm not sure what use a ceiling fan would be in reducing mould, what would normally work best would be an extractor fan which takes the moisture out of the bathroom rather than just waving the moisture around a bit. These are usually mounted in the window or external wall.


Secondly, yes, make sure you don't pay everything up front but have a decent proportion of the monies to be paid after the work is completed as its the only thing that protects you if things do unfortunately go pear-shaped.

I am looking to renovate my home and need a reliable and good contractopr.


My apartment is 1,300 sqft. I want to redo 2 bathrooms (new shower, toilet, tiles and cabinets), the kitchen (new cabinets and tiles), add in a walk in closet in the master bedroom, build a floor to ceiling closet in the living room and paint the walls. I have been getting quotes from $750,000 to $1.2 million which seems expensive to me.


Please let me know if you think the quotes are reasonable and if you have any contractor recommendations?


Thanks!

jwc209 - that seems a little excessive. I would say it should be around the HKD 600K-HKD 700K mark at most.


Just to give you an idea I renovated my 650sqft apartment from head to toe (again).....it was gutted completely and re-done (including appliances and wooden floors). It cost me HKD 300K but should have been less as I basically had to start from scratch again because of horrible workmanship done by WP Engineering.

Renovations costs are always a function of how much you want to do.


If its just a facelift (just switch parts out for another, like new toilet, new sink, new mixer, new cabinet, but retain layout and structure) it should be mostly material costs. If you plan to radically redesign the layout/waterworks, it could be significantly more expensive.


Basically, you are gonna have 2 pools of costs.

1) material costs - this is definitely an area where you can go nuts or behave. if you buy china quality shower/tub/sink/etc, you could do it in a few grand. If you buy euro design stuff, you can go over 100k easy.

2) labour - this is what your contractor is definitely going to charge you. some is labour, there may be woodworking (wood) and masonry (marble/stone) labor, which is more costly.


If you buy most of the stuff yourself, you will manage the bulk of 1 yourself. The contractor/workers will still probably need provide some of the labor-associated stuff.


Labor cost will depend on the extent and duration of the project. If you want to approximate costs, typically the labour day of a worker costs 1-1.2k/hkd per worker for decently skilled ones. So if he has a two guys in there for a month, that will be some 25k in labour costs. But it should not take a month. Certain types of labour may be higher costing depending on the craftsmanship skill required. In addition, the contractor will also charge some management fee for his time and organization, so be reasonable. You don't want to be completely ripped but if you squeeze the balls off the workers and contractor you are gonna get a shoddy job done.


Roughly gauge your budget and pricing and be fair. There is no formula for this. $50-70k for a small bathroom is possible. $200k is also possible.

sorry, i meant if he has one guy in there for a month.

We recently completed a renovation (for the 2nd time). So i have experienced both the good and bad of renovation companies in HK. Msg me if you would like the contact details of the 2nd contractor. They speak a little English, and obviosuly Cantonese, and i can highly recommend them.


In general, and taking into consideration that you pointed out you only want functional and inexpensive items, im sure your budget of 50 - 70k will be enough. We did something similar with oiur bathroom (replaced the bath with a shower), and relocated the toilet. At first the contractor was reluctant to move hte toilet, but finally agreed that it could be moved. ( just try to keep it on an outward facing wall). The shower is inexpensive (around 3-4k for the glass/sliding door), the rest really depends on what you would like.

We also did our own shopping around for each item, in general you can get about 10% discount from the shop (normally this would go to the contractor if you keave it to them). Also, you know exactly the quality you are getting, and delivery is for free regardless of the cost.

Regarding mold, we installed a towel warmer/heater, its great for drying up the room, and as it can be left on 24hrs a day, the bathroom remains quite dry. They're not cheap, but again it depends on the quality you want.. a ball park figure would be around 6-7k, but you can find small ones for even 2-3K. (you will still need an extractor fan also).


With contractors, they will probably want 30% upfront, 40%, then 20% during the work, and retain 10%. Being a relatively small job, they might want 50% and 50% on completion.. it really comes down to what you negotiate with them. But if you buy the materials yourself, i cant imagine why they would need 50% upfront? Also keep in mind that if they say they need 1 month, they will probably actually only work there for a few days. They usually take on many jobs at a time, and its a way for them to not lose any new jobs.. see if you can get a shorter time span as it really shouldnt take more than a week.


Goodluck and message me if you would like their details (not sure if we are allowed to post company details directly on here??)

The cost also depends on several things.


1) your expectations - are picky about the very fine details?

2) your actual flat - there may be physical constraints that may increase your cost

3) your preferrence on materials and fittings - tiles, and bathroom accessories which can have such a huge range.


I am currently fully renovating a 1500 sq/ft combined flat (not the kitchen though) and expecting to come out somewhere close to 300K including material I selected. Mind you, I am monitoring the progress on a day-to-day basis and spending a lot of time talking about minute details with the contractor. Becareful of those that charge you extra for this and that and for any changes or correction of mistakes.

I would like to backup what Milty has posted with regards to WP Engineering Limited. My advise would be not to use this company as you run the risk of getting into the same problems we did.


We used Wolgang Derler and his company WP Engineering Limited on our renovation project and it was an unmitigated nightmare! It was so bad that we had to literally get the whole project re done. They installed windows without safety and stay bars which resulted in one of the windows being ripped off it's hinges and falling to the ground. Luckily no one was hurt. The police are currently investigating WP Engineering. He also performed electrical works in our flat even though he is not an authorized electrical contractor with the EMSD. He did not provide the required WR1 form upon completion of the work despite repeated requests for it. The EMSD is currently investigating him and there is a hearing later in the year.


For more information please check out the Face Book Group Consumers Against WP Engineering Limited and the website www.bewareofwpe.com


All information provided in this forum can be backed up with evidence in writing and would stand up to any legal scrutiny.

I just recently had my flat renovated. I got lucky my designer / contract was very clear to explain to me the cost and steps of my project, the result is beutiful. He was recommend to me by my co worker. Post me if you want his contact.

Sorry for the late reply, i dont aways check my post mail. Anyway, my contrator name is Bali, his number is 6961 2828, he speaks perfect english.

Having renovated recently, my observations were:

1. The contractor usually takes on several jobs at once and is only there a few days and week, and never makes the deadline (but it wasn't a bad blowout - 2 months extra when we were told 6 months)

2. He charged 15% more than quoted. Same for other friends who used him. I think he thinks this is what the market will accept and perhaps its his pricing strategy

3. We shopped for all the bits and bobs ourselves and then passed the details onto him. He consistently managed 20-30% off the prices we have been quoted so we were happy. We shopped in Wanchai. There were times when he got the same prices as we did and there may be some fat in the margin for his company BUT at the end of the day, he managed a discount to anything we could get

4. I would press your contractor to do the bathroom the way you want it AS my experience is that they ALWAYS say they can't, when the real answer is that they won't. When pressed, he backed down on a number of issues including moving the toilet and shower

Good to see this thread revived. Am about to embark on a flat reno here. Lots to learn and do. Running against time as apparently contractors till start to take their Chinese New Year holiday in around mid-January next year!