Posted by
MsOnion
13 yrs ago
Never thought I'd be faced with this, but 14-year-old has run away. Well, moved out without permission is maybe a better way to put it.
We know where she is and she's met us twice in the last week to retrieve things, but refuses to come home. She hates it here, hates us, etc. Won't say why so we can begin to address the problem.
Police have been notified, they asked if they should retrieve her. She threatened that if the police bring her back home by force, she will run away and 'disappear', so I said 'no', but gave them the address where she's staying.
Beyond the pain and worry this is causing, I'm not sure what the legal issues may be. (She refuses any counseling, btw)
Has anybody else faced this sort of thing? What happened and how was it resolved?
We've tried to be reasonable, we've tried to be strict, we've tried positive reinforcement and negative. She's been head-strong and stubborn since she was 2.
I realize my question will inevitably attract the snide, off-the-cuff sarcastic responses (there's always someone who feels the need to dismiss very complicated issues with a throw-away remark) but for the rest of you out there who don't mind offering some thoughtful suggestions, your advice/opinion will be appreciated, especially if you've faced a similar situation.
Thanks
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I've had a few conversations recently about how healthy/harmful HK is for families.
Not the advice you're looking for, but if you're both working full time and trying to be involved parents it can be tough when most of your kids' friends have only the helper to answer to. Our teen has complained bitterly that we're too 'hands on'...apparently friends' parents don't ask any questions and let them come and go as they please. At least, that's the story they're telling.
I've had many heart-to-hearts with friends about their teens here, but don't see any of it addressed on these forums. I wonder why...
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Sorry this is happening to you and your family.
Maybe a letter to your daughter may help - she doesn't seem ready to listen to reason (or threats or advice or anything else) and I'm sure conversations end up getting heated or going nowhere.
Perhaps a letter explaining how you feel about her (unconditional love), how you worry about her, how you want what's best for her etc... and some suggestions for going forward and making the family work again. Offer options: eg, if you come home, we can change/revisit xyz.
I wouldn't threaten in the letter, but perhaps play on her guilt and her love for you (and any siblings if she has any).
Sorry I haven't got any practical experience of this (my children are younger); but I'm just imagining the anger, fear and isolation an estranged teen may feel. Tap into those feelings if you can in the letter (subtly, of course). A letter gives distance and time - maybe that's what she needs in order to think clearly.
Good luck!
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Thanks BG, that's actually been one of her biggest complaints about us.
And thanks very much, Honkyblues, for the practical suggestion. At this point I'm not feeling very positive, so my initial reaction is 'it won't work'...but actually, nothing has worked so far, so I've got nothing to lose.
I want to begin negotiations to get her back home, but fear the precedent it establishes of her being in complete control. Her desire is to be treated like a grownup, but without the responsibilities, (of course). She wants to be able to come and go as she pleases, and to simply tell us when she plans to return home of an evening, if at all.
If we say 'no', then no deal. She seems to have zero sense of guilt about what she's doing to her family.
Yes there are siblings (2), and they are very curious and concerned about why their older sister has moved out and is being so hurtful. So on top of trying to do the right thing with the eldest, we're also trying to handle this delicate situation with our other 2. And of course, whatever 'deals' we make with her will be expected of our other two when they get older.
Can't afford boarding school, don't want to ship her off to relatives, and if we get social services involved she either goes into hiding or gets put into a group home for runaways and troubled girls. Not sure that will improve the situation.
Well, thanks again for the feedback. I think I'll try the letter idea.
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What is her financial situation, if you don't mind my asking? Since she has moved out, have you given her money for food etc? Maybe if she has no access to money, she'll be forced to come back. But if you see that happening, you could give her 'face' by asking her to come back (so she doesn't feel humiliated about coming crawling back, if you see what I mean).
I totally understand what you mean about not wanting her to feel too much in control. But at the end of the day, she actually isn't in control. You are! You are the ones who could call the police or the social services, you are the ones with the money and the security... she might feel like she's in control right now, but you will be the ones offering the 'deal' to come back. 14 is actually a pretty powerless age. And this rebellion is probably about feeling powerless in some way.
What I'm trying to say is that if you let her feel that she's 'won' in some way, she may come willingly back to you. But really - you'll be the ones who have won. You'll have your daughter back under your roof and that's the most important thing. It will actually be win-win - though your daughter may see it differently. And perhaps it's important to her teenage pride to make some concessions (while still being good parents).
Whatever you choose to do, I'm sure you'll do it with good heart. Your daughter may not now appreciate what you are doing for her, but I guess that's the role of a parent. I really feel for you and wish you luck.
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Thanks Cara for your insight. I appreciate your opinion from the other side of the coin, so to speak. I hope you and your mom eventually reconciled and are closer now.
And Honkyblues, we're not giving her any money specifically because we don't want to support her in this decision. Her boyfriend is getting money from his (divorced) parents, and that's floating them. Talk about walking a fine line: to take in a runaway...is it enabling or providing safety? We're just glad to know where she is and that she's not on the street. But it puts everyone in such an awkward position.
I like what you said about us ultimately being in control. I hadn't thought of it from that perspective.
Again, thanks to both of you for your sympathy and suggestions. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, it's horrible. As parents, the worst--after you know she's safe--is beating yourself up over how you should have done things differently: If only you hadn't done such-and-such, if only you had said something differently. It's been tough on each of us individually and on our marriage.
I think I'm going to start on that letter now.
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some disclaimer first:
- i don't have kids your age and no first hand experience, so take everything i say below with a pinch of salt
- and while my post might sound critical, i do mean it construcive and providing an alternative view to the above posters
actaully what i hear from OPs post is all about her and nothing about her daughter. it's the family's pain, her pain, her insecurity, her lack of control, her everything. it seems to me a very self-centric view of the situation.
"there's a time to give kids roots, and there's a time to given them wings to fly. and if they truly love you, they will fly back to you", is a German saying.
if you truly and unconditionally love your daughter, then why don't you show your love? how about supporting her financially to make her outside stay viable, safe and positive? how about a shopping trip with her to Ikea to furnish her new place? how about respecting her right to be left alone if she doesn't want to be bothered? there are many ways to give her 'wings' and i am sure you can think of the best for your daughter.
but one thing should be crystal clear to you: the only way to get her back (if ever) is for her to feel your unconditional love and support for her decision (not making the decision for her), because:
a) if - with your support - her current lifestyle works out, then good for everyone and she will be happy for the rest of her life that you supported her at this stage
b) if - despite your support - her current lifestyle doesn't work out, she is old enough to realize this herself. in this case, if you have done everything to support her, she will feel natural to be able to come home without losing face.
maybe this is a generational thing, but the solution looks so obvious to me (albeit painful for the parents since they have to let go first before they can get her love back)
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Thanks, cara, my thoughts exactly. I WOULD give her desires serious consideration if she were even as young as 16. But 14 is just too young, both legally and cognitively. (When talking to her, it is obvious that she has NOT thought this through. Her description of how this will play out sounds movie-like, always with a happy ending and unrealistic expectations. She thinks she's going to be able to get a job--though it's illegal at her age--and move in to an apt, go to school and pay her bills.)
My original post is, of course, "all about" me because...well, who else's point of view can I offer? Actually, now that I look back at it, it's unfair to say I mention "nothing about (my) daughter" when I say SHE moved out, SHE has visited us twice to retrieve some things, she hates us, she hates living here, she refuses to say why she feels this way, and she has threatened to 'disappear' if we contact the police.
I guess I could have speculated more on her point of view and reasoning, but I don't think it's fair for me to speak for her. I can quote her and honestly report her actions, but to try to write a post seeking advice for myself by trying to guess at her feelings seems pointless.
Besides, here in Hong Kong it's actually illegal for her to be living without an adult guardian. I don't want to break the law to 'show my love'.
I've tried the letter Honkyblues, btw. No response yet. Still waiting.
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My 2 cents would be to ensure she's protecting herself sexually. Have you discussed contraception with her ?
No doubt if she's living with her boyfriend they may also be experimenting sexually.
You don't want a teenage pregnancy on your hands too
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i agree with cara
14 is just not the age
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>> But 14 is just too young, both legally and cognitively.
I think parents often don't understand how perceptive their children can be, or what they are really feeling. I mean, many kids at that age don't disclose their inner feelings to their parents. Perhaps your daughter feels that you don't understand her. She wants to be treated like an adult at 14, which is maybe unrealistic, but at the same time, her cognitive maturity shouldn't be underestimated. This is only my opinion, but I think you would probably do better appealing to her with reason than trying to play mind games ("play on her guilt" as a previous poster suggested), as she'll probably see straight through it, and just resent you even more for being condescending.
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like i said, i wanted to provide an alternative view and probably how i would deal with it. just one more comment: the 14 of today is the 16 of 10-20 years ago.
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Like you said, she's been head-strong and stubborn since she was 2.
No point trying to discuss / force your opinon on her, it may make matters worse? Perhaps let her know that you still care for her, and that she's welcome to return home any time. Meanwhile whilst she staying away from home perhaps offer some pocket money for the living expenses and in return she phones home every day?
I have a 9 years old daughter who is also stubborn. Takes it from her dad / me.
:o(
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My kids are younger, so I haven't walked in your shoes. I wasn't an easy teen in many ways according to my mom. I think the letter writing is quite a good idea. Writing helps to get things off your mind and the other can digest it within their own personal space. I would probably continue to write, keep it light and airy and accept that it may take some time before she comes around. Not waiting for her reply, just showing you love her, you care for her, etc. I wouldn't push or rush a stubborn child. Do you know whether she's still attending school? Do you have contact with the school, with her teacher about her behavior, attendance, etc. Is the school aware? I agree 14 is too young, apart from the legal consequences, but do agree it's probably different when we were 14 ...
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I'm not being critical here but how can a 14-year-old run away without money? Can't you just report her as missing and get the police to send her back.
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Hi Ms.Onion,
I have seen a lot of these things happened. For sure she have a problem that she doesn’t want to tell u, ask her and find out the real reason why she is moving out. I might be wrong but once you know and find out her reasons, you might want to consider giving her options with conditions of course. Like she can move out if that is she really wants to, but mention that she is not in legal age and any person can report her to the police or social service and her boyfriend can get into trouble for eloping/living with minor. Give her an option that if she changes her minds she can go back and live with you guys again. But don’t give her food, money or any material things to support her running away. This is painful as a mother but she will realize how hard life is and if you guys are expat she doesn’t really have other family to run beside you and she will go back to you. “SHE HAS TO KNOW THE CONSQUENCES OF HER DECISIONS”. Another option would be, call a police and bring her back and give her option to see her bf twice or three times a week, be a little flexible with her bed time. But no more allowance, limit her phone bill by switching it into a prepaid card or even expensive material things. In that way, she is totally dependent on you financially. Showing you are in charge that you can make things limited for her.
I know that you mentioned that her boyfriend have a lot of money? How old is he? Where did he get that money?
You can also possibly talk to her boyfriend and enlighten him about the bigger responsibility in the future. Like making her pregnant or she is still a minor. In that way, he would push her back to you or talk to his parents too….
Also, does she have her passport? I know that in Hong Kong she is already have to carry her Hong Kong ID. Do you have a copy? You have to alert Hong Kong Immigration for possible running away out of the country/ Hong Kong.
Tough love is hard and this is a very sensitive and critical situation between you too. But never give up on her she will soon realize it and you both are going to come out here stronger and better person/mom/daughter.
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selda
13 yrs ago
as someone who ran away from home at 16, i speak out of experience.
I hated everything about my family when i was a teenager, and even the prospect of sleeping in train stations and begging for food didn't deter me. I remember i was so determined to put some distance between me and my family that i even refused to talk to them. Once a week i would call my aunt and reassure her that i was fine. I didn't speak to my parents for a year! I was very mature for my age, didn't mess with drugs, and didn't drop out of school. In fact my grades got even better once i started living in a squat with older friends. I finished high school with 5 A's because i was incredibly focused on my life, something i couldn't do while at home with my parents because of all the fighting (they tried very hard to impose their values on me and all i could see was middle-class hypocrisy.)
If you want to get your daughter back in the future, let her go now. Treat her as an adult (she thinks she is one), respect her decision, and tell her that freedom comes at a price. If she is willing to pay that price, sacrifice her material comforts at home to pave her own way, i am sure she will turn into an amazing person.
It's not easy to be a parent, but sometimes it's even more difficult to be a teenager. I know my teenage years were hell. I was far too mature and independent to be treated like a child. And despite what my parents thought at the time, i knew perfectly well what i wanted.
Good luck!
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selda, may I ask how is your relationship with your parents now?
Thing is, Ms Onion's daughter is only 14. She's only been a teenager for how long? Two years. She's too young to be treated like an adult or given freedom.
As a parent myself, I don't think I could accept this.
But taking Selda's experience into account, how about negotiating then?
"Come home now because you are 14 and still too young... but at the age of 17-18, if you still want to leave home, I'll set you free. Come home now and study hard so you can prepare yourself for the time when you want to leave".
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How old is this 'boyfriend'? Couldn't he be arrested?
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I'd like to thank everyone who has offered their opinion and advice.
Allow me to fill in some missing details: We talked 'protection' and she assures me it's being used; the boyfriend is same age as she; providing her with bus fair to/from school; wrote the letter and expressed love and acceptance, plus a trip to Ikea to outfit her bedroom AT HOME...no response yet; school knows all and is working with us on family counseling and making sure she attends lessons; if we have the police bring her home, she has threatened to 'disappear' and go into hiding...at least this way she is still in contact with us and going to school; we've got all her id docs like passport and HKID; like Selda (thanks for the post!), she wants to be treated like an adult and considers herself VERY mature...but the reality is that she is still very immature in so many ways and this is never more obvious than when she allows her emotions (disappointment, anger, annoyance) to derail her stated desires.
I believe that when she's 16, she will be VERY mature, but right now she's experiencing the conflict of intellect vs. maturity. She understands so much and so little, it is leaving her out of balance and at the mercy of her own moods and whims.
It's hard to watch, but it's been over 2 weeks now since she's left and I'm beginning to resign myself to the idea that she may never come home. We've even considered leaving Hong Kong, but aren't convinced that will necessarily be a step in the right direction.
Hoping the family counseling will help.
Thanks again to everyone. I wasn't expecting the support that so many offered. It is very appreciated.
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selda
13 yrs ago
GemmaW,
now that i am in my late 40s, my relationship with my elderly parents is a bit better, though i have chosen to live in another continent and see them only once a year.
The issues that made me seek independence so early are still unresolved. I still bear the emotional scars of dealing with an authoritarian fascistic father who wanted his children to be exactly like him, and a loving but submissive mother who never found the courage to stand up for herself and her children, and lived in the shadow of her controlling husband. When i return home i stay with friends because living with my parents is too stressful. My father has become paranoid and seldom leaves his flat now. Since he cannot lock up anybody else, he has become his own prison warden. My sister, who never rebelled, has been suffering from anxiety and depression for most of her life. I count myself lucky that i found the strength to leave home at such an early age and successfully build my life away from this dysfunctional family.
Ms Onion,
i don't know why your daughter rebelled against you, maybe she is just trying to give shape to her identity and needs to do so in opposition to everything you stand for. My parents were not bad people, just the wrong parents for me. If i had been submissive like my sister, i would still be regarded by them as the perfect daughter, alas one who suffers from anxiety and is still financially dependent from them at age 45!
I agree that at 14 she still needs a lot of support: you can support her to finish high school, but set some rules for the future, such as stopping all financial support when she reaches 18 so that she gets to understand that money doesn't grow on trees. Her relationship with her boyfriend may not last that long and she needs to understand what the deal is.
If i were you, i would not leave HK, because if you do she may never recover from the trauma of leaving her boyfriend and friends behind. At this age they are more important than anything else. She may turn self-destructive, use drugs, etc.
You need a lot of patience at this stage. She may be unreasonable, but if you get too harsh with her, you may lose her forever.
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MsOnion. It's obviously up to you how you bring up your kids so it's not really my place to offer advice. However, as you have posted there are a few things here I don't understand. Firstly, is it legal for you to allow her to do this? If anything happens to her, aren't you responsible as the parent? I would call her bluff regarding the police and explain the legal situation to her. Who is this 14-year-old guy anyway? Who are his parents? Why are they funding him?
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I went through this in 2000 with my 14 year old son – I did what most posts are saying now to you – it did not work.
Yes he came home occasionally, yes he moved out with another family and yes I provided money etc etc but unless you get control and quick the matter will get further out of hand and you may be facing teen pregnancy, drugs and so on. Think hard as a mother about the dangers your daughter could be in and do something about it. Don’t ask for advice – assert yourself and bring her back home under your roof where you can do something about the problem you face today rather than .letrting her walk into further problems. She may be headstrong but she is in that position because she has been allowed to get there.
All that aside, you are getting advice here from adults, people who cannot relate to what your daughter is thinking. When my son came round to talking again it was all about boredom as we parents don’t think or act like teenagers want to act. I suggest you talk to her friends and get them to let you know what she wants, my bet is she has told them all she left you because ……… and she will not tell you the truth because maybe she feels you wont understand. Please consult her friends and find out from them and let the brighter ones know how much you are hurting and how much you love your daughter and let them know how much your other two are being affected by what she is doing.
Then bring her home and work it out – if you don’t do something now and then she gets into serious trouble you will just blame yourself for doing nothing. If you fail then you can truly say to yourself I did all I could. This is not me speaking but the advice from my now 25 year old son who knows how your daughter feels.
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Opinion from a different culture (indian) :
agree 100% with Bastille though a lot depends on many factors that are present in a family.
get the police involved. Get her back. By force of course...why are you losing time writing letters and explaining. All this was done and she did not understand. So you are the boss, it is your house, your rules apply. she is only 14 - get her back. Then manage the situation at home. otherwise, be ready to face a mess that you will be forced to manage over next 25 years. She is just 14, you will have to do the thinking for her....with her actions she proved that she cannot do it well. She need to see the police, rules, regulations etc
Tell her that she gets complete freedom when she turns 18 (or after when she is financially comfortable).
Sorry if all this appears harsh...but this is what i would have done on day 1 when she left so that the "other party" gets no time to brainwash her.
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Totally Agree with this :
"If you want to get your daughter back in the future, let her go now. Treat her as an adult (she thinks she is one), respect her decision, and tell her that freedom comes at a price. If she is willing to pay that price, sacrifice her material comforts at home to pave her own way, i am sure she will turn into an amazing person.
It's not easy to be a parent, but sometimes it's even more difficult to be a teenager. I know my teenage years were hell. I was far too mature and independent to be treated like a child. And despite what my parents thought at the time, i knew perfectly well what i wanted.
Good luck!"
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Bring her back by force and you may indeed lose her forever.
I think, as selda said, she wants to be treated as an adult? Give her what she wants.
If she is lucky, her relationship will be a good one and she will graduate highschool with the love of her boyfriend and her parents intact.
If her relationship with her bf will run its course and she will come home to the parents who told her that she will always have a place in their house (and not turn her room into a pool room or something).
14 is young, but not so young as to withstand the authoritarian will of parents who believe that they know everything and will not see it any other way.
I have seen it first hand, and I am with selda on this, there comes a time to simply let go, and that time isnt always when you say so.
The silver lining on this whole crapshow is that she is (a) using protectiong (b) financially sorted (c) still in school.
Trust me, if you push her and or you tell her she cannot come home, then she may end up on the streets or god-forbid, if her relationship ends, she will refuse to come home and then get into drugs or lord knows worse in order to keep a roof over her head.
She wants to learn life the hard way, you should let her. But dont do it as an "I'll teach you a lesson" thing, do it as an act of kindness. Let her figure it out herself and be hands off but also let her know you are there if she needs you, not "I will give you new furniture only if you return home". No conditions. She screws up, its a lesson learned for her, and would be nice if like when we were really little our parents were there for us when we screwed up. Seems unfair to say that stops because you are 14 and still screwing up. If you genuinely believe she is still too young, all the more reason to be there for her.
Rebellion never happened in my best friends household because he had parents that were in touch with reality and gave their kids respect and trust. He was allowed to come home when he liked, even to have a part time job when in highschool and ride a motorbike. Did that mean his Mum didnt worry and stay up until he got home? No, she totally did. He said he would see the light in his house go off once his motor could be heard approaching the house at night. Totally the opposite of the house I grew up in. We were kept on a very short leash. As a teenager I was simply not given any trust or respect, and this led to rebellion by my older sibling and myself. My youngest sibling was the total "yes" kid and so was fawned on and now as an adult he suffers from issues with subjucation, alcoholism and gambling addiction!
Go figure.
Not saying your household is authoritarian, but maybe it is...and if you ever want your daughter to love and respect you for having been there for her as parents, maybe what you need is to lengthen the leash but to let her know that you are always going to be there for her when she chooses to come back.
Maybe the fact you have tried to be positive, negative, supportive, strong arming...maybe all that is confusing as an approach. Pick one and stick with it. It shows you know what you say and that you mean it.
Lets not kid ourselves, being a good parent is learned on the job, not part of our nature. Just coz you give this daughter some leeway doesnt mean you have to expect the other 2 kids to take you for granted. Each child is different.
Good luck.
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Each situation is different. I hope this one turns out well for both the parents and the child. After having said that, what a child needs is love. The parents have shown it in a different manner she expects, thus the conflict.
How can love be shown in this situation? By assuring her that she is loved, and she has a place to go back to in her "home" with her family. At the same time, it must be made clear that what she's doing is not right. "My child, I don't like what you've done/doing and I never will. But I love you, you can come home anytime." After all, true love does not tolerate all wrongs.
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FACT: Sexual intercourse with a girl under 16 is an offence - For an adult offender it carries a maximum term of 5 years imprisonment, so to use an old-fashioned term, it is a felony. In law, a girl under 16 cannot consent to intercourse. Note that it also a criminal offence to aid and abet same.
FACT: kids who live without parental or other support are far more likely to resort to drugs (starting with recreational) then moving on.
OPINION: They are about as likely to be living a life of virginal purity as they are to be eating nutritious meals and enjoying a wholesome lifestyle.
FACT: Although it is a long time since I was a teenage boy, one of the statements I would be least likely to make would be "Oh. I'm out of condoms - Let's wait until tomorrow."
FACT: If your girl goes to a doctor/hospital with symptoms that suggest she is pregnant, she will be asked her age/ID. When she says 14 (or 15) the doctor will be obliged to call the cops, because an offence has been committed. The cops will investigate and ask you for a written statement. You will need to be careful what you say.
OPINION: The boy's parents need their heads examining (but that's another story).
FACT: Your child is your responsibility. Forget this fluffy love stuff and face up to it. The argument that today's 14 year old is yesterday's 16 is BS - Does that mean we will let 10 year-olds bonk by 2020?
I do sympathise with your situation, believe me, but your girl is a CHILD. So far in these postings only Miss Venezuela seems to suspect that what is hapening is a crime (i.e in the legal sense). Take my opinions and throw them in the bin if you wish; but the facts will remain facts.
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I have been following this thread for a while as well and wondered how no one picked up on the legality issue so far. Seems Duncan had hit the nail on the head.
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duncan,
1) the boy is a boy (same age) and not an adult offender, hence the law you quoted does not apply (and even if it would, both parties would be liable since anyone under 16 is assumed not being able to consent to sexual intercourse under hk law)
2) dependong on country, around 5% of girls and boys have sex before the age of 14
my view: i would throw your facts into the bin
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Mrs Onion,
I identify with you. I am hoping that your situation has resolved since you last posted. My personal viewpoints are socially conservative.
I believe that you need to get your daughter home immediately, no compromise.
My opinion is that the parent of her boyfriend needs to support you, not their son, in managing this situation. They need to not allow your daughter to remain in their home.
The parent of your boyfriend is probably relieved that your daughter is creating some stability/ diversion in his life, at the expense of your family life.
I believe that you should involve her boyfriend's school and inform them of the situation.
Your daughter's school should involve their linked social workers in the situation. They will be able to provide accurate information on these specific issues and action appropriate referrals. I don't really anticipate that you have a choice in this decision. You are her legal guardian and you have a duty to ensure that she is protected.
I believe that you should involve the police and social workers to work towards retrieving your daughter. Don't worry about consequences of hostels at this point.
When you get her back, she should work towards regaining your trust so that you will allow her to socialise at some point in the future.
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I am very sorry to hear of your situation Ms. Onion.
As a parent, I can understand how you feel. However, my view is the same as Duncan's above and the Indian poster.
The facts are this young man is committing an offence if engaging in sex with an underage girl. The young woman is in moral danger.
She also needs to know that not only is she putting herself at risk, but that she is endangering her boyfriend's future for life. If he is apprehended he will always be classed as a 'sex offender', and a risk to children. There are cases where even when a young man has married a person with whom he has had an underage relationship, he has been placed on a sex offender's register.
She is too young to know the law, and the implications of this. I think you must help her understand the situation she is putting not just herself in, but the boy and his family.
I have to say I find it quite ridiculous that you have allowed her to think that you even entertain the notion that she actually can go 'underground'. I hardly think that she is Ronald Biggs or with connections so powerful that she can country hop. I would let her see that you have been patient with her up till now but that you are going to move, not just on her, but on her boyfriend if she doesn't return to the home or at least to a 'safe' situation such as with a relative or boarding school or some other situation, or somewhere neutral until a reasonable solution can be worked out.
This boy's family have to be brought into an awareness of the consequences of their actions in housing an underage runaway, and if possible all adults should sit down together and construct a solution to this.
Ultimately, at the end of the day, you have to accept it is your responsibility to take care of this young person. You are not doing that. You are enabling her to be exposed to danger. In my opinion, she would probably benefit from being institutionalised for some time so that she can see that the world doesn't turn on what she wants it to.
I would get the police involved. But if you don't want to do this, at least get in contact with Youth Outreach. This organisation may be able to talk some sense into both her and the boy. There are also family mediators at the Hong Kong Family Welfare Association.
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Given the young ones' funding limitation, I'd guess that she may come back sooner than you expect. However, the important question is whether they decide to take a bit of risk to earn money, illegally,in order to prolong this exercise. This is the part I would worry about. I'd suggest putting a PI on your daughter over the next week or so. You may discover things you have never realized.
I think your child needs you now more than ever. However, it would be important how you handle it. Strong arming isn't going to help. But a rescue would be looked upon differently.
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Ms. Onion (and all), This is a subject that has consumed my life for nearly 4 years of the 7, I have lived in HK. My son, now 17, is serving an 8+ month burglary charge committed this last summer. I am a single dad who has failed at reigning in my son's actions a well providing him with a sound moral compass. I am the first put put up my hand in acknowledging what I didn't do. That said, raising a teen in HK is a difficult and unique experience, especially when you work all the time and you don't have support. There are few social resources as well as the difficulty for young people to find they're role in this society. The private school systems (for expats') seems to only support children with a strong aptitude for learning, where as children, like my son, get left behind. It's was aforementioned that one of the parents found themselves not being able to afford these schools and thats a camp where I found myself as well. These pressures are compounded to the fact I/ we cannot afford leave HK just yet. As I said, I take a certain responsibility of the current state of my son, but I also have to stress that living in HK isn't helping out much.
On the positive side, being institutionalized in HK, is very different than his would-be experience back home. The detention center keeps the buys busy, giving some vocational training and providing some on-purpose way to live. The guards are respectful, even friendly. My son seems positive and happy and never complains about his circumstance. Though he really doesn't appear that remorseful in any obvious way of his actions (this worries me), he does seem positive in his outlook to make a fresh start. Although, in his words, in reflection of when he was a runaway living on the streets of Causeway Bay, doing drugs and who knows what, he cannot believe how easy it all was and really it seemed like it , as was a loads of fun. This is probably more common with our kids in HK than any of us would like to admit and its a wake up call that HK does offer a kind of Pleasure Island (Pinocchio). I thought I would mention that his runaway calendar lasted a full year.
My work is cut out for me when he's released. First, I have to make sure my son finishes school. Second, I have to get him out of HK as soon as humanly possible.
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At the risk of sounding harsh, maybe calling the Police and having ur daughter thrown in jail and have to spend a week or two at a social services domitory might 'slap some sense' into her.
I don't know about your daughter, but I encounter many 'Gong Ju Beng' in HK, is your daughter one of them?
I have a friend who grew up in Social Service housing 10-18yrs, her family abandon her when she was young, she is a resiliant determined girl who will go very far in life, she had nothing but her brain and determination. Perhaps spending sometime with these less fortunate types will help ur daughter see some sense and realize how very lucky she is to have a caring family.
Good luck it not easy being a parent is it.
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I would just like to add one things - you should forget all those people who say if you force your daughter to come home you will loose her forever because she will leave you and not come back.
If you dont do anything at all then the temptations out there are too serious because she is too young to understand them - she has to get by day to day and without learning the value of life and money she may well go into trying to get "easy money" imagine what these dangers are prostitution, drug dealing, drug trafficking etc etc which around Asia carries the death penalty. Then there is the slow death from AIDS, hepatitis etc.
I say go and get her today and bring her home before you dont have that option anymore.
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What should Ms Onion do after she's forced her daughter to come home? How can Ms Onion stop her daughter from running again without chaining her up? Then if she does run away again, what if she doesn't leave an address?
What if, touch wood, her daughter is gone for a year or two by which time Ms Onion could be returning to her home country? How then will her daughter find her if she decides to come back?
I think Ms Onion wants her back as well but the problem is what is the best way to do it.
Ms Onion mentions that the boy's parents are divorced so he is by himself. I'm sure he'd try to keep her for company because she's probably the closest person he's got.
There needs to be a compromise between Ms Onion and her daughter. For example, come home now and 2-3 years if she still wants to leave, leave.. but at least be financially and mentally prepared for it.
It is very true that without any real income, her daughter can get into serious trouble with drugs, prostitution etc. She probably will not come to Ms Onion if money is short. You never know if her boyfriend will encourage her to do these things to keep food on the table, so to speak.
The thing is, how should Ms Onion play her cards in order to get her daughter back. She's only 14 but you know what teenagers are like. Headstrong and stubborn.
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selda
13 yrs ago
There is a lot of scaremongering on this thread.
If her boyfriend is living off his divorced parents, then there is no need for a 14 y/o to engage in illegal activities to make ends meet.
As to drugs, underage sex leading to pregnancy etc, teenagers living at home with both their parents are also at risk. It all comes down to a kid's personality. A strong-willed, mature 14 y/o living with her boyfriend may actually be less prone to taking drugs than an unhappy 14 y/o who feels trapped at home.
Ms Onion knows why her daughter is unhappy at home, we don't.
If she ran away because she cannot stand authoritarian parents who treat her like a child, then of course forcing her to return home is not the solution, is it? She would run away again.
It would be better to reach a compromise, such as urging her to come home because of legal issues such as custody of a minor, but allowing her to spend a couple of nights a week with her boyfriend.
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I am still backing selda on this.
Of course, we are all coming at this problem from the life experience we all have. What would our parents have done, what would we do differently.
Bringing up a daughter is no picnic. And a headstrong one is tougher still, most times, if the mother is worried about her daughter making the same mistakes she did etc, it can lead to huge clashes.
I know what it was like for my sister...not easy.
GemmaW also has a point - what happens AFTER bringing the daughter home? Chain her to a wall?
I think its important to look at the root of the problem, why did she leave in the first place? Instead of scrambling to drag her back kicking and screaming, best to try to see how you can fix what made her run in the first place. I still think its better to know where she is, know she is safe, and to be supportive (and grateful that she is not dating some old dude or worse, on drugs!). She's got clothes on her back, food in her belly, a roof over her head, an education in her mind...at some point she will come around, but its going to be on her own will, not someone elses.
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I think it goes pretty much without saying that if the girl comes back, the whole family will have to be in counselling.
I have to say that I find it disturbing that the issue of teenage sex is so lightly flicked off by some posters who feel that it is no different from what might happen in anyone's home. Surely if a parent suspected that their child was engaging in underage sex wherever it took place, it should draw some attention, or is it the new norm that we let our kids do anything because we are frightened they might make a fuss and complain about us being mean?
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Believe it or not, flashback, back when I was in highschool, a long time ago, there was a girl on my bus who had a big mouth on her and I recall her saying she was screwing some squaddie. She was from a typical HK expat family, multi-cultural, multi-racial (French-Pakistani), but I think both her parents worked...so she was always popping what she called "chill pills" (I'm guessing they were qualudes, from what I sampled of them back then!), getting tanked at son-of-a-beach (some dive bar back at one of the beaches back then) and publicly sucking face with that squaddie of hers...
She was 13.
Where were her parents then?
*Shrug* They had no idea what she was up to. But even I was shocked back then, 13??? I mean, really?
That was a long time ago, so what are kids like now? Hell, did we even have internet back then? Lol. Kids are innundated with all sorts of imagery sexualizing them far too early. Parents dress their little girls in fashion far too grown up for their age...high heels, strapless summer dresses, make up...
How do you keep your little girl a little girl when she is surrounded by a whole class of girls who are growing up too soon?
Back then, that 13 year old girl was the exception, not the rule.
I think more parents need to find a way to keep lines of communication open, especially for daughters, hate to say it but boys kinda grow like weeds...as long as boys have some strong male rolemodels in their life they should be good. Girls mature a lot faster than boys, and libido in girls is more to worry about than handing your boy a pack of condoms and letting him watch some horrifying movies about teen pregnancy (at least thats what I am hoping, lol).
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selda
13 yrs ago
Flashback,
teenage sex is no news and parents should wake up to its reality and discuss it openly with their kids instead of hoping that their "child" would be different.
Only yesterday i read in the paper that a 10 y/o posted pictures of herself naked on her facebook page. The page was taken down by the site admin that alerted the police. That's how her parents found out.
The girl didn't see anything wrong about it, and pointed out that her classmates (both boys and girls) exchange naked pictures of themselves with their mobile phones!
We live in a very sexualized world, and it's not something that i am particularly happy about, but it's the world that adults have created, so i wouldn't blame the kids. Yes, you can deny access to the Internet to your child, but she can just as easily access questionable websites by going to a friend's home or an Internet cafe. There is no stopping a child's curiosity. At age 12 i read The Godfather because a friend had told me it contained graphic references to sex. At the same age i wanted to "experiment" with my boyfriend but he was too inexperienced, so at 13 i left him for an older guy (who at 17 had already had several girlfriends).
As Justin Incredible pointed out, girls' libido is something to worry about :-)
Did teenage sex destroy my life? Of course not. And i knew enough about pregnancy risks to protect myself. When a 14 y/o classmate got pregnant (very religious parents who never discussed sex with her), my mother finally took the courage to ask me if i needed any advice on the matter. I asked her where i could get the pill because i was afraid that the diaphragm that i had got from a feminists- run reproductive health clinic would not be 100% safe. The clinic would only prescribe the pill to girls over 16. My mum was shocked, to say the least, and refused to acknowledge my sexual maturity. She simply told me to stop having sex because "i was too young for it". Do you think i stopped? I must thank my lucky star that the cap worked really well and i never got pregnant.
Teenage girls have raging hormones that makes them super fertile (and very horny), that's the way nature designed us. Culture can inhibit nature, but only to a certain extent and at a high price. In tribal societies it's perfectly normal for girls of 14 to have children and those pregnancies are a lot less complicated than later ones.
Parents should offer advice on contraception, emotional issues related to sex, etc. because prohibition doesn't work.
I was a teenager in the late 70s...so i can only imagine what today's teenagers are up to. Unlike them, I had never watched any porn, i had only read about sex in books i read in the library ( i wouldn't even dare to borrow them) and my idea of sexual health was based on the feminist bible "Our bodies, Ourselves" (really excellent)
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That....was some damn good reading, and some sound advice, IMHO.
Abstinence doesnt work, just ask Sarah Palin's kid! Lol.
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selda
13 yrs ago
If abstinence doesn't even work for Catholic priests who have been trained for years, what hope is there that a 14 y/o would be able to resist the temptation of sexual pleasure?
And why should we deny that pleasure to teenagers who have reached sexual maturity? Sex is a pretty healthy activity, especially when you compare it to binge-drinking, eating junk food, taking drugs, playing video games all night, etc. Teenage angst exists only in societies that invented the term "teenager" to keep people in a limbo where they are powerless for too long. In traditional societies once you reach sexual maturity you are treated like an adult, you have the same rights and obligations. They have initiations and rites of passage to mark the moment a child becomes an adult. No grey area, no limbo where to get bored and rebellious. In very religious societies where pre-marital sex is frowned upon, kids are married off really early because it's understood that it's the only way to ensure they won't lose their virginity. So, if even very religious kids in places like Pakistan have a hard time repressing their sexual instincts, just imagine a kid growing up in a place where sex is openly discussed and displayed everywhere.
How old were Romeo and Juliet, by the way?
Being sexually active gives a young person more confidence and emotional balance, and i remember very well the difference between those who had already had sex and those who hadn't.
Which parent doesn't want a confident kid??
As to academic achievements, parents should worry more about video games or porn addiction than actual sex.
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Dear Ms. Onion,
I know this is a trying time for you and the family. Based on my personal experience, my best advice for you is to weather the storm...it will sort itself out. My sister ran away when she was 15 and lived with her boyfriend for 3 months. She was a wild child in every sense of the world. She dropped out high school,hung out with the 'wrong' crowd, smoked, drank etc. My parents tried everything, including asking the police to arrest her...nothing worked. She did eventually come around but it took some time and it was hard reintegrating back into the family. It took a long time for my relationship with her to heal. Fast forward 12 years later, she has 2 degrees and just got married to a wonderful man. She is very grounded, caring and responsible now...something I would have never thought was possible back then. Just remember that everything you taught her growing up will eventually kick in when her brain matures and she realizes that everyone's life doesn't revolve around her. Eventually, she will come back....maybe when her boyfriend's parents get tired of supporting her or her boyfriend decides to move on or vice versa. Right now she doesn't have to worry about how to pay rent, bills etc. The realities of living independently haven't hit her yet and they won't hit her until she stops getting support...once that happens and she realizes that life is much harder on the outside, she will become wiser. So please be patient, don't drive yourself crazy worrying, and don't blame yourself...
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i read the posts with concern and sympathy. being a mother of a 14 year old girl. i know how difficult it is to maintain connection with her. it is a test of love and patience.
you have been very brave to take steps to find solutions through counselling and other means like asiaxpat.com
from my experience with my 14 year old girl, she is growing up quickly and is finding her identity through doing things more independently and connecting with her friends. she no longer wants to be treated like a little girl and be controlled like a little girl.
she however understands reasoning. when i talk with her, she can present facts and arguments like an adult and some times the arguments are good. i have to think about it, explore my reasons behind things, go back to her a couple of days later, to some times accept the good points she has made and sometimes presents my points of view. when she accepts my point of view, she would say 'ok' and then quiet. this means she accepts my point. this could come back and forth a couple of times, and eventually we are normally able to reach some sort of agreement.
The issues i have dealing with include keeping me informed when she is out with friends, conditions for sleepovers, tidying her room, etc.
My friends have taught me to express my love and intentions like
"i just need to know that you are safe." (over calling me)
it helps also to talk to her friends, the sensible ones i mean. one time i called her friends when i could not get in touch with her late at night. (this got her real mad, for perceived lack of respect and lack of face among her friends i think) i called one of her friends, she gave me info i needed, comforted me and helped me find her. amazing maturity of another 14 year old.
another issue is think about is our own upbringing, which has huge impact on how we feel and how we relate to our children. we often 'inherit' negative feelings and behaviour from our family or origins. it is hard, but it may be a time we examine our own lives, our values, our behaviour and may be we find areas we need to make adjustments. my suggestion: CHANGE OURSELVES, as a way to change things around us, rather than asking people around us to change, and you may see amazing changes around you.
stay calm, stay in hong kong, stay supportive (financial, emotional), stay positive.
you have support.
love, ms ng
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btw i hope everyone has read the news of the twin girl who just jumped off the bridge while her twin sister was watching on.
the underlying reasons seems to have been that this 25y old (!!!) wanted to move out of the parents home
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Cookie09, I don't think that's a very considerate or helpful tangent for this particular thread. Perhaps you could remove your post?
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@Cookie09
I was not going to reply to your comments on my post. I wanted to point out to OP that there is a legal elemnt to this. Sadly, by commenting on something you clearly know nothing about, your response is dangerously misleading.
Yes, I know that 5yrs imprisonment is the adult penalty (indeed that is what I said, had you troubled to read it before shooting off)
The boy is NOT free of criminal liablity. There are a couple of lega concepts that apply but he can be tried as a juvenile. Your point about him not giving consent shows the depth of your ignoranace - the boy is the OFFENDER in this case. We don't normally ask offenders if they consent to anything. ALso, does the fact that 5% of kids have sex at an early age change anything? Does it make it alright? Clearly you and I have a different concept of protecting children.
Please do not confuse me with anyone who gives a *** about your opinion - but the record needs to be put right here, hence my reply.
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@honkyblues:
the answer is no, because the case sadly shows what could happen in an extreme case when people try to 'protect' their kids (especially daughters)
@duncan:
my point around consent lies in the concept that in order for the boy to be tried and convicted as a rapist (since I presume you refer to this), he needs to have the 'intention to commit the crime'. that intention itself is based on that he knows or is reckless about whether she consents or not. since the boy himself is a juvenile, i dont think one can build a case against the boy to claim he should have known that the girl can legally not consent because she is below 16y old.
I am happy to be proven wrong if you can give me some evidence, but from doing a search in the legal case database for hong kong, i cannot find a single instance where a male below 16y old was tried and convicted as an offender for having sex with a girl between 14-16y old.
happy to be proven wrong
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@duncan and cookie
i assume duncan's was saying the boy would be guilty of underaged sex and not rape? underaged sex itself is an offense isn't it?
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"the boy is the OFFENDER in this case"
Ok, now here, I think even OP must know that it takes 2 hands to clap. Which teenage boy, when given an opportunity for sex, would find it easy to say no? I mean, we hear of adult female teachers initiating sex with young teenage boys, hell, at least this kid is with someone his own age.
By reporting this boy to the cops, a boy who is the same age as OP's own wayward teen, he will then get put on the sex-offenders registry or whatever and his whole future should be screwed because her daughter chose to have sex with him?
*SMH*
Give me a break. Its not just a matter of blaming this boy, for all you know it could have been her daughter that instigated a sexual relationship, assuming, of course, that they are even having sex...
Amazing everyone here is willing throw this boy under the bus without teaching the girl that her actions have consequences for HER and not for others!
This is more than just "that should teach her" when really, reporting the boy is punishing the boy, not the girl, and it will make her even more resentful towards her parents. Not only for taking her boyfriend from her but also for being so keen to ruin his life along with hers!
OP is asking for help on how to bring her daughter back to her, not to multiply problems all around.
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I have just started to read this thread- am I missing something here? Have you spoken to the boys parents? Are they aware that your daughter is not planning to return home? Are they willing to let her continue living in their home (I'm assuming that she is living in the home of one of the boys parents?)I can't believe that the parents of a 14 year old are willing to enable a CHILD to leave their own home and help support her without any arrangements with her parents. I would be straight round to the home to discuss the situation with his parents.
You also need to find out exactly what she wishes to change in your household for her to return home and try to come to some sort of arrangement which suits you all. She surely can't believe that she can "find a job, pay her bills and go to school" at the age of 14!!! You say she is mature but this is a sign of great immaturity. You have parental responsibility for her and surely the boys parents are not willing to support her and take over that parental responsibility until she reaches the age of 16.
If speaking to the boys parents doesn't achieve anything then I would arrange a session with the school social worker in school time. Don't let her know- just have a teacher call her out of her class and have the social worker explain the position she is in in great detail. Unless she is suffering from any abuse at home or has an underlying mental condition then all I can see is that she is acting like a spoilt brat and you need to stop pussy footing around her. She cannot make these type of decisions at 14. You can't allow this situation to go on.
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sammy, read the thread again. the boy is from divorced parents and lives out with his girlfriend, not at the home of his parents
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So this 14 year old boy is living on his own in his own apartment? Who's paying the bills and who owns it? Must be getting monetary support from one of his parents at 14 years of age. So this means that there are now 2 children living without an adult parent/guardian. If you can't get this mess sorted out on your own I would be tempted to go to social services. Never mind the argument that" todays 14 year old is yesterdays 16 year old"- they are both underage and are too young to be allow to make decisions like this.
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Dear MsOnion,
I’m so sorry to hear your dilemma, and hope you have enough strength and courage to manage the situation,
I have been through to similar situation: I’m a single mum of 3 and full time worker… I had spend 3 years ago endless nights walking looking for her, going to police stations to notified authorities of the issue. Only until 1 ½ year the situation got better, and she finally gown up of it, this was very difficult since she was cutting herself as well and influencing her little sister on the same path.
First I would like to ask you do you know the family she is with? Have you spoken to them?
It’s very important to create a bridge of clear communication with the people that she staying at.
If you know them you should talk clearly with them and let them know that if they implement rules, duties and obligations on their side, she will start to think about it, this little person (your Kid) thinks that only in her home are rules but if you talk to the ppls she stays with she will realize that is the rule of the world, rights = to obligations, permissions have to be gained and not given for free, if this family is a good family with values they should help you, as well as you have to explain that is a big responsibility if something happen to your daughter (god forbidden) they will have a big part of responsibility.
In HK the legal age for sexual activities is 16, so she is not on the right age no matter what friends and tv say.
If she still tell you she will run again… to disappear don’t worry go ahead and bring her back with Police, and if she run away get her back again… she is telling you this because she know you may not act on it.
One more thing do not sponsor her with money or any financial way due she will think is ok to be away and still get money... you should let her know she may lose the school year. etc.
One more question do you know and trust your helper/ hubby (sorry about this) 100% do you think it may has happen something at home that she refuses to be part or repeat/ helper/ father/ family friends. Think of all that will help you out.
If you have the possibility to take some weeks off from work and you could stay longer at home and take some weeks off do so . Nothing is more important than family ( work is Just work)
wish you good luck, as well as recommend you to go to counseling yourself to be able to deal with it.
Remember you have 2 other kids that are in the copy paste living process, and you need to let them know that running away is not an option.
i really hope this can be solve soon... I feel your pain and your frustation.
be strong and dont you ever give up on her... keep trying.
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"you have to explain that is a big responsibility if something happen to your daughter (god forbidden) they will have a big part of responsibility."
I think thats a brilliant bit of advice.
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