Urgent L:egal Help

My 25-year-old niece was arrested yesterday for "soft theft" from a department store. Stolen items totaled $500+ in value. She has never had run-ins of any sort with the law prior to this. I am her only family in HK. Anger and hurt feelings aside, I need to focus on doing damage control on the legal front. I would really appreciate any advice offered, especially for the ff:


1) At the police station, she admitted to the theft and also signed the police report. But because she is not Chinese-literate, she wasn't 100% clear on what the police report said, and felt pushed to sign after the police quickly skimmed over the content of his report in broken English. How would this weigh in on the chances of reversing her admission?



2) The police station has ordered that she report to them one week later. What is this for, and what is the standard procedure from here on?


3) She is currently unemployed but worked in the finance field prior to being layed-off. Is it correct that most employers in the financial/accounting field as well as government departments screen prospective employees with criminal/background checks?


4) What is the likely penalty for first-time offenders such as herself? Is it limited to a fine or is criminal record inevitable? Are there less severe alternatives to having criminal record?



5) Where should I look to secure an appropriate lawyer for her? She is currently unemployed, so would it be advisable to have her look into the Legal Aid subsidy Scheme at the local Legal Department, or would their services be sub-par given that it is government subisidized?


Sorry for the mouthful. I am obviously in distress, so any guidance offered would be very much appreciated.

Oldhand, thanks a lot for your advice. I do have one question--isn't it correct that even if the shop decides to drop charges at this point, because the police have been notified, it would still head to court?

Sabi, thanks for answering. She is 25, and not only does she need to work here, but before being laid-off she worked in finance, which I suspect is big on screening people for criminal records (?). According to her, the C.I.D. seems to have made it clear that she will go to court after they officially charge her. Do you know for a fact that they can treat this like misdemeanor? I would think not since they would have to answer to the department store who reported the theft, right?

TC, thanks much for your wise words. I have tried calling up several lawyers but it seems most of them are interested in pleading not guilty simply because there is more money in it for them, i.e. dragged out court time. I just don't know how wise it would be to plead not guilty when she has already signed admission of guilt at the police station. This is why I was hoping to get some practical, non-pro advice on this forum, where answers are offered thru sheer kindness and not monetary incentive. Thanks again, and any other advice would still be very much appreciated

Hi Canaille. As a former detective in Hong Kong I think your immediate course of action should be to seek legal advice in the first instance. Speak to a lawyer as only a lawyer can advise you accurately.


Whilst its been a few years since I retired I doubt much will have changed since my day on the force. I hope I can be of some help.


Did your niece actually leave the shop or was she intercepted inside? This is actually an important point as a lawyer can argue she intended to pay for the item but was not given a chance to do so. If however she has passed the cashier and walked over the threshold she has some explaining to do.


I'm surprised your niece was not provided with an interpreter when she was interviewed. Moreover, is she certain she was given a verbal and written caution? Both at the time of arrest (verbal) and in writing when interviewed? This is basically being read her rights etc. If she has not been properly cautioned any lawyer worth their salt should gain leverage from this fact. If she has not been properly cautioned the police can be critised for improper conduct and failing to follow procedure. That said, the Magistrate will most likely only ignore the contents of the statement/admission and base his ruling on the facts. ie. if she walked out of the shop intending not to make payment etc.


It appears from your account she has been bailed and asked to report in a week. In normal circumstances, I ordinarily 'charged' a person as soon as I was satisfied there was sufficient evidence to do so. In your case this surprises me as shop theft is normally extremely easy to process and not that hard to prove. When your niece reports she should do so with a lawyer. They will best advise her of what action she then takes.


I expect when she next reports the police will formally charge her and change her bail conditions to report to the Magistrates court the following day. She will then do so where the charge will be read over to the court. She will be invited to enter into a plea (guilty or not gulity). Is she pleads not guilty or disuputes the facts the court will enter a not gulity plea and a date for trial will be set. Again go with a lawyer. (My advise would be not to rely on the court appointed lawyers. No offense to any who may be reading this.)


Unlike many parts of the world it is extremely difficult to for a HK employer to vet a candidate to ascetain if they have a previous conviction. That said, many do have 'sources'. Suffice to say, if asked your niece were convicted she would be committing an offense if she secures employed on the basis she claims no previous conviction.


As for sentencing, its hard to say. The Magistrate will consider many factors and may even ask for reports before passing sentence. If lucky (unlikely) she may be bound-over for a year. A first offendor with clear record is likely to receive a fine. Worse case scenario could be a suspended sentence and fine or even a custodial sentence (Unlikely if a first offendor.)


I genuinely hope the advise given above helps. I also hope my advise is accurate. If you only follow one piece of advise its this. GET A LAWYER, it may be her best option and a good lawyer will most certainly have a better chance of acting in her best interests.

Sorry about the typing errors above! If convicted a criminal record is inevitable. Good Luck!

Seriously flawed, Heartfelt thanks for such a lengthy and helpful response. Yes, she already exited the store when approached by an undercover store employee and asked if in fact she didn't pay for some items. As for reading rights, she insists the police never read her her rights, but in his report (handwritten in Chinese) which she signed, it stated that she was read her rights.


Can you please advise on these two areas: 1) I have been advised there is a third way out besides pleading guilty or not--a bind over. You mentioned that it is unlikely. Why do you feel so? Is it because of the dollar value that was stolen? She has a clean record, and also has had a long history of being medicated for depression. Unfortunately, she lost her job in the U.S. two years ago and has not been able to afford treatment since. I am thinking of asking her psychiatrists in the U.S. to write verification letters of her condition, and hopefully, help the lawyer build a case for bind over. My understanding is that ultimately, the party charging (i.e. police dept.) has to agree for it to work. as an ex-policeman, how often were bind overs approved, and what are the prerequisites? Also, is it correct that even with a bind over, Cert. of No Criminal Conviction would not indicate criminal record but still mention bind over? Thanks much, SF, and all other kind people who replied!

If she is going to work in finance (for example a job that requires registration with the SFC) she will be required to complete a delaration on Criminal convictions. They will then do a police check anyway. Every year people are charged by the SFC for hiding their convictions so dont lie.


Its not the end of the world and the SFC for example will look at each case seperatly. Yes if your Nick Leeson forget it but the main thing is to be honest with them.


She is guilty and by trying to say she's not will only upset the police, the court and will make them come down harder on her.


Finally as a solicitor once told me if you arrested just say " I wish to say nothing as I may inciminate myself" and then ask for a lawyer

and dont sign anything

This is what happened to me. I was arrested for driving on an Aust. licence last year and was charged with no licence and no insurance (I did have insurance papers to say I could legally drive the car, but Police still arrested me), so my husband had to pay HK1000.00 to bail me out of Kowloon station. The police did the same wrote out the offence in chinese in which I refused to sign. I had to report back 2 weeks later for a formal hearing where I was able to submit my statement, from here waited 6 weeks to receive summons to go to Magistrates court. I believed I was innocent on the charge of driving without insurance, but on the day in court decided it was best to say "Guilty" and hope for the best as I observed the person before me in court said "not Guilty" to his driving offence in which he was then advised by the magistrate to get legal advice and await to be summons to court. I pleaded guilty and asked for leanicy (excuse spell.) in which he said "its a first offence and he fined me and no record.

Hope this gives u idea of the processes.

If I remeber correctly to be bound over the party concerned must agree to the facts of the case. Basically admit they did it. The police can object to such action but in most cases would not. The shop will most likely insist on formal sentencing but then they would as shop theft is such a proplem. At the end of the day, it is down to the Magistrate to rule after considering all the facts and circumstances.


Sorry to hear your niece is suffering depression and lost her job. These are very good mitigating circumstances and one the court would take into consideration. I would be extremely surpised if the Magistrate did not adjourn and ask for reports. Your niece's medical reports from the USA would be of use. Your USA doctor would have to provide proof as to their authenticity and I would expect a HKG doctor would also be requested to comment based on the contents of the reports. Ultimately, this is why your lawyer is so important. Invest wisely. If Bound Over I think she will have no record if she completes the period bound over (12 months I recall) without any further 'issues' with the courts.

Oops! Used my wife's log in again. sincerely_flawed made the above reply.

Derbyram, bwitched32, and sincerely_flawed, HUGE thanks for taking the time! Legal advice is on the way, but in the meantime, I am just worried there's not much to do but plead guilty since she already signed something at the police station, even though the cops obviously took advantage/ripped off of her language problem. Thanks mucho!

I am bringing up this question as my brother has a similar problem to solve. He was innocent but nevertheless convicted. We were told by our lawyer that the Magistrates in Hong Kong are pressured to fill the conviction quota and do not follow the "beyond reasonable doubt" principal. So, if you are charged and you have limited resource or energy, better to plead guilty because you would be convicted anyway. It's a very unfair system and destroys not only career but faith, family, relationships and much more.


Anyway, my brother is very close to being offered a job by bank in Hong Kong. How difficult or easy is it for an employer to obtain the criminal record? Does it require my brother's authorisation for obtaining the record? Thanks!

Hi canaille, what happened at the end?

This posting is over 5.5 years old. The poster probably isn't even in HK.

Why the sudden interest?

because my brother is in a similar situation and he has a family to feed...