Questions for all male cheaters...

Posted by sleeplessintown 21 yrs ago

So, most men cheat in hk... I get it. My boyfriend is no different. He cheated on me and we broke up, thinking I would never wanna even speak to him again. 10 months later, after enough begging and crying from him, I took him back. Believe it or not, I'm much happier than before as he treats me better and sweeter than ever.

The only problem is, I seem to be happy ONLY when I'm with him. I mean, his job requires him to travel a lot and when he's away I feel very very uneasy. I try not to act insecured but it's hard not to. As much as I wanna believe he "has changed" and "has been faithful to me since", I spend many sleepless nights wondering if he's been a good boy or not.

So, I really wanna understand how "cheaters" mind work, and here are my questions...

1)do you honestly think you can respect and be faithful to the woman who "forgave you for cheating" once? (or do you deep down think that maybe she will forgive you again even if you cheat again?)

2)how do you cope with all those temptations around the city? (can a cheater really put a stop in acting, or will he just become smarter next time in order not to get caught again?)

3)what are the signs I should watch out for, in order to tell whether he can be trusted again or not? (signs for cheating again, and signs for being faithful and really trying?)

Just to give you a bit of our background, we love each other very very much before and now. He cheated on me purely for physical pleasure and nothing more (not that there is a better way to be cheated as cheating is cheating, but it was just a short-term/ONS sort rather than two-timing).

Any input will be appreciated, especially from those who have been in my bf's shoes before.

kimmy 21 yrs ago

sleeplessintown, i had a similar experience many years ago... when i took him back, things seemed to go ok but i became so paranoid every time he went on biz trips... and it drove me nuts. I ended things with him eventually coz i just couldnt trust him anymore no matter how hard i (or he) tried... but there were also other reasons which weren't relevant to his past cheating. I'm just sharing my experience with you, i know what you're going through now. Looking forward to some *constructive* feedback from guys.

bombastic 21 yrs ago

I have been following the cheating threads for a while and it would appear that the men seem to want to have it all and are actually getting away with it.

So what options do we women have?

1. The old adage: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. As a married woman, I have had equal opportunity to cheat but have declined. It's almost like complaining about other motorists running a red light when you're doing it yourself.

2. If you choose to remain in the relationship and not cheat as well, get a LIFE of your own which does not include your potentially cheating partner. By this I mean, achieve something which you enjoy which gives you a high, makes you proud of yourself, allows you to respect yourself, so that the scum of your partner will respect you in return.

As far as the relationship goes, do what the men do and return to it for friendship, companionship, support (of sorts), as a stress relief, familiarity, whatever you seek from a relationship apart from faithfulness. Sex then becomes a celebration of that thing which keeps the relationship together.

3. Whatever you do, don't stay in the relationship because you NEED to have a man in your life and HAVE to be dependent on one.

We don't need to have the men dictate the rules of the game. We can set our own rules for our life and meet them halfway when we need them to provide whatever it is at that moment, eg someone to scratch your back when it itches, or make your tea in the morning.

cyan 21 yrs ago

After reading all this don't forget that that are a lot of cheaters here.

They will even tell you cheating is ok in a relationship. And that all men do it.

There's also a lot of cheated women, so they will tell you all men cheat, once a cheater always a cheater.

To add and no offence to anyone in particular, there's usually many negative responses over here.

There's no rule and no equal behave to men and each relationship is different.

If he has been 10 months after you. Well he love's you. I am not so sure he will be thinking on risking loosing you again over a ONS.

You have to evaluate him and trust him until in any way he shows some kind of signs that he might eventually be cheating. (Eventually like in any relationship)

It is very possible he learned his lesson and that he wont cheat on you again.

Just live your relationship, work it to make it strong, as you would do if nothing had happened. Don't let miss trust (without a reason) interfere.

You took him back, yes, but he made his choice. He wants you and he knows if he will ever do it again he will loose you forever, you wont take him back a second time. It's not the same as if you had just forgiven him, you actually left him, so he knows.

As long as you two keep a loving and sexual active relationship you should be good.

babeebluedd 21 yrs ago

Sleepless, like you, I have been cheated on as well. And, like you, I took him back after all the tears and begging. I am: over confident. He is: cheater in nature. It didn't last...

I have realized one thing from my experience. If he is able to cheat on me, he is not in love with me. Being in love with someone is completely different from loving a person. Relationship loses its magic when two people fall out of love. Do you want to stay in a dead relationship?

babeebluedd 21 yrs ago

Ivan, that's an excuse. I believe there is a big difference between homosapiens and other animals, SHAME.

Cheaters are shameless, therefore they are no different from animals.

christiannamc 21 yrs ago

Sometimes it is not the difference between woman and man but the difference between human beings. We can't live without lying. The key is the objective of the cheating. He just doesn't want to hurt you so he chooses to lie to you. If you give him more freedom and more trustment, he will cheat you less. And the most important thing is to talk to each other as often as possible. Let him know your thoughts and give him the range of lying.

cyan 21 yrs ago

Well why on earth do men need to cheat to relieve their natural biological urge if they have a wife/partner/gf?

They do it (specially in hk) because they WANT and lack personality, and then they like to spread the idea that all guys do it. It's normal, it has to be... Because they are loosers.

And they are loosers because they don't know what it is like to feel so full and satisfied sexualy and emmotionally by their own wifes/partners.

----------------------------

Sleeplessintown - IT IS POSSIBLE HE DID IT BEFORE and that he is being honest and that he'll never do it again. Everybody make mistakes.

You both learned from it and are stronger now. If you decided to take him back then forget about that. If you need reassurance from him, tell him how do you feel when he's out of town. He can help you when he's out. Calling you several times a day, share his days out with you on a natural way (not like reporting) call you in the morning, evening, etc. After some time you wont be even thinking about all this anymore.

Caliman 21 yrs ago

We are going off into never-never land. I use to cheat on girlfriends as a routine without feeling guilty for the most part. I'll admit that I was not consistently honest with them. I think that people need to ride the surf and I as single man I loved it. My body, my ego and I in general ate it up when I received such a positive response from nice (looking women) and some do-ables there in between. I was somewhat honest with them from the beggining that I was not interested in getting into drama or a serious relationship. While I'd admit that a few people and I was hurt strolling down the line, I feel that you need to lay in all on the line and be straight-up honest. For Sleepless, maturity makes the man; they can change if they TRULY realize that that they have something one-of-a-kind w/out going astray. One more thing: If there are any more than slight breaks in your normal routine than I as a man think that there is more reason to suspect. Good luck!

Caliman 21 yrs ago

Jester quote is fantastic. I only can take so much of this too. You kick butt jester...

christiannamc 21 yrs ago

QUITE AGREE WITH JESTER! CHEATERS WILL DO MORE TO AVOID BEING CAUGHT, AND THE MORE THEY CHEAT, THE BETTER THEY WILL ACHEIVE!

CCCMN 21 yrs ago

I agree that Science tells us that male physiology is similar to animals in that they have strong biological urges to have multiple partners..

However, what's the key difference between humans & animals??

FREE WILL & reactive intelligence.

Sure men may suffer from the urge for multiple partners more so than women, but humans have sufficiently developed brains to CHOOSE not to shag around....

Reactive intelligence is about the "pot on the stove" concept. We learn & develop our knowledge based on previous experience. So, if a cheater encounters negative consequences because of their cheating (or see those around them suffering because of cheating), then as intelligent beings, they would be less likely to cheat.

Sleepless in town - you made a decision to forgive him & take him back. You should try to do this wholeheartedly. Otherwise you will just continue to drive yourself crazy! If you think you made a mistake - that's a different issue. If you don't go for it with all the optimisim & hope with which you started the first time - this relationship probably won't work.

(btw - being open & optimistic doesn't mean being stupid. If you genuinely think he's cheating again & you're not just being neurotic - cut your losses & get out).

aussieinhk 21 yrs ago

Go~Cat sounds as if he has serious problems debating a subject. To TOP, I have never cheated on a partner, but I have many friends, male and female, in HK, that I know for a fact think nothing of cheating at the first opportunity. On the other hand, I have many friends, again, of both sexes, that I know would never do this.

Someone commented that birds of a feather flock together, just because someone does something that I personally don't agree to, does not mean I cannot be friends with them.

Take religion as an example...I don't subscribe to any religion, but have many friends who are strongly relighious. At the end of the day, you CAN choose your friends.

To TOP, I do think that anyone who has cheated once, can cheat again. The way I look at it, it's your decision to either forgive, but not forget, and move on, or not. It is up to you. That being said, no relationship can survive without trust and it sounds as if you do not trust your partner. Not a good way to live in a relationship...

cyan 21 yrs ago

So many cheaters around and none able to answer question number 3?

Are you guys so good at keeping it a secret or are your wives just so tired of you they prefer you to cheat and pretend not to know?

cyan 21 yrs ago

---------------

"As a man, I agree with Ivan (and science backs us up), most men naturally have strong urges to mate with as many women as they can. I don't see how one can have a discussion about that."

----------------

Then look for a wife willing to have an open marriage!

Life 21 yrs ago

If he loves you he may still cheat on you. If he is “in love” with you .. then he can not imagine ever doing anything that would hurt you in anyway. His happiness will be dependent on yours. The fact that he chased you for 10 months, indicates he realized what a HUGE mistake he made. I say give him another chance.

GoCat: the Cheater show here would be on top of the ratings. That is actually a good idea, but how many people would want to really know, plus the threat of public embarrassment? High society expats who moan on the forums would completely fade into the shadows before the public humiliation.

sleeplessintown 21 yrs ago

Wow, I'm overwhelmed with responds... Thank you all (sorry but not possible to list each one of your handles!).

As a matter of fact, I have read "are there no loyal men" before I even put a post. ...and now most of you seem to think that a cheater will be a better cheater after being taken back, I get it too.

I refused to become a jealousy gf who calls him 10 times a day just to check on him. I refuse to be someone who needs to follow him on his biz trip just to make sure he sleeps alone. If one were like that in a relationship, it would not work out so it would be better to go separate way completely rather than staying in an unhealthy relationship just because we love each other. I know that already...

How I wish I could just "forget" all that, but it's harder to live without thinking about it than to say "I go about my own things so I don't have time to think about it much". I have to say I think less now than before without much efforts, but it's still there in my head and it's just hard not to think. Maybe time will heal the wound and hopefully I'll have a night away from him feeling completely trusting him as years go by, but not now. At least I'm not there yet.

So, what do I do now? Is our relationship already doomed? I mean, does our relationship still have a chance to last if I mantain my sanity AND I trust him, or what I do doesn't matter because ultermatly men all cheat and cheat again? I know he knows I will leave him if he cheats again (because I told him so), but does he really take it serious, I don't know, as I have taken him back once. How can I make him understand... I mean, really understand in his head that I will never take him back for the 2nd time?

ctdr 21 yrs ago

Whoa....saucer of milk girls and boys.

For what it is worth Sleepless - if you have a problem with the possibility that he cheats again, then end it now. It is always going to be a problem for you, so just cut your losses, have a little weep and get on with life - before you get your heart broken again.

Go Cat, Ivan and the boys who are busy ripping each other to shreds...not all men cheat - some of them lie. They are not all scoring like they say they are. Cocksmanship, oneupmanship and bullsh*tting each other left right and centre is just about as bad as cheating though.....either way they are a bunch of losers and don't deserve the good women that they have. Pity that the sisters go back for a second round of heartbreak and feel sorry for the bastard on top of it. I would not give a cheater a second chance that is for sure. My partner had better not get caught if he is cheating, or his cajones will be fishfood.

Go Cat you are good person - think I know you from a previous life.

christiannamc 21 yrs ago

Hey, sleeplessintown, I wonder how was your life going on during that 10 months without him? And do you know how is his? It's realy a long time, and during 10 months many things happened. Did you always think of him or did you really want him back? If him chased you for 9 months (not 10 months) then he gave it up, how was your feelings then? Did he tell you the reason why he turned back? Oh......so many things I want to learn about it. Maybe this will suffer you again but once you learn the truth and what you really need, you can make the decition without or with less regret.

BAGUETTE 21 yrs ago

HI , TO ALL

I do suggest that, if men cheat once . sure he will do the same mistake again, can be good just for a while , but when temptation come, u cant control again,

if u love him , just pretend u dont know , or else just walk away and never turn your head back agin

i am just sticking my feet in this sh*ttt ...trying to pull it out hardily..

Life 21 yrs ago

If she left him, not just threatened, and stuck it out for 10 months, then he knows the next time, she will leave for good. 10 months is almost a YEAR!

Besides, why can't a person commit an offense, repent and actually follow through?

Life 21 yrs ago

Gocat: how would that work though. In the states they show everyones faces and it is hard to believe they all consent to be aired. Only once have a seen a face distorted. So in reality they can air what they want to?

christiannamc 21 yrs ago

To sabi,

How do I give you this impression, both male and female? I just say something about cheating and a little curious about the details.

Jane 21 yrs ago

Many emotional affairs are a byproduct of increasingly intense and collegial workplace atmospheres. According to Bonnie Eaker Weil, PhD, author of Adultery: The Forgivable Sin: Healing the Inherited Patterns of Betrayal in Your Family (Birch Lane, 1993), over half of work friendships become something more.

What's So Wrong?

Hey, we're not made of wood -- what's wrong with a crush? "I had a flirtation with a guy at the restaurant," says Gail, 30, a Boston bartender. "But it was part of the work environment, and No Touching was clearly the rule. Outside of work I didn't give him a second thought -- but the extra dose of feeling attractive actually helped my relationship with my boyfriend."

But No Touching doesn't always mean Harmless Flirting. "I had a close relationship with a married man: late-night calls, meaningful lunches, intense sharing," says Liza, 39, a social worker in Philadelphia. "A male friend said, 'If you're not having sex, there's nothing wrong with it.'"

Actually, say experts, there's plenty wrong.

"It doesn't matter that 'it could be worse,'" says Vaughan. "There's deception going on." That's the risk of a seemingly harmless affair: The more you rationalize that it's okay, the more it escalates, and the more you're compelled to hide. "You wind up depending on the other person more for daily peaks and perks, and that sucks the love away from you and your partner."

What's toxic about an emotional affair is exactly what distinguishes it from a fleeting, fun crush: secrecy. "The number one way to know if you're having an emotional affair is if you're hiding it from your partner," says Vaughan.

"When you 'end up' out to dinner sitting kitty-corner with that guy from work that you can't get out of your head, that's a date," Lana, 29, a Toronto attorney, says (from experience). "Saying you have a boyfriend doesn't count -- all he'll take from that is, 'Then why is she out with me?' You both know the illicitness makes it all the more exciting and tempting. And you know when you cross the line because it's that thing you'd never tell your boyfriend, that thing that would freak you out if you found out he did it."

Fess Up

If you're on the slippery slope between fidelity and an emotional affair, it is possible -- and essential -- to move to firmer ground. "When I felt most tempted, I forced myself to wait, and the wild love feeling actually went away by itself," says Sandra. The friendship that outlasted the lust is now out in the open with her boyfriend.

If you have crossed the line and are engaged in a full-fledged emotional affair, your relationship still has a fighting chance. According to Peggy Vaughan, 70 percent of couples seeking help after an infidelity do stay together -- if they sincerely want to.

"Surviving infidelity is not about what happened and why," says Vaughan. "It's about how you respond to it together. You must decide: Are we going to let this destroy us, or make us stronger?"

Positive steps you can take:

1. Take responsibility. "You didn't screw up because of something he did; you screwed up because you screwed up," says Sharyn Wolf, author of How to Stay Lovers for Life. Address overarching relationship issues separately, later.

2. Offer a sense of security. "Give him what he needs to feel safe," says Wolf. If he wants you to cut off contact with the interloper, or come straight home from work for now, you must say yes.

3. Be patient. He may be cool one day, furious the next. "The perpetrator has to become the healer," says Vaughan.

The temptation to stray may be only a matter of distraction by work or children, and inattention to each other. When you confront the issue, "The honesty and commitment you once just assumed were there are now affirmed openly," says Vaughan. It's a painful -- but worthwhile -- process, she says: "Sometimes you don't realize what you have till you almost lose it."

full article at: http://women.msn.com/106091.armx?GT1=6686

I thought some stuff might be related.

Goodboy 21 yrs ago

As a male I can't respond as this is a women's site.......

But seriously, have been unfaithful many times. Why ? Because it keeps us together. Everything else "in the house" is in pefect order, thank you, for both of us.

I get vexed when I see the unbalanced and disturbing comments from the female side on this issue. Clearly alot of people have real baggage in their heads, mainly it seems stemming from materialism and / or the need to exert influence or control over others.

That is no suitable background scene for a LTR.

The secret is to relax and communicate openly but delicately / sensibly in exchanging ideas of what you would like things to be.

lemaitre 21 yrs ago

I think Go Kat has a definite bowel movement problem. In fact, some of the postings I was pretty much convinced that he is a she trying to pose as a oddball man.

To talk about the real issue here, men are genetically programmed to be polygamous. If not, why are our biological clocks at least twice as long as woman's? Case in point, the recently deceased actor who played "Scotty" on Star Trek had his last child when he was 80 years old. (Don't know of any 80 year-old woman who has pulled that off, or a man who would give her chance to try for that matter)

Men are in a constant moral vs. biological struggle. Sometimes the social norms prevail, sometimes the instincts do. Men are more physically driven when it comes to partners (hence, the popularity of Playboy magazine) while women are more emotionally driven (hence, the popularity of romance novels). Along these lines, men are most jealous if there is physical contact with another man, the woman is more jealous if there is emotional betrayal.

Other thoughts: men tend to fall in love quicker than women and are usually slower to fall out of love. (No surrpise this man chased her for 10 months to get her back.) If he loves you he will stay with you. He may occasionally slip, but love will keep him coming back to you.

The age old wisdom says "If a woman wants to be happy with a man she must love him a little and understand him a lot." (The second half of the addage says "If a man wants to be happy with a woman he must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.")

balzac 21 yrs ago

cheating, cheating , cheating...Jerry Springer should come to Hong Kong.

ctdr 21 yrs ago

Lemaitre...What's wrong with Go Kat being faithful to one person. Oddball??? He's a he..we can tell...Geez we need more of them. Don't get me wrong here - I am not into man-bashing....

Yes, maybe Scotty sired offspring at 80 but the bloody fool didn't even live long even to see it cut it's first molar - so much for fatherhood. I agree that men for some bizarre reason are inclined to spread the seed (to 80 and beyond!). Damn fools don't know when it's time to stop.

The reason women don't breed to 80 is pure biology, dear - they don't produce the eggs any more - thank God! Nature and evolution got that bit right at least.

ctdr 21 yrs ago

SusieKC...Go Cat....AMEN!!

Half these stupid questions answer themselves. The girls (normally)know what they should do, but spend 100 days and 300 threads going on about it. What are they hoping to hear. If my partner cheated, I'd dump him, period. No debate. He knows that which is exactly why he stays on the level too - besides that fact that he does not feel the need to spread his genes around biologically or emotionallly.

What are these girls hoping for...some one to say "stick around for as long as HE likes and get your a** kicked whenever HE feels like screwing around...." !?!

If he doesn't respect you , never mind love you enough to call it a day because biologically he is inclined to sow seed, then cut and run. I AGREE with Go Kat and Susie. Go Kat is not abnormal - he may be one of the few normal, honorable men around.

kimmy 21 yrs ago

I really didn't want to say this but Stupid - please don't bother posting such childish replies. It's getting a bit annoying now.

bombastic 21 yrs ago

To be more accurate, it should be "why men and women cheat".

cyan 21 yrs ago

What's frustrating above all around here, not only in these thread, is the big amount of negative advice or opinions. And then when someone having a good experience and trying to share it and tell people that not all marriages fail, not all men cheat, there are still good guys, honest and with values, at least a lot of people just get offended, upset and just wants to prove these successful cases are rare exceptions.

Thanks Go Cat and Susie and ctdr to show there's sill good people and good marriages.

And finally, even if the most credible TV program would say that 99 in 100 marriages have cheaters, well even tho, it would not make it "normal" and good thing as many claim here. And even then I would like to read about that one positive case.

And when people claim... "so many threads about cheating" every guy cheats bla, bla, bla...

You are not expecting a happy married person to come here and post "Help, don't know what to to, confused, I have a happy marriage, a perfect husband, and a great sexual life" doesn't make much sense right?

lemaitre 21 yrs ago

So Bali... should men cheat?

cyan 21 yrs ago

If all these cheaters really, really believed cheating was that much of a "normal behave" I believe they wouldn't be here post after post trying to prove no one but themselves that it's a normal behave because every men doing it.

For some reason they get so annoyed when confronted with honest guys.

And Go Cat, you sound like my husband!

And whenever I try to say here there's nothing compared to the satisfaction of having such a great sexual life with your partner that you don't feel any need or desire from another person, or that the level of confidence you achieve with your partner will always give you better sex then with a whore or a short term affair.

kenzah 21 yrs ago

There could be some men are honest but the majority. At least 85% of men have ever cheated on their girlfriends or wives.

ctdr 21 yrs ago

Jif summed it up really...it is because they can - lots of desperate women in this town with open arms and legs and...never mind!AND they get away with it.

Those being cheated on get a thread going here instead of booting his cute little a** clean out - forever. If he doesn't get taken back even after kicking and whining for 10 months, he and his stud-buddies will soon get the message alright.

Got to show that you mean business.Sadly either the inertia of protracted custom or fear of being alone seems to keep the girls trapped in this cycle.

It may take a generation or two, but hell we have to start somewhere. I am not saying that there are no exceptions to this rule, but the stats aren't good that he will never do it again.

Do women cheat? - a whole other thread that, maybe they do maybe they don't ...maybe they don't need to brag about it in pubs, so the figures aren't known. If I cheated I would expect that my a** got kicked out as well - fair's fair. sure we pass slutty comments about T. Cruise and Senor Banderas - probably would never act on it though if they were handed to us on a platter - reality kicks in.

Go Kat - you keep being decent - you're an endangered species and one with balls. Good for you.

Chloroquine99 21 yrs ago

A lot of people seem to be saying "If someone cheats, then just boot them out, they are not worthy of you and all of mankind will soon get the message"

A lot of people do cheat at some stage in their lives. It may not been good or ideal, but it happens.

Simplistic advice like "punish the bastard and throw him out" ignores the impact on the spouse doing the punishing. And let's face it, maybe of marriages that last, maybe half or a third or whatever still have a partner that cheats at some stage, yet the marriage is able to survive.

christiannamc 21 yrs ago

Oh, Bos, if I met you earlier!

ctdr 21 yrs ago

Bos, don't confuse personality with wallet - that's what they want - you're an idiot.

Hold us back - we're testing our resistance here...

MerchantFarang 21 yrs ago

I was surprised that no one has raised the very real risk of the transmission of STDs through a cheating spouse, particularly if that spouse regularly travels through SEA and greater China.

In Asia, a businessman is most likely to cheat with one or more of the following four types of women: prostitutes, party girls, colleagues/clients and MILFs. While colleagues and MILFs do not present an extraordinary STD transmission profile, prostitutes and party girls do.

Prostitutes are second only to intravenous drug users in terms of their HIV transmission rates and are often either addicts themselves or the primary wage earners for boyfriends/husbands who have the monkey on their backs. The low-cost, transactional nature of a prostitute is the surest bet for the cheater who cheats "purely for physical pleasure and nothing more" [your words].

Party girls (local women who are attracted to high-wage earning expats and date them almost exlusively) often hang out in the very same haunts trolled by local/migrant prostitutes. And since their "clientele" are the same, and they tend to parallel stream prospective boyfriends in the hope that one will stick, and they are more apt to be willing to not use a condom (to show trust and commitment), the risk of STDs is also high.

A grown, educated man working in Asia quickly becomes aware of variety of opportunities for quick sexual relief, as well as the health risks associated with it, from a variety of sources -- signs in massage parlors urging condom use to avoid HIV, water cooler talk and anecdotes, maybe some internet reading to satisfy a latent curiosity, whatever). Unless he is a complete nitwit, your boyfriend would surely have been aware of the risks his activities posed to you. That he went ahead and exposed you to these risks -- however calculated -- raises disturbing questions about his fundamental philosophical and ethical framework.

It was not clear to me in your original posting how you uncovered your boyfriend's infidelity, but I'd caution that his "better and sweeter" treatment of you might simply be a way to shore up that side of your relationship that led to your initial discovery. No one likes to lose something they have in hand until they have fully depreciated it themselves, most notably for Type A personalities for whom a rejection of a relationship is interpreted as a rejection of self.

The fact that you are not yet married means that, apart from the emotional attachment your cheating (past-tense) boyfriend has for you, there really are very low switching costs if he cheats again and you catch him. Presumably you don't have claim to any marital community property? And you've already advertised yourself as the forgiving type, so consider the "risk of losing you" not much of a disincentive to cheating.

Your safest bet going forward, provided you stay in this relationship, is to wear a condom and regularly get you and your boyfriend tested for HIV and other STDs. Early detection of HIV and proper care can significantly extend one's life.

BAGUETTE 21 yrs ago

hi , ALL

If a guy unfaithful ones , he will unfaithful all his life , never be trusted. .he will just lie on u smarter next time on and on. my b/f has walk away fr me coz of the third party , but he need to come back to my house to pick up all his mail all the time. everytimes whe he left he will said , i need to go back to CHINA immediately , many clients waiting for me there,, so i just call his BITCH hand phone later night , he is the one who answering it . HAHAH , so funny , why he still need to lie , i never ask him to stay here , he can go anytime he want ..THAT IS CALL man....

Soutie 21 yrs ago

Having read all of the above posts there appear to be quite a few women scorn & perhaps, as is to be expected, their experience has "coloured" their responses. As an unmarried, unattached male I may be able to provide an alternative opinion in answering your questions :

1. Depends on his character - you know him best & be honest with yourself. It may have been a one off error of judgement & you found out because he wasn't experienced enough at "playing away"....only you can answer this one way or the other. If it doesn't work & he's at it again you'll be in for more heartache but you're "gut" feeling was right but if he's really into you & is scared you'll offload him he could stay on the straight & narrow & it could be something good!

2. Coping with temptation is also a character thing, some people succumb others don't but there can be no excuses. Its also a good point that since you're not married he may consider he's still on the "Test Drive". You may think his "actions & intent show he's formed the contract" but he may think that until he's signed on the dotted line he can't be bound to the terms & conditions.

3. There really is no conclusive answer to this one - you could check everything [mail, email, bank accounts, credit cards etc] but if he has a copy of the "Philanderer's Handbook" [reference from Desperate Housewives] or is an experienced cheater you probably won't find anything. If he's not such actions may be resented as a lack of trust & invasion of privacy which could cause as many problems as questions answered.

In my, albeit much more limited experience than other posters, experience some guys cheat & others don't & some are better at covering their trail than others. I also think something of a regional culture issue exists in that some women, but not all, particularly from the poorer countries around [i.e. Thailand, Philippines, China etc] are quite happy to play with men who are affluent & appear wealthy to support their lives. The Guys get an ego boost [come on we all know a total a**hole who is loaded] & the girls get dollars!

As you point out the experienced Philanderer does not make simple mistakes - everything is a cash deal with no paper or electronic records, they don't give out their cellphone no. and prefer to use the business/company email [or may have another cellphone kept at work & the bills are sent to the work address. This kind of guy also won't have a 3G cellphone so he can't be asked to prove where he is or what he's doing.

But having said all of the above its primarily down to your judgement of your man's chracter - you may have nothing to worry about.

PS - To the poster who talked about the Golf Trip, I once went on a Golf Weekend to China with some married work colleagues & when we arrived to catch the bus to Lo Wu I was the only one who'd brought his clubs - no, they didn't hire a set in China either!!

sunwaterandsky 21 yrs ago

Men cheat and women cheat and its all about how you deal with it. Men are not as good at hiding their infidelities and tend to get caught earlier. The women I know that cheat, have never been caught. Why? because society always seems to blame the women so they have to protect themselves more. It is just "natural" for a man to cheat, so we can't blame him. Well, it seems that it is natural for some women too.

And what about that person who is having sex with someone they know is attached? What is their motivation? Are they hoping that they will convince them to leave their partner, or are they really just looking for sex without relationship?

So many questions and not enough time.

britpat 21 yrs ago

Its quite simple really, 'once a cheater, always a cheater'. There needs to be no more debate on the topic. If He loved her, he would keep it tucked away from others. He simply doesn't love her ENOUGH not to want to throw it around.

lulu 21 yrs ago

Most cheat anyway, the point is how well they covered and how you can take it. If you "make beleieve" he loves you, that is fine. If you wanna dig things out, there is always something you could find suspicious behaviour from him, if you like to think bad, the worst could come out. So it is really up to you.

If i let my boyfriend cheat for that while, may be we will still stay happily together, but i am fed up, so i decide to end that. If i dun say anything, we will be still together cos he never want to let me know he was cheating.

sunwaterandsky 21 yrs ago

I think that linking cheating to how much he loves you is naive and not necessarily true. People cheat for many reasons even when they love their partners dearly.

lulu 21 yrs ago

i know many guys cheat, as i know a lot of guys have girfriend stil lwant to sleep with me. Personally i will not cheat if i am in a relationship.

I feel sorry for those so called "girlfriends" and their boyfriends already running around looking for other women, i prefer to be single rather than have a "often cheated" boyfriends.

Shanghaimagic 21 yrs ago

This whole cheating issue is messed up guys(and girls)!!!!Not everyone cheats, but many people have at least once in their lives. As well, many people have cheated multiple times in several different relationships. This does not mean that they will always cheat, not does it mean that they they will ever stop. The point is, people cheat. People cheat for many different reasons, and not all of them we like to hear about. Most often, it's not cause the new guy or girl is better looking, or smarter, or sexier, or younger, or any of those reasons. It's most often because something that is vitally necessary in a relationship is missing. For different people that is something different. As well, to go with that is how each couple chooses to deal with it. For some people, they stay for many years, even though they know their partner is straying. Some people walk away and never look back. Some people never trust again, some people never stray again. Get with it! None of this crap up here is gonna help you out. No one can tell you how your partner and you should solve your own problems. This is something you guys gotta work out for yourselves. Sit down with him. Tell him you feel nervous when he travels. Maybe he can take you with him sometimes. If he loves you, and you he, you guys can try to overcome this betrayal in the past together. But you have to be honest with him about how you're feeling. Building trust is never easy, and it is a lot harder to do after something like this, but it can be done. Maybe you can seek a relationship councillor instead of all these broken hearted and misinformed women on here. Good luck!!!

tinareed 21 yrs ago

Just an observation Go Cat. You are a little to sanctimonious - are you sure your wife/gf/bf is so faithful to YOU?

edgy 20 yrs ago

"men are as faithfull as thier options"

well this is not alwase true it is entirely posible for a man to stay commited I should know I live in the body of one./lol

in order to stay commited to one girl there has to be a reason that overrides sexual desire, when the time comes ..so why did he cheat ? what did he do to change? why is he in the relationship in the first place? there is just one problem with trying to answer these questions though, ...you can only get the answers from him ..and he may not understand himself enough to give you an honest answer .. wich leaves you right where your are now exept with more wasted time and demonstrated mistrust ....there is one way you can understand him better though and find the answer your looking for without him even knowing your worried. ............. curious?.........know your self...take some time to understand yourself and your intentions ,reflect or meditate on why your in the relationship ? what do you get from it ? what do you give in order to get it? are you atracted to him or in love with him? why? if you think its love is the love real or are you just trying to escape loneliness? in other words why do you love him ?meditate on these questions and have the courage to be honest with you self

youll find the best answere ...no one else can give it to you , we all live differant lives and have differant expieriences ( reality's) so our truths can never be yours ...you just have to be willing to do the work and find yours ..I mean do you realy think someones easy solution typed up in minuets can solve a difficult problem that took months to mature to this point?....think about it...

best wishes ( sorry if this is to little to late but in any case I think you can learn from reflection on the situation )

Edgy

MESMERIC77 20 yrs ago

well once a cheater is more or less always the same.women have intutions & is often true if you really feel uneasy & insecured than im sure something is wrong.but its always better that you act like a friend to him & dig hard to get how he actually feels after getting back.always make a man belive that you are the same as him if hez upto something fishy ,you would go ahead

you wont give a damm.they try to cheat when they are confident that his women wont walk out shez a dumb fool hopelessly romantic & wont ever leave him,just make him feel you can leave him let him feel insecured aswell.

PerfectingLoneliness 20 yrs ago

On Enhancing Relationships

TRUST

Trust is a very important factor for all

relationships. When trust is broken, it is the end of

the relationship. Lack of trust leads to suspicion,

suspicion generates anger, anger causes enmity and

enmity may result in separation.

A telephone operator told me that one day she received

a phone call. She answered, "Public Utilities Board."

There was silence. She repeated, "PUB." There was

still no answer. When she was going to cut off the

line, she Heard a lady's voice, "Oh, so this is

PUB.Sorry, I got the number from my Husband's pocket

but I do not know whose number it is."

Without mutual trust, just imagine what will happen to

the couple if the telephone operator answered with

just "hello" instead of "PUB".

NO POINTING FINGERS

A man asked his father-in-law, "Many people praised

you for a successful marriage. Could you please share

with me your secret?" The father-in-law answered in a

smile, "Never criticize your wife for her shortcomings

or when she does something wrong. Always bear in mind

that because of her shortcomings and weaknesses, she

could not find a better husband than you."

We all look forward to being loved and respected. Many

people are afraid of losing face. Generally, when a

person makes a mistake, he would look around to find a

scapegoat to point the finger at. This is the start of

a war. We should always remember that when we point

one finger at a person, the other four fingers are

pointing at ourselves.

If we forgive the others, others will ignore our

mistake too.

CREATING PERFECT RELATIONSHIPS?

A person visited the government matchmaker for

marriage, SDU, and requested "I am looking for a

spouse. Please help me to find a suitable one." The

SDU officer said, "Your requirements, please." "Oh,

good looking, polite, humorous , sporty,

knowledgeable, good in singing and dancing. Willing

to accompany me the whole day at home during my

leisure hour, if I don't go out. Telling me

interesting stories when I need companion for

conversation and be silent when I want to rest." The

officer listened carefully and replied, "I understand

you need television."

There is a saying that a perfect match can only be

found between a blind wife and a deaf husband ,because

the blind wife cannot see the faults of the husband

and the deaf husband cannot hear the nagging of the

wife. Many couples are blind and deaf at the courting

stage and dream of perpetual perfect relationship.

Unfortunately, when the excitement of love wears off,

they wake up and discover that marriage is not a bed

of roses. The nightmare begins.

NO OVERPOWERING

Many relationships fail because one party tries to

overpower another,or demands too much. People in love

tend to think that love will conquer all and their

spouses will change the bad habits after marriage.

Actually, this is not the case. There is a Chinese

saying which ca! rries the meaning that "It is easier

to reshape a mountain or a river than a person's

character."

It is not easy to change. Thus, having high

expectation on changing the spouse character will

cause disappointment and unpleasantness. It would be

less painful to change ourselves and lower our

expectations..

RIGHT SPEECH

There is a Chinese saying which carries the meaning

that "A speech will either prosper or ruin a nation."

Many relationships break off because of wrong speech.

When a couple is too close with each other,we always

forget mutual respect and courtesy.

We may say anything without considering if it would

hurt the other party.

A friend and her millionaire husband visited their

construction site. A worker who wore a helmet saw her

and shouted,"Hi, Emily! Remember me? We used to date

in the secondary school." On the way home, her

millionaire husband teased her, "Luckily you married

me.Otherwise you will be the wife of a construction

worker." She answered ,"You should appreciate that

you married me. Otherwise, he will be the millionaire

and not you."

Frequently exchanging these remarks plants the seed

for a bad relationship. It's like a broken egg -

cannot be reversed.

PERSONAL PERCEPTION

Different people have different perception. One man's

meat could be another man's poison. A couple bought a

donkey from the market. On the way home,a boy

commented, "Very stupid. Why neither of them ride on

the donkey?"Upon hearing that, the husband let the

wife ride on the donkey. He walked besides them.

Later, an old man saw it and commented, "The husband

is the head of family. How can the wife ride on the

donkey while the husband is on foot?" Hearing this,

the wife quickly got down and let the husband ride on

the donkey.

Further on the way home, they met an old Lady. She

commented, "How can the man ride on the donkey but

let the wife walk. He is no gentleman." The husband

thus quickly asked the wife to join him on the donkey.

Then, they met a young man. He commented, "Poor

donkey, how can you hold up the weight of two persons.

They are cruel to you."

Hearing that, the husband and wife immediately climbed

down from the donkey and carried it on their

shoulders.

It seems to be the only choice left. Later, on a

narrow bridge, the donkey was frightened and

struggled. They lost their balance and fell into the

river. You can never have everyone praise you, nor

will everyone condemn you. Never in the past, not at

present, and never will be in the future.

Thus, do not be too bothered by others words if our

conscience is clear..

BE PATIENT

This is a true story which happened in the States. A

man came out of his home to admire his new truck. To

his puzzlement, his three-year-old son was happily

hammering dents into the shiny paint of the truck.

The man ran to his son, knocked him away, hammered

the little boy's hands into pulp as punishment. When

the father calmed down, he rushed his son to the

hospital.

Although the doctor tried desperately to save the

crushed bones, he finally had to amputate the fingers

from both the boy's hands. When the boy woke up from

the surgery & saw his bandaged stubs, he innocently

said, " Daddy,I'm sorry about your truck." Then he

asked, "but when are my fingers going to grow back?"

The father went home & committed suicide.

Think about this story the next time someone steps on

your feet or u wish to take revenge. Think first

before u lose your patience with someone u love.

Trucks can be repaired.. Broken bones & hurt feelings

often can't. Too often we fail to recognize the

difference between the person and the performance. We

forget that forgiveness is greater than revenge.

People make mistakes. We are allowed to make mistakes.

But the actions we take while in a rage will haunt us

forever.

.live.love.learn. - annonymous

Slavik 20 yrs ago

First of all, to all the people out there that believe no man can resist the urge to cheat, I am a man that has never cheated, nor ever had it in my mind too. I dont really give a damn if you believe me or not. Even in high-school, and college, I always remained faithful. I have been cheated on my share of times, but it never waived me from trying to find,"The Girl", that could remain faithful. I learned a long time ago that when somene cheats on you, it over. First time shame on them, but the next time shame on you. More times then not there is going to be a, "Next time". Its not worth the mental and emotional stress.

Just give it time and I am sure you will find one of, the rare and the few that can remain faithful under any condition. I have. I am engaged to a wonderful young women now. Even though it took me going to prison to find her, I have her now. She was my pen-pal when I was locked up, and once i got out we got together. Now together for 3 years this December 4th and to be married next July. When we have kids it is going to be a great honor teaching them the principles, integrity, and moral values my dad has taught me.

wildorchid 20 yrs ago

We do what we want to do. If we want to cheat our partners, we do it and if we don't want to, we just don't do it.

I believe that we as human beings can control our actions except the mentally sick cases.

Joice 20 yrs ago

Innocence leads to being cheated

being cheated leads to cheating

Slavik 20 yrs ago

I feel you on that one.

alexinbeijing2 20 yrs ago

Men are incredibly good at one thing that women are not: separating sex and love. That's one of the reasons why it's more common for men to cheat.

It all goes back to biology. Men have lots of sperm to spread around so they are happy to do so when given the chance. Women, on the other hand, only can give birth to a limited number of children. So women are by necessity more picky. This of course is speaking in broad generalities and certainly does not cover all cases, but I would venture it covers the majority.

I think cheating can be OK given a few constraints. First, the cheater cannot be diverting resources from the cheatee. This mainly includes money. If a husband would spend a RMB1000 that he otherwise wouldn't spend when cheating, the wife (and, even more reprehensibly, children if around) is losing out. However, if the husband would spend that RMB1000 on beer with buddies, then if he spends it on beer with a mistress, it seems OK. This obviously implies no pregnancies, unless of course the man couldn't be forced to pay child support (only considering the wife's benefit, not the child's).

However, a more important problem is time. In our busy modern lives, time is arguably an even scarcer commodity than money. Thus if a man is diverting time from his woman for the mistress, she's losing out and it's no go. However, if on a business trip the husband meets some woman in a bar and they have a little tryst, then no problem.

Finally it must be no threat to the cheatee. If you can have sex with someone and there's no chance you're going to be thinking, "Maybe I should leave my wife for this girl..." then you'd pass this part of the test.

Finally, and perhaps without needing saying, safe sex is a must. It's totally unfair to put the cheatee at risk for the cheater's personal gain.

So, if cheating is no risk to the relationship, not a drain of cheatee's resources (whether material or in the time commitment of the cheater), and done in a safe manner, I don't see what the problem is with cheating. I know I'm going to get hammered for things like "love" and "trust", but just looking at it in cold hard logic it seems like such psychological constructs would be irrational if the above criteria are met.

Granted, this is a high bar to meet and I would venture that very few cheaters would ever meet this bar. If the cheatee is going to be hurt, then the cheater is risking the relationship. And the situations where neither time nor money is diverted from the cheatee are rare.

In practicality, I suppose that the only time that these criteria would be met is when the couple allow each other to cheat (obviously not a common proposition) or the cheater can be sure that it will remain a secret. (What cheater doesn't think that?)

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

i agree with the (general) difference in men's and women's ability to separate love and sex, which forms one of the bases of your argument.

dancedude 20 yrs ago

as a guy who previously cheated - but STOPPED - i used to share alex's rationale. my decision was based on whether my action would hurt my gf. and i reasoned that if she never finds out, then there's no way it can hurt her.

so why did i change? i still separate love and sex, and enjoy the latter tremendously. so why don't i cheat anymore?

because i realized that _even if the girl never finds out about the act_, i am no longer the person she loves once i cheat on her - by the virtue of that fact. we may continue to have the relationships, and she will say she loves me, but that "me" won't be identical with who i actually am anymore.

also, i'm now getting a kick out of being honest. it makes me much more conservative about entering relationships - since i know that i wouldn't cheat, i usually decline relationship when the girl asks..

to all who say that "all men cheat" - please stop the nonsense. to all women who are afraid of taking chances - alas, there's no other way - you'll be rewarded eventually.

Bunny 20 yrs ago

Bravo dancedude!

sbkinhk 20 yrs ago

A few random thoughts

1 Re the biology: Ever heard of 'The Coolidge Effect'?

I'll copy and paste a little here ...

"The story goes that President and Mrs Coolidge were visiting a government farm in Kentucky one day and after arrival were taken off on separate tours. When Mrs Coolidge passed the chicken pens she paused to ask her guide how often the rooster could be expected to perform his duty. 'Dozens of times a day' was her guide's reply. She was most impressed by this and said, 'Please tell that to the President.' When the President was duly informed of the rooster's performance he was initially dumbfounded. Then a thought occurred to him. 'Was this with the same hen each time?' he inquired. 'Oh no, Mr President, a different one each time' was his host's reply. The President nodded slowly, smiled and said, ''Tell that to Mrs Coolidge!'

Although the Coolidge Effect is somewhat diminished in force within primates, and perhaps especially so in humans who have moral compunctions to deal with in addition, vestiges of it are nevertheless apparent. Before marriage it is usual for men to initiate intercourse at a fairly high frequency with their fiancée. After a few years of marriage, however, the husband's sexual appetite begins to wane and an apparent reversal of libido may even occur, with the now frustrated wife demanding more love-making than her 'tired' husband is able to supply. He, of course, is still perfectly capable of being aroused by his mistresses and office girls and, if fortunate enough to secure an invitation to an orgy, would have little difficulty completing intercourse with two or three anonymous young women in the course of the evening's festivities. Sex therapists see many men who are reported as 'impotent' by their wives but who privately confess to considerable prowess with a succession of mistresses. Clearly, this is more of a social problem than a medical condition. "

Do all men cheat? I doubt it. I've been with my wife for 16 years and haven't. I know plenty of men who I could say with almost 100% certainty haven't cheated on their wives / partners either.

I don't need to use any moral or religious argument to keep myself in check. From a simple cost / benefit point of view I believe that the negative consequences of cheating on my wife would far outweigh the physical thrill.

I'm sure there are plenty of couples who achieve a level of intimacy and companionship that both can both reduces desire for extra - marital dalliances and enhances their own sex life.

I'm sure there are plenty of men who love their partners so much (or would be overcome by such intense guilt) that the strain of keeping any sort of affair a secret would be almost unbearable.

Dancedude's post reminded me of a comment made by a friend of my wife's whose husband had a brief affair: it changes everything.

I have been in situations where there were plenty of opportunities but at the end of the day I know I couldn't stomach the thought of all the hurt and grief cheating would inflict on my beautiful, intelligent wife and our family.

Bunny 20 yrs ago

that is sooooo sweet...especially the beautiful intelligent wife part...just a small question...what are you doing checking out womens only sections...?

dancedude 20 yrs ago

hm, it's hard to disagree with the basic fe/male difference re: love-sex connection. virtually all posts above agree that it's harder for women to have physical affairs only; at some point, sex involves emotions.

this means that in a monogamous relationship men pay a higher price. (it's harder for them not to be tempted, and easier to have sex without attachment.) as i noted above, i don't cheat. but it makes me wonder.. if i'm paying a higher price, what's the compensation?

:0

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

sbkinhk said it earlier: your compensation is the love, loyalty and respect of a "beautiful, intelligent wife and family." :-)

New Jersey 20 yrs ago

dancedude, I do agree with voiceofreason. My husband cheated, although I took him back. I know that what goes around comes around. Do bad get it worse (10x worse. Do good and you will be blessed. I believe that he will pay with whatever hurts him the most. His kid; and I will not even have to move a finger. When the day comes, I will just sit down, get some pop corn and enjoy the show (if my kid and I are still around). I do not even wish him bad.

drjoker 20 yrs ago

It's all very simple. Cheating is like eating food. Horniness is a innate human drive just like hunger. With today's risk of AIDS and only a 98% effectiveness of condoms, cheating is like Russian Roulette. So, it's got to be REAL BAD at home for him to cheat on you. In other words, are you satisfying him sexually? Many American women think that being good in bed is enough. That is wrong. The main problem is that most American women use sex as a tool to manipulate a man. If he does something that displeases you, he "goes to the dog house" (doesn't get any sex from you). American women and Americanized women have no sense of duty. Traditional Asian women have a sense of duty. They'll have sex with a guy even if he pisses her off because it is her duty as a wife. If you do not give him what he wants freely and without negotiation, he cannot "eat" at home. Therefore, he will satisfy his hunger by going out to "eat". Horniness is just like hunger.

Now, there are 2 complicating factors;

1. He travels. He has no "home cooking" to eat when he travels if you do not travel with him. Unless you want him to "eat out", you'd better travel with him.

2. You're not his wife and therefore really have no "duty" to have sex with him. Therefore, by the same logic, he has not "duty" to be faithful to you.

2 Possible Solutions;

1. Leave him and find a man that doesn't like to have sex. In other words, find a man that has very little appetite.

2. Marry him and put a prenuptial agreement in writing outlining what he'll lose if he is unfaithful. Allow him some liberties while he is traveling or travel with him. For example, if he is travelling alone for his job, you can allow him to get covered oral from other women with no lip kissing.

This is the view of ALL MEN unless the man has very little or no sex drive. Not only does this apply to me, it also applies to the THOUSANDS of patients I have seen over the years. Just don't complain about not getting enough sex if you leave him for a guy with no sex drive.

allnighter 20 yrs ago

I disagreed that 'it's harder for women to have physical affairs only'. I think that's an entirely unfair comment and irrelevant in this day and age. I think what's probably more true is that women think more of the consequences of cheating.

Men and women cheat, it's been happening since the day one. So I think it's just one of the things you learn in life to cope with your partner's cheating...

Dragon13 20 yrs ago

Statistically I once heard from a reliable source that in the USA it is more common for a man to take back a woman that cheats rather than a woman to take back a man that cheats. So- if I had to guess I would say you have the high ground statistically therefore a great liklihood he will not cheat again. A bit of an assumption- but could be true. Depends on how you think about things in general, and what your feeling is about this man.

I have never been able to accept or forgive a woman that has cheated on me. However, with age, I have changed a bit-- now I think that I myself am less perfect than I always thought I was and it is a bit easier for me to accept a single betrayal if set in the proper context. This depends all on you personally and the context of this betrayal.

Stinkerbelle 20 yrs ago

I disagree with "once a cheater, always a cheater". I do agree with "once a liar/manipulator/thief, always a liar/manipulator/thief".

There is a big difference between someone who strays and takes responsibility for their decision and correcting their mistakes and moving on -- and someone who not only cheats, but lies and refuses to take responsibility for their own choices.

And I think any of us who say "I would NEVER..." or "My spouse would NEVER..." have to realize that never is a bloody long time, and such arrogance has a way of coming back years later and biting us in the posterior.

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

i agree with Stinkerbelle - arrogance comes back to haunt, bite, and humble! - as well as something Dragon13 said: "...with age, I have changed a bit-- now I think that I myself am less perfect than I always thought I was and it is a bit easier for me to accept a single betrayal if set in the proper context."

there is a difference between genuinely making one mistake and never repeating it again, vs a deep and abiding character trait that will never ever change, even if outward behavior changes temporarily.

trust me, i know: the one time in my life that i cheated, i thought i would die afterwards from the sheer physical nausea of my betrayal...i was so utterly sick at myself, so completely disappointed and embarrassed to have discovered i was only human after all, and not a very nice one at that, in that very moment. all the high and mighty and moralistic pronouncements i had ever made, all the unsympathetic, damning, unforgiving words i had ever said about anybody who had ever found themselves in a bad relationship and had cheated as a result...well these all came rushing back to me as i wept and freaked out. (btw the guy i was with totally freaked out too - NOT the post-amour reaction he was expecting! - today i can laugh, remembering the bewilderment and horror in his eyes, but at the time it was just a bad, bad scene.) just because my relationship with the person i had cheated on was not going well, was not reason enough to have cheated - he did not deserve it.

i never want to feel that way again. i can honestly say i have never cheated ever again, and any partings i have had were never due to a third party.

btw, one last two-cents'-worth, in response to some earlier posts about women being equally capable as men to have sex without emotions: not me. can't do it. and if i'm alone, i'll scratch my own itch, thank you very much.

Dragon13 20 yrs ago

To voiceofreason:

what do you do in Manila?

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

hi Dragon13, i will send you a private mail.

BumpyDog 20 yrs ago

so presumably both of you have no problems with your wives taking care of their own needs with a string of attractive young men?

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

brian14071, may i ask how you convinced your wife to agree to this arrangement? am asking in all seriousness, i really want to know.

lotusinbloom 20 yrs ago

'.....' posted a really sound reply, Sleepless. Give it some deep thought. We all have some form of insecurity within us (albeit perhaps with different issues), so yes - it is how YOU deal with it. On another point - and from personal experience, some men do cheat because there's an issue in the relationship that they cannot come out & talk about. Perhaps they are resentful in some way. As a result, they cheat - simply because they WANT to get caught..., emotionally underdeveloped?! Yes (aren't men in general?), but sometimes this is the only way they can express their anger OR get the issues out on the table. It doesn't apply to all men, but like I said - I've been through that one personally. That was some time ago in my past. Ask me if I've forgiven him? Question really is, have a forgiven myself for being a co-creator in that situation.

lotusinbloom 20 yrs ago

P.S.: One last thing... I don't know how it is with men, but I can't say I agree with "once a cheater, always a cheater." I have ALWAYS had a 'Plan B' in any & every relationship - ALWAYS cheated...until now. My fiance & I have been together 5 years, engaged 2, and gone through some REALLY tough times... and during those times the thought of being with another man made me (and still makes me) pysically ill. I even TRIED to imagine being with someone else, I was so set on leaving at one point. But no, I didn't go that route. I put it down to maturity...and valuing/respecting myself and my relationship enough.

lotusinbloom 20 yrs ago

Maybe boyfriend just grew up over those 10 months. Could be after losing you, he just learned to respect and value you that much more. Be blessed, dear heart.

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

now i'd love to hear brian14071's wife's side of the story - in all seriousness. it would be great to hear it straight from a woman in such an arrangement.

flabbergasted 20 yrs ago

lammum, all of the above do not necessarily make a good speller, and there are plenty of assumptions in your post....actually what makes most people good spellers these days is spell check and that is not an option on AX

Whether I agree with Brian or not, he is being absolutely honest and sharing his thoughts. He is NOT saying he is mature, gorgeous etc...what he is saying is that he accepts now after 12 years that he is not strictly monogomous, but nor did he say he was a serial 'cheater'. He said that his wife, while she might not agree with his thoughts on this, knows his thoughts, and therefore does not probe unecessarily (there would be posters here who are checking SMS's, emails, mail, hiring PI's and preparing to cut off testicles). He also said that while all this is true, that his kids and his wife mean everything to him, and from what he has expressed, he is never going to lose his wife over this, because of how they have structured their relationship.

What is right for some is not right for others...

Some people need their other half by their side constantly - me, well, I think I would run the distance of half the globe, from that because it sends me crazy. I am one woman that really needs my space.

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

brian14071, the reason i ask you these questions (thanks for your reply, btw) is because i truly want to know the point of view of someone who advocates an open marriage. i also have my own personal reasons for doing this kind of research, because i'm in a long distance relationship, which my bf wants to turn into marriage.

i already know i am a one-man woman - that is, when i'm in a relationship with a man, i don't fool around. however, after having been married once before, become a mother, and lived and learned and observed a lot, i am now much more pragmatic and realistic about everything.

i also know that i have really enjoyed being on my own for over 10 years now - i've had such a marvelous time, a COMPLETE time, with some struggles but with far more successes, highlights, travels, career milestones, and wonderful relationships (so i suppose you could classify me as a serial monogamist) than perhaps i might have had, had i stayed with my ex-husband.

now i'm being asked to settle down again. SO before i get married again (IF i get married again!), i'd like to know all possible ways of making that marriage work, because i don't wish to be divorced again. "all possible ways" therefore includes POVs like yours at one end of the spectrum, to "absolute monogamy" at the other end.

i believe you that you would die for your wife and kids. i believe men are entirely capable of having sex with one woman, while remaining completely emotionally committed to another. that's not a judgment one way or another - i'm just stating a belief of mine.

i ask now about your wife's side, because that would make your POV complete. you say she accepts your views and practices; you say she probably prefers your sexual fidelity; you say she doesn't force the issue lest she lose her family. i just want to be clear: is she financially dependent on you, and thus in reality not have a choice whatever you decide to do? i.e. she MUST accept what you do outside the marriage?

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

i understand what you are saying, jay2004. (also, i think you mean your wife said "...as long as u wouldn't affect our lives.")

i've seen it happen to others - it's very sad. in your case, i don't think anyone would condemn you for fulfilling your needs elsewhere.

space-dust 20 yrs ago

brian14071, it's interesting reading all your posts. while we are asking for your wife's point of view, I am interested to know how those other women feel about the arrangement, have any of them fallen in love with you? or you walk away as soon as this happens? We know women want more than physical pleasure? and have you found youself falling for any of these women? and how you manage to be so cold and indifferent about it all? Assuming you have no kids with your wife, would you leave the marriage altogether?

voiceofreason 20 yrs ago

thank you brian14701, i appreciate your honest reply. i am in indecision limbo right now regarding my bf. i love him dearly - he is a truly wonderful man, who i can picture growing old with...BUT. there are so many "buts" from my POV (yes, it means point of view), and none of them to do with who he is as a person. they are to do with me being as honest with myself, about myself, as possible - i owe it to both of us before i make that commitment.

as i said, he is great, absolutely everything a woman could ask for (except he's not in the same city as me!). because if i look at what has actually happened in my life (a series of monogamous relationships) versus what he is asking of me - a lifetime commitment - i'm not sure i could do it. i WANT to, but am i capable of it? maybe i like our LDR arrangment because, cumbersome though it may be, i can never get bored with or sick of him. (i would also be giving up a LOT - a fantastic fulfilling job, a comfortable asian lifestyle - if i were to move to where he is...but that's another thread entirely.)

in any case, thanks for your reply. your situation and POV are much clearer now.

sailing-home 20 yrs ago

Brian,

you sound like a very reasonable, intelligent guy, who just plain likes things his way... despite having made a marriage contract 20 odd years ago which you have since broken. how much effort did you put into making your marriage work better before you decided to announce to your wife that whatever her reaction you were going to find yourself a few girlfriends...? and what exactly did you think her answer would be...?!... with 2 kids and all the 'face' issues that come along with chinese culture, there really was only one answer... so why did you even ask...? why not do it anyway, at least that way she would in theory never know.

What is your plan if one of these girlfriends decides to come and find you and your wife.. and to tell her all about what you've been up to... much as your wife might accept what she doesn't know... what about what she does know if the GF tells her...

What about STD's... I realise that your GF's are long-term, but in the utopia that you're trying to create here, your wife goes from almost zero risk of infection from an STD if she's got a monogomous husband, to risk from catching an STD from your lover, any of her other lovers, her husband, and any hookers her husband is seeing on the side... I wonder if she's really signed up for that stuff...!?! ... what a delightful future your children will have if their mum & dad are to die of AIDS at some point in the foreseeable future... (I certainly do not wish it on you, but the case can be made for it regardless)... but at least they'll be able to say "hey, at least dad had a whale of a time stomping on peoples feelings while he was here".

Brian, I think you're a nice guy, I just personally disagree so I wanted to put my thoughts down here... sorry if they're a bit harsh at times... but I'm a bit passionate about this... look forward to the continuing discussion...! (see the blog link below for why this is a good discussion)

Nick.

http://sailinghome.blogspirit.com/archive/2006/01/01/greyness.html

BumpyDog 20 yrs ago

Well, Brain, you've said it yourself. You believe your life really matters and your state of happiness in important beyond anyone elses. No mention of your wife's life or happiness.

Your relationship with your wife does not sound equal at all. She is financially dependent on you and would rather you didn't sleep with other women, but she puts up with it to keep the family unit together. You intend to leave her in a few years time when the kids have left home.

So what you are really saying is that your arrangement works for you.

Oh and well done for not rubbing your wife's face in your infidelity! how big of you.

sailing-home 20 yrs ago

Brian,

obviously the post has upset you, sorry about that... it's just, as I said, I am passionate about the subject and was looking forward to a good discussion on it... I apologise again if some of the comments were harsh... it shows through your reaction how passionate you really are about your family, and however harsh my words sounded, I wanted to make a point that I thought might be best made in the way I did it... sorry if that's not how it came over to you, and sorry again for upsetting you.

I would still like your comment on the marriage contract that you agreed to all those years ago... how do you view it now...? what about the compromise that is usually reached between husband and wife... I personally cannot see much compromise if you have just told her what you are going to do whether she agrees or not.. what is your opinion on this...?

on the subject of STD's... I did not accuse you of actually having an STD... I was merely making the point that it is a possibility, given your infidelity... would you agree or not agree on this issue...?

the blog link was only really put there to make a point about the enjoyment of the discussion... we don't necessarily have to agree on these issues, but I do enjoy the debate...

looking forward to your reply.

Nick.

peterk 20 yrs ago

A man that cheated once will be cheating again, or at least 99% of the time.

If a men cheats it is for many reasons, but essentially its in his character and once he has done it he will most likely do it again.

candy28 20 yrs ago

I dont think I've ever been with a guy who hasn'c cheated on me. My conclusion, there' nothing you can do it. It will only make you crazy monitoring him always and before you know it, you are already old, wrinkly and have wasted your life on him. I say, dont focus too much on your lovelife! have fun and get a life! spend time with friends or do anything that would divert your attention (when your guy is not with you, that is). Focusing too much on a guy might also push him away from you.

bye22ca 20 yrs ago

I am a guy;

This is a very difficult question, first, I do believe most men do cheat, not all, but most... but situation varies from man to man. My thinking is - if one can not control or force another human being's action, even if you can it is temporary and unpleasant. SO the answer is trying to working with this issue, working around it, and see more possitive aspects of your relationship. In my opinion, if it is PURELY physical,and no romance, then maybe it is ok :( I know this sounds terrible, but it is not a perfect world....

without trying to make excuses for cheating, sometime the sexual urges can create many unpleasant tensions, withdrawn, behavourial issues. If one night stand (safe sex i hope) is all it takes to relief such tension, then from a negative situation, there maybe some possitive elements to it..

The key question is, DOES HE TREAT YOU WELL apart from this?? if the answer is YES, then you need to think how much do u love him, and like to spend yoour life with him?

one56day 20 yrs ago

Hasn't anyone heard of SA? Sexaholic's Anonymous? Truly it is the world's largest disease and it is hardly recognized by people today. You can get lots of information searching online or go to http://saa-recovery.org where you can learn all the reasons that men can not be faithful. Men in general have very large insecurity issues and until they can recognize that they have a problem there is little that you can say or do to change that. I attend support meetings for members that are co-dependent or are facing recovery from living with or having a relationship with an SA individual. Take 5 minutes and surf to the website above, it can help you learn a great deal about the manipulation of the opposite sex and how far they will go to deceive and maneuver you or anyone else that gets in their way from getting there FIX. Hope this will help some of you in your personal plights. I know that it helped me. There is also a wonderful book "Out of the shadows" by Patrick Carnes that can explain in great depth what men will do and how they will ruin there life and ours just to have SEX! To sum things up, they will love you and hurt you without being able to control themselves and only you have the power to either stop being an enabler or move on with your life. YOU CAN NOT CHANGE MEN LIKE THIS...if you can get them counseling and help that is the only hope there is to repair. SA addicts will jeopardize there family, friends, children or anyone they need to to get what they want. Manipulation is what they are masters at. My man wants desperately to repair all the damage that he has done. He has been in the program for 2 years and so have I, and I am no where close to be able to move on. I hope I have been of some help to those who read this.

Davy28773 20 yrs ago

Wow... long thread.. my 2 cents are as follows:

Guys cheat because of a number of reasons-

1) Wife doesn't like sex as much as he does

2) His woman settled down from their dating habbits where things were lovey dovey and starts to nag

3) Man doesn't feel the love

4) Men like to get what they can't have

5) Men are kids in a candy shop all their lives, choice is hard

6) Time makes love harder... try to rekindle the fire and not extinguish it

7) Kids are important but your husbands needs are equally as important

I have friends that have wives that would rather their husbands go and get another woman to relieve the pressure they feel from their husbands needs. As long as things are talked about and it is in the open what is the big deal. A good friends wife knows he plays, accepts it and on their last trip to thailand she said she wanted to try something new, so they got another woman and had fun. On another trip she asked if she could get a gigalo while he watched. He was ok with it and to this day after 10 years of marriage and 3 kids, they are as happy as when they first dated. Why? Open minds... as long as you know he loves you and you only, he comes home, practices safe sex outside well, embrace it, not judge it...

ckeh 20 yrs ago

There is an excellent book out there called "Torn Asunder"---written for married couples in adultery. It shows research of the 'stages' of an affair beginning with what goes on in the mind...and the stages of 'recovery'. It is profoundly healing.

agreen 18 yrs ago

I am incredibly surprised that no one has brought up something which is a vitally important point (at least to me).

Would you agree that it's not necessarily the cheating, but the deception that is the problem? There are men out there (as evidenced by the above) that meet women and tell them about their 'bad behaviour', and then there are men that meet women, don't tell them about their cheating and lying. Am not condoning cheating, but obviously would prefer the first, if I was in that unfortunate circumstance.

Why? Because when you first meet someone they don't have feelings for you and can really make an objective decision about whether they want to be involved with this type of person.

Certainly if anything it is the wondering but not knowing of whether a man is cheating that makes women go crazy. It'd just be better for everyone if male and female cheaters made their positions clear from the beginning.

And, actually, I don't believe once a cheater always a cheater (at least on the women's side), maybe it's different for men.

britabroad 18 yrs ago

My theory is that if you have experienced many partners while young, free and single the the attraction of cheating on a long term partner or spouse is not there. This I believe is relative for male and female.

If you choose an inexperienced partner for a long tern relationship or for marriage, then the question of how sex is with others may alway be there!!

I had over 50 partners while single, I think I experienced most things that I would ever want to and since being married I have no attraction what so ever to stray.

christinechwa 18 yrs ago

0

Kathleen2005 17 yrs ago

Did you know? Only 3% of mammals are monogamous! Like it or not, this includes human beings. Have a look at this research report, which was designed to help address this concern which women have historically expressed, and men are now also expressing: http://www.students.emory.edu/HYBRIDVIGOR/issue1/mating.htm

Bottom line: Much of it is biological.

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