How did you decide to stay in Hong Kong?

I'm getting discouraged towards the exoribant prices of low quality housing standards. I love HK but to stay here long term is a huge financial sacrifice. I know one can't compare HK's housing market to another place, citing other places as offering more quality and lower prices, because HK is truly an unique place.


Even the more "luxurious" developments" can be quite run-down. I've met people loaded enough who can just dump millions on an apartment and not experience the consequences, but for many of us, buying an apartment in HK is daunting. Buying an apartment in HK is really like paying full price for bootleg DVDs instead of paying the real stuff.


The housing factor in HK is really turning me off from HK, although I don't want to be anywhere else.


So how did you expats decide to stay in HK permanently, because such a decision involves considerable financial sacrifice? What's your story? Did you have an epiphany?

Hi, I came for 2 years, then five, then 10, now I am in my 12th year here and not looking to move out until I have done 20 years here.


Deciding to stay - there wasn't really a decision - the work was here, and it would be difficult to get a job in the home country with the stability, pay and benefits we enjoy here. With regard to housing - yes it is substandard, but it is the way it is and you have to get over that.


We are in the throes of buying a place and paying far more here than we would in our home country is a tough decision - especially when you get so much less, however, the possible benefits far outweigh any housing market at home, and the risks also.


So if you want to stay here - you need to just get over it - either find a better job that has better benefits, or within the housing market, start smaller than you would prefer and work your way to something you would like to live in.


Living in HK is all down to compromise - what are you willing to compromise - and if you do want to stay here long term, sinking your money into property is one way of capitalising on your income - at least your money is lining your own pcket and not that of a landlord, but the housing market in the last 10 years has really suffered a major blow - a few of them in fact, so don't start out too big.

Give it about a year, you'll either begin to become addicted to it (and get used to the living space) or you'll have had enough. Give it 5 years and you wont be able to go back....


Now if we can only do something about this http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/pollution/

I had a very unsophisticated approach: I needed a place where contracts under English style law are enforced by honest courts and where it never gets dark before 6pm year round. So it was HK or Singapore or, um, nowhere. In the whole world, there's nowhere else that meets those criteria.



My native Britain is wonderful in summer; but for five months of the year it was dark when I left home in the morning and dark when I left the office in the evening. I felt like a mole. And remember England's winter wind and drizzle as you stand on a godforsaken suburban platform only to be told that, yet again, your train is cancelled?



For twenty years I suppose I just assumed that's how the whole world lived; but when I first worked in Asia (Singapore) I realised life didn't have to be like that. Year round, you can swim with the kids before work in the morning and play outside with them when you get home in the evening.



There's no denying the housing issue in HK. But for similar commuting time and facilities, prices aren't so bad compared with three of the four other international financial centres - London, Tokyo, New York. Think of Park View, for example: where near London can you bring up a family safely with a swimming pool and decent schools on the edge of a country park and yet be at work in an investment bank by taxi in 15 minutes? There's simply nothing to compare it with. And if Park View is too run down for you, then Cyberport.



Even if you don't have kids, where in London can you live in safety within walking distance of the Bank of England and Covent Garden bars/restaurants and yet pay Sheung Wan rents (less than a thousand pounds a month for two bedrooms in a four year old building with 24 hour security)?



I never thought we would think of returning to Europe; but the pollution in winter here is becoming unbearable and, as most of it arises outside HK, it's hard to see how it can be stopped. Either that, or back to Singapore.



Of course, if you don't need to be in a financial centre, head for Madeira or the Canary Island of La Gomera tomorrow!

sa,



It is substandard because build quality and finishing, even from top developers in HK, is way below Western standards at a similar point in the spectrum. And no large developer in HK gives more than a two year guarantee (compared to a minimum - if I remember correctly - of 7 years in the UK).



Even in some brand new top end developments here, water comes down from the kitchen/bathroom above [after friends bought a brand new HKD12,000 per square foot place, they received a great note from the management office saying "the lead contractor has advised management that the bathroom floor is not waterproof, so please try to avoid getting water on the bathroom floor!"]; sound proofing between neighbouring apartments is way below standards for comparable western buildings; glass is too thin to provide adequate thermal/noise insulation, etc.

Leakage because of poor fitting windows, leakage from bathroom pipes, walls that are not square, plate size concrete crumbling around your heads onto beds due to leaking flat roofed houses! leaks around a/c fittings causing horrible mould stains on the walls.


Plumbing totally crap with toilets and water pressure inadequate, leaking toilets, electricity dodgy, storm water run off creating flooding, .. these are just of the problems we have in our current house...all exasperated becasue everything is so hard to fix because it is embedded in cement.


I am sure I could find more - these are just off the top of my head - Have bought and sold many houses in Australia and always the quality is superior than here - even for the cheap end of the market.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.


I looked at apartments in the 6-7 million range -Cherry Crest and Casa Bella are among the "better" ones in the bunch. I was just at a friend's who lives in 80 Robinson. It's valued around 13 million, but the materials provided are eye-opening in their lack of quality. For a property that's worth 2 million Euros, you can knock on a door that isn't hollow inside or find a decent chandelier (not just a lonely light bulb) in most of the world but not in HK.


I know I'll have to get over it eventually, but it'll take quite some time for this housing reality to sink into my system.


The question is: is there any other place in the world that is bold enough to call a 35 year-old building that stinks of urine and is decaying in humidity a "Mansion"?




I think HK is worth everything else - transport, entertainment, food/dining, shopping, traveling, civil society, general dynamics, etc. are abundant.

We've been searching for properties at Western Midlevels within the price bracket of HK5-6m and all properties in that price range are about 30-40 years old. So far, I have not seen any that stinks of urine or are badly decaying. Most old properties are required to undergo reconstruction/decorating of lobbies and hallways at some point.


There is no doubt that property in these areas are expensive but surely if you are going to invest this kind of money, you are going to put some money towards redecorating the flat to your taste. You are never going the interior of a flat (in HK or anywhere in the world) that is ever going to be perfect for you.

Most people in HK who want to sell, usually just tart up the flat with a fresh layer of white paint and hope it looks 'new'.

We have just bought a flat in a 35 year old building that has not been decorated in over 10 years and we will have to put in at least HK300k into rewiring, plumbing, fixing any leakages,knocking down walls etc so it is suited to what we want. It is best to find a reputable decorator and explain exactly what you want and with what materials you want to use otherwise they will use the cheapest material. Most decorators will even take you around to Wan Chai/Sham Shui Po where all decorating materials are sold.

I know how hard it is to find a decent flat this area of HK island but don't give up.

we decided to live in Hk after having lived in europe for 12 years. switzerland and germany.....

#1... tax.. flat 15%... not liek US or Europe where nearly half your earnings go to the govt and we get hardly anyting. but here in HK.. we hv fine roads, nice transport system, good medical care..

housing is not upto european or american standards. so we decided not to buy property here. not because its sub standard but because of the speculation.

we bought properties in the US of A rent them out and pay our rent here in HK.. works out v.well indeed.

we are in business and everything is transparent.

we speak the language, love the food, and adore the hills and the hikes. we are addicted to our weekend mountain hikes or mountain bikes and suits us very well.

have stayed here nearly 17 years and will stay here until the day i die.

i love HK. oh yeah I do.