Posted by
kinggreen
19 yrs ago
I am relocating to HK. I want my children to join the local school so they can know local friends and learn to speak chinese. I do not want to go to international school just because my whole purpose to relocate to HK is for them to learn to speak chinese.
If the regular local public school will take them, how much would they charge for foreigner? Any one has experience on how the children handle the totally different language in the beginning? In contrast, I have seen chinese immigrant put their children in a new environment, the children can pick up English in a year with no parental help.
Anyone know the answer or have experience?
Thanks!
David
Please support our advertisers:
Just be prepared for your children to learn nothing else while they are in the local school until they learn Chinese (cantonese). The local system is not set up for non english speakers unless it is an english medium school. There is also a different learning mentality - rote learning, no activities in class etc. Think this through very carefully before throwing your children in the deep end.
Did you want them to speak cantonese or phutongha? If the latter- you will be very disappointed. You may want to lo0ok at the mandarin section of the Kiangsu Chekiang School. They have an international section as well and it appears that non english speakers are catered to as there are a number of them in the classes in the mandarin speaking section. (They teach in mandarin)
Please support our advertisers:
MC
19 yrs ago
Agree with dimac4 that this has to be thought through. All local schools teach in cantonese with the exception of Kiangsu Chekiang that dimac4 mentioned. HK local schools normally have a very heavy workload and the whole system lacks focus on creativity and other non-academic qualities you might want your children to have. In addition, you would need to hire tutors to help them given that you cannot at home. Even the local families have tutors.
All well intended that the system is such that personally I don't think it is practical. Personally I think it is one of the bigest problems with HK schools. In today's day and age, cantonese not mandarin is the medium of teaching. It is a joke.
Please support our advertisers:
Have you thought about local private or semi private schools? The fees are approx HKD2000-3000 per month (depending on schools) and many teach all their subjects in English (apart from cantonese and mandarin lessons). Your child will be able to learn cantonese at the same time as most pupils speak cantonese outside classes.
Please support our advertisers:
While they may pick up spoken Cantonese quite quickly, reading and writing is a different matter and most 'local' schools are neither equipped nor prepared to accept expat kids in such circumstances.
The recent EMB figures on English illiteracy among English language teachers in local schools would also suggest that you may wish to consider Plan B.
Please support our advertisers:
ness
19 yrs ago
Consider also how you as a parent will communicate with the school if you are not planning on learning to read write and speak cantonese. Schools are banded here and the top school with good academic performance are extremely difficult to get into if you did not start in kindergarten as well as the fact that you will have to attend whatever school your housing is in. If you are not intending to stay very long in HK it is a huge adjustment for the children for a relatively short term gain. Should you return to a non cantonese speaking country they will quickly lose there hard won skills as it is putonghau that everyone includng oveseas cantonese speakers are now learning. Additionally the children will not be getting instruction for grammar, spelling or comprehension in your native language, history, geography etc in your native school curriculum so they will need to take additional lessons on top of the heavy (although often irrelevant) homework workload that they will have from school plus learning the language if they want to be on a par with their peers when you return home. If you intend to stay for many years perhaps the upheaval would be worth it but consider how the local matriculation exams will be treated should you want them to enter a university overseas. Many local families move heaven and earth to get their children into an international school so they can attend oveseas tertiary establishments. Class sizes are large (upt to 40) and the wonderful local school I have spent time at the teachers talk with microphones as the children just talk over the top of them and announcements are made over load speakers Chairman Mao style over the top of the teachers talking over the top of the students.
Please support our advertisers:
mrsl
19 yrs ago
Have you considered somewhere like the Chinese International School, which teaches 50:50 Mandarin:English?
Please support our advertisers:
Hi,
Just like to share my experience. I enrolled my non-chinese speaking daugther in Kiangsu Chekiang (not international section)march this year. She is in K1 and eventually the class population is quite International (Surprise!) The homeroom teacher Ms Lee can speak adequate English that I have not encountered any problem so far. Amazing that my daugther start reciting some chinese poem after 1 month of schooling..eventhough with funny accent. School fee is the same for local and foreigner.
That said, I am considering to move her to the International Section in her primary school year once she has built a good foundation for Chinese.
Kinggreen, note that English is soooo much more easier to learn than Chinese.
Please support our advertisers:
I am very grateful that so many of you sharing your experience and provided me with great advices. I should have mentioned that I am a Cantonese but my wife cannot speak any. I should be able to help the children after my work (expect to be home after 8pm from what I heard, people work kind of crazy there).
The Kiangsu Chekiang school that some of you mentioned seems interesting. Is it a govt school or private? I think that it is better for them to learn mandarin. Where is it located? Does it have a web site?
Elvish raven girl: Where is Jordan in HK?
MRSL: Could you provide me more information on Chinese International School? What is it and how it works?
jamiekoh: You are surely right about learning English is much easier. I have tried myself to teach my children Cantonese but never go too far. If my wife can speak also, it may make it easier.
I realize the HK school system is very rigid and provide almost no creativity training. We will still do additional work to make up for their deficit.
Thanks you, everyone.
David
Please support our advertisers:
mrsl
19 yrs ago
Have sent you a PM, too long winded for here.
Please support our advertisers:
MayC
19 yrs ago
Kinggreen, how old are your children? This will have a bearing on how long it takes them to "blend in" to the local school.
My husband is a local hongkonger. My little baby is 20 months, speaks very little Canto but like Woody, I'm planning to send her to a local school.
My views are pretty much the same as Woody's and would like to add that if you want your kids to be fluent in Chinese, they need to be with the local kids to practise it. Otherwise, you'll find that there's still a gap in terms of how fluent they are compared to the local kids.I've heard that you also need to be fluent in Chinese if you want to send your kids to the local univerisities here.
A few months ago, I was trying to decide between international and local for my little girl. In the end, I decided to put her in the local stream.
Thanks to Woody, who's son is a bit further on than mine, I feel like I've made the right decision.
Good luck :-)
Please support our advertisers:
ritad
19 yrs ago
how old are your children....?i am also putting my child through local system....
Please support our advertisers:
cd
19 yrs ago
To Woody,
I'm glad its worked for you, but personally I would hate my child to be the only white person in the school and to be see as a 'novelty.'
Please support our advertisers:
ShazP
19 yrs ago
Woody...thx for the info on the local school. I am keen to put my lil girl in a local school, but have been worried about it. You have certainly helped me think about it positively! Thanks.
May I ask...which school is your son in & are there branches for this school? Maybe it is a normal local school in the neighbourhood....
Thanks in advance for the info...
Please support our advertisers:
To the comments on the merits of creativity being stifled in the local schools due to hard work... my two cents.
I taught high school in the US for 8 years. I had in my class, about 30% Chinese students, MANY who had just immigrated that year or the year before from either mainland China or from HK. I found their work habits truly astounding as well as remarkable. In a country where they BARELY understood the language, they worked their butts off to succeed. In contrast my non-immigrant students were blase about how hard to work. Not surprisingly, my immigrant students who worked harder by far out-performed my students who were native English speakers. We had many interesting projects and my immigrant students did not suffer in terms of lack of creativity.
In a more recent study of US students compared against students of other countries (Taiwan, Japan, and I forget the others), a huge percentage of US students indicated that the greatest factor in determining their success in math was "native intelligence or the teacher." Less than 30% responded that it had to do with their own hard work. In contrast more than double that number in Asia countries responded that hard work was the KEY factor in determining their grade in math.
Western education is falling apart at the seams it appears in many ways. TOO MUCH emphasis on creativity and not enough on just sheer hard work and discipline is hindering students from achieving their full potential. While in HK I privately taught many students and the NUMBER of excuses I heard about why they didn't finish an assignment, or why they got an "F" on an assignment was astounding. A simple "I didn't work hard enough" was the real reason behind all the excuses.
Bottom line? Don't undersestimate the value of a rigid and disciplined education. The value of hard work it teaches at a young age can make a huge difference in their overall achievement later in life. The message that HARD WORK is more important than native intelligence is a message that I think gets lost in the more "westernized" culture of international schools.
Please support our advertisers:
crj
19 yrs ago
Woody and MayC and Ritad
Not all schools are created equal - how did you find and evaluate which local school was good for your children?
I am sure there are good schools out there, but how do you find them???
Thanks
Please support our advertisers:
MayC
19 yrs ago
A very good question, crj. I don't know the answer to that either. I'm not a local here and I don't know much about the schools around me. But this is what I've done:-
1) I asked my neighbours to name a few good schools around my area
2) I went to visit these schools so I could see the facilities there, speak to the teachers and really find out about their teaching methods
3) I've done my homework and have selected a few that I like so now I'm just waiting to apply.
4) Apart from the ones my neighbours named, I also went to have a look at some not so popular ones (just in case my little girl doesn't get into the popular ones). I checked their websites, selected a few to visit and just went with my gut feeling in regards to which ones I thought my little girl would like.
My mum gave me a very good advice when I told her how stressed out I was about my little girl being "interviewed" for kindies. She said, "If your child is bright, it doesn't matter where you put her, she'll outshine the rest. Don't worry". She has a point there.... I fully understand her point but I'd be lying if I say that I'm not worried. I am.
Yes, it is quite stressful to go through the public system here...but if we look at it in another angle, everyone here's only trying to do what's best for their kids.
Having a pressurised environment is not necessarily a bad thing, nor is a relaxed environment. I think it boils down to what method suits your children.
I worked as an auditor in HK a few years ago. My colleagues were extremely hardworking compared to my colleagues in Sydney. The standard they displayed here is amazing and they deserve to be praised. I'm not saying it is bad in Sydney, just saying that the locals here do have qualities to be admired...
Please support our advertisers:
We are based in North East China where there are no international schools. Our three children attend the local school. Granted at first it was very difficult, but 5 months down the road the results are paying off. My daughters can speak mandarin, write pinyin and have started characters. In regards to homework, our Ayi helps them every evening after dinner. I have also been approached by several graduate teachers who are very keen to help our children with their homework. I also supply them with work from the British curriculum, teachers work books that I bought prior to coming here, Geography and History, there is an abundance of inforation on the internet, try EDhelper for example. I usually organise work for them to do in their English class as obviously they don't need to be involved in the ESL class. As far as creativity is concerned I have to agree, it is not encouraged here at all. Maybe in the big cities schools are more forward thinking but from my experience as an oral english teacher it's hard to get them to be creative. I teach kindergarten and middle school and somtimes I get very frustrated with the chinese way. I do believe our children will benefit from this experience and I think learning in a state school is not a bad thing, we can more than make up for the lack of creativity in school at home and there is nothing more fun than sitting around the table talking gibberish and making something with your kids. Coincidently, a couple of months ago a student of mine returned from 3 years in Canada, he sttled in very well but had a very tough time catching up with maths, he is 14 years old. I guess everyone is different and we all have very strong opinions about our children and their education. Why are we here in ths country if we don't want to learn the culture and the language?
Please support our advertisers:
Woody,
Can't agree more. I like your practical thinking. It's not many "gweilow" think the way you do. Especially,when the $$$ come from the company. Same here, my husband company will pay for our children educ but we chosed to have or daugther in Kiangsu Chekiang (KCS)local section.To be frank, alot of adaptation to do at first as she was formerly from AIS when we were in other country lastyear. With the opportunity to learn chinese is here and I also wish that she grow up facing the realistic world that she is in KCS now. So, really it boil down to what you value and what you think is good for your children without having to sacrifice their happiness and what they like to learn at the sametime.
Kinggreen,
KCS website: http://www.kcs.edu.hk/
Please support our advertisers:
MayC
19 yrs ago
Woody, I second your opinion about the impact being in a prestigious school could do to our children's self esteem. Take my sister for example. She went to a local public school in Sydney. Then during her final two years of high school, mum transferred her to a selective school (one of three prestigious schools in Sydney). She was unhappy. From being one of the top in her class, she was below average. She also didn't have her friends (the ones she grew up with). After high school, she didn't keep in touch with her friends at the selective school. She went back to her friends at the local school.
To go to a prestigious school here, kids do have to travel far..... would it be true to say that the time spent travelling could be spent doing something more productive like learning a new skill or taking a quick nap or just playing "silly"?
I think whichever path we take, there's always going to be good and bad. The most important thing is to choose a path that suits you.
Regarding creativity, I think everyone's got their own views on it. A student could go into class and learn that if you stick a paper underneath a glass which is full of water, it'll stick and the water won't come out. The same student could apply his/her own creativity by saying to himself, "What if the glass is half-full? Or just one inch from being full?" This form of creativity isn't any different to a boy in a playground wondering about what happens if he throws the ball at a slightly different angle. We as parents would have labelled the science "hardwork" and the latter "play"... but to the children, both are learning and both are fun.
Just my thoughts.. I could be wrong.
Please support our advertisers:
MC
19 yrs ago
Unfortunately it is very hard and at times impossible to strike a good balance. HK and for that matter Chinese education system do lack creativity (difficult to pinpoint). Just look at the workforce. Of course, this is a generalization as there are exceptions. Take a look at shops, banks and even corporates, their policies, rules and how people just follow them without given them any thought. Here is a good example (Citibank!!)
I called the credit card service and asked them to LOWER the credit limit on my card. I was told that if I want to increase it again I would have to provide supporting document... Does this make sense??? I WAS THE ONE MAKING THE REQUEST TO LOW IT!!
Called PCCW the other day as my old credit card no longer works and I wanted to give them a new one. The guy insisted on knowing my old number even thought it didn't work anymore and )PCCW couldn't get paid) otherwise he cannot put the new card info. in... Stupid to a point...
Please support our advertisers:
hmmm...maybe it's not so much "creativity" that is lacking in the Chinese system - but more critical thinking skills...which is a common criticism of more rote learning and memorization based educational systems. However, in a recent survey, MANY top US corporations complained that their new hires (from colleges/universities) were also LACKING critical thinking skills...not to mention the new hires were lazy and expected easy promotions while on the job.
Please support our advertisers:
MC
19 yrs ago
hkchoichoi, well put, yes, critical thinking is definitely lacking.. People here generally do ok if they are told exactly what to do. They lack the skills of thinking ahead. Here is a good example: I told the person who works for me to find out what % of our products are supplied to a certain industry.. He came back and told me that it was 30%. I then asked him what the rest of the 70% is. He said:"I don't know. Didn't ask." I then told him: "if the answer was 80%, then the rest doesn't matter, but when it is only 30% don't you think you should find out what the rest of the 70% is?" Mind you this person is highly educated..
Please support our advertisers:
sad ... education is failing everywhere. It's not just primary schools anymore that parents have to stress about - it's all the way past college - to see if anyone learns ANYTHING anymore. At least your staff member can learn from this experience (hopefully) and begin developing some of those crucial critical thinking skills...
Please support our advertisers:
Woody and hkchoichoi, thanks for your posts
MC, I am just glad that I don't work for you...would have been made redundant long time ago I suppose
Could someone share where the "good" local/public schools are? I was told around the Kowloon Tong area. Is admission based strictly on place of residence?
Please support our advertisers:
MayC
19 yrs ago
Tsuiwah, are you looking for kindies, primary or secondary schools? I've heard that Kowloon Tong is popular for good schools but all areas should have Band 1 & 2 schools too. I think you have a greater chance of getting in if you live in the area.
If you go to Eugene Club, they have a book which lists all primary schools around Hong Kong. The book is in Chinese but all you need to do is look at the description where they say: Band 1: 50% Band 2: 20% for example, and you can tell whether it is a good school or not. It'll have a contact number and you could just call to find out what the name of the school is and where it's located.
I'm looking at kindies and it's a harder process because the book they've got has a section naming the primary schools the students go to and I'm trying to match those against the bandings in the primary school book. Not easy when I can't read chinese characters.
Regarding "critical thinking", I think you do get people who lack that, especially new graduates entering the workforce... but from my experience, it's definitely not just Hong Kong.... I had graduates working for me in Sydney who asked silly questions too. I asked my manager some silly questions too when I first started working but I learnt from them.
I worked with senior auditors in HK (during my auditing days) and they were intelligent and definitely not lacking in "critical thinking". In fact, I was impressed with their knowledge.
I think the best thing for me is to really find a school that teaches our kids to love learning... not see it as a chore (pressured learning) or too much fun that they lack the motivation or discipline to learn more challenging stuff.
It's sad in a way that we have to decide things like this for our kids at such an early age... my sister's baby who is 2 months older than mine won't be in kindie until she's 5.
Please support our advertisers:
ShazP
19 yrs ago
Woody,
Thanks for the info!
Please support our advertisers:
pretty sure you don't have to be fluent in chinese to go to uni here. a friend went to uni here last year and doesn't speak cantonese, he is from australia (native english speaker) and he acutally had to sit an IELTS test before they would admit him to uni here!
Please support our advertisers:
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail